Lagerald vs Svi
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@mihawk I agree unless, ha! Self goes zone. I’d never do it. I’d take quick over big anytime
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@drgnslayr I meant what bigs we are playing against. We could really go fast if we wanted to.
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From a lineup perspective there are a couple of things we really can’t do, and a few others that we would like to do.
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Can’t play Udoka, Landen and Coleby at the same time. It’s just spacing death to put two of those guys on the floor at the same time. You basically have to have Svi, Bragg or Jackson at the 4 to make things work offensively.
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You don’t really want Graham and Mason sitting at the same time. So that means you need to find 5 minutes of rest for each of them each half. Ideally, that means one of them comes out at the under 12 TV timeout, and then comes back in for the other after the under 8 timeout in the first half, then in the second half, one comes out at the under 16, then replaces the other after the under 12.
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You want to manage Bragg’s exposure to bruising guys. With Lucas, Udoka and Coleby around, there’s really no reason Bragg should be banging against some 6-10, 280 big man. The fact that there’s three of them means Bragg should never be matched up with a guy he’s giving up 30-40 pounds to.
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You want to avoid playing anyone more than 33 minutes on a regular basis. In blowouts, you really want to have the ability to get Graham and Mason out with 5+ minutes left - no need to put the extra wear on those guys. In close games, you will have to ride them for their ball handling, but if you’re up 15-18, you can monitor their minutes so they maybe only play 8-10 minutes each in the second half of a double digit game. That means playing Vick 20-25 minutes when games start getting a bit of cushion.
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You want your best lineup (currently Mason-Graham-Svi-Jackson-Bragg) to play at least 5 minutes together in each game. That lineup is a great run starting lineup because they can hit you with that 14-2 run that takes a close game and turns it into a double digit matchup.
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I might add for special defensive schemes, we might play box and 1 or triangle and 2 w/Vick. At least wear em down awhile.
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@justanotherfan said:
You want your best lineup (currently Mason-Graham-Svi-Jackson-Bragg) to play at least 5 minutes together in each game. That lineup is a great run starting lineup because they can hit you with that 14-2 run that takes a close game and turns it into a double digit matchup.
Our team is going to go on offensive blowout mode ALOT this year. We’re going to dominate teams on both ends of the court. It’ll be like a jail break.
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If I’m not mistaken, didn’t Duke win the championship playing four guards around Okafor?
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@HawkChamp I believe you’re correct. But, Coach Self won’t bet the house on playing that way. He will only use it as a weapon in certain cases, limited minutes.
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@jaybate-1.0 Im all for those non linear leaps in neural net connections. Fascinating stuff the brain is. Billions of connections and can be compared to the number of stars in the universe
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@drgnslayr solid post at #32. My main questions revolve around our bigs this year. Basically, how good of a rim protector will Bragg and Udoka be and will they be able to stay out of foul trouble.
We already know what our returning guys are going to bring and they should get better than last year.
Bragg will have an increase roll though. Will Bragg > Perry their sophomore seasons? Its unfair to compare Senior Perry to Sophomore Bragg. But I think Bragg may be a better soph.
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Based on what we have seen, the best and most likely lineup is: Mason, Graham, Jackson, Bragg and Lucas. Looking at how Lucas finished last season, I just don’t see him not starting. The lineup might change as the season goes by but I would put money that this is the lineup at the start of the season.
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I seriously doubt we ever see a KU line up (outside of garbage time) that doesn’t involve either Mason or Graham on the floor because KU doesn’t have a third PG on the roster worthy of important minutes. Svi’s ball handling abilities are good enough to be the second guy, but not lead guard against D1 competition. Vick was turnover probe last year so unless that’s improved over the summer, Vick shouldn’t be handling the ball in any capacity that a PG normally would.
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I think it is safe to say we will be improved in the post on defense. The question is “how much?”
Can Udoka aggressively defend without fouling? We shall see. I’m sure Bill will run plenty of ref’d scrimmages in the coming weeks with real officiating to see how our new guys do.
Will Bragg be able to hold his ground this year and be a better defender? He is bound to be better.
And Landen has improved every single year. This year he will be “the man” in our post. He has stepped up in his ownership role. Look at how improved he became on defense last year… I believe we will see an improved Landen this year, too.
So much of the responsibility falls on our guards. I believe, as others do, that Josh will soon surpass Wayne as a quality defender. All the help we can obtain from the perimeter will also help our post players by reducing their fouls on guards and shooting forwards.
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@drgnslayr think josh has already surpassed Selden on D.
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I’ll “defend” last year’s defense a bit.
Paraphrasing remarks made last year by an unnamed Big 12 assistant coach: “Ellis knows our plays better than our players do. We call the play and he’s at the right spot to defend it before we get going.”
I doubt many fans saw what never happened because Ellis prevented it beforehand.
Playing team defense probably requires more experience than playing team offense.
Josh may be a superior individual defender, but can he compensate for his lack of experience, or else learn at Embiid-like speed? I will gladly hope…
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@drgnslayr UA doesn’t need to defend without fouling this year. He’s just not going to play enough to need to play without fouling this year. LL probably plays 30 mpg or so this year so UA will probably play about 10 mpg this year which means he can play muscleball defense and make opponents regret venturing into the lane.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 no, playing good d without fouling is what I want to see. Don’t want to be giving up free throws unnecessarily. He just needs to keep his arms up and not be reaching for the ball, or anything like that. I see big guys do that way too much instead of staying vertical and forcing a tough shot over the top.
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@HawkChamp As big as UA is, his role is going to be to intimidate and keep people out of the lane. A couple of clean, hard fouls early on will make opponents think twice about journeying into the paint.
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I want to see him set a few hard picks!
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@Crimsonorblue22 Me too!! Kids a brick wall, with steel reinforcement. I dont think there is a Marcus Smart type player in the league this year…someone who I really want to see get knocked on his butt.
Man, that screen on Flopper by Kev Young was Epic. I’ll never forget that stuff!!
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@Lulufulu be a few preseason picks I’d like to see, hmmm wonder who?
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@ParisHawk Thirty- eight minutes is too many minutes per game for Frank and DeVonte, especially Frank. Coach Self, please tell me this is the year you limit our starting guards’ minutes, at least until the tournament. Every year, Coach Self admits he played Frank too many minutes. Please set the limit at 28 minutes per starting guard. We have plenty of quality minutes on the bench, so let’s use them. RCJH
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@stoptheflop Maybe you mistyped: I said 34 minutes each, not 38.
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30 minutes together
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4 minutes Frank without Devonte
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4 minutes Devonte without Frank
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2 minutes both sit
That makes 34 minutes of playing time for each.
This is a prediction, not a wish. My wish is for less. The only way I see my wish coming true is if we blow out a lot of teams.
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@ParisHawk I’m sorry if I misread your earlier comment. I would like to see Coach Self and staff place strict limits on the starting guards’ minutes, like the pitch limits in baseball and the 13 minute limit the Sixers are placing on our man, Embiid. Toward the end of each season Coach Self states he played certain players too many minutes. I know the players want to be in the game, but it’s up to the coaches to set limits. Frank’s minutes need to be reduced due to his aggressive style of play. I thought Vick could have picked up a lot more minutes in decided games last year. RCJH
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Rock Chalk! Time for some round ball…
The key for me to maximize the talent we have this season is the ability to insert more energy, aggressiveness and speed into the KU team for 40 full minutes. We have the experience and the depth to do it.
On D, pick up the opposing team full-court to apply some pressure to even get the ball up the court instead of falling back into half-court D. Do this for the entire game. A more container and controlled version of 40 min of hell.
Trap more and create havoc in the passing lanes. Take more risks on D by anticipating and improvising. Press a little from time to time but pressure a lot all the time. Get out on three point shooters and force the other time to beat us off the dribble. This team is very athletic and deep.
On O, unclog the lane and spread the hi-lo vertically and across the lane, using a smaller line up at times but also with Bragg and Lucas.
Let JJ create on his own sometimes to get used to it for later in the season. He is a slasher and will get to the rim at will. Our guards can all get to the rim at will and for this team we will win all the one-on-one match ups on the perimeter.
Yes, Bragg needs to play close to the basket but not as close as in the past. He is deadly from 10-12 and a good passer if the lane is not clogged. He needs to rebound and make bunnies and be more physical but not to bruise and overpower. Our other bigs can do that better.
Run and run and run, substitute more often and for shorter periods of time, as per the flow of the game. Coach Self always says he wants the team to play faster. This team is maybe the fastest and quickest since 2008.
Another conf title and a final four is in the making. I hope coach will turn them loose and let them play with reckless abandon more than years past. We do not need to ‘run our stuff’ to get the best shot on every possession.
Our D will be elite from day one which makes us very tough to beat, even on a bad night.
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@jayhawk-007 I agree about playing fast. If you watch the '08 team, they looked to run quite a bit - remember the concern was “Can they keep up with North Carolina?” We all know how that turned out. I disagree with those that say Self will hold them back. I’m just not convinced that he intentionally designs his game plan around playing a slow half court game. I think teams do a good job of getting back and preventing run outs, but there are still ways a team can get easy transition dunks. And with an athlete like JJ, we really need to utilize his athleticism and talent, something that was not done enough with Wiggins.
The good thing about Bragg is that teams will have to guard him to the three point line, just like Perry. The key for him will be if he has good enough handles to take his man one on one from the free throw line extended area. I think Bragg and his development is the most important part of this coming year, and the reason we will or won’t make the final four. Bill talks about Bragg needing to score inside more, and I think that can also mean driving into the lane like Perry, not necessarily a post up and hook shot. It will be interesting also to see Landon and what post moves he has this year.
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Yes, agreed. We need a little more dribble-drive on O and Bragg should be able to bounce it a pull up for a short jumper and also take it directly to the rim. JJ will be the one to do it best and most often.
In any case, our guards will beat our opponents off the dribble this year, and we will be able to stay in front of the elite guards as well, much better than the last few years. This is the most exciting thing about this year’s team.
One small criticism in a sea of great qualities which I might make about KU BB is that we have not always played to our athletic ability, rather than depending on the system to ‘run our stuff’ on O and play classic man-to-man on D. But the best teams always need someone to make a play on both ends of the court, not just play within the scheme.
I would like to see us play “take 'em” more than years past. We will see early on if indeed this is a good dribbling and passing team. But even if we are a good ‘move the ball passing team’, I would still like to see us try a little more ‘play ground’ ball and let our superior individual talent take over.
In the past, we have emphasized system offense and traditional defense with little room for improvisation and individual ‘make a play’ tolerance.
The result is sometimes at the end of the year, under the brightest lights, when one player has to step up, we tend to differ to “the system”. And we have not trained our alpha dogs to go ‘make a play’.
Some call this tendency to emphasize the play calling vs the individual improvisation as ‘over-coaching’. We will see if we can do both to take advantage of our system and our individual talent. Running the floor on offense (bring the ball us by running, not walking) and picking up the other team full court on defense will help us achieve this important evolution in style. We can sub more often and push the guys on the court more.
Thoughts?
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Iso/ hero ball doesn’t even work at the nba level (think Kobe). Good team play will destroy Iso ball everyday (GS Warriors). What we need are more alpha types. The '08 squad had rush, chalmers, Collins, and Darrell all of whom could, and did, go off for 30 pts in a game.
I guess what I’m saying is you don’t have to be selfish to score a ton even within Bills system. The trick is getting the players to recognize and take the good shots. As well as pass out of lower percentage shots.
No Hero needed this season. Graham, Mason, Bragg and Jackson will provide plenty of offense!
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@dylans we’re not really talking about iso ball, but rather instances where, for example, Bragg has the ball around the free throw line area or so. In essence, it is about can he exploit the matchup if a slower defender is on him? Can he put the ball on the floor in a similar fashion to Perry and score? Far from being iso/hero ball, this is an evaluation of a likely scenario, given that Bragg last year, when he was in the game, had the ball had numerous times in that same area. Making a one on one move is not necessarily Kobe Bryant selfish ball. Two different things
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@HawkChamp my comment was for @jayhawk-007, I didn’t even read your post. A game of Take 'Em is hero ball. =(ISO) isolation plays= one on one = take 'em it’s all the same thing. Yes our guys need to win one on one battles, but not if an open shooter is waiting that’s just selfish.
I don’t believe he (or she) is advocating for 100% hero ball, I just don’t want to see it more than a couple of times a game when there is an extreme matchup advantage like if the midget Forte is trying to guard Josh Jackson. But if a bad switch hasn’t been made I don’t wanna see ISO ball.
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Agreed, certainly not iso ball.
The issue for me is that we can become system dependent, and especially at the end of the year at crunch time, when we need an alpha dog to make a play on O or D, we tend to refer back to the system as per the coaching.
This is high percentage and should be done during the season and most of the time, but when you are in the tourney for example, and your best players only shoot 4-5-6 times in an entire game and you lose (sound familiar?), mostly I believe it is because we are trying to ‘run our stuff’ and we need to go make a play.
The last few years, our best players have been shut down by the opposing team’s ability to read and counter our offensive schemes. When that happens, especially in single elimination, someone has to make a play on O and D.
I think we do not train this mindset enough during the season and so when the time comes, our best players defer to the ‘team concept’ to get a basket or steal a pass.
Our best teams - at least for the dance - in '08 and '12 had players (Chalmers, Collins, Taylor) who would attack and take a risk on both sides of the ball - play to win, not just play not to lose.
Playing the percentages and great fundamentals and team work and hi-lo and fall back half-court tough man-to-man defense is excellent. And it teaches and is a winning formula for sure.
But, there comes a time at year end, when the guys have to not rely on the system or run our stuff or play half-court defense…my hope is that with this group of players, we will push the envelop earlier and more often, force the action, even if we make mistakes, turnovers, missed steals, etc.
I am thinking this is a year we can go all the way but our tourney woes might improve if we have - not iso - but 'take ‘em’ attack mode on both ends earlier in the year. We have the players to do it for 40 min per game.
