Rider Recap

  • Boy, it is nice to play Rider. Like a turkey heading into Thanksgiving day, KU got to fatten up a bit. The reality is that we can take very little from this game. But here are a few things that stood out to me:

    1. Oubre: Seriously, does anyone now think that the start vs. UK was merit related? Come on. We don’t want to admit, but Self started him for reasons other than merit. Big stage, ESPN, UK, top recruit, other recruits watching. Anyway, Oubre was completely lost on defense. Didn’t rotate twice. He kind of freezes. Didn’t fight for the ball. I didn’t notice it, but Newell said Self yelled at him a couple of times for being in the wrong spots on offense, too. Greene and Svi both look much better. Any good news there? Maybe we’ll have him for two or three years.

    2. Selden: I am puzzled by the lack of scoring. Don’t get me wrong. I love the 9 assists. But we need him to score. I’m beginning to rethink the Selden at PG thing, but keep having nightmares of the OSU 2-2-1 trap. Selden still look skiddish with the ball. But he delivered the ball. My mind is opening. Mason did not play well again. Graham was out with his shoulder. I just see the PG thing in flux again. Mason has left the door open.

    3. Greene: He was the star. His shooting, together with Svi’s effort, look like great tonic. Hitting threes will be how we beat Kentucky in March/April. I didn’t see Greene screw up on defense, but didn’t have the DVR to review. Very happy for the guy. I sure hope that Self sees that Svi and Greene (and hopefully Oubre later) are how we are going to get real scoring – Ellis will do his deal, but Ellis isn’t reliable. I’d rather hitch my wagon to the shooters.

    4. Lucas/Traylor: I loved Self’s switch up there. Great move. Traylor should not start … ever. Lucas is a better start, better compliment to Ellis. I think Self saw the Traylor’s ceiling Tuesday. The continued reference to the Traylor as being 6’6" should have been a foreshadowing of Self’s move to start Lucas. I can now see Traylor slipping to the 4th big. Lucas, and his height, are a better fit. I have a tough time gauging Lucas’ defense right now, though.

    5. Svi: Self tipped his hand with this start. Svi is his favorite. And that seems squarely based on merit. One awesome sequence where Svi worked hard to get open for the wing pass. Mason delivered it, and Svi immediately flipped it in to Ellis for an easy bucket. Svi plays active defense, busts his ass, is clearly the best at moving the ball. Hand checks a little too much … may catch the wrong ref sometime. He does need to hit his shots. I would like to see him drive it a few times. On a break, he took a three when he had the chance to drive it. Hard to complain about this guy.

    6. Full Court Pressure: This is awesome. But Self has to commit to doing this vs. better teams. Didn’t really see it vs. UK. Self’s has said before that he thinks good teams prefer being pressed. But Self has also said that his team needs an identity. I think targeted pressure, every game, should be part of that identity.

    Of course, the Rider result means nothing. We have a 10 man rotation right now. Mickelson is out. Oubre seems like the next guy out. Svi and Greene are just better now. Although Self has said he wants more ball handling on the floor – i.e., Mason and Graham together – that may not be the best choice right now because of Svi’s emergence, and Greene’s shooting. Hard rotation decisions, for sure. Mason’s poor play may make Self’s decisions for him. No way to tell right now. The next three games will shape things quite a bit.

  • @HighEliteMajor my take’s a lil different, plus I watched the post show. Mason had 7 pts, co high 5 rebounds, 4 assists and 1 TO. Guessing Cliff was late to tutoring-self said he had a hard time starting someone who was late to that. Just guessing he meant him. So nice to see 3’s dropping! The new guys are slow catching on, think that will change. I don’t think it’s going to matter who starts, but who has the hot hand, plus who’s playing D! Pleased to see Perry throw down that dunk, 'bout fell out of my chair!! Self wasn’t worried about Selden not scoring tonight, but would worry if it was ongoing. Should be a fun week of watching these guys improving!

  • @HighEliteMajor I don’t see Mason going anywhere. He has the best handles on the team. As long as he isn’t making offensive mistakes Self will find ways to keep him on the court. He doesn’t have to be the facilitator. I don’t think he looked bad. He did hit the corner three when Greene skip passed from the other corner; hopefully his passing game improves and his 3 % is serviceable.

    I agree with everything you said about Greene and Svi. When the offense started sucking in the second half, I was hoping we’d get back to shooting some 3’s. Up by 20 against Rider, you might as well work on moving the ball around the perimeter to get someone open. After Kentucky, wasn’t very interested in seeing them work on the high low except for some reps for Lucas and Alexander. Did enjoy seeing Lucas pop a jumper from the foul line. And Perry jamming in traffic was notable. He obviously was intent on having a few dunks this game.

  • @HighEliteMajor

    All chase. Not even a “cut to”. Great.

    I was in and out of watching the game and focused mostly on what Svi, Greene, Selden and the bigs were up to when I was in. I missed a lot of the Third Frank Mason’s team topping 29.

    Different persons saw different things from Frank. He seemed neutral to me. Some of the posters on JNew’s blog found him okay, others echo your sentiments.

    Looking at The Third Frank Mason’s line score indicates 4:1 A/TO and a block. His decisions still seemed iffy to me, but Self clearly told his perimeter guys to go get on the boards here is what Self is going to be telling his team tomorrow: “Frank is 5-11, well, he’s 5-9 really, grabbed five reebs. He tied with 6-8 Svi, well, 6-6 Svi, for the lead in rebounds with 5. Okay, let’s see here. Eh, Landen I start you and you’re 6-10, well, 6-9 and you get one less board than a 5-9 guy. Hmm. Perry, Frank, our 5-9 PG was +2 on you, our 6-8, well, 6-7 power forward. Jamari, I know you’re not 6-8, not really even 6-6, really just 6-5, but, well, you’re our post man and Frank was, um, +3 on you. Let’s see, who else do we have that we call a big? Um, Cliff. You’re a great big 6-8, well, 6-7 and 245, well, 235, and our 5-9 PG was +3 on the glass against you. Hell, Cliff, and Jamari, Hunter Mickelson whom I pretend doesn’t even exist because the bottom three disks in his thoracic vertebra don’t even let the guy bend over, or get in a squat to jump, tied both of you in only 5 minutes of PT. Think about that Mister OAD and Mister I Slept in a Flipping Car Human Interest Story! Even I had given that alabaster ivory cane in shorts over there your 34 minutes of PT, let’s see, lemme think, uh, Hunter would have grabbed 13 rebounds! How shall I put this? Frank may not know when to dish flipping hush puppies in a famine, but at least Frank can clear 5 rebounds in a game; and that’s something my big men CAN’T DO!! Now hear this you bunch of miserable maggots in boy shorts, I am hard but I am fair. While Lance Corporal Mason is sleeping in tomorrow, most likely along with Sviatslov whatever the flip his last name is, and while the other perimeter players are getting foot massages from Hanoi Hookers in heat, the KU Big Men will be having a 5AM rebounding practice, do you hear me, little big maggots?”

    Big Men in unison: “Yes, Sergeant, we little big maggots hear you, Sergeant!”

    Sergeant Self: And don’t worry, my little big maggots, this not punishment. Nooooooooooo, the sergeant does not believe in punishing little big maggots to help them learn. This is just because you did not get some things finished during the game, and so Sergeant Self has to make sure that you little big maggots get your work done. (pause) Do you hear me?

    Big Men in unison: Yes, Sergeant, we do, and we will be on time."

  • @HighEliteMajor

    My comments are not based on watching the game but only looking at the play by play on the computer thanks to #!^!$&! Zenger.

    From my perspective it looked like a tale of two halves, a good first half and a second not so good one. I am curious if the second half let down was due to the players losing concentration, Rider playing better, Coach Self testing different lineups or a combination?

    I am surprised about Oubre. I believe that his playing time might be related to this comment Coach Self had:

    Q. Did you like this starting lineup, kind of mixed and matched?

    BILL SELF: Yeah, I did. The whole thing is if everybody was responsible off the court, we’d probably have more of the same starting lineup every time. And I don’t mean doing anything bad, but we’ve got to tighten some things up. I see a lot of slippage on the court and I think there’s a correlation to being responsible off it, too. I’d like to see us settle in on a starting five, but I have a hard time starting guys who are late to tutoring. I can’t do it, and that’s kind of where that is right now. Hopefully we’ll tighten some things up because if we let them go now, I know it’s going to be something that will haunt us later. We’ve got to eliminate those things. We’ve got to become more responsible as a group.

    Of course it is hard to tell who he was talking about, I believe @Crimsonorblue22 indicated that she thought he was talking about Alexander, but it could have well been talking about Oubre. FWIW, I thought that Oubre was the best KU player against UK, so obviously I don’t agree with you assertion that Oubre started for reason other than merit.

  • @Crimsonorblue22

    Interesting, I though the late to tutoring comment was a reference to Oubre rather than Alexander; hard to tell…

  • I thought our passing was brilliant. Really nice, head snapping feeds that gave us easy points. Perry, Greene, Svi, and Cliff had excellent games, imo. I didn’t get mad at Frank one time, so he is making progress. I am so glad he dropped the Jamari as a starter routine- love Jamari, just not as a starter. We have a tough, tough game Thursday against Rhode Island, so a confidence booster game came at the right time for the good guys. RCJHGKU.

  • Just watched the game this morning. Love what I see from Greene. I know that it is pretty easy to shoot 3’s against a Rider than a UK but I still love it. Let the guy get some confidence. Confidence can be a wonderful thing.

    Selden not scoring is odd but I guess he realized early that this was a blowout? Not sure. I’m not worried about Mason. At all. He is a PG and has good handles, plays hard, is very athletic. I would not mind at all if he averages 6-7 points a game as long as he plays tough and has a good assist to TO ratio. If him and Graham can both have similar numbers scoring and A/TO then we are in good shape. Selden showed he can pass in the half court but not sure he is an answer against serious pressure.

    Cliff is a beast and should start. Landen looked very good but they are not in the same league. Maybe Cliff was the “late to tutoring” and if so fine that he comes off the bench but if he starts showing up to school lessons on time he should start…now. So should Svi. He looked great in the starting lineup. Mason, Selden, Svi, Perry, Cliff. Said it before but I think that is your 5. Greene off the bench bombing 3’s would be a lovely thing to see off the bench.

    All that said, agree with HEM that this Rider team is awful and there is not a lot to take from this game but as always I will take a win and it is good for our guys to see the ball go through the net repeatedly.

  • 20080117021844_fireside.jpg

    After the chores, those of us with DTV sat and listened to Max Falkenstein describe a real barn burner. Seriously, thank you to all bloggers that can tell me what things really looked like and who should start and who played good and who can’t play defense and who coach was yelling at and what the Rider player’s ripped jersey looked like and who our best rebounder is and…

  • @JayhawkFanToo - I realize you don’t “believe it.” Maybe you don’t want to believe it? Regardless, that’s your call. But I’m not saying it’s fact. I fully believe that this is speculation, and you might be right. I just think the evidence stacks up pretty well.

    Just my opinion here after watching the game, combined with the other games – Oubre simply looks lost out there. Times when he’s turning around, like he’s not sure what to do. Or awkwardly hesitating. Times on defense where he seems frozen, and one when a guy from the weak side was driving and he just stood outside the far block. To anyone watching Oubre, it seems clear that he is behind Greene and Svi, isn’t it? Self has talked about others needing to “gain strength” – that guy needs it as much as anyone.

    You say that Oubre was our “best player” vs. UK. Can’t argue with that. I really like his drive to the hoop. So then, with that, why did Self then not play him much? 13 minutes? Only 8th in minutes that game on the team. You have to admit that the evidence stacks up pretty solidly that the UK deal was a “show” start. Did you see the pregame video

    Self had referred to Alexander before related to not doing things correctly of the court, by name. This reference was vague, and could have been anyone not in the starting lineup. But obviously sounds like either Cliff or Oubre. Never know, it could have been Traylor. He had that issue at one point (going to class or something).

    All that said, Oubre is apparently extremely talented. We could see him more this weekend. If Self thinks he’s the best guy, I hope Self starts him and plays him more than the 13 minutes vs. UK, and the 15 minutes last night.

    But right now, just the eye test here, I would say that Svi is the better all around player. Does more, and obviously knows more. Greene’s shooting is desperately needed on this team. It’s nice to have Oubre’s talent curve, waiting to explode upward.

  • My take so far 3 games into the season. The starters or guys that have put in the most minutes have tallied up 107 points in 384 minutes of play. The next 5 guys with fewer minutes have 83 points in 187 minutes of action. If you flop the minutes our bench would have put up 169 points. Once the bench starts to play instead of think our guys are going to KILL IT!!! Hope it happens before conference play.

  • @HighEliteMajor Pretty much the same way I see Oubre at the moment. He’s like that 3rd ACE lurking near the top of the stack in a five-card poker game. And, yeah, I concurred with your take on his starting vs. UK; although I can understand why JahawkFanToo and J. Newell anointed him best player in that hapless contest. If Kelly bears patience and determination, sooner or later he will burst forth. Right now he looks timid and a bit lost.

  • @Statmachine Fascinating stats. Thanks for your post.

  • @HighEliteMajor Referring to your opening post: very high quality analysis - I would say “as usual” if I didn’t think you were actually raising your own high standard. One sign of superior analysis: many can see what’s there, few check what’s missing - like Sherlock Holmes who noticed that the dog didn’t bark…

  • Wasn’t able to watch the game in Nebraska so oh well, it was Rider.

    Glad to hear some good things coming out of the game though. Sheldon’s 9 assist, Traylor was second on the team I saw in the stats. Ellis dunked??? WOW who knew he had it in him? He needs to do that a lot more.

    Avi seems to slowly becoming a leader on the floor by his actions. Is this true or not?

    Greene shooting and shooting well, that’s what he needs to get him going, now to just keep him within the team.

  • @REHawk - “Pretty much the same way I see Oubre at the moment. He’s like that 3rd ACE lurking near the top of the stack in a five-card poker game.” ---- great analogy.

    @Statmachine - So who should start then? I have had this weird, “why is Selden starting” thing in the back of my mind for a while. He’s the anointed one. I know, silly thought. If Oubre ends up being the stud, and ball handling is the commodity we all really know it is (as @joeloveshawks noted), then could our best perimeter lineup actually be Mason or Graham, paired with Svi and Oubre? Try this – is Svi better right now than Selden? Interesting to consider.

    @ParisHawk – Thanks, much appreciated. It is a great time of the year. Three games in four days coming up. Doesn’t get much better than that. I’ll be locked down on Thanksgiving day, away from a computer post-game … don’t quite know how I’ll handle that.

  • @HighEliteMajor I haven’t got completely into gear and this is a really small sample size. For example if you gave Mickelson Traylors minutes he would average 15pts 5 boards and 5 blocks. I would have to think that Ellis, Alexander, and Lucas would be our 3 bigs. No more Mason, and start Selden at point Mason has 5ast to 5 turnovers and Selden 12 to 5 and has about the same stat line outside of that. Go with Svi, and Green starting with Oubre coming off the bench. The rest is situational depending on who we are playing and needs of the team.

  • @HighEliteMajor On Oubre, is he more of a product of AAU ball where it’s run and gun, little D and try and out score the other team, run a motion offense when you are in the half court?

    Only got to see him in the KY game and well I won’t judge anyone from that game.

  • @JayHawkFanToo somebody else said Mari. Who knows?

  • @wrwlumpy love the pic, send it to SZ!!

  • @JRyman oubre came in known as an awesome defender! I saw him play in quite a few all-star games, so surprising to see him so timid!

  • @Statmachine your stats don’t tell us how it works the other way- how many pts would Mari’s man have if Hunter was guarding him? IMO, you can’t just plug in stats that way.

  • @Crimsonorblue22 You’re right BUT when the objective is to out score your opponent then scoring is kind of a big deal. A difference of 80 points over 3 games is a heck of a lot of points and I am sure that the drop in defense doesn’t account for 80 points. If you add 80 points over 3 games we would have an average of about 90pts per game. Our opponents would have had to hang over 90 points on us to beat us… I can see the reason HCBS plays the guys he is playing but seriously when our guys start to fire on all cylinders its going to be night and day better than what we have now…

  • @Statmachine not saying scoring’s not a big deal, or I don’t appreciate your stats, BUT if Hunter would get that that many pts against the top bigs, why wouldn’t coach start him? There are so many intangibles the box score doesn’t show. Jmo

  • @JayHawkFanToo my son just reminded me, I forgot, that coach referenced Cliff being tardy to off the court stuff a couple of games ago.

  • @HighEliteMajor Interesting to consider for sure but I think Selden is a guy that we have to have playing huge minutes. Even if he is not playing the best right now he is a guy this team needs to be playing well late. The only way he plays well in March is if he is getting minutes all year and he will. You can just tell that Bill loves him. He started every game as a freshman. I like Mason at the PG still. The Graham sample size is still too small.

    As far as the other best perimeter lineup I think you have to have Greene in there after last night. He is the only dead eye shooter on our entire team. Svi has flashes of a beautiful shot but I don’t think he is as good from deep as Greene. I love seeing Svi out there, though. I did not see his skills being this advanced this early in any way. What a nice surprise. Thankfully he can’t pull a Jo Jo and leave us after his one year of surprisingly good results.

  • I have been wondering if lifting weights is effecting Svi’s shot? ALL of his shots are long if you have been keeping an eye on it. Is the strength and conditioning bothering his shot? Could be mental could be physical but as for right now its a very real thing. Oubre is shooting 50% from 3 just like Greene but he is not playing? I don’t know how all the pieces are coming together but I trust HCBS to fit it together.

  • @joeloveshawks I agree w/you!! Greene just needs to keep his butt down and playing D so he can stay out there! Svi is so refreshing, I’m hoping his hustle and desire is contagious! Selden did a good job covering the pt, except on the press. Can’t have him there if we play a tough pressing team! We need him consistently at 2 or 3, but if he struggles, more than 1 guy can step in. Nice to know that, and hopefully that inspires Selden!

  • @HighEliteMajor

    My perspective is very limited since I cannot watch the games and have to rely on either the radios broadcast or the game live stats, so I am pretty much guessing what happens on the court at game time.

    One question I asked but you did not address is the reason for the difference in performance between the two halves. Like I said, not being able to actually watch the game makes it difficult to see what happened.

    It seems pretty clear that the newer players are having difficulty learning the system which was developed before the OAD era and depends on players staying longer than one year; the '08 team with experienced players executed the system beautifully and won the Championship. If Coach Self is going to continue pursuing the OADs, then maybe his system need to be modified to account for the shorter time available to learn the system. or else, he needs to go back to recruiting top 20-30 players that will stay at least 3 years and that he can develop into NBA capable players. Of the 13 KU players currently in the NBA that played for Coach Self, only Henry, Wiggins and Embiid were top 10 players and Embiid got there after signing with KU; the other 10 were not top 10 but developed nicely with several going lottery.

    It is indeed an interesting dilemma. Do we recruit OAD players and the the publicity (read $$$) they bring, even when the team will not be as good, or do we stop recruiting OADs, get much less publicity but end up with a better product? Do we no longer have the recruiters that can spot raw talent that can be developed? Is a top tier player with little experience better than second tier player with experience? Lots of questions and really no right or wrong answers.

  • @JayHawkFanToo Julian (now playing in Europe) was a top 10 recruit. I think Chalmers and Rush were both top 15 as was Arthur. Sherron was top 20. That group of guys was so stacked and the fact that all of that talent hung around (I know Julian left after 2007) was amazing and will probably never be duplicated in the OAD era by KU or any other college team.

  • @joeloveshawks

    I left out Wright because he was not a consensus top 10; he was ranked as high as #5 and as low as #15…maybe borderline top 10???

  • I am concerned about the Oubre situation. He looks like he is really struggling with his game, which is troubling for a player as naturally gifted as he is. He is questioning all of his moves, doing more thinking than actual playing. That is not good.

    I think Oubre will get on track - he’s too good not to - but this does concern me as far as the coaching that is being done. A player that is that good should not be so bogged down with the system that they forget how to play basic basketball. Kelly needs to clear his head and play ball.

    As for the rest, I like that Perry was aggressive offensively. I’d like to see him be that aggressive to the hole against bigger guys. It’s nice to dunk on some 6-7 guys from Rider, but they won’t block your shot either way. You need to dunk on bigger guys, because they will throw that shot back.

    Mason is our best bet at PG. His speed makes a huge difference for this team. Self needs to give him the keys and let him drive. He will make mistakes along the way, but he’s the best bet for this team achieving its potential.

    Svi and Greene will help space the floor all year. They should play together as often as possible to stretch the D in a lot of different directions.

    Traylor and Alexander need to start getting minutes together. I’d like to see Self put out a lineup of Mason, Svi, Greene, Traylor and Alexander for a few minutes. That would basically let the big guys hammer the offensive glass with spacing because they have Svi and Greene to stretch the floor, and Mason has some drive and dish options. This is a lineup that should be cultivated.

    Mickelson looks like the odd man out in the big rotation. Tough break for a guy that transferred in, but I can’t figure how he will find minutes either this year or next.

  • @HighEliteMajor I also have wondered about Selden for the most of 2 yrs. Average shooter, often careless with the ball, better than avg defender. That may be Bills mantra to be the golden child so to seem. But I like Svi & Greene a lot, especially with Ciff on the floor. Wonder if Landon is still slowed by the injury? Oh we’ll maybe Ellis will dunk again before Christmas? Tray lot is a spark plug off the bench but not a starter either.

  • How about Tarik Black? Going undrafted to the #10 spot on the NBA Rookie ladder!!!

  • Mason is a very good player and a tough high value competitor. Do not underestimate his contribution and athleticism and place on this team. His ONLY weakness is height and maybe youth. He is getting better and is a STUD.

    KU as a team cannot be a poor man’s UK, We need to be a team like the ones we have had over the past decade but without the 3-4 year players. This is a major adjustment in the OAD era. How to play sophisticated O and D with newbies?

    The answer is not the OAD but the two and three year players who have superior talent but need to learn the game, and specifically the KY game.

    We are short and fragile against length and height and great athletes. We compensate by pressuring on D (GOOD JOB COACH SELF, at long last) and being scrappy and tough on the boards, and smart on O.

    But we have to let the 3 fly 15-20 times a game (and not just at the end of the shot clock) and make 35% and 70% free throws. If we do this, we will be good this year and next…ROCK CHALK!

  • @jayhawk-007

    I believe Mason’s main problem is his mindset. He still plays like the HS volume shooter/scorer that the was and not the game manager/ball distributor the team needs him to be.

  • @Statmachine

    Tarik fell into good situation in Houston. With Howard being injured and missing games, he had the opportunity to get lots of minutes that he would not have had otherwise…and he is making the most of it.

  • Also -

    When Perry dunked, we saw that hidden raw talent and explosiveness.

    When Seldon passed last night we saw leadership and selflessness.

    When Landon hit the reserve lay up, we saw Jo-Jo footwork and great potential for this year and next and next.

    When Svi had that 3 minute stretch, we saw how he will contribute HUGE this year and next.

    When Greene went for 17, we see the scoring potential of a 15 /game guy.

    When Kelly matched up against UK, we saw the skill and talent in a mirror,

    Alexander the Great is better than T-Rob and will be the key player in Feb and March, Can he learn to stay on the floor 25 + min / game?

    Traylor is a STUD. Put him in anytime against anyone as the disruptor.

    Graham is the LEADER…he will win us a few games this year a lot of games in Y2-4.

    Hunter will come into two games this year in conference play and win them for us,and at least 2-3 next year as well. He might play in Europe.

    Coach Self and assistants have a plan: the 2-3 year dones and a mixed model of UK and KU - only concern is need to upgrade the Offense.

    roxck Chalk!

  • Well the way I see this game is, as a team we didn’t get any better. And after the week this team had I would have thought that maybe we would come out and utterly dominated. We did the first half but the 2nd half wasn’t good. Good teams can put away an over-matched team both halves and right now we aren’t that.

    Maybe I’m expecting too much, but its Kansas and success is all we know in the Self Era.

    I’ve expected more from this team, not an unrealistic thing to expect and I’ve been pretty upset with individual play so far. I do think that with more games things will start to even out and Self will be able to get these guys to buy into what he’s selling.

    It starts Thursday. We play basically 2 over-matched games before a possible Michigan St team. In order to win we need Selden to score and become that 2nd consistent scoring threat. He’s not shown much improvement so far. I loved his 9 dimes last night but he needs to score no matter what. When the minutes thin out and he’s getting 30, we can’t have him with zero points no matter the other ways he may impact the game.

    Let’s hope practice goes well the next few days…

  • @BeddieKU23

    I disagree with your statement that as a team KU did not get better. From reading reports of the game looks like KU played the best half of basketball so far in this season. Yes, the second half was not equally good and I am still not sure what changed; I posed that question earlier but I did not get an answer. Maybe Coach Self did not want it to become a blow out and get the players overconfident. BTW, the Vegas line for this game was 20 points so KU easily exceed the project spread.

    I also disagree with Rhode Island being an over matched game. They are 3-0 having won their first two games easily and then beating #21 Nebraska, a team that is expected to contend in the Big 10; nothing over matched about that game. Just my opinion and I could be wrong.

    Remember this game?

  • @JayHawkFanToo said:


    I disagree with your statement that as a team KU did not get better. From reading reports of the game looks like KU played the best half of basketball so far in this season. Yes, the second half was not equally good and I am still not sure what changed; I posed that question earlier but I did not get an answer. Maybe Coach Self did not want it to become a blow out and get the players overconfident. BTW, the Vegas line for this game was 20 points so KU easily exceed the project spread.

    I also disagree with Rhode Island being an over matched game. They are 3-0 having won their first two games easily and then beating #21 Nebraska, a team that is expected to contend in the Big 10; nothing over matched about that game. Just my opinion and I could be wrong.

    Remember this game?

    Remind you we played Rider. We didn’t improve enough to believe that the ship has been fixed in one week. It’s probably asking too much for that to happen in such short fashion. KU will have to start playing at a much higher rate to win the better games still left on the non-conference slate.

    Individually it was nice to see Svi and Greene make some baskets. Perry was solid against guys his size, Alexander was fantastic the first half and awful the 2nd. We played spirited D the first and let up the 2nd. I liked Lucas starting but it sounded like that was more to Self making a point with either Traylor or Cliff or both.

    We certainly don’t have a lineup or rotation set and hopefully those things start to play out soon so that by conference play we have an identity. We need a spirited, improved team in Orlando!

  • @HighEliteMajor

    “Self’s has said before that he thinks good teams prefer being pressed.”

    Yes, he said that. But he shouldn’t have because he, basically, inferred many of his teams were not good teams. I’ve never actually seen a Self team “prefer” to be pressed. I’ve seen many commit big time TOs under presses and perimeter guard pressure.

  • @drgnslayr I used to LOVE for teams to press us when Roy was coach. Oh my gosh, that was simply a work of art watching our guys destroy presses.

    BTW, in case I forget: Misery got stomped by Arizona … Booyah!


    …and Purdue too!!!

  • @HighEliteMajor Well, I thought the tutoring reference was Traylor…he had been starting before and Lucas was kind of out of the blue…but we don’t know what has been going on in practice. I like Traylor as a back up also. Clearly, Oubre is behind Greene and Svi in terms of being in the right spot. But Self said, and it appears to be so…he is still trying to figure out who our best players are. I thought Mason was OK…did some good things…got in the lane…the one fast break layup was vintage Mason…but still needs to improve a lot. I do believe that Self will stick with him for a long time…Self seems to like what Mason brings to the table and will do everything he can to give the guy a chance to learn the position…unless Graham becomes the guy…Self has said that Frank is a scoring point…aka the 2nd ball handler.

  • @JayHawkFanToo Nice catch!!! I was watching the Grapes vs Az, and they flashed the Purdue/Misery score…made me realize that Fizzou is piling up losses faster than even Jethro Bodines’ mathematical skills can keep up with. LOL.

    Final Score : Purdue 82, Misery 61 …


    Worst part? I had the option of watching all of MU games; I don’t have the option of watching all of KU games. SUCKS!!!

  • @JayHawkFanToo “Mindset” – exactly right. This is what will determine Mason’s fate. Because he ain’t gonna score like high school.

    @jayhawk-007 – You certainly see the glass half full.

    @Hawk8086 – I had a twitter exchange with Rustin Dodd. He thought the tutoring reference he thought Self was referring to guys that had started before, thus not Cliff. Sounds like maybe Traylor as you suggest.

  • @HighEliteMajor funny, we all think differently on the late to tutoring!!

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