• 29-lafayette.jpg

    Many on the East Coast feel this is a trap game for the Leopards since their next game is with the New Jersey Institute of Technology.

    Famous Alums


  • Who starts at the wing and who starts at Center?

  • @wrwlumpy

    “Trap game” very funny!

  • @wrwlumpy - Really appreciate these lead in posts in advance of game day. Good start to the discussion.

    I say Self sticks with Greene until UNLV game, and then Oubre starts at the three.

    As for the other post spot, who knows what he’ll do. I think he should start Cliff and just be done with it, but he’s being more conservative with it. Cliff and Ellis are our best post combo. But oddly, I don’t mind Lucas starting. It just seems silly to have a starter that doesn’t even play rotation level minutes most of the time.

  • Banned

    I kind of hope HCBS goes with the hot hand when picking starters. I think this would keep the intensity at a level this team needs to win.

  • @HighEliteMajor I thought Greene earned last game’s start, changed my mind for sat. As easily as Greene can go off scoring, it appears he can just as easily, lose his man, get stripped of the ball, step out of bounds, etc. I can see, after watching Utah game, why he’s been on the bench. I’m a huge BG fan too. He’s automatic at the line, when he’s hot he doesn’t miss. I’m going w/oubre this week. Not sure about match ups, but I’d like to see Cliff start. Jmo.

  • @wrwlumpy

    Damn Lump, you have created a flipping art form.

    Question: Who endowed Lafayette Colllege?

    I don’t know.

    But Hank being a grad makes me want to know. 🙂

  • @HighEliteMajor

    “It just seems silly to have a starter that doesn’t even play rotation level minutes most of the time.”

    I hear what you are saying… but I agree with Self on this one. The idea is to start the game with Cliff on the bench so he can mentally get into the game before he engages the physical side. It’s all about trying to reduce his propensity to foul. No one knows more about this than Self because he experiences their practice sessions, and I guess Cliff has severe fouling issues.

    For that reason, I like starting Lucas, and then we see how he does and when he fouls or has a mistake he gets a quick pull. It is a great way to quickly assess the post matchups. Sometimes Landen gets out of the gates well, other times, not well.

    I know one thing… Landen needs to learn how to set a high ball screen. I’m sick of him being whistled for the offensive foul. It’s a loss of possession, and this team needs every possession possible in order to produce a win.

  • I am comfortable with Lucas starting. He has done a better than decent job on the opening jump, and he covers for Cliff’s probable early fouls. Am really puzzled, however, at Mickelson’s delayed progress. He sets a frosh block record at Arkansas, then 3 years later can’t manage to stay on a Jayhawk court for two minutes? What gives?

  • @REHawk At Arkansas he wasn’t coached by Bill Self and surrounded by a bunch of young studs.

  • @nuleafjhawk great answer!

  • @Crimsonorblue22 You too!!

  • @REHawk I really hate Lucas starting. My #1 reason is I want Cliff to get a ton of minutes. I know that he may be foul prone but the only way he is going to be the monster we know he can be is if he is on the floor. Cliff and Perry should start with Jamari being the first big off the bench. Lucas should then be after Jamari. He is big and tall and plays hard but there is a big drop off in talent. Get Cliff in the starting lineup now. (Sorry, I know I have posted this after every game all year).

  • @drgnslayr

    I think fouls is definitely a concern, but the other might be stamina. I am sure Andrea is working big time with him, but you can still see the baby fat that will eventually turn into solid muscle. It is a different game than HS where he could manhandle most opposing players but now is the other way around, and just trying o maintain position takes a huge amount of effort and energy. Coach Self might be just trying to pick the times where he can be most effective before he wears out.

  • @JayHawkFanToo watched the Bill Self talk show and he talked a lot about big guys and angles and Cliff letting the defense get up in him and working from that position. Says a lot about some high school bb programs.

  • @joeloveshawks This might sound nit-picky, but, as I recall, Lucas has won all opening jumps but for the Utah contest vs, 7’ Austrian. I think that Cliff would have lost 2/3 of those jumps. Too short, not enough time yet to Hudyize his vertical.

  • @Crimsonorblue22

    Spot on. As I said before, a lot of HS players come to college with a lot of potential but with very little basketball IQ; in many case they not only do not know how to play team basketball but have really bad habits learned on the playgrounds, that coaches have to correct before they can school them in the proper way to play the sport.

  • @REHawk Good point but I don’t think winning the opening tip should trump having a better player in the lineup.

  • @JayHawkFanToo “Coach Self might be just trying to pick the times where he can be most effective…” We saw this last year, early on, with Joel…and with TRob and Withey. Self has been patient and cautious in gradually exposing his big kids to the buzzards.

  • Maybe it’s not a trap game for for Leopards, but let’s just hope they don’t put up the same kind of fight that Easton PA native Larry Holmes (a/k/a “The Easton Assassin”) put up against Muhammad Ali…

  • @REHawk

    Trying figure out why Self is meticulously handling the minutes of a player early in his career is sometimes not easy to do, but Self has a pretty good record bringing these guys a long in the way that he does.

    There is a body of psychology that argues that the best way to introduce persons to tasks is to orchestrate the introduction so that there are only positive experiences; that negative experiences early in a learning curve sharply impede the progress of a person. The person begins to have to master not only the new task, but the negative experiences–two things instead of one. Even if they are confident, resilient types and don’t lose their confidences, their rate of learning the desired task is slowed, because they are splitting their attentions between two tasks and often doing neither well, as a result.

    The approach has even been extended with some success to filming them in their practice efforts, cutting out all of the footage of failures, showing them only their successes, and showing the successes a few times with praise. It is amazing the positive results it gives.

    Coaches have long done a version of this when they show a player tapes of other players, or teams doing things successfully the way the coach wants them to.

    But coaches have also tended to use tape of performance to focus on the short comings of players and say, "this is what you need to get better at.

    I am starting to believe that the way to teach these OADs and other freshman, who face such steep learning curves entering D1, is to do as follows:

    1. Identify what they need to get better at.

    2. Tape them repeating the task 10-20 times, or as many times as one needs to wind up with five properly executed efforts.

    3. Edit out all the failed efforts.

    4. Combine the five successful efforts and show it to them repeatedly praising them and pointing out the various aspects of how they are doing it right.

    Where I am headed here is that these guys are just on campus too short of a time to deal with what they do wrong in a negative way. The learning is just too slow.

    I have a feeling that if Cliff and Oubre had been worked with this way from the moment they hit Lawrence they might not be complete players, or anything, but most of their major deficiencies would already be improved to adequate.

    From adequate to good is another step up in proficiency. That next step might take some good old fashioned negative criticism and ass chewing. But I think this positive approach focusing on their own intermittent successful attempts of getting it right might get these super players street legal for D1 sooner.

  • @drgnslayr Play that changed my view on Landen: he gets the ball in perfect position on the block, he stops, sets himself, and then goes up, and gets stuffed against Utah. He is just too slow - that was a very slow white guy in the middle, and Landen made him look fast.

  • Only one more blackout after this - Kent State. Those who don’t have Direct TV, like I do, can watch the game on ESPN 3 on the computer. For some reason ESPN does not like competition.

  • @wrwlumpy

    No such luck, the game is blacked out on ESPN3 for the entire state of Kansas and the KC metro area. If you live in the KC Metro area and don’t have TWC or Comcast you are literally…SOL.

  • @drgnslayr - The foul thing is a legit concern for Cliff … Lucas fouls at .193 per minute, Oubre .152, and then Cliff at .107. Those are the top three. So protecting Cliff a bit is wise. He is still isn’t a crazy fouler, though. Respectable, certainly considering some of Self’s earlier comments about practice.

    Here’s the others - Greene .099, Graham .098, Traylor .093, Selden .079, Ellis .077, Svi .049, and Mason .044.

    I guess the two at he bottom stood out to me. Svi, as a 17 year old, is one of the best at not committing fouls. Mason is the best, and that’s big because we need him in the game.

    I would like to see Cliff get his feet wet as a starter though. Lafayette might be a good proving ground.

  • Lumpy, loving the pics of each campus.

    As for the game, tryouts are on for the Big12 season. Who’s going to step up beside Mason, Perry, Selden and Jamari? Seems like there’s some openings up for grabs to become the usual starter.

  • @JayHawkFanToo

    I’m certain you are right about the stamina.

    In my late 20s I had to adjust from playing on tournament teams to playing at the 2nd level of pro euro ball (meaning… my pay was primarily travel expense, food and beer). The level of this ball would be similar to division 2 college ball.

    It took me at least 2 months to get up to speed with the existing players. I thought I was going to die from the speed of the game. I was always considered in great shape playing on tournament teams that traveled through the Midwest. That level of ball was similar to HS.

    I can’t really imagine what D1 is like, except I feel sure the rigors must be absolutely brutal. Sure looks that way from watching games. Having all the crowd noise and pressure can only amplify the stress and pressure.


    "Tape them repeating the task 10-20 times, or as many times as one needs to wind up with five properly executed efforts.

    Edit out all the failed efforts.

    Combine the five successful efforts and show it to them repeatedly praising them and pointing out the various aspects of how they are doing it right."

    I noticed KU got a new video coordinator. That job should be huge. The right video guy can make a huge impact on player/team development. I hope KU chose carefully.

  • @wissoxfan83

    What if Devonte is done for the season?

    What if Selden’s knee never restores, worse, gets sore?

    What if Evan twists an ankle?

    What if Svi has something wrong that isn’t going away?

    What if Jam Tray really can’t dribble?

    What if this is all a father-son myth playing out?

    What if this winds into Tyler having to save his father?

    Life is so amazing.

    “When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.”

    Lao Tzu

  • @jaybate-1.0

    What if we don’t win an 11th straight league crown?

  • @HighEliteMajor I would say Greene also. At some point, Oubre will probably earn it. Interesting that you said the UNLV game. I assume you believe that Self wants to have the starters settled when the conference games start? It is weird that Lucas has started and then not played again. Unusual. I have to believe that Self will start Cliff soon…maybe Saturday. Whenever it happens, if he picks up 2 fairly quick fouls in a game, it will be interesting to see what happens the next game.

  • @wissoxfan83

    One time I recall KU faltering seriously, because of injuries and so on. It was 1988. 🙂

  • @jaybate-1.0

    '88 I seem to remember that year. A month before I walked down the hill in cap and gown, (as a matter of fact with someone that was 14 inches taller than me 5 people behind me in line) I was also in the same football stadium celebrating a huge win!

  • @jaybate-1.0 “the best way to introduce persons to tasks is to orchestrate the introduction so that there are only positive experiences”

    Sometimes your posts are gold mines: we have to dig and process to get the precious metal. This time I think it’s pure, 24-karat gold.

    You have revealed Cal’s secret! Everything from recruiting to practice to Xs and Os is set up to maximize immediate positive reinforcement. Come to UK where success is not only expected but assumed and proclaimed. Be part of a team that is anointed champion six months before April. Learn offensive and defensive schemes that you can “get” quickly and that make you look good fast. Dominate media fawning and mock drafts.

    Don’t go to KU where they concentrate on what’s missing or try desperately to hold on to their streaks (NCAA appearances and conference championships). All you can do is lose what others won. Come to UK where nobody cares about losing in the first round of the NIT (we’re still champs) or having a bad regular season (our deep NCAA run was all the more noteworthy). Go for highlights, not consistency: we’ll edit out the bad stuff!

    Go to UK where OADs are worshipped, not KU where they are disdained. Be embraced, not grumpily tolerated.

  • @wissoxfan83 BLASHPHEMY!

  • @jaybate-1.0 But Hank being a grad makes me want to know. The New World Order, perhaps?

  • Here’s all that needs to be said - direct from Leopards website:

    No. 10 Kansas Hosts Men’s Hoops on Saturday ##Lafayette looking for its first win over a ranked opponent since 1978.

    LAST TIME OUT Lafayette used contributions from up and down the bench to put away Susquehanna on Tuesday evening inside Kirby Sports Center by a final score of 91-66. The win moves the Leopards to 7-2 on the season, their best start since going 8-1 to start the 2003-04 campaign.

    Senior Dan Trist and junior Bryce Scott led the offense with 16 points apiece, while senior captain Seth Hinrichs added 14 points and classmate Joey Ptasinski chipped in with 10 to go along with four assists and three steals. Sophomore Nick Lindner facilitated the offense to the tune of nine assists and just one turnover, and freshman Matt Klinewski was just one point shy of a double-double, pairing his nine points with 11 rebounds.

    All 15 players on the Lafayette roster saw playing time in the game as the Maroon and White went 31-for-68 from the floor (45.6%) and 11-for-28 from beyond the arc (39.3%). The Leopards won the rebounding battle for just the third time this season, 53-32. The 50-plus board performance is just the second time the Maroon and White have eclipsed the 50-rebound plateau in a game in the last 10 seasons, doing so last on Dec. 20, 2005 when they ripped down 52 against Dickinson.

    SCOUTING THE JAYHAWKS Kansas, looking to improve upon a 25-10 record a season ago and a trip to the NCAA Tournament Round of 32, is off to yet another successful season, starting the year at 8-1 and currently ranked 10th in the latest AP Poll. The Jawhawks’ only loss of the year came in the Champions Classic against No. 1 Kentucky on Nov. 18, but they have reeled off seven straight wins since that game including a victory over No. 13 Utah in their last contest on Dec. 13, 63-60. Kansas is led by a pair of double-figure scorers in Perry Ellis (14.3 ppg) and Frank Mason III (10.6 ppg). Ellis also paces the Hawks on the glass with 7.0 boards per game. Kansas, an excellent free-throw shooting team at 74.7 percent, uses defense and rebounding to its advantage, holding opponents to 63.2 points per game and winning the battle on the glass with a +6.0 rebounding margin.

    LAFAYETTE VS. BIG 12 OPPONENTS Kansas is the second of a pair of Big 12 opponents the Leopards face this season after falling at West Virginia in their second game of the season, 83-56, on Nov. 16. All-time, Lafayette is 1-5 against Big 12 opponents, with its lone win coming against the Mountaineers on Jan. 23, 1973, a 61-60 victory in Easton. The Maroon and White have also matched up with Baylor and Kansas State in their history.

  • @RockChalkinTexas

    “Lafayette looking for its first win over a ranked opponent since 1978.”

    Wow… a chip that has been building since 1978! I wonder if there is some dust on that chip?

  • Susquehanna is a division III squad. This game is all about the extended practice during finals. It might be one of the most telling games of the year in regards to who will play going into Conference. Who will get the minutes will be interesting. More plays have been added, more individual work has taken place. If coach yells, he cares, if he is not yelling at you, you won’t be getting the minutes… It is that time of year. Kentucky has put a bulls eye on us and we, as always, will get everyone’s best shot.

  • And Cliff starts – of course, Cliff starting makes perfect sense. If he gets all fouled up, this might be the game for it. The more we play our best players, the better.

    We’ll see if Greene can keep the job. I doubt it. Oubre is closing quickly.

    Self said today: “We’ll probably be more of a shoot-off-the-catch team,” Self said, “than we will be a penetrate-and-pitch type team.”

    In Self-speak, I have no idea what that really means.

    Self also said:

    “I said all along it would probably take some time with different individuals, and certainly, the light’s starting to come on for him,” Self said of Oubre. “And when it comes on, it’s going to stay on. He’s going to do great.”

    In @Jesse-Newell’s article a, Self said Evan Manning will be reserved in an “emergency” type role in case a situation dictates that the Jayhawks need another guard. Sounds like that eliminates Manning – which is different than what was reported of Self’s comments earlier. “Emergency” denotes foul trouble or injury.

    He also mentioned Hunter Mickelson … which is probably the first time his name has come out of Self’s lips for a month.

    Here’s the link - link text

  • I would have thought that Oubre may start as well but I have no problem with Self still easing him in to the lineup. Really sounds like Kelly has settled and is starting to really understand the game Self wants from him. That’s a scary thought. We could be seeing a huge bump in his production going forward.

    Cliff should have a good time against the white boys of Lafayette tomm. It would be nice to see some improved offense out of him going into Conference Play. We need to find ways to set him up for easy plays. Hopefully this week of practice has led to the start more than Lucas playing himself out of the starting lineup. Landon clearly needs some confidence.

  • @BeddieKU23 I think the only reason Oubre didn’t start is because Greene played so well against G-Town, and he didn’t play his way out of the lineup against Utah. But, it’s simply a question of when- not if Oubre ends up in the starting lineup.

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