Eastern Illinois. 344 Ken Pom KU #5
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Juan and KJ were both issues tonight.
KJ is still a good center but he isn’t a good wing. Can’t handle or shoot so Hunter has less room to operate. The spacing is terrible which is a large part of the turnover issue.
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@cragarhawk maybe 2
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Timberlake’s deep funk is making him nearly unplayable. I’d rather see more ‘Mari at this point.
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Apparently it just wasn’t a good night to be a B12 basketball school. KSUCK needed ot to beat ORU and Cincinnati barely escaped Howard.
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Not one good thing about this game, very un-inspiring. - -Juan was warm dog doo , just bad ball. outrebounded,-- If we don’t start hitting some outside shots we are in BIG trouble. — for the most part I’d say 80 % of the game if w didn’t make a lay up we had nothing.–We play even close to this Friday we just might get run out of the gym. Plain and simple.
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@dylans he tied a his career high here with 5 points!!! I honestly don’t care about his shooting as much as defense and the little things. But my gosh that is a terrible basketball player, sorry to say but truthful imo. Especially when you figure he’s played at the D1 level for this long, arguably the biggest recruit miss of the Self era.
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We didn’t try hard. We have talent. Can we beat UConn, sure. Will we, who knows! Hunter is a great offensive player but he’s a really poor slow defender. We have 4 good players. But Hunter doesn’t really match the other 3. Adams, Kevin, Harris all would be better in a more in your face defensive squad that can run the floor. Hunter needs a slow pace, half court offense, with 3 point shooters. Part of the style of the main 4 doesn’t gel perfect. Ultimately the problem is the 5 th starter and bench. It’s bad, and self really missed. Elmarko has been pretty disappointing for his hype. Other transfers are not great. He took a stupid gamble on the Texas kid that got kicked off the team. And Marcus Adam’s recruitment was a mistake as well. For ku prestige and bill selfs resume it’s shocking he couldn’t land better transfers outside of hunter
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Main unit looks better with McDowell! He needs to get his minutes and grow. Furphy as the main bench guy. Elmarko is Harris sub and occasionally McCullers
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I just really like Jamari. Not interested in trashing Nick, but he needs to be elite at 1 thing: shooting. If he isnt, then Mari and Marko need minutes. If he is then he becomes an important weapon. But i dont see the team feeding him like a primary option when hes open. either the coach forces the team to use him or doesn’t, i dont see him as part of this team’s identity organically.
Mari and Furphy look like the guys to inherit his 3s. And Marko and Mari his minutes. Unfortately if Juan isnt coming out Marko Mari and nick are all competing for 2 guard minutes.
This is the beginning of the end of Nicks minutes i think. This was the game to feature him and we didnt.
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@wissox said in Eastern Illinois. 344 Ken Pom KU #5:
@nuleafjhawk only the throws are free my friend the points come at much cost
Syracuse 2003 still hurts.
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@jayhawks2010 sadly Timberlake was touted as the best shooter in the portal and he just isn’t. I think Furphy, Elmarko and McDowell are the keys to this team. If this team had an Ochai and/or Braun type that can drive, play above the rim and hit jumpers. This team would be ungodly good. We could be a better team without KJ on the floor as much as I love that kid.
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Next year will be athletic and spread the floor well if these 3 stay.
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@tundrahok said in Eastern Illinois. 344 Ken Pom KU #5:
@wissox said in Eastern Illinois. 344 Ken Pom KU #5:
@nuleafjhawk only the throws are free my friend the points come at much cost
Syracuse 2003 still hurts.
Dude……Never mention this again
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As much as I’d like a better ft shooting team at KU I really struggle to think of a self team that lost an important game from FTs. Doke lost one or two I think but regular season types only.
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@approxinfinity said in Eastern Illinois. 344 Ken Pom KU #5:
The funny thing about Wayne saying the ball needs to go to Hunter every play to score is exactly why that team got beat by Bucknell. The team was broken because it tried to feed it to Wayne every play.
Oooh, you shoulda banned yourself for any mention of B***nell!
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@rockchalkjayhawk ha. I’ll self-impose a 3 game ban deferred to next year (maybe preseason, lol)
Wayne was 9 for 14
Mike Lee was 6 for 9
Moody was 2 for 2
JHawk was 1-1
rest of team: Miles 0-5 Giddens 1-7 Langford 1-7 (hurt/sick) Giles 0-1 Kaun 0-0 Galindo 0-0 Total : 2 for 18
We outbounded them, we shot a higher percentage.
But we had 4 more turnovers and they had 9 more shot attempts.
We were 1-11 from THREE (Jhawks one bucket from the bench).
We were 22-27 from the line.
They were 8-31 from 3 and 12-16 from the line
It isnt the only team whose post season came to a crashing end (ours or other teams) when their perimeter failed to score and they tried to feed the big man.
Several things about that team make it a tasty cautionary tale. Pass first point guard going 0-5 (all time KU assists leader). No production from the bench. Several NBA level players getting next to zero minutes. A dirth of 3 point shooting.
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Eh. Wayne makes that free throw line jumper 75% of the time, we just got to witness the miss. Playing thru Wayne was the right move.
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If it looks like ass and ****** **** *** it’s ass. Good morning and you are welcome.
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@dylans only because thats where we were as a team. We were backed into a corner of our making and put all our eggs in the Wayne basket while everyone else laid them. Why he averaged 20 pts that year.
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Well - - -How should I reply about the game last night and what I saw - -felt - - -thoughts about the game without offending somebody here, or feel like I stepped on someone’s toes , or somebody takes things entirely wrong and think I’m just a hater ?
I guess I would have to say if anyone felt good about the way the guys played last night then — holla. - - where to begin ? - -first I guess like has been mentioned in this thread Hunter and I’ve said this before Hunter is just a bad fit just doesn’t seem like the right fit. - -As was mentioned by another here Hunter is a really bad liability on the defensive end. How many times did he get blistered when he was pulled out away from the basket ? They were drooling at the mouth when he was up high on D. Sure offensively he is fine, and yet even then he is slow , when we have to run a pattern offense we bog down a lot this year, like we have been in the past, these guys are at our best when we can get out and run - - run before the other guys have the chance to really sit up on D. - -I’m not trying to bash , just trying to tell it like it is- - -it is what it is. I am glad he is here BUT - - - -
This game really wasn’t one persona fault for the play last night - -it was the entire team almost…- -How can you explain a team that was a 38.5 favorite is struggling like hell leading by ONE point very late in the game ?- no excuses for that - - NONE. - -ok try and try and justify it but using Hawaii - -great I give some credence for that - -I’ll give you up to Twenty points off for that if you like - -what about the other eighteen they were favored by ?
Juan was sloppy with the ball , - -We got out rebounded by this team - -we shoot 3-14 from the three- - -we shoot like 67 % from the line. - Answer me this Hunter by the like eight minute mark of the FIRST HALF already had TEN rebounds, WHAT HAPPENED ? -HE GOT ONE REBOUND-- ONE the rest of the entire game, what the hell ?
I could go on but I won’t I’ll simply say if we continue with these problems : - -Juan scores ONE point doesn’t really even look to score that often - -other teams will and can ignore him as a threat. Don’t even try to justify his ONE game outing as we know that was more of an abnormality then the norm. - We have a 2 guard who can’t shoot or is just reluctant to ( Jackson )- we have a four man ( KJ ) I love the guy but can’t shoot past 7 foot so not a factor unless he can get a dunk- also non factor when comes to rebounding , horrible rebounding the ball- so in reality most or a lot of the times other teams have really two guys they need to guard - -Hunter & Kevin.
I’ll tell you this , if I were coaching a team against KU I would 100 % play a zone against these guys and make them prove to me that they can shoot the three consistently in the game. - I’m not talking about makin one, two , three, even four - If you shoot like they normally do, and say even like four out of eighteen - -twenty I can for sure live with that , but they would have to show me that they can knock down the trey on a consistent bases in the game.- -Hunter wouldn’t see the ball on the inside.
If we continue to play like we did last night - -U Conn will run us right off our own court.- -However I feel Coach is going to have a great practice today and I bet we see a different team totally Friday Night---- ROCK CHALK
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@jayballer67 I think we have 3 guys that in theory will be able to do most things well, and then a bunch of guys that have conditional weaknesses that make them hard to play with other pieces Hunter can score, but can’t play D. Juan can pass and d but can’t always score. Kevin can do everything well but then can’t hit the ocean sometimes. KJ can’t shoot outside 7 feet. Timberlake doesn’t do anythign special except shoot, and doesn’t get enough shots to do that well here.
It is so much easier to do things with interchangeable parts. Which is why we need to play the young guys, and that’s what Self did last night.
Now conventional wisdom @jayballer67 would be that we’ll see a different team against UConn. The belt will be tightened; we will experiment less. I do think we see precise offense with the old guys and that leads to some nice polished possessions. However, as someone pointed out, our bench was more productive than our starters yesterday. So… at what point do the young guys get trusted with big boy minutes?
I hope we are moving to a place, and it appears we are, where the draft classes year over year are more well rounded / interchangeable pieces… less critical flaws to a man.
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@approxinfinity said in Eastern Illinois. 344 Ken Pom KU #5:
The funny thing about Wayne saying the ball needs to go to Hunter every play to score is exactly why that team got beat by Bucknell. The team was broken because it tried to feed it to Wayne every play.
When Simien was saying the ball needed to go to Hunter on every possession, he’s not saying that Hunter needs to shoot every time. He’s saying that Hunter is KU’s best offensive player and him touching the ball opens things up for others because Hunter is getting double and triple teamed on a regular basis. That’s what Wayne meant by playing through Hunter.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I’d endorse that take except that the ball is not getting distributed by Hunter. Hunter could make guys like Timberlake happy if they got the kickout on the double. They don’t. Hunter had 2 assists that game. That’s fine, but we’re not playing through him. We’re playing to him.
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Ouch
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We can post pictures again? Thanks @approxinfinity
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So - not entirely sure why some on this site are trashing Nick so much compared to the other bench players… when Elmarko or Jamari or Johnny misses open shots, no one here seems to jump on them like they do Nick. I understand that their upsides are potentially huge, and am glad the Self is giving them good minutes- the faster they develop, the better for us down the road. When I watch Nick, I see good defense, hustle, moving away from the ball, passing, and he boxes out well. He is not as athletic and the aforementioned 3 guys, but in my opinion he can be a good addition to this team, because he can shoot the three consistently when given minutes, and when he starts to acclimate to this level.
Here’s an excerpt from the game recap from LJW:
“ After a lethargic stretch for the next 10 minutes, Nicolas Timberlake, who had been struggling in his reserve role to begin the year, helped Kansas create some separation late in the first half. Timberlake drilled a 3-pointer from the left wing on an assist by Jackson, only to follow that up with a better play on the next possession. Timberlake faked out a defender on the perimeter before drilling a pull-up jumper from mid-range.
Moments later, Timberlake dished a quick entry pass to Hunter Dickinson for the turnaround jumper to stretch KU’s lead to double-digits.”
That’s certainly what I saw… and he tried a block on 2-on 1 breakaway due to a horrendous pass by KJ, fouled the guy who made the layup, and then was pulled. What am I missing?
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Bill’s post game interview was pretty revealing about Nick and how Bill sees it. I wondered why he didn’t see play for most of the second half and it was because he missed a defensive assignment early and Bill blew a gasket. He almost seemed angry about the question that was asked.
It’s frustrating because Nick playing well (and being allowed to play) could help this team quite a bit.
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I agree with the above two takes on Nick — he played pretty well (better than he has been) and given more time might have played even better. My concern is that he’s not going to be able to replicate that against top teams and they will target him on D. But we’ll see. I’d love for my worry to prove unfounded.
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I think poor Nick gets beat up more so than the freshmen because he is a sixth year player — who shot 40+ percent from deep his last two years at Towson. So, he came with experience and some expectation of instant success — more so than the freshmen.
He’s shooting 29% at the moment, and has mostly been burnt toast on defense.
I think we all want him to succeed. He’d better start soon, or Jamari will get all his minutes.
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Nick is a player with little margin for error. He has some hops, but I’d hardly classify him as an elite athlete. So when he’s slumping, his entire game suffers. If he can regain some optimism he can rise to the occasion to be the player Self recruited. But he’ll have to bring optimism every night and play with a chip. He could actually be a catalyst for this team because they don’t possess enough “team chip” at this point in the season.
Hope someone wearing crimson/blue brings a chip against UCONN because Hurley is one of the few coaches that has a permanent chip in his DNA and he knows how to instill it in his players.
This game could go in either direction… might be best for us to take a thrashing to build chip for the rest of the season… like UK gave us in our championship year. It hurt us being preseason #1… boys all thought they deserved it.
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@drgnslayr I’ve always liked your “Chip” theory. And I agree with you. It doesn’t just pertain to us or to sports, but in almost every area of life when you are over confident and cocky - you stand a very good chance of getting knocked down. A hunger for success is always a good motivator.
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The minutes run through Jackson and Furphy more and more.
It looks like Jamari may get more time, especially if there’s need for defense, foul trouble or injury.
But Nick has no niche right now. He’s not an asset offensively and he’s not an asset defensively. He’s got a few more weeks to get more consistent offensively, but he’ll have to do it with an increasingly tighter leash.
Obviously this is disappointing because he was expected to be an impact player. He has the potential to break out and dazzle, but we just haven’t seen it and after december, the clock strikes 12.
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After the break we will know exactly what the team will be going forward. There is always a big leap forward in cohesion both on offense and defense. The playbook opens up more and options on various movements begin to make sense to the new guys. Help side defense will vastly improve as well. Switching on D is a new concept to most as Dan eluded to in his post game interview (they don’t see that much if at all), so that will improve as well. If the defensive intensity they demonstrated against UConn is sustainable for 6 games in march, it’s over folks.
