The worst trade ever?
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So it seems Love has decided to opt out of the last year of his contract? So what did The Cavs give to get the no-brainer trade? I believe Two players one named Wiggins and another 1st round pick? I wonder if the Cavs had it all over again would they make that trade again? Something tells me?? Hell no.
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I read that. I posted at the time that it was crazy to sign him for the remaining year with no assurances that he would re-sign. I wonder it this will send a signal that it is difficult ot play with LeBron…
The Cavs have other un-signed players including LeBron, and it is possible that the team might completely disintegrate. So glad that Wiggins got away from that mad house.
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Dumbest trade EVER !!!
As if the Bulls got rid of Pippen to replace Luc Longley with a better scorer, because Pippen played the wing opposite Jordan.
Stupidest logic ever.
Ownership ought to fire itself.
Hypothesis: the only reason for the trade was LBJ was Nike and Wigs was Adidas.
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Apples and oranges…
Jordan and Pippen played different positions, Jordan played SG and some PG and Pippen played mostly forward and some SG and his position was often referred as point forward, They not only played different positions but they complimented each other extremely well and with Rodman, they were the core of the Glory years Bulls team.
Now, LeBron and Wiggins are offensive minded players that basically play the same position, although it could be argued that since LeBron plays all 5 positions he plays the same position as everybody else in the team. LeBron and Wiggins do not have games that complement each other, they have games that overlap and would have created conflict and would have placed young Andrew Wiggins in an untenable situation No conspiracies in that transaction; the only stupid thing was not to secure LeBron and Love to contracts longer than one year…that part was truly wishful thinking (that they would re-up) and utterly dumb…although in all fairness, if Cleveland would have won the title, there is a good chance they both re-sign…after all victory has many parents and defeat is an orphan.
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Not a dumb trade, honestly.
We are assuming Wiggins turns into Pippen (i.e., one of the best 15 players in the league). Right now he is nowhere close to that. Maybe one day, but that day isn’t today, and likely won’t be next season, either.
If Love’s shoulder isn’t separated, Cleveland might just have won the title. Any trade that puts you in that position is not dumb. Cleveland was on the doorstep of a title. If they win it and Love opts out, they still all get rings and a banner.
This actually puts Cleveland in a good spot. Love moves on, they re-sign Thompson, Mozgov is already back, they have Lebron and Kyrie. JR Smith wants to come back. Shumphert will be back. That’s a solid core right there. Love frees up cap space that they can use on others.
Did the trade work out the way Cleveland hoped? But for a faulty shoulder and a bad knee, it may have. You make that kind of trade to win a title. It failed in the sense that they didn’t win a title, but they lost a title because they were reduced to their backup PG, backup PF, a SG that could barely lift his arms and a decimated bench. And the Finals still went six games.
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Draft day trade, if my memory and spelling, serves correctly, Scottie Pippen for Olden Polynice. Might have been the worst ever.
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@JayHawkFanToo LeBron and Wiggins do not play the same position. LeBron is a better version of Magic Johnson. He is a PG with a PF’s body. Andrew Wiggins is not a point forward like LBJ. Those two players would’ve complimented each other very well and AW’s defense would’ve really helped Cleveland in the playoffs this year. It was a bad trade for Cleveland, but that’s why Cleveland won’t win a title.
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So…what players would Wiggins be replacing in the Cavaliers roster?
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Thanks for your post… I’ve been saying that for a long time now. It is actually possible that LeBron and Wigs could have shared the floor together and could have been a dominant force… especially when throwing in a healthy Irving. Love never fit that team.
Cleveland blew it. But… whats new? Can they really claim they are jinxed when they are just plain stupid? I guess you can blame your stupidity on a jinx…
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@drgnslayr wigs was better off w/a real coach! Not player coach manager, LBJ.
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Totally agree… the trade was bad for the Cavs… GREAT for Wigs! He’ll continue building his game and it won’t be long before a team is built around him with the right guys capable in the playoffs. This current period is good for his soul and character.
The last guy I worry about is Wigs. His character and mind are BOTH sound… something RARE in the NBA!
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@drgnslayr I just don’t care for the cav’s! Don’t care what they do!
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LeBron and Wiggins do play the same postilion. Both are listed as a combination of SG and SF although, and as I have mentioned before, LeBron does play all positions. Here is a link for your enjoyment…
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There are almost no NBA analysts who think that Kevin Love is going to play for any team other than the Cavs next year. Opting out is a charade. It is strictly for business. Those who can opt out including LeBron simply want to sign 2 year deals and probably with the same teams. The big money is going to come in the 2017 season when a new TV contract will kick in. At that point a max deal now will seem like chump change.
The CBA also expires in 2017 and the players want to get more than the 51% that they get now. No one is going to sign big free agency contracts now. Any agent who would recommend signing big now should be shot.
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“Compliment” is a good word.
“Complement” is a good word too.
If we keep on using one for the other, we shall soon have one clumsy word instead of two good ones.
“Compliment” and “complement” complement each other!
I’m not a grammar fascist. I don’t come here correcting every misspelling or grammar mistake, or trying to raise the subjunctive from the grave.
This is a case of usage, plain and simple. If we keep on using one word for the other, that usage will become “right”, and the language will be a tiny bit poorer because of it.
Let’s say I’m a “language ecologist”, trying to avoid erosion.
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@ParisHawk so, is this correct? I advise you not to give out advice on a sports blog. Jk Do French fries complement my burger? I’d appreciate any compliments you can dish out.
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Considering how auto correct works, it is amazing that we don’t see more of the weird stuff it sometimes comes up with…
BTW, “stranded” or “dangling” preposition are now acceptable and no longer taboo.
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My biggest grammar gripe are the “lose” and “loose” folks …simply drives me crazy to see people interchange those words…
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@JayHawkFanToo LeBron can be listed at whatever position you wanna list him at. He is is a PG in a forward’s body just like Magic. LeBron James is the best PG in the NBA today. LeBron has to have the ball in his hands because he runs the offense. That’s why it took awhile for LeBron and Kyrie to figure out how to play with each other and finally figured it out after the all star break. Andrew Wiggins is a pure 2 guard whose game perfectly compliments LeBron’s.
They can technically be listed at the same position all day long, but they do not play position on the court.
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@KUSTEVE mine is shit and shot! Typos!
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@Crimsonorblue22 btw, would love to see oubre go to my rockets…
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@KUSTEVE didn’t think he would be this low!
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@Crimsonorblue22 dang it, the hawks got him. good for kelly…
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Nah, not the worst trade ever. Getting rid of Babe Ruth set Boston back 8 decades…
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Of course, Wigs and LBJ would have played together this season just as Jordan and Pippen did, so it is not only apples and apples, but honey crisps and honey crisps.
What the idiot Cavs should’ve done was trade Irving for a solid journeyman footer to go with their heavy footed Luc Longley back up and another journeyman point guard tough on defense, which they could have easily netted with Irving.
Irving is a fine player, but he can’t hold Lebron’s jock, nor Wigs’ jock, as an all time great.
Irving is just one of many, many good back court players in the NBA.
Lebron is a once in a 2-3 decade player. Wigs probably will be, too.
The Bulls all ready proved the model.
Seriously, you don’t want to defend this trade even for a second.
Trust me.
Phil Jackson was laughing his butt off at Cav management the minute he heard about the trade. Phil probably said something like, “Whew, now I don’t have to worry about that new Cav coach getting on a run and breaking catching my total ring number.”
I mean, seriously, Red Auerbach is probably sitting with god in heaven and howling at the top of his lungs.
DUMBEST.
TRADE.
EVER.
BY.
AN.
ORDER.
OF.
MAGNITUDE.
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OMG!
Not a dumb trade?
Red Auerbach’s cigar just came flying out of his mouth from busting a gut laughing.
Wilt and Alex Hannum and Bill Sharman are literally doubled over roaring.
I bet Bill Russell is STILL horse laughing right here on earth.
And Oscar Robertson? OMG! Oscar is doing one of the glares he does when talking about how unflipping believably low basketball has sunk both at the playing and management levels.
This trade was BAAAAAAD.
This trade was Leonard Pinth-Garnell BAAAAAD!
This trade was so dumb that Jim Carrey is probably going to make another sequel to Dumb and Dumber in which he and Jeff Daniels play the Cav’s owner and GM.
How dumb was it?
Ed McMahon is shouting “HEYOOOOOOOOOH” in heaven.
This trade was sooooooo dumb that Dave Letterman will come back and Lebron will bring the Cav’s owner and GM on to do a stupid pet trick of reenacting the trading of Wiggins!!!
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@jaybate-1.0 In all fairness Wiggins was an unknown commodity at the time that had a habit of disappearing in college games. The Cavs were freaked out LeBron would opt out and leave again so win now trumped any thoughts of long term sustainable success. Stupid, but common.
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In all fairness, everyone agreed he was the greatest athletic freak to come along in basketball since Lebron.
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"Irving is just one of many, many good back court players in the NBA."
Seriously? Do you actually follow the NBA?
ESPN ranked him the #23 overall player and the #5 PG guard. He used to be the #3 behind Chris Paul and Russell Westbrooke, but now Curry and Wall are ahead, because of Irving’s injuries. Even with injuries he not only made the All-Star team this past season but was the game’s MVP as well. At full strength he is likely top 3.
Kyrie Irving has averaged at least 18 points per game and 5 assists per game in each of his first three seasons. Only Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, LeBron James, Grant Hill and Steve Francis have accomplished that feat.
With Irving healthy, the Cavs probably win the Title; with Love and Varejao healthy they probably sweep the Warriors.
BTW, Phil Jackson should be laughing at himself and the piss-poor team he assembled in New York that finished last in the weak Eastern Conference with a record even worse that the 76ers, and at 17-65 (.207), the worst in franchise history; the previous year before Jackson they finished 37-45 (.451).
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6-3 and 193.
Seriously.
I do.
Every year there is another Kyrie Irving, maybe every second year.
Lebron comes along once every 20-30 years.
Wigs comes along once every 10-20 years, maybe even once every 30 years, since he just coasted for the year at KU, and then exploded on the NBA as a kid, still.
Seriously, do you watch the NBA?
With all due respect, it doesn’t seem like it.
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@JayHawkFanToo said:
Phil Jackson should be laughing at himself and the piss-poor team he assembled in New York
Maybe a little refresher on Phil might help.
Career highlights and awards As player:
2× NBA champion (1970, 1973) NBA All-Rookie First Team (1968) 2× First-team Division II All-American (1966–1967) As head coach:
11× NBA champion (1991–1993, 1996–1998, 2000–2002, 2009–2010) 4× NBA All-Star Game head coach (1992, 1996, 2000, 2009) NBA Coach of the Year (1996) Top 10 Coaches in NBA History
HOWLING!
Doesn’t Phil even get a chance to build a team?
Does he have to ring out every season?
HOWLING!
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@jaybate-1.0 If that was true he truly was a huge disapointment. Glad I didn’t lump him into the best since LeBron hype.
I’m just saying there is an element of risk and he doesn’t wow you with confidence. Nice kid, glad he was a band-aid on what should’ve been a terrible year for KU.
Too bad you’re not an NBA exec. You obviously have a supreme eye for talent.
I wouldn’t have traded Wiggins for no defense Love myself.
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As a good friend of mine used to say…if you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with the bull…
Nice try trying to change the subject. I agree that Phil Jackson was a great coach and a serviceable player…I did not say he wasn’t, did not even mention him in that capacity, but when it comes to trades we are not talking about Phil Jackson Coach or player or boyfriend of team’s owner daughter or player that got chased around the court by opposing player… we are talking about Phil Jackson - General Manager.
Why don’t you cite Phil Jackson’s record as GM with New York? Wait…I did and it sucks…
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He wasn’t a disappointment at all, if you hypothesize that his management made sure he coasted to minimize injury risk and simply disappeared that last game when it was perhaps clear that Embiid was not returning and so there was no realistic chance of winning a ring. At that point, hypothetically speaking, the key thing was to end the season and injury risk as soon as possible; then come out and take the NBA by storm, right?
Wigs is a great player.
IMHO he just saved it for when the pay checks started.
If we could imagine Lebron coming along today and having to play a season in D1, I have a hunch Lebron would have had almost an identical showing as Wigs had. Two show case scoring games, and a lot of coasting and working on some defensive fundamentals. Don’t you?
Wouldn’t it be stupid for Lebron to turn it on and risk a draft and career threatening injury in an OAD season, when he was likely to make the kind of money he now makes?
I am guessing we will see Wig’s career track somewhere between Lebron’s and Michael’s in terms of career accomplishments. Or maybe just a little less. Its hard to say. It depends on whether Wigs can get out of Minnesota and get to a major market and a great coach, or a great owner. Jordan had Jackson. Lebron had Riley. If Lebron were smart, he would be playing for Phil very shortly in the Big Apple. He could win five or six rings there and become rich enough to write a check for an NBA franchise when he’s done. New York is the promised land for endorsering superstars.
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You know, I was going to say the same about your posts today, which have kind of deteriorated from your recent stuff. I was being polite. I just figured I would cut you some slack under the assumption that you were having some personal, or career problems.
But since you said it, well, I reckon there’s no harm.
Your friend was talking about you.
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So predictable. This thread is deteriorating…I am out.
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@jaybate-1.0 said:
He wasn’t a disappointment at all, if you hypothesize that his management made sure he coasted to minimize injury risk and simply disappeared that last game when it was perhaps clear that Embiid was not returning and so there was no realistic chance of winning a ring. At that point, hypothetically speaking, the key thing was to end the season and injury risk as soon as possible; then come out and take the NBA by storm, right?
Not a winners attitude.
Wigs is a great player.
Wiggins is a great athlete and elite defender. He did little other than draw attention to make the team better on offense.
IMHO he just saved it for when the pay checks started.
Loser attitude. I wouldn’t draft a kid that I honestly thought did that.
If we could imagine Lebron coming along today and having to play a season in D1, I have a hunch Lebron would have had almost an identical showing as Wigs had. Two show case scoring games, and a lot of coasting and working on some defensive fundamentals. Don’t you?
No. I watched LeBron compete hard against H.S. competion. And then compete hard the next year against NBA competition. I just watched him play his heart out with little chance of winning in the finals. I doubt he would slack off his one season of college, it’s not in his character.
Wouldn’t it be stupid for Lebron to turn it on and risk a draft and career threatening injury in an OAD season, when he was likely to make the kind of money he now makes?
Once again competitors have the heart of a lion and don’t quit. Maybe coast a few games or parts of games, but not during crunch time. Not ever when it counts.
I am guessing we will see Wig’s career track somewhere between Lebron’s and Michael’s in terms of career accomplishments.
Wow. That’s pre-mature, but would be awesome. I hope he has as much sucess as Paul Pierce.
Or maybe just a little less. Its hard to say. It depends on whether Wigs can get out of Minnesota and get to a major market and a great coach, or a great owner. Jordan had Jackson. Lebron had Riley. If Lebron were smart, he would be playing for Phil very shortly in the Big Apple. He could win five or six rings there and become rich enough to write a check for an NBA franchise when he’s done. New York is the promised land for endorsering superstars.
Phil = genius
New York of late = putrid mess
Lebron’s domination of the NBA years left +/_ 3.5 doubt he wants to waste it in that mess. It would take a heck of a package deal. PG and big to complement LBJ.
Money to be made in NY huge
LeBron just desires to be liked. I doubt he spurns Cleveland again, unless there is no hope of a championship. Last I heard he wanted Mario back, but Cle drafted a pg.
Get Wiggins to a good team with a good coach and we’ll see how he flourishes. I hope he does us all proud.
Andrew’s WAR stat is the lowest among ROYs in recent memory. Please don’t compare Wigs to Jordan. It was unfair to compare Wigs to LeBron. It was unfair to compare LeBron to Jordan. Just let him be the best Andrew Wiggins he can be.
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@JayHawkFanToo Phil Jackson inherited a team with the worst cap situation in the league. The Knicks are not a 1 year project to fix. Isiah Thomas and James Dolan completely screwed the franchise over. Without interference from Dolan, it’s going to take another 2-3 years to clear out the terrible contracts the Knicks have on the books.
You cannot fairly judge the job Phil Jackson has done yet because it is still a work in progress that has multiple years left before we’ll see what kind of team Phil can really assemble if he’s even there long enough. Dumping Smith and Shumpert helps, but there’s still a long ways to go in that rebuilding process.
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Yes, he inherited a marginal team made it worse; they went from 37-45 (.451) to 17-65 (.207) and worst record in the history of the Franchise and second worse record in the NBA.
Stephen Smith at ESPN does not think much of Phil Jackson either…
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Shumpert started and JR Smith was the top bench player who played 35 MPG for the Cavaliers and helped them get to the NBA finals. Maybe getting rid of them was not such a good move considering that Shumpert had a relatively low cost contract.
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U r cracking me up with Phil NOT being a genius. HOWLING!
Of course the OADS dog it in D1! U r cracking me up again. OAD stands for “over all dogging”!
Lebron would have taken a Siesta in D1 under current circumstances. U never would have drafted him! Howling!
Omg! Wigs could easily turn out better than MIJOR!!! Wigs is soooooo young and has played semi hard only one season. He is clearly still avoiding injury and not going 100% until the first free agent contract! He will super nova after his next contract. Everyone in the NBA gets the game. The Cavs traded him because they knew he wouldn’t light the candle till the second contract and because of the Adidas/Nike clash. Father Wigs has this opera doped out. Andrew plays for money only. Andrew plays big for big money only!
Elementary, baby!!!
Lebron just wants to be liked? HOWLING! U r like the next Chris Rock!!! U r crAcking me up.
Imagine what a genius Phil will become when he picks up Lebron!
Unless Cavs ownership threatens to give Lebron’s extended family zinc acid bathes over the casino bidness, LBJ ----> NYC ASAP!
Everything has changed but the way we think.–paraphrasing AE.
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I just read the whole thread and want to get back to the most important topic initially addressed by @ParisHawk GRAMMAR!
My biggest pet peave is the last 15 years is people saying “can I” instead of “may I.” If I asked my librarian mother “can I do such and such?” She would respond “yes, you have the ability to do such and such!”
I’ve even spoken to several high school teachers and they’ve said to let it go. I even went on the Google and there are plenty of articles saying can/may are interchangeable.
Argh! I guess that’s what happens when you legalize pot. Can replaces may. Cats and dogs living together…total hysteria!!!
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@VailHawk I always use can, as am I able? May, I’m asking for permission.
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@JayHawkFanToo What were Shumpert and Smith doing in New York? Franchises in total rebuild mode typically get worse before they get better. My Astros are now seeing the fruits of staying the course of a total rebuild. The Royals are now reaping those benefits. The 76ers are currently in the middle of that process. A total rebuild job in the NBA is 3-4 year process because of the length of contracts.
Then you cite a guy who only knows how to do two things, yell and complain. There is a reason I quit watching First and Ten (I know it’s First Take now) and that is because of Stephen A. Smith because he turned the show into a yelling match.
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@jaybate-1.0 said:
U r cracking me up with Phil NOT being a genius. HOWLING!
I said he was a genius. He knows talent and how to coach it to championships.
Of course the OADS dog it in D1! U r cracking me up again. OAD stands for “over all dogging”!
I said I doubted LeBron would dog it much. He’s too much of a competitor. Michael didn’t take many days off. I would expect the next MJ or LBJ to not take days off either. I’m well aware of lazy athletes coasting on talent and reputaion.
Lebron would have taken a Siesta in D1 under current circumstances. U never would have drafted him! Howling!
Doubt it.
Omg!
are you at 16 year old girl? I thought you were an ancient male.
Wigs could easily turn out better than MIJOR!!!
He could, but it would be with a great deal of effort and luck. It won’t be easy. No one else has been as good as MJ since MJ.
Wigs is soooooo young and has played semi hard only one season.
I don’t think you are giving his effort enough credit. He will get better and he will learn how to give more, but I doubt he’s half assing it.
He is clearly still avoiding injury and not going 100% until the first free agent contract! He will super nova after his next contract.
After he is finally physically mature and understands the game. He will like most players peak in years 4-10. Ages 22 (freak athletes) to 24 normal NBA calibre athletes is usually the beginning of the peak years.
Everyone in the NBA gets the game. The Cavs traded him because they knew he wouldn’t light the candle till the second contract and because of the Adidas/Nike clash. Father Wigs has this opera doped out. Andrew plays for money only. Andrew plays big for big money only!
I go to my job for money too. I get satisfaction out of it, but I wouldn’t show up if I wasn’t paid.
Elementary, baby!!!
Lebron just wants to be liked? HOWLING! U r like the next Chris Rock!!! U r crAcking me up.
It’s an over-simplification that I thought you could follow given your deep introspect into various other topics. Thanks, but why in the world would he want to go back to Cleveland if it’s not to be liked again? being liked makes him millions. Pages could be written, but I don’t have the time.
Imagine what a genius Phil will become when he picks up Lebron!
His coach will look better too.
Unless Cavs ownership threatens to give Lebron’s extended family zinc acid bathes over the casino bidness, LBJ ----> NYC ASAP!
Umm, ok.
Everything has changed but the way we think.–paraphrasing AE.
I’m not sure how I got sucked into this production, but all I really wanted to throw out there is: A year ago at this time Cleveland just got LeBron back and was in win today mode. They had just whiffed on their previous #1 overall pick and we’re seemingly gunshy. So trade a realitively unknown (will be starter level, but will he be an all-star?) for an all-star. If you have one year to get it done it’s easy to freak out. They panicked. I don’t support the move and wish Andrew was playing with LeBron. But I understand why they did it.
I am not as eloquent nor willing to invest as much time as you’re able to be. Sorry if this too misses the mark. I must now go and begin to remove my shingles.
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I think you miss the mark on OAD’s taking plays or games off. I see your point but none of these OAD’s wants to be the one that loses it all because they got hurt in their lone season in college ball. So much of their draft potential is indeed based off potential anyways. Get hurt and you fall like a boulder off the side of a cliff.
I have no doubt LeBron would have taken plays and games off. He would have no choice. With agents, financial backers, sponsors, and shoe companies. You do what you your told to do. And who could blame them? Why gamble millions and a secure, set life for the off chance of winning a Championship in College.
I know we love the story about the competitor that does it for the love of the game, for his pride. However this isn’t the yesteryears. Where kids went to college because they always wanted to be a Jayhawk, Wildcat, and so on. It’s all business.
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No wonder the U.S. is full of loosers. No work ethic anymore and it’s widely accepted.
Well that doesn’t cut it for me, my family, or employees. I especially appreciate a player like Travis Releford or Tyrell Reed both of whom worked their tails off. Ben McLemore showed up at least 80% of the time. Not all OADs are lazy, but give me 3-4 year guys all day long.
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“Argh! I guess that’s what happens when you legalize pot. Can replaces may. Cats and dogs living together…total hysteria!!!”
Loved the grammar lesson today! Seems this thread needs to go in a more positive direction. So MAYbe I CAN help…
I think you are on to something inferring that legalizing pot has facilitated people turning “MAY” into “CAN.” Think of it this way… before pot was legal in Coloradical, the magic word was CAN’T! For some reason, we of the English language never got around to creating the word MAYN’T. I’m not sure why… because there doesn’t seem to be a logical reason why we MAY NOT use MAYN’T in our grammar.
You MAY need to show patience reading through my tangential thought process. Okay… so… in actuality, CAN has come to replace CAN’T in the Coloradical vocabulary. MAY has been permanently erased because it came up short without MAYN’T.
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@KUSTEVE Those people are a bunch of loosers.
