Victory Over GU: The Power Of Three And Return Of The Quick Hook

  • A hard fought win vs. a physical team. Refs certainly permitted a rough game. I like how we responded. Some quick observations:

    1. The Power of Three: It is amazing what some three point shooting. I still think we need to shoot more. Greene had his best night as a Jayhawk. This is what a hot shooter can do for a team. Outside in. Repeat. Outside in.

    2. Return of the Quick Hook: Kinder, gentler Bill Self? Uh, no. Svi returned to the game, turnover, done. Mickelson in for an Anrio Adams’ moment, then done. It has returned.

    3. Oubre Minutes: A bigger look. Lots of good stuff. Has a natural ability to get to the hoop. Seems tentative at times, but a work in progress.

    4. No Svi: Welcome to KU basketball. Perhaps getting a tough of a lesson this evening. Unsure why Self viewed him as a bad option tonight. But Greene certainly was the better choice, given the performance. Will be interested to see if he starts Saturday.

    5. Mason: Made some bad errors. But his defense on Smith-Rivera changed the game. Very subtle, but he contested shots, shut off the lane, against a pretty darn good guard. Wish he would have passed to Greene after the steal with 30 seconds. Greene automatic at the line.

    6. Selden: Just can’t seem to finish at the hoop. His drives still aren’t productive. Not bouncy enough for the one handed slam.

    7. Box Out: Flaw in Cliff’s game … box out. Multiple times where he failed to put a body on his man on boards. Seemed really obvious.

    8. Ellis vs. Big Guys: It is a struggle. His tool box of moves is terrific vs. guys his height or lower. It is what it is. But he did enough tonight. And actually, he worked very hard on defense. I do see improvement. Also hit the boards consistently tonight.

    9. Mickelson Purgatory: One would have thought that Mickelson might have gotten a shot tonight, but his lack of PT demonstrates that he is completely and undoubtedly out of the mix. He’ll be gone after this season, assuming he graduates and gets the Tarik Black, post grad transfer.

    10. Graham Developing: Graham, to me, is everything that he was advertised to be. He handles the ball well. Plays decent defense. Good shooter. In his eighth game, we should all be very comfortable with our point guards this season.

    This game was very similar to the Colorado dogfight we lost. Different year, different team. Tougher team. Better team.

  • Banned

    @HighEliteMajor ------You said,

    “.Oubre Minutes: A bigger look. Lots of good stuff. Has a natural ability to get to the hoop. Seems tentative at times, but a work in progress.”

    I can’t believe it??? YOU Said something nice about Oubre. 😎

    Love the points. Keep it up HEM.

  • @HighEliteMajor In defense of Cliff, he tried to put a body on Smith. It was hard to see since he was like a fly on Smith’s back. I’m not sure 2 Cliff’s could’ve done much with Smith. Everything else spot on. Seemed to me on several occasions on drives to the hoop, the Hawks failed to put the hoop between the ball and the trailing defender allowing for a few blocks. Usually they’re pretty good at that.

  • @HighEliteMajor Good analysis. Frank wasn’t close to being 100%. Not trying to make excuses for him, but he made some nice plays to somewhat make up for his Tyshawn moments. Epiphany game for Brannen, imo. You can’t teach that kind of confidence - we were absolutely brutalized ALL game by some of the worst uncalled fouls I have ever seen in a basketball game, and Greene absolutely tore them a new one. Shoved it in their face and made them like it. We need a tough SOB that doesn’t take crap, and I think he’s our man. I think we have a tough team, folks. Agree that Devonte played really well, and was glad to see Kelly finally get into the flow. My apologies to Jaybate - I had promised a 7 or 8 point win, and that 3 point bank shot miracle cut our win margin down to 5. Dang it, I was hoping I would hit it on the nose, my friend.

  • Good Analysis, HEM. I see a lot of improvement in Perry Ellis. Very aggressive on both the offensive and defensive ends of the floor. He will have his challenges against the bigger guys, but his approach is a lot different from last year (even from the Kentucky game).

    Selden just leaves me wanting more. I’ve had a man-crush on him since I first watched his mix-tape. But it just hasn’t translated to the college game. Still hopeful that I’ll get to see that beast before he takes off the KU uniform.

    The TEAM continues to emerge!

    Bring on the Utes!


    I agree. The refereeing was pretty bad; I can’t believe they called a foul on Lucas (his 5th) when it should have been a flagrant on Smith. They could not even get the ball over the backboard call right even after looking at the replay that clearly showed it went out off the GU player and they called a jump ball instead.

    Oh well, all is well that ends well…

  • We were roughed up pretty good inside at times. Perry had a tough time inside. Again…bigger guys give him a problem. 3 pt shooting saved us. Well, and FTs too. We made 10 2 pointers and 10 3 pointers. Was that the KU Jayhawks? Great win on the road.

  • @JayHawkFanToo I was beside myself over that foul. That was the epitome of the way the calls went most the night.

  • @Hawk8086

    After the last two games, teams will have to think twice about sending KU to the FT line at the end of the game. A nice change from previous years.


    Hopefully their hotel has nice spa where they can soak their bruised bodies; although I will guess they are flying back today.

  • @JayHawkFanToo GTown did more holding than the Chiefs. Way too much smashmouth for hoops. Games rough as this can go either way based on poor officiating & getting through without injuries is always a huge plus. For the most part I liked our defensive intensity. Is more of what we’re accustomed to under Self. We always taught our kids to play defense just as Landon played Smith-with your arms & legs both over the topside of the opponent. Clearly when Smith grabbed Lucas’ arm & threw it back over his own, was the most obvious call to make. Maybe his crew of refs was auditioning for a gig on a UFC match cause they were not very skilled at the task they performed tonight.

  • @globaljaybird

    Coach Self’s teams are known for playing intense, tough defense. Last year was an exception but it is nice to see the old intensity and tenacity back.

  • @JayHawkFanToo BTW, Utah is playing BYU on ESPNU. I can’t say I’m impressed by the Utes.

  • Plenty of talent on this year’s team. If this group is given the green light to shoot from deep, they can be scary. Greene can knock down shots. Svi will get it going again. Seedless is a threat from deep, as are Mason and Graham. I love the confidence of this team. Turn them loose Coach Self and let’s see what they have!

  • Anywhere to watch this on replay? Only caught a few minutes and then had to exit.

  • PF Ivan Rabb trims his list to 5 team; KU is still in the run.


  • @jaybate-1.0 I emailed fox sports asking where the replay is available. Not holding my breath. But I do try to remind people other than ESPN when they are behind the technological curve.


    Not to worry about predicting a 7-8 point win and the spread being +5. It happens to the best of them.

    But I have to say I’m feeling pretty sanguine about my prediction.

    Remember how I predicted KU -10 and then revised it shortly after to KU +5 if KU shot well, and KU -5 if KU shot poorly?

    I think KU shot it pretty well with Greene going 5-5 from trey, don’t you?

    Dang its sweet! 🙂

    Rock Chalk!!!

  • @approxinfinity

    Way to go! You are awesome!

  • @jaybate-1.0

    Tomorrow morning at 10:30 eastern it is being replayed on Fox Sports here in the DC area. Maybe elsewhere as well? Maybe?

  • @HighEliteMajor

    Just wanted to say you are now the master of the concise post game quick analysis. My litmus test for this sort of writing is can I read and drive on the freeway without endangering myself or others? I try never to do this, because I try always to be watching the game, but tonight I got sideways at the last second and could not watch. Thought the game was tomorrow and had a critical birthday party for a very important person in my life that had to stay at the top of the what am I most obligated to do cue. After the birthday I got a bit of tough news about someone else that was making me drive home questioning the meaning of life and the worth of continuing to live it when certain things afflict certain of those that are among the most virtuous that one knows and respects and prizes. Just wanted you to know that you commitment to excellence in basketball posting noticeably illuminated and shortened one of my funks. Thank you. See? What we do here can make a difference every now and then.

  • @Kong

    Thx sooooo very much.

  • @Kong Did you go to the game?

  • @jaybate-1.0 Which freeway were you driving on?

  • @VailHawk

    No fair. 🙂

  • @VailHawk

    West bound. 😉

  • The pundits after the game made it feel as if Georgetown won. Then the anchor asked the two pundits if KU wins the Big 12. “No, KU finishes 3rd behind Texas and Oklahoma.” It was good to listen to Bill Rafferty again.

    Frank brought back memories of Sherron the way he drove to end the first half. SMITH IS A BIG MAN.

  • image.jpg

  • Another underwhelming performance. Up to this point KU, has put together one good half of basketball. We continue to see the ‘bash your head against the wall’ mentality in regards to our offensive scheme. But we all know who Self is and what he’s going to do. The frustrating thing is, a night like that from Greene, mixed in with Svi getting hot…look out! It’s games like these that make explaining the Conner Frankamp transfer easy.

    Way too many turnovers again. This team has got to value possessions more than it does. Some bad shots early in the shot clock by young guys. I love Frank Mason, but his TT impression is just impeccable…and not the good kind. It looked like Wayne caught the same bug in the second half of just running at the hoop and hoping to get bailed out. I don’t like that there have been a few times this year where we have gone looooong stretches without a field goal this year. It’s scary to think of that kind of stuff come tournament time.

    It was really nice to KO get in there and do some nice things. Gotta love that left handed scoop in the first half. Played good defense as well. Frank also had a good night defensively. And oh Josh Smith. Remember when he was down to us and Georgetown? Got me to thinking, I’d love to get a degree from Georgetown. If I didn’t think I could play in the NBA I would’ve chose GU too. But I think he’ll be in the league. But I digress. Jamari has been unbearable this year, but Hunter did not make much of a case for more PT in this one, my god. Also, I’m with @KUSTEVE and a few others on the officiating. Some of it was just awful.

    Lastly, I’m still very concerned about this team. We’re young still. Real young. But we’re capable. It’s just a matter of this team being allowed to play to its strengths. Will Self allow it? Or will we go the same way we did last year with the ‘bash your head against a brick wall’ approach? If we play UK again, or UT right now, I’m sorry, but I think we get beat down. Concerned about us moving forward. BUT, it’s not all doom and gloom. Because I think this team has been mediocre up to this point. Average at best. And yet, we’re still 7-1 and just picked up a huge road win :). Now, let’s go beat up on Utah, and let WSU fans eat their hearts out. PS, sorry for the disjointed post. I’ve been writing a book for graduate school, and my good writing is spent at this point.

  • @HighEliteMajor

    Another solid “coach’s” post!

    1. We’ve all been waiting for a night like this from Greene. Finally! What a blast, to watch him go off! He’s a guy that needs to stay confident. He has height and he has elevation on his jumper. He doesn’t really need so much space to get his shot off. He is a weapon we need to use this year, and he needs to stay toasty from 3.

    2. I don’t always agree on the quick hook. But I think Self played this game just right. This was a physical game, a game for men. Svi still has a boy’s game. Mickelson was held accountable for missing his assignment. Adults are held accountable. This was a game for men.

    3. Oubre is the real deal. People were too quick to slam him. He will become a huge factor after Christmas, After he gets coached up when the kids are on break and are allowed more practice. He will be a key factor for us defending our B12 streak. We still haven’t seen nothing of what he is capable of. Nothing.

    4. “Unsure why Self viewed him as a bad option tonight.”

    Self knew this would be a physical game. It always is with Georgetown, and playing at Georgetown meant soft officiating in some areas. Svi doesn’t have the strength to play physical ball… yet. This game should be motivation for Svi to develop a good relationship with Hudy.

    1. Mason made some bad errors… but he also played a good game. Offered some penetration, including sometimes scoring off of it, and even hit at least 1 three when we really needed it. He’s the PG you want in games like this… muscle ball.

    2. Selden seems to have some confidence issues. When he gets on a roll, he can put up big numbers. When he bricks a few shots or has one or two bad drives, he lets it effect the rest of his game. A one-handed stuff off the drive, against a team like Georgetown, was ill-advised, and a bit too much showboat. He should have either just tried to finish the drive with a score, probably off the glass, or if he wanted to finish strong he needed a two-handed slam… something where he could maintain some handle on the ball while getting fouled. He made some bad TOs in the game, too. I think he is feeling the pressure that he has to lead this team, and he has to do that by making plays. Problem is, he is forcing those plays. He should think of leadership in a different way. Sometimes even team leaders aren’t hitting shots. Team leaders do what they have to do to give the team a better chance to win. Wayne didn’t do that. He forced shots and passes, making it tougher for us to win. He needs a bit more mental growth in his game.

    3. Cliff is trying not to foul. He is feeling out the boundaries on how much body he can put on someone. Where he is failing most is with position. He needs to use his feet more. Like you said… boxing out, is definitely one of those areas. I would have thought Self would try to front Smith. Make them throw the ball over the defense. Smith wasn’t fronted so he was easy to pass in to. Then he’d just start moving his feet backwards, closer to the goal, and since it didn’t look like he was muscling anyone, it was allowed, even though he was using his weight to gain territory towards the goal. Once he has it in the low post, he’s impossible to stop. I liked how Lucas fronted him on his 5th foul. That was bull to call him on that. Smith used his hands the entire game to gain position, including on Lucas’ 5th foul, and he gets away with it. Watch the tape.

    Back to Cliff. He is being coached into not fouling. And that is important. But he also needs to be effective, and if he can’t be effective, he isn’t extremely valuable in the game. I think it made a difference that Bam-Bam was not available. He wouldn’t have made a big impact, but he would be another body with 5 fouls available.

    1. I give Perry a lot of credit in this game. This will be our most-physical game all year, and Perry didn’t back down! He isn’t strong enough to exactly go toe-to-toe, but he didn’t back down, even after getting his shot smoked several times. I really give him credit towards the end, when he drove the baseline on a hard low post shot and made it. He didn’t give up. We need to see more of this Perry!

    2. Mickelson missed a switch and gave up an uncontested stuff. It only takes a few of those and KU’s momentum may have been lost for the rest of the game. He should have been pulled. I expect the guy to have game rust, but he really blew it.

    3. Graham is going to give us lots of great highlights in his career. The great thing is we will have him for 4 years! He looks like a guy who tries hard to stay confident. That is a psychological feature you want from a guard.

    This is the type of performance we’ve all come to appreciate from Self, and from mostly non-OAD athletes. We got to experience some developmental improvements in a short time. Some of it individual, some of it team. This is what turns on a big part of the educated Jayhawk fan base!

    I’ve been posting about controlling tempo recently. We came out early and forced TOs with nice pressure defense. Later, we sort of backed off the high pressure and it let the Hoyas back in the game. On one hand I thought that to be a tactical error, on the other hand I see it as Self using this game as a teaching lesson. He wanted a good grind game, and he got it. He wanted us to close well, and we did. But if this was a FF game, I think Self would have played for the jugular and we would have knocked these guys out early with high pressure they never could have overcome and got on track.

    Except for missing a low post enforcer, this team has the chance to be the best defensive team we’ve had since '08… and in '08 we didn’t have a low post enforcer either. Closest thing was Sasha. By the end of the year, hopefully Cliff will be more capable to play aggressive without fouling so much. And if that is the case, he’ll offer us better low post defense.

  • @jaybate-1.0 Ohhhh… you stole my thunder…lol. I missed that…good call, then…

  • Talk about winning in the face of adversity baby! Refs were crooked beyond belief. And how about the broadcast announcer? Not the funny one with the cool voice but the play by play… Big gtown fan or big KU hater? Doesn’t matter because I thought the other guy did a great job commenting on fouls off steal we had that weren’t called. One thing these guys can do tht we couldn’t do that well is finish and close out a game in these situations. Brannens confidence is inspiring. He still has just as much fire in him and it’s not going anywhere. Bah, I’ve got to go to work… I could comment all day on this one. I love it. Go Hawks!

  • @wrwlumpy Tastes differ, so this is certainly not a put down, but would you please tell me what you like about Bill Rafferty? Personally, I would rather listen to:

    1. nails on a chalkboard
    2. a violin played by a beginner
    3. Dick Vitale

    Is he a good analyst in your opinion? In what way? I can’t understand him half the time, so perhaps you can give me some insight to help the next time he covers a KU game.

  • @jaybate-1.0 v

    No fair or fare?

  • I had an interesting viewing experience which permitted me to watch the game in a different light. I had another game to attend and so I couldn’t watch until I got home on the DVR. While scrolling through the posts from my 3 or 4 friends on Facebook, I saw the heading “KU Wins!” Well shoot, it was better than reading “KU loses”.

    So the tension in my body left me immediately. I didn’t know the final score, so at least there was that drama left for me.

    My observations:

    Frank had me screaming at the DVR. Same typical Frank stuff, but he’s apparently the best we’ve got at running the show, even though sometimes he thinks he is the show.

    Selden did his usual hit a three at the beginning of the game trick, and then more or less disappeared offensively. Still waiting Wayne, still waiting.

    There’s no shame in beating Georgetown by just 5. I watched them nearly take down the Badgers a couple weeks back. I didn’t understand however all of the empty seats in their arena. Are their fans that apathetic about their team?

    I didn’t get nearly as worked up over Perry’s misses inside the lane as I would have if I didn’t know the result. As others point out, he seems to struggle against bigger players, although GTown’s bodies were big, but not necessarily taller. He’s got NBA small forward written all over him which means he has to gain a confident stroke from outside the lane.

    I also didn’t get nearly as worked up over the officials as I would have if I didn’t know the results, but it seemed as if we got jobbed quite a few times. Someone drew a charge late in the game clearly, but the ref called it a block. Not good.

    Brannen Greene, what can I say, except don’t foul three point shooters who get lucky and bank in their shot!

    I used to like Gus Johnson until I realized how much he favors one team over the other. Last night, GTown was his favored taste, and if I had to analyze the excited calls, they were overwhelmingly in Gtowns favor. Greene shot so many daggers that drew no audible response. @lincase I do like Bill Rafferty a lot. He brings color to a telecast with his calls. Didn’t hear it last night but I think he used to use the term onions a lot and I always liked it!


  • @VailHawk

    No. I refuse to pay the prices they were asking to sit in the upper deck of the Phone Booth (aka Verizon Center). I did that once for a hockey game and swore to never do that again. I don’t enjoy sports events when I am that far removed from the action.

    I am sure that those who went had a great time as I bet the KU contingent was rockin!

  • @lincase He is not an X and O man, but an ex coach that was too nice to be a coach, who calls the game like a buddy sitting next to you. Some of his phrases have become his trademark like MANTOMAN at the beginning of each game and always referring to Josh Smith as “Big Fella.” His relationship with Bill Self and his admiration of Self doesn’t hurt our brand. My favorite announcers are Bilas and Kellogg. I liked his line, “If you don’t play defense for Bill Self, you don’t play.”

  • @drgnslayr said:

    “Unsure why Self viewed him as a bad option tonight.” Self knew this would be a physical game. It always is with Georgetown, and playing at Georgetown meant soft officiating in some areas. Svi doesn’t have the strength to play physical ball… yet. This game should be motivation for Svi to develop a good relationship with Hudy.

    ------------------------------------for some reason the quote isn’t displaying properly-------------------------------------------------

    As someone who was positively gushing about Svi a week or so ago, I’m not actually that surprised he was out for much of the game. @drgnslayr makes an excellent point about the physicality of the game, but I’d also point out that against Florida, we witnessed the first real and crucial weakness Svi presents in his inability to defend the pick and roll game well. Some of that is due to contrasting styles in European and American basketball (Euro bigs are more pick and pop than pick and roll guys, typically), but some of it is due to Svi simply being 17 and having to guard quicker guards through tougher screens. He’ll be fine. I don’t think it was the turnovers that kept Svi out, as pretty much everyone was coughing up the ball all night. Self clearly wanted two pgs on the floor when possible to help, and given the way Georgetown was defending the paint and Green was shooting it, it just wasn’t Svi’s time to shine.

    None of that diminishes Svi, nor the praise I and others have had for him. Svi is still very much a work in progress, but it’s the combination of his potential on top of his already very strong fundamentals and high BBIQ that had me going to begin with. Nothing has changed in that regard. We’ll be seeing plenty of Svi this season.

  • @HighEliteMajor I’m not registered at but I wanted to let you know that I appreciate your comments regarding the t-shirts last night.

    Just like during the Ferguson riots, people and the media have been totally oblivious to the fact that the police were there because of a burglary committed by Michael Brown. If they hadn’t responded, they would have and should have been condemned. They were placed in a no-win situation by the thugs of that city.

    All this political correctness is nauseating

  • @Wigs2 Can you post a link I missed that…

  • Greene.jpg I just kept seeing this on… Its pretty funny and I bet Brannen catches poo for that comment!

  • If you check out our top 6 in scoring and look at their shooting %'s you will see our starting 5 coming together. HCBS sees it just like the rest of us and if we can keep those %'s up with increased minutes our teams offence will be the best in the nation!

  • @Wigs2 From the Hoya Captain, “We didn’t wear the shirt to say the cops were wrong, or the system was wrong,” Hoyas senior Josh Smith said. "We wore the shirts just to show our condolences to the family. No matter how you look at it, we don’t know who’s right or wrong, but they still lost somebody.

  • @Wigs2

    I don’t want to venture too far into this, but your statement about responding to a burglary is incorrect. Officer Darren Wilson stated in his testimony that he was not aware of the call regarding the gas station when he encounter Michael Brown. The information about the burglary is irrelevant to his actions that day because in his own words he didn’t even know about it at the time. Using that to justify his actions is improper because he did not have that knowledge at the time that he stopped Brown. He says he engaged him because he was walking in the street - not because he was a suspect in a crime.

  • For those of you too lazy to go look its

       FG%    FT%   3PT%

    Ellis .442 .764 .241 Needs to stop this lol

    Alexander . 462 .702 .000

    Mason .426 .862 .471

    Greene .484 .1000 .522

    Graham .450 .724 .500

    I believe Selden will stay on the floor and Oubre will work his way in the rotation but that 3pt % from the 3 listed is going to make us Deadly if Self can keep these guys driving and dishing!

  • Overall a pretty solid game last night on the road against a a pretty big team. The turnovers to me stand out the most, as 17 turnovers is a recipe for an early exit in March.

    A few days ago I made a post about what this team needs to do to play for the national, which is to play high pressure defense and make the same number of threes they made last night. In essence, just what HEM has been saying to do - play outside in.

    Like others have been discussing recently, the Texas game is going to be difficult. They actually played pretty well at Kentucky without their point guard. And now because of this, everyone thinks that because they played UK a lot better than we did that we will get destroyed by Texas as well. I could not disagree more. There can be a gigantic variance from game to game in every aspect. Just look at last year’s game against Texas. There was almost a 50 point variance between the home and away games. When we played UK a month ago, the guys did not look ready, they appeared a little intimidated, UK had a months worth of additional practices, and they had something to prove.

    The point that I am trying to make is that there is so much that the guys can learn from the UK game that I think will be improved upon enough that they we will end up winning the Big 12 and splitting the games with Texas. And maybe they will have another shot at Kentucky in the championship. If someone told me that that’s how it would play out, I would take it for sure.

  • We knew that Georgetown would be physical and they were. I was glad to see that KU didn’t fall into a passive pattern against a physical team.

    Oubre is making strides. He is just too talented not to eventually come out on top. It has taken longer than most of us (especially me) expected, but I had to realize last night that we are just 8 games into the season. He hasn’t found his shot yet, but if he finds his aggressiveness offensively things could pick up for him very, very quickly. And once they do, the fortunes of this KU team will rise with him.

  • @DinarHawk

    Agreed. The other thing that must be considered is that Texas has size that KU does not, so they match up with UK much better than we do. However, they cannot present as much size as UK does, so while they match up with UK better, we may be able to exploit them in different ways because they can’t run big guy after big guy at us like UK did. The KU-Texas games will be very interesting this year, as will the games with OU (they also present some interesting matchups inside).

Log in to reply