CLIFF GONE
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This was such a shocker…I had him declaring for the draft 30 seconds after the national championship game, and he waited almost 24 hours.
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@BeddieKU23 I’m glad he didn’t land us on probation- thank God him and his mother didn’t cooperate.
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I really liked Cliff… but seriously… THANK GOD THIS ORDEAL IS OVER!
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SI.com reports that Bill Self called Cliff’s one year at Kansas “interesting and educational.” Oops! I just read the LJW account in which Self said, “CLIFF had a very interesting and educational year.”
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@KUSTEVE I don’t think KU would’ve suffered if his mom had given NCAA the documents they wanted. Maybe someday when Cliff writes of his exploits in the NBDL we’ll know the truth.
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@brooksmd I’m of the mind that this was Cliff’s plan all along, and Mom was brought in to funnel the money, and have the paperwork done in a different name. That, to me, is a lot more believable than saying his mother randomly took out a loan on her adult son’s future earnings, and a lender would approve a loan without having some kind of written agreement with the actual wage earner.
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Didn’t this same thing happen to Jahlil Okafor? Uh… guess not.
I guess if you can get into Duke you probably have at least a reasonable mindset and wouldn’t risk your future over what… a few bucks?
I’m sorry… but this entire story has DUMB written all over it!
Maybe we need to veer away from the Kentucky-style recruits and head on over and put some pressure on Coach K and his recruits?
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Are we being a tad to harsh here?
This isn’t Selby who could have came back but decided to take his chances in the NBA.
This isn’t White who had his dad complain about how many scholarships his son had to play somewhere else.
This wasn’t a guy who anyone on the team complained about his demeanor when he wasn’t playing much.
This is a guy who had his family (and probably himself) make stupid decisions. And he is paying dearly for them. So what if he didn’t live up to the expectations we held him to.
In the end, Self probably pushed him out and for good reason. But lets not slam him into the Selby category. I honestly wish him the best of luck and hope that fans always support him.
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@JhawkAlum Let this also be a lesson for this board. Both here and at the other site I have seen us year after year turn what is a good prospect into the man child who will lead us to the promised land (NC). When that doesn’t happen we blame him for not being the player we had hoped he would be.
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I thought he was over hyped and somewhat overrated coming out of HS. We saw flashes of what he could do but those were few and far in between; he certainly could have used a second and maybe eve third year in college but I will guess that coming back is not an option. Good luck to him hoping he works hard or maybe I should say harder to make his dream come through. Not much else to say…which in a way is a really sad thing.
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@JhawkAlum Agree with your sentiment about being harsh. Yes…someone(s) made some bad decisions that cost the kid the opportunity to improve at the end of the year…and he could have improved a lot. Unfortunately, we’ll never know.
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@drgnslayr said:
I guess if you can get into Duke you probably have at least a reasonable mindset and wouldn’t risk your future over what… a few bucks?
Actually, Duke has what they call a “holistic” admissions policy:
“At the same time, keep in mind that Duke has holistic admissions – Duke’s admissions folks are looking for students who will bring more than good grades and standardized test scores to their campus. tudents who show some kind of remarkable talent or have a compelling story to tell will often get a close look even if grades and test scores aren’t quite up to the ideal.”
“Under a holistic admissions policy, a student with a 3.8 GPA might be turned down while an award-winning trumpet player with a 3.0 GPA might get accepted”
http://collegeapps.about.com/od/GPA-SAT-ACT-Graphs/ss/duke-admission-gpa-sat-act.htm
And the minimum requirement for a 1-and-done student is 6 passing credit hours per semester, while enrolled in 12 credit hours per semester… http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=205076744
So I guess conceivably you could be dumb as a brick but good at basketball and get 2 F’s and 2 D’s per semester, assuming D’s are passing… maybe it’s C’s… So even if it’s C’s, you’re talking about a minimum of a 1.0 GPA.
I doubt that’s really any different than any other school, right?
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@approxinfinity I intensely dislike being in the position of seeming to defend the Duke’s and UK’s of the world - I will take my shots - but it sure seems like a lot of former Duke players are very articulate and successful in their post college careers. Going way back, I know Alarie well and he’s smart, successful and all around good person. Bilas is everywhere. Grant Hill, Laettner, Jay Williams, Shane Battier, their guys who have become coaches, and others. Like it or not, they are a bit like the Stanford of the East - the school of choice in part because of academic rep for the best athletes who do care about academics and have the long view about life after college or pro ball. No doubt there are exceptions, but it seems they have a pretty good track record of high accomplishment guys beyond BBall.
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@approxinfinity I’ve been telling people this all day long. People act like Coach K is so holier than thou, while Calipari is such a scumbag. The difference? Duke is the 7th best school in America with an admission rate of 10%. UK? They’re ranked lower than K-State. Absolutely appalling.
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@DCHawker I’d make the distinction between smart and successful/famous. The list of people to whom you refer are successful/famous individuals. They are media darlings. Just like Duke is a media darling. Are they good at business? Well Christian Laettner wasn’t. He ended up owing people millions of dollars when his real estate business didn’t pan out. Not successful like Chris Piper, who cofounded Grandstand Sportswear and Glassware, a company that has grown 45 percent year over year for the last 4 years.
If you want to extend your list to coaches, I’d say that the players turned coaches that KU has put out over the last 2 decades are every bit as intelligent and successful as those of Coach K’s tree.
I’m not saying there aren’t smart guys that go to Duke. I’m just saying let’s take them off the pedestal already. It’s the Dukey bias, and we’re spoon fed it year after year after year after year… I can already see those questionable calls from last night walking into the sunset as the here and now fact that we will be reminded of over and over is that Coach K now has a 5th ring.
It’s just garbage. It’s all smoke and mirrors garbage.
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@approxinfinity Smart doesn’t necessarily lead to success - and success doesn’t necessarily require smarts - fair enough. And, I can only personally attest to exactly one Duke guy who is both. Most of the others I mentioned are observational only on TV - they come across as smart and articulate. Whether they get opportunities that others might not because they are Dookies is a good question. Can’t answer that.
I certainly don’t put Duke, the coach or the players on a pedestal, and I get tired of the media favoritism shown them and take (inordinate) pleasure when they lose to the likes of Mercer.
But, I’m also willing to give credit where credit is due. IMO, K is the best or one of the two best college coaches ever. 5 titles and 12 FFs over a long period with actually relatively limited NBA all-star level talent is truly remarkable. Doesn’t mean I like the sanctimony, the ref bating and the very disingenuous “coaching USA Basketball is such a detriment to Duke and recruiting.” And, I have no doubt that his sniping in yesterday’s game played a significant role in the bad calls that went against the Badgers in the second half.
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@DCHawker I do think that Coach K is capable of being a great coach without angling for technicalities and loopholes that give him a competitive edge.
I also think that Barry Bonds and ARod were capable of being great baseball players without steroids.
When has Bill Self ever had a team that flops on offense and/or defense? When have we poked people in the eyes, deliberately dropped elbows in players faces on rebounds, or relentlessly fouled people because the refs aren’t calling it? When have we had fabricated seconds added to the clock for our last possession? When have we gotten a disproportionate number of calls go our way in a tournament game we were otherwise going to lose? How often do we get the cakewalk draw in the tournament bracket? Coach K and the Dukey machine are defining the context in which they play, and then succeeding in that context.
I’m tired of it. The least we can do is not give them undo credit for whatever gonzo brand of basketball they’re peddling.
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Cliff is gone and that means our chances for Diallo just got even better.
Chris Mullins who?
Also, I don’t want to lose Ellis, but he’s stayed three years and well within coming back and finishing his degree. I would think his parents will tell him to declare and then finish his degree. I know he would too.
If we do lose Ellis, I have a wild idea that we land Maker too.
Dook won the NC and that influenced Ingram.
I think the twins are gone regardless of their stock and Newman goes UK.
I’m still not sure where Brown goes. He seems to be a Michigan, UCLA, UK, and KU lean right now.
WE WILL NOT GET ZIMMERMAN. I would be shocked if we land Zimmerman.
The back court is solid. We really don’t need anyone at the 1-3. We are jammed at the 1-3. I’m waiting on Selden.
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I will say I got to experience some “golden era days” at KU.
Something was in the water in the 60’s and 70’s with local athletes in the day with track-fooball-swimming.
And we had something going on with great recruiting out of state back then too in other sports. ,title 9 killed men sports programs outside of bBall and even then bBall took a dip.
We took a big dip which Brown, Roy, and Self revived in bBall and Mangino fixed in football 2006-2008.
I hope,this TV money works it’s magic for all sports.
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Bragg
Diallo
Maker…Maybe not if we land Thorne
Thorne
Mason
Graham
Selden
Green
Svi
Mari
Lucas
Mickelson
Bonus: Either Ingram or Brown, not necessary, but nice…However nice, Self might want to keep one open just in case that certain transfer player might come along.
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@REHawk “Interesting and educational”–that line made me laugh. Bill always has to play it straight.
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@approxinfinity At least KU beat Duke in Madison Sq. Garden last year. Do what we can to maintain our stature & prestige…
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Ellis leaving would be the biggest joke in all of the Self Era. Regardless of whether he graduates early this would be the worst decision ever!!
He’s going to have to be a SF in the league just ask Marcus Morris. He hasn’t even transitioned into being a 3 yet. He was a decent 3 point shooter with nobody around. More and more rumblings seem to be saying he’s going to go. Whatever dude, cripple the team even more.
Cliff was the #2 rated player in his class. He was disappointing and wasn’t ready to fill the shoes we needed. We should have seen more out of him but his development will be for some NBA or d-league affiliate to figure out.
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“I doubt that’s really any different than any other school, right?”
I had no idea it could be that easy to get into Duke. I have family members who graduated from Duke and they like to rub it in that Duke is tough to get into, but we all know that is part of the schtick at Duke, claiming to be better than everyone else.
I’m guessing that what you cited is their legal department covering their bases. They seem pretty good at that… being lawyers.
I do believe K has his own standards and he will back off a recruit he doesn’t think he can reach. Notice how he speaks to his players so different from Cal, who animates like a kindergarten teacher. I couldn’t handle being spoken to like Cal talks to his players, but then I guess I might fly above his mental bar (and that’s not saying much).
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@drgnslayr I realize the links I provided earlier weren’t the official duke site. I rushed it. Here’s a link to the real site regarding holistic admission standards:
http://admissions.duke.edu/application/instructions#frequently_asked_questions
“First, please understand that we do not have a minimum required score for either the SAT or ACT, nor do we have a minimum required GPA or class rank.”
I agree K chooses recruits he can reach, as you said. But again, that’s completely subjective. We’ll never know what the Duke basketball team’s SATs and GPAs are because Duke is, as a private university, “not subject to the state open-records laws [that public universities are subject to].”.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/12/29/admit
Agreed that the way Cal talks about/to his players is grating. After their loss, his comment about telling his team that what they did was still historic, and that next year they’d do something even more historic kind of cracked me up. Selling a used car on blocks. His words are an endless supply of carrots.
I don’t know if that is reflective of the kids being dumb. I’m throwing out random stuff here and if someone can refute it with something substantial, by all means please do, but here’s a link to the Kentucky basketball team having a 3.124 GPA for Fall 2014. Well, at least their tutors are capable of getting Bs. Who knows.
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I guess they were not allowed to get A’s so it would be believable…
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I believe that is the official policy but I seriously doubt anyone with a low GPA, other than athletes, gets in. Duke has program where they identify gifted kids all over the country and invite them to participate in program where they follow their progress through school and the better candidates get invited to apply when they graduate from HS. I know this because my grandson was invited to join the program when he was in elementary school; he will be starting HS next August and he is still in the program.
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Cliff … Don’t let the “Door Nob hit you on your way out!” School? … Education? … Who needs an Education to put a little ball into a round circle !! Duh … I can say now that I’ve been to College !!! Duh !!
