All in on Brown
-
@FarSideHawk I agree too. Big Greeks good.
-
@justanotherfan If Greene isn’t playing, sure. There is room for 5 and only 5 perimeter players in the rotation.
-
@HighEliteMajor, @FarSideHawk , and @joeloveshawks
I agree that if Brown comes, it tightens the rotation.
My issue is that Brown is better than Mack, and likely better than Svi, Greene and Selden, which means that Brown will likely make next year’s team better than what we currently have.
Mack is a nice player. He can definitely shoot it, handles it adequately, decent athlete, etc.
But is there any guarantee he isn’t Andrew White III at the collegiate level?
Watch
AWIIIand then
Mack, and tell me how we know Mack won’t be White. Both good players, but we know what White was at KU.I’m not saying Mack can’t be more. I’m just saying that we have recently had a player at KU that is very similar to him in build (White was 6-6, 195 out of high school. Mack is 6-7, 200), ranking (both ranked 48 in their class by ESPN) and game (perimeter shooting wing players). If I have to choose between Mack and Brown, it’s not really a choice.
-
Brown is likely gone to Michigan as the family connection looks legit.
Mack would be great depth for any situation and a body to throw into Korea as we will be lacking them. Probably the only safe recruit that won’t scare our 2 off.
-
@justanotherfan Ah, you are being tempted by the OAD Kool-Aid.
-
If we’re going to recruit another?? I want another big.
Last year our paint play was such an eye sore. If KU’s motto is to go inside per HCBS then lets get another big. After all we have enough perimeter players.
-
@justanotherfan I don’t think we have seen the last of AW3 in the college game. To me he is a casualty of the OAD craze. He could have been a 4 year or 5 year player with a red shirt who we all loved and talked about like Releford. Instead we got Wiggins and Oubre who were obviously too hard for him to deal with when Greene was part of the same mix.
It is hard for me to argue that Wiggins was not a great sign. We may have lost in the 2nd round to Stanford the one year he was at KU but the kid is already a legit stud in the NBA and could be part of the reason guys like Bragg and Diallo want to come to KU. But that is the only presumed OAD example I can say I am happy with. You can’t count JoJo as he was not supposed to be an OAD. Same with B Mac. Those just happened to come together in one year. But Selby, Xavier and Oubre don’t do a whole lot for me. I’ll take a AW3 type player or a Releford or Russ Robinson any day of the week over those guys.
All that said, I am excited about Diallo and I know that the OAD kids are simply part of the new normal. They are not going anywhere until (or if) the rules change. I have to get used to it but I will still always hope that we have 4 year guys like Perry Ellis more often than 1 year guys like Xavier Henry.
-
@BeddieKU23 Wiggins family connection to FSU was legit.
-
@joeloveshawks I’d never put aw3 in the same shoes as Releford. Loved the D and intensity he played w/!
-
@JayHawkFanToo Snacks likes “certain” types of fudge brownies…Maybe while Norm went eastcoast, and Selfie went south to the Gulf states, Snacks went west to the Colorado Rockies vicinity…
-
I just want to see our latest 2 McD acquisitions actually play at the college level in Bill’s system. Part of me is really excited to get these kids, and part of me is dreading the dumbed-down offense and 3 quick fouls on a frosh big (ala Shady and TRob).
ESPN described Diallo as needing a lot of work offensively in half court sets. As in needing A back to basket move…Although he did win the MVP trophy in the McD game, and that’s against pretty decent competition. (2yr player)
Bragg, the other McDAA, self-described himself as a bundle of nerves before the McD game. (2-4yr player)
Zimmerman looked pretty slow, and Diallo went right by him more than once. 7ft playdoh.
When has Bill Self done anything great with ANY freshmen? Other than Cole’s Miracle 10min vs. PsychoT of UNC? Cole barely played as a frosh, and most of those 35 wins by the 08 guys were from tough, veteran upperclassmen, 2 Jr McDs (Rush, Chalmers), and 2 soph McDs (Arthur, Collins).
-
Chek Deallo @ChekDeallo · 37m37 minutes ago
Does anyone know when Jaylen Brown commits?
-
@ralster I think Wiggins counts. Sure he could have let him loose on more than one occasion but Wigs broke records at KU that likely wont be broken again any time soon.
P.S. Dont think we need Jaylen for the season. Sure he would be nice to have over seas
-
That being said, I fully expect Wayne Selden to play as a Jr like the McD that he is. Time to count him as one again.
Svi isn’t transferring anywhere due to Greene’s hiatus. Perry may play a bit at the 3, and as the “skilled” stretch-4.
We may not play with a true 5. Arthur and DJackson were 2 starting 4s. Kaun was a 5 of the bench, while Cole was busy high-fivin’ the walkons like Spoonie…
-
@Lulufulu Agree on Wiggins, but Self and the program didn’t get very far with Wiggins’ team. That’s really not on Wiggins. But there wasn’t much chemistry on that squad, nor much defense (other than Wiggins & Selden).
What I meant was, make a F4 run with frosh playing major minutes? Aint seen it yet in the history of Bill Self. (Not dogging Self, but making a point about his most dangerous teams being experienced AND tough, neither attribute attaches well to frosh.
-
@ralster Good point. They totally underachieved that year, and last year. Not sure if Coach Self could go 38-1 like Cal did at UK with 9 presumed OAD/TADs. I think he needs more of a balance. Talent high level athletes with experienced upperclassmen. Im guessing most on here would agree with that.
We dont need Jaylen Brown at this point. We are good. If he happens to pick KU then fine. He is a very good player, we’ll take him. But it will alienate Svi and Brannen and possibly Selden in the process. In those 3 guys we have 3 very good wings. Id take Junior Selden over Frosh Brown any day and thats what we got. Brown comes to KU we risk losing one of our 3 more experienced guys then we are down even more experience the next season when Brown bails for the League.
-
@ralster that changes this year! If Embiid wasn’t hurt, I feel strongly we would have seen 2 Frosh get us to final 4.
-
@Lulufulu well Svi, Selden and BG better pull their heads out and play!
-
OK Buckets! I have my stuff in place to figure out who’s going to fill our remaining scholarship? Jaylen Brown, Tevin Mack, or Georgios Papagiannis. I know some of you are hopeful we get Mack because there is a far less chance someone leaves KU for Bluer skies. I also know there are some of you that would trade our 11 straight BIG 12 titles for another championship season. I want another championship NOW so bring on Brown force a medical rs on Greene and add Georgios Papagiannis. LETS DO THIS!!!
-
F – Chieck Diallo
F – Carlton Bragg
G 0 Frank Mason III
G 1 Wayne Selden, Jr.
G 4 Devonte Graham
G 10 Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk
G 14 Brannen Greene
F 31 Jamari Traylor
F 33 Landen Lucas
F 34 Perry Ellis
F 42 Hunter Mickelson
Unless I missed someone KU should have 2 scholarships left. So sign both players with no regrets!
-
If UK played in the Big 12, ACC or Big 10 he does not go unbeaten in conference play. He almost lost a couple of games in the weak SEC.
-
@HighEliteMajor "If Brown comes to Kansas, then what is the fallout? Greene transfers or redshirts? Svi leaves?
How in the world does a player of the caliber of Svi or Greene risk being the 6th perimeter guy (odd man out)?".
We signed Bragg a while back. We just about crapped our britches worrying about Diallo but no ones going OMG what about Mickelson, Lucas, or Traylor? I believe we call it depth.
-
I guess there were no decent “brownie” loving prospects available…
-
I’m loving this get on a few levels. KU gets back into the face of the neg nancy media analysts, and we just stole two highly coveted UK recruits…If that doesn’t make you celebrate, you’re dead.
-
@Statmachine This is a good problem. I see Greene taking a med redshirt, Svi getting some good pt, and Brown will likely jump. It’s a win win win. Svi and Greene had their chance to leave. They stayed. They bought into Self’s system. If you want a NC, you do what the coach says, especially if he already has a NC and 11 rings. If either Greene or Svi leave, this will tell us quite a bit about them. I don’t see them leaving. This team has grown together and are sacrificing for the team.
-
@dylans I think you got it. Let’s give one to Brown, and keep that extra for something special or just take it into next season.
-
@Statmachine Bring it on home cause UDAMAN @Statmachine !!
-
Other than Wiggins, and Sherron, Self’s best McDs have been ones with 2+ yrs in-system.
-
@ralster was Embiid?
-
I like the lineup with …
Mason, Graham and Selden at the two most critical spots 1 and 2.
They can support and give Brown some great experience. I’m sure Greene and Svi will do their part to teach him.
Ellis and Traylor can school Bragg at the 4.
Lucas and Mick can school Diallo at the 5.
I like our mix of experience and classmen. It’s a great fit.
Of course, it only works if we land Brown. If not, Svi is working hard.
-
My goodness there is a TON of Jaylen Brown to KU chatter in the twitterverse! I’m starting to believe guys I really am!
-
I don’t have it locked in on when he will commit like I did on Cheick but I will do my best!
-
If he only would be a Catholic HS player like Bragg and Diallo, it would be a done deal…
-
@Statmachine Once again, the “experts” are already steering Brown to Michigan. I can’t believe the bias. I guess KU is incapable of landing 3 top McDs AA at this point. It’s almost as if we have our limit and exceeded what people think is possible for KU.
Yet, if this were any other program…Puke, UNC, UK, Zona, or any other top program, it would be broadcasted all over the sports media. You don’t see much about Diallo to KU like Ingram to Puke. Hell, even on KU sports page, they had Ingram to Puke as the first headline and Diallo was the second.
Now I want Brown to spite the media. I want them to scratch their heads and ask how in the world Bill Self got the best of the recruiting world.
-
HELL, YES, WE NEED JAYLEN BROWN.
AND JAYLEN BROWN NEEDS TO PLAY WITH THE ROTATION WE’VE GOT EMERGING!!!
JAYLEN, LISTEN UP.
IF YOU WERE A BIG LUG WITHOUT A LOT OF SKILL, AND WITH A TON OF CONSONANTS IN YOUR NAME…
OR IF YOU WERE A TEENY LITTLE POINT GUARD THAT LIKES TO SHOOT 38 FOOTERS…
THEN HELL YEAH I WOULD SAY GO TO ANN ARBOR AND SHOVEL THE F!@#$%^&ING SNOW!
AND COUNT TUMORS ON FISH IN THE HURON RIVER!!!
BUT IF YOU’RE COOL, SOPHISTICATED, PRETTY SHOOTING FORWARD THAT THE GIRLS CAN’T GET ENOUGH OF, AND YOU WANT TO FOLLOW IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF THE BRANDON RUSH, XAVIER HENRY, ANDREW WIGGINS AND KELLY OUBRE, THEN JOIN THE “RIGHT WAY” PARTY SHAPING UP IN THE CRADLE OF COLLEGE BASKETBALL AND 3MAN-U AND SIGN ON THE DOTTED LINE!!!
I wouldn’t be surprised if you sign to go along Carlton Bragg and Cheick Diallo that Labissiere will de-commit to UK and come up to Larry Land to win a ring. Labissiere has to have figured out that after the last two seasons, Coach Cal is last year’s lapels.
-
I don’t know spit about Mack.
Question: can he put it on the deck?
AWIII seemed deck-challenged.
If Mack is deck literate to go along with a trey gun, then he could help us.
-
If I remember correctly Brown’s mother took a liking to Kansas even going as far to liken it to Michigan where some of their family resides. That is a serious risk because it’s completely makes sense for his parents to relocate to combine with more family to relish his lone season in college. Bragg, Ingram, & Brown all talked packaging after their Late Night visits. Now you can’t blame Ingram for sliding into Winslow spot at Duke and basking in his home state glory. Brown on the other hand already has the NBA body & all around game to make an imposing impact as our BIG wing. If I’m self I’m selling the kid on traveling to Canada, South Korea(WUG), Champions Classic, Maui( Maui Invitational), San Diego around Christmas way better than Michigan Tundra. Not to mention being apart and continuing the streak of BIG12 Titles in our pursuit of knocking off UCLA from the top of the record books at 13. He dropped UCLA from his list just recently. IMO Jaylen is using the Nike schools to keep the publicity train moving to maintain his BRAND and relevance. My hope is since he is an Adidas lean he is just showing Michigan some love since some in his family hold it dear to heart and it’s good publicity for them either way to be involved with such a high profile recruit. That leaves Kansas with a huge opportunity to use this momentum with Bragg and Diallo to close him. It’s the same package minus Ingram who really plays the same position as Brown. So this package actually works out better for all in end if the cards fall that way. Pie in the sky talk especially after being as fortunate to land two STUDS at the bigs position. For all those flaking on the OAD… More talent on the team equals fiercer competition. Which will result in a better product on the court!! Always has Always will
-
I like this article. Finally, something realistic.
Come on Jaylen…help us win #12 and another NC.
As a bonus, scroll down and you have “Paul Pierce, a hockey fan”?
-
@truehawk93 they didn’t even know that Thorne has signed?
-
@Statmachine Im thinking its a very real possibility that Mickelson transfers. Doubtful he sees the court this season.
-
What a legitimate OAD looks like:
It’s not often you see NBA moves in a high school kid.
-
@Lulufulu it’s to bad too! He should go to Washburn or a d 2 school and dominate!
-
The Big 12 is a tough place to play and with Smart in Texas it will only get worse (better). Depth may not seem affective because we only play 8 or 9 players but we could have used some strong depth at the end of this season and last because of injuries. I say swing for the fences and get all the strong depth we can get and develop.
With that said: Duke kicked a guy to the curb to land playing time for Ingram, I don’t see Bill Self’s character doing something like that, but he has a good record of red shirting and managing kids leaving.
-
@Statmachine It is depth. However, Traylor/Lucas/Mickelson aren’t Svi and Greene, from a talent perspective. That is what I’m referring to. High talent guys sitting don’t sit well, so to speak. It’s why CF transferred. It’s why AW3 transferred.
I would suggest that our lower talent threesome are a different type of discussion. And if one transferred or left, if they could, we wouldn’t have any concerns with it.
Svi or Greene, I think, would be much different.
Good work on the updates during the recruiting. Really appreciated.
-
AW3 will play at Nebraska this season. I expect he will be a very solid player for the Huskers. AW3 is a good basketball player. My comments above were not meant to say that he isn’t a good player. He is absolutely a major college player, no doubt.
But he is not a difference maker. There are probably 30 guys from AW3’s own class that can contribute roughly what he will contribute to the Huskers next season. There are probably 25-40 guys every season that come in with a profile similar to AW3 (tall wing with some shooting ability). Every year, some of those guys blossom (hello, Ron Baker) and some tank. There’s no telling which will be which. I expect AW3 will have two strong years at Nebraska and will probably average double figures at least one season.
But I also think AW3 never would have started at KU and would have been a fringe rotation player at best, even if Wiggins and Oubre hadn’t come. He’s a solid player, not a great player. He might be able to start at Nebraska, but he’s not really a starting caliber player at Kansas.
The thing that worries me with Mack is that he is merely an average athlete on the wing. He doesn’t have a lot of pop or explosion in his game or his frame. When he drives, he can’t separate. That’s at the high school level. I’m guessing that will mean that he will struggle to drive at the collegiate level as well.
Watching his highlights, he has very few dunks. In the highlight I posted above, the very first clip is him dunking, but look at the dunk and remember that he is 6-7. His head barely gets to net level. He’s got long arms and that’s great, but he didn’t really elevate on that dunk. At the 0:24 mark, he hits a nice pull up jumper, but look at the lack of separation from the defense there. The next few highlights have him pushing the ball, but notice that he doesn’t have the speed to accelerate past most players. He’s merely keeping pace. In literally every dribble move you see, he doesn’t blow by guys. He just gets them off balance and pulls up. That air space will vanish in the Big XII and he will become just a spot up shooter.
Compare that to the Brown video that @drgnslayr posted. Brown literally explodes off the floor. The difference is stark. Also notice the number of different types of plays you see in the Brown highlight versus the Mack highlight. Just in the first minute you see a few alley oops, a couple of nice passes, some great drives finished with dunks, a nifty reverse layup, a couple of jumpers. Mack had mostly spot up jumpers and a few basic dribble moves, plus one blocked shot in his mix. At the 1:36 mark compare the head height on his dunk to the dunk that Mack executes. Brown is at least six inches higher than Mack got on his dunk. That difference in athleticism will be enormous on the defensive end.
The last couple of years we have been shaky defensively, but our OADs have been some of our better defenders. Wiggins was the best defender his year. Embiid was our best interior defender. Oubre was our best wing defender last year. Despite the OAD’s not living up to everything we hoped, they have brought it defensively and been solid teammates with the exception of Alexander and Selby’s eligibility issues.
I think Brown is the way to go. Mack would just be more of what we already have.
-
@justanotherfan Did you happen to watch AW3 in the first part of 2013-14? Did you review his stats during the time frame where he got regular minutes? I think he stacked up very well.
He was not a starter here for the same reason Traylor started … Self’s choice.
All that provides an insight into what Self is thinking. Traylor is a player that is way down on the talent food chain, and I would say flat out that he is bad most of the time. Yet Self started him.
If Wiggins wouldn’t have come to Kansas, AW3 would have been the starter.
The question is whether he could have become a Travis Releford player. I think he would have scored more, and been a lesser defensive player than Releford. But certainly a guy you could win a national title with at the 3.
It’s all speculation, to be sure. But I think it is really unwise for anyone to assume that the parade of Wiggins, Oubre, and potentially Brown would have been better for Kansas than three seasons of AW3.
We revere Travis Releford as a Kansas basketball player. We are interested in Wiggins mainly because of his NBA exploits. There is a big difference.
-
I love Releford for everything he did at KU, but I would have loved to have had McLemore in that title game instead of Travis. Not because Travis couldn’t contribute, because obviously he could (and did), but because McLemore could have pushed KU over the top. The ring potential is what changes my viewpoint. Brown makes next years team a potential ring team. There isn’t another wing out there that can do that.
-
@justanotherfan maybe instead of Teahan?
-
@Crimsonorblue22 That works too.
-
Yes…but…
How good were White and Frankamp that could not beat the players that ended up in the rotation? Coach Self is no dummy and he will play whoever gives him the best chance of winning; White and Frankamp just were not it. You can cite early stats or any stats, but the reality is that neither was good enough to earn substantial playing time much less start.
