2023-2024 Statistics
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@BeddieKU23 said in 2023-2024 Statistics:
KU moved down 3 more spots to #16 on Kenpom for winning. You cannot make this up
I dunno I agree with you but I heard/read somewhere the reason we are moving down is because we are not blowing these teams like Yale and other middle tier schools out. Our turnovre/steal ratio is down in the middle 100’s compared to last years top 15, just some crazy excuses why they are moving us down.—It’s ok we will just still keep winning, screw their stats
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We win a bowl game for goodness sakes and didn’t move up in the Kenpom rankings. Outrageous
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@wissox said in 2023-2024 Statistics:
We win a bowl game for goodness sakes and didn’t move up in the Kenpom rankings. Outrageous
All those penalties created lots of FTs. Kenpom punishes us for giving up FT attempts even though UNLV didn’t make one.
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Update before Conference Play
Kenpom:
13th- Offense #37, Defense #4.
Torvik:
17th- Offense #53, Defense #9.
PER’s:
Hunter and Kev are elite (29 & 25).
Other stats:
Harris is closing in on 10th place all time for assists. He is currently 7 away from tying Sherron Collins who has 552. At his current rate of just under 7 dimes a game, Harris could end the season #3 on the all-time list with 1 more year to go to try and break Aaron Miles record of 954. It’s within reach next year which is crazy to think.
Harris already sits at #10 for career steals with 182. With another year he has a chance to finish #2 passing Mario Chalmers.
Hunter Dickinson is poised to break the single season record for rebounds held by Thomas Robinson (350). At his current rate he’d break the record before the conference tournament.
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From what has happened so far if we play well we are better than anyone. If an opponent is pulling shots out of their collective anus someone needs to exceed their normal output by being an a**hole for our side too. We can shut most teams down but we seem to have about a 4 minute (around 18 pts) scoring lull in each half which causes the famous “we are up by nine but should be up by twenty” posts. Our loss was when we couldn’t handle Marquette’s pressure. I can see us being 20 and 1 because of our experienced leaders and then the conference games get very heated.
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These rankings is why I still prefer RPI, the knock on that was it put too much on SOS but some of these ratings are both sort of laughable. I like KenPom for sure but still the worst bracket I filled out was using there system.
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KU wins another game
Kenpom/Torvik- yep move KU down so more.
Going to be real interesting to see who’s right the further we get along. Self or the numbers guys.
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@BeddieKU23 which is crazy to think about from the stand point that OU was quad 1 and we won by double digits. Almost to the point where what do we have to do to move up?
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@kjayhawks said in 2023-2024 Statistics:
Almost to the point where what do we have to do to move up?
Maybe if we win everything from here on, incl the championship game, we can move backwards into the 100s, through the 200s and 300s, and go all the way past the lowest rating until it starts over at the top 10.
Like going back to zero when playing the card game Hearts.
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Positive Movement on Kenpom after whoopin OSU.
Coming in #17 overall- 21.07 rating, after #14- 22.27 rating
#39 offense, # 11 defense- after #31, #10
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Hunter is now 34 pts away from 2,000 in his career. Would be 4th all-time in KU history for context.
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KenPom on the difference between his rankings and the AP rankings. An interesting read: https://kenpom.substack.com/p/lets-talk-about-memphis
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@HoraceZontal So he uses KU as an example of a team that has more top 30 wins proving that Memphis doesn’t belong and then goes on to say that KU is over rated. I have lost what little respect I had for his poll. His ego, however, is amazing.
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@dylans ya like I said the worst bracket I filled out was heavily KenPom influenced. I only lie to look at a few things he has like offensive and defensive efficiency. I believe no team outside of the top 25 in both has ever won a title. Also would note KenPom loved the 2010 team was number 1 til the last week of the season. It also had the 2022 team in the teens for much of the season.
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Saw an interesting post that now I can’t find the link to about where the last 10 NCAA Champs were ranked at this point in the season. I think only 1 was #1 (Nova) and most where hanging in the top 5 or top 10 with the UConn coming out of no where twice. So, sitting at 7 isn’t the worst place to be. Though I’d be curious about the kenpom rankings of those champs at the same point in the season.
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@benshawks08 I was thinking 2020 we would have been a long term #1, but we didn’t enter the #1 spot until the 3rd to last week of the season. A pre Christmas loss and one early in January to Baylor meant a hole to climb out of. I bring it up because we know KU is winning it all that year!
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Harris passed 600 assists yesterday.
#13 Kenpom, up a few spots after crushing #1.
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Bill Self is now 8 wins from Phog Allen
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Harris is 7th all time in assists currently. He’s got a shot to be 3rd all time by end of season.
Also 7th all time in steals currently
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@BeddieKU23 In 4 years, that’s a great showing! I’m not sure what to think about the 5th year stat accumulation that Harris will have after next season. Skews things.
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@dylans I would think he would easily be the assists leader if he stayed for next season.
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Let’s see.
Current: 601 assists
Record: 954 (Aaron Miles)
Avg: 6.6 per game
Games left in 2024: 9 regular season games, 1 definite, 3 possible Big-12 Championship games, 1 definite, 6 possible NCAA tournament games.
11 games officially left at 6.6 pg = 6.6 = 72.6 18 games max left at 6.6 pg = 118.8
After 2023-24 season- 673 to 719 range
2024-25 season: 673 + 33 games (min) @ 6.6 per game (2023-24 current avg) = 673 + 217 = 890.
Obviously, a fluid situation with how many tournament games KU plays the next two seasons. That’s anywhere from 4 to 18 games. Somewhere around 8.5 per game would get him near the record next season.
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How do we even handle transfers on the All-Time Scoring List now. It’s been a question I have with the changing landscape. Guys that stay 4/5 years are literally going to be dinosaurs now.
Hunter just hit 2,000 pts (2030) for his career for which only 3 players in KU History have achieved. His KU count is only 413 and counting. He’d technically pass Raef Lafrentz (2066) soon & can pass Nick Collison (2097) as well this season.
No idea what they are going to do.
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@BeddieKU23 just my 2 cents, but it seems if we’re talking KU stats for KU players, we shouldn’t count the stats attained by transfer players from other schools since those numbers aren’t KU related numbers.
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I agree actually. Transferring is the new era and there’s going to be very few players that start and finish their careers here anymore. Interested to see how its handled in the future.
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How many boards does Hunter have?
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Currently this is the 2nd lowest rated team in the Self Era per Kenpom. Only the 2020-21 team ended rated lower, they lost in the 2nd round. For further reference, the team rated the closest to this one (03-04) made the Elite 8. Perhaps an outlier since the next 5 lowest rated teams lost in the 1st or 2nd round. Hopefully this year is another outlier
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@BeddieKU23 said in 2023-2024 Statistics:
Currently this is the 2nd lowest rated team in the Self Era per Kenpom. Only the 2020-21 team ended rated lower, they lost in the 2nd round. For further reference, the team rated the closest to this one (03-04) made the Elite 8. Perhaps an outlier since the next 5 lowest rated teams lost in the 1st or 2nd round. Hopefully this year is another outlier
I’d say the difference is this year’s team has proven they can beat elite competition, whereas that team got the doors blown off whenever they played anyone elite with the exception of that one Baylor game where they were coming off covid
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Yeah 7 wins against the Top 25 competition. They can compete with just about anyone when right. I just don’t have any clue on what that means in the tournament. They have struggled on the 2-day turnarounds. Being healthy physically and mentally is a big thing with this group. No margin for error.
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@BeddieKU23 No margin for error is right.
One thing this team has done, that those other teams that flamed out early didn’t do, was string together 6 wins in a row during the season. This team can get cooking, but can easily flame out too. If they make the final four watch out! If they lose early it’s not unexpected either. Very high ceiling and pretty low floor.
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Idk I’m not as down on this team as everyone else seems to be. They are kind of built for march with the only thing really missing is a good 6th man. It’d also be nice if we could get a little more scoring from our pg, but Dajuan has come up big for us before so not going to completely count him out. We go into the tourney completely healthy and I would pick KU as a good bet to get to the F4. And if timbies can tighten up his play a bit, a championship run is on the table.
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If we can get our guys healthy, then I could like our chances to at least make it out of the first weekend.
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@BShark that second game of the first weekend game will have me nervous no matter what.
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ya, if we are healthy might get through 1st weekend —Actually I see us at our tope shot - - maybe Sweet Sixteen think that’s the limit if the ball rolls right.
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I agree with all of you. Second game of the first weekend will make me nervous, but I expect we’ll get through that. If we win the third game, we are playing with house money.
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How cliché, 3 former Hawks Tyon-Grant Foster, Isaac McBride and Tristan Enaruna all finished tied for 36th nationally in scoring at 19.8ppg.
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I think this point should be debated where talented players recruited and enrolled at KU for some reason or other struggle here and become better players and perform after transfer.
Is KU standard so high that they cannot adjust?
Is HCBS too demanding?
As there too much pressure here?
Thoughts?
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@AsadZ They were nowhere near the best players at KU when they left (McBride, backed out). They were the best players on their new teams (TGF, eventually). The best players on teams tend to have higher scoring averages if the coach figures out how to blend them in. Not predictive of how they would have done here.
No more predictive of high scoring average than, say, putting Timberlake or Joe Y on KU.
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I am not saying that these were best players at KU but they were certainly talented enough to be recruited by KU coaches, Grimes was MacD American if I recall correctly. Tristan was highly touted.
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@AsadZ coaching is part if the problem, Self says we have a team full of 4/5 star guys, need to not only play defense but improve to get on the court. Some of the smaller schools they have no one else so the coach just gives them the ball and says go do what you can. Another part of it is the competition isn’t close to what it is in the B12. Tristan was also at ISU and didn’t do much (good kid, still snap with him at times).
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They didn’t become what you see today until they were upper class men. Something they didn’t achieve at KU, because of the transfer. Maybe the transfer allowed them to grow - I don’t always like being the first employer of a young person as they have no comparable experience to draw upon. ie is this normal? Maybe not having the free out after the first transfer makes them buckle down. Or maybe it’s simply just getting more seasoned with age. And in several cases it was just a bad system fit.
At least that’s my guess.
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@dylans 21+year old is quite different than an 18-19 year old in many ways. I understand that Bobby Knight while at Indiana worked with a sports psychologist to develop a test that was then given to a kid before Knight would recruit him. This helped determine whether or not the kid would be able to function under him. Probably wasn’t fool proof but it probably saved some problems over the years.
