If Bill’s roster falls apart…
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Basically, my feeling is if we lose Flory or DP its time to move on from Bill. Sorry to say thats where I think we are. Next season is his swan’s song, and only if he has a talented enough roster to do it “the Bill way”
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Methinks some don’t remember what it was like under former coaches. The level of consistency Bill has had is unmatched.
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@approxinfinity you should probably rename this post to coach bashing? It has nothing to do w/Elmarko anymore
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@dylans well, I think you’ve at times been partial to
comparing basketball to other jobs, right? So, if a remarkably consistent president of a company had 3 down years in a row, should he be given a 4th, when its clear he wont have what he needs to be successful for that 4th year?
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@Crimsonorblue22 ok.
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There has been zero credible talk about losing either fwiw
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@dylans said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
Methinks some don’t remember what it was like under former coaches. The level of consistency Bill has had is unmatched.
This is a low-key hilarious take. Former coaches you say? Which one? Roy Williams? The HOF coach who left over 20 years ago? Ya, most people probably don’t remember that. Or did you mean Larry Brown? The other HOF coach who won a national championship at KU…who left almost 40 years ago. Or did you mean Ted Ownes…whose last season at KU was in 1983…over 40 years ago. Ya, most people probably don’t remember that…because it was a lifetime ago.
I don’t disagree with the take…but this is a pretty hilarious thing to say about a program that’s had, what, 8 coaches in its entire history.
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Regardless… unlimited lifetime contract is just too ridiculous. Honestly, watching KU now is like watching McConnell during presser.
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@jay4ever well, that seems a bit extreme. But I get your point. Completely.
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@jay4ever A life time contract is total assine, for whoever, whenever , whyever , for however- -people need outs, , Players , Coach’s , Managers WTF eve life times are total BS moves
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@jay4ever you do have a choice, huh?
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@approxinfinity said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
Basically, my feeling is if we lose Flory or DP its time to move on from Bill. Sorry to say thats where I think we are. Next season is his swan’s song, and only if he has a talented enough roster to do it “the Bill way”
For a usually level-headed guy this is really fucking stupid.
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“We should fire the most successful coach in the history of our historic program after two seasons we still made the tourney.”
-People online who forget 60+ other major programs exist.
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Like I said earlier this season it doesn’t matter the coach or the sport eventually time catches up and their philosophy don’t work anymore to most coaches unless you retire after a good season. It happen to Dean Smith, Bobby knight, Tom Landry and Hank Stram. It’s the ole Batman line either you die a hero or live long enough to become the villain.
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Watching the chiefs now, sorta reminds me of watching KU lately, not much fun
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@kjayhawks said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
Like I said earlier this season it doesn’t matter the coach or the sport eventually time catches up and their philosophy don’t work anymore to most coaches unless you retire after a good season. It happen to Dean Smith, Bobby knight, Tom Landry and Hank Stram. It’s the ole Batman line either you die a hero or live long enough to become the villain.
Dean Smith made a FF his final year coaching! And was only 4 years removed from his 2nd Natty Lmao.
So did K! Who missed the tourney at least once I can remember with Duke. But the game didn’t pass him by.
Izzo has had ups and downs and has a team who could definitely make a FF run this season.
What philosophy does Self have that is causing the game to pass him by?
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@approxinfinity said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
@dylans well, I think you’ve at times been partial to
comparing basketball to other jobs, right? So, if a remarkably consistent president of a company had 3 down years in a row, should he be given a 4th, when its clear he wont have what he needs to be successful for that 4th year?When you’re at the top there is no where else to go man. That’s just silly when he still has a company in the top 10% of all companies for winning and top 5 for revenue generation. It is a business right? What defines a successful business? $$$
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@MoonwalkMafia said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
@dylans said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
Methinks some don’t remember what it was like under former coaches. The level of consistency Bill has had is unmatched.
This is a low-key hilarious take. Former coaches you say? Which one? Roy Williams? The HOF coach who left over 20 years ago? Ya, most people probably don’t remember that. Or did you mean Larry Brown? The other HOF coach who won a national championship at KU…who left almost 40 years ago. Or did you mean Ted Ownes…whose last season at KU was in 1983…over 40 years ago. Ya, most people probably don’t remember that…because it was a lifetime ago.
I don’t disagree with the take…but this is a pretty hilarious thing to say about a program that’s had, what, 8 coaches in its entire history.
Ok, so you don’t have much of a KU history. Enjoy it, it will change. We are spoiled and about to find out how much. It will thin out a bunch of the “fans” that are currently around.
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Bill in a way is a victim of his own success. I remember the streak talk. How Bill cares more about, what is arguably one of the greatest sports accomplishments of all time, in the streak rather than focusing on a Natty.
Now in what is just a “bad” season (likely to end in a top 5 seed in the tournament for the 2nd season in a row), people are calling for his head.
Bunch of spoiled little babies you are. Unrealistic expectations are why Nebraska football is in the fucking toilet. Ungrateful and childish fanbase.
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@Kcmatt7 said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
@kjayhawks said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
Like I said earlier this season it doesn’t matter the coach or the sport eventually time catches up and their philosophy don’t work anymore to most coaches unless you retire after a good season. It happen to Dean Smith, Bobby knight, Tom Landry and Hank Stram. It’s the ole Batman line either you die a hero or live long enough to become the villain.
Dean Smith made a FF his final year coaching! And was only 4 years removed from his 2nd Natty Lmao.
So did K! Who missed the tourney at least once I can remember with Duke. But the game didn’t pass him by.
Izzo has had ups and downs and has a team who could definitely make a FF run this season.
What philosophy does Self have that is causing the game to pass him by?
I didn’t say Coach K anywhere in my post and a lot of people were mad a Smith for only winning 2 titles with the guys he had. What about the others I listed?
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@kjayhawks said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
@Kcmatt7 said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
@kjayhawks said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
Like I said earlier this season it doesn’t matter the coach or the sport eventually time catches up and their philosophy don’t work anymore to most coaches unless you retire after a good season. It happen to Dean Smith, Bobby knight, Tom Landry and Hank Stram. It’s the ole Batman line either you die a hero or live long enough to become the villain.
Dean Smith made a FF his final year coaching! And was only 4 years removed from his 2nd Natty Lmao.
So did K! Who missed the tourney at least once I can remember with Duke. But the game didn’t pass him by.
Izzo has had ups and downs and has a team who could definitely make a FF run this season.
What philosophy does Self have that is causing the game to pass him by?
I didn’t say Coach K anywhere in my post and a lot of people were mad a Smith for only winning 2 titles with the guys he had. What about the others I listed?
Two NFL coaches and Bobby Knight whose very clear phimosphy issue was that he was an extremely abusive shithead?
What specific philosophy does Bill Self have that the game has passed him by? Cmon. I want to hear it.
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@Kcmatt7 playing 2 and 3 big men against teams with stretch 4s. Playing experience over talent this entire year. Bill Belichick is another prime example of dying a hero or living to become the villain. That’s pretty much how coaching and professional sports are buddy. You never ever even remotely convince me of other wise see examples almost every year.
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@kjayhawks another NFL coach lol.
He’s won playing many different schemes. I won’t buy the idea he is stuck on a scheme that is out of date because he’s proven he’ll change.
Maybe he is too loyal for the era. Maybe. I’m not willing to fire him after a couple of “bad” seasons because of it lol.
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@Kcmatt7 I’m not going to go back and forth here, as I said you will never even come remotely close to convincing me. Bill Self is a prime example of my argument, I’ve never seen more KU fans calling for change before this season started. It’s all over X and Facebook nearly every game. Very few coaches retire on good terms look at Florida states basketball coach Hambelton this year and Jim however the heck you spell his name at Miami this season. Two beloved coaches just a few short years ago.
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Yes let’s fire the best coach we’ve ever had based on vibes.
Fire Andy Reid while we’re at it!
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@Kcmatt7 I’m not necessarily saying firing him right now but his seat should start getting warm if next season is similar to these two. If he wins 7 games next year do you still say we can’t fire him he’s the best we’ve had? Time is undefeated on everyone my friend. Its the Lavar Ball Neva lost of life man
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Beyond basketball, which Bill absolutely deserves to hang around, it would be a nearly $30 million expense plus paying buyouts and salaries of a new staff, so probably over $40 million total. Looking forward to the proposals on how to pay for that when we have NIL, RevShare, and finishing the stadium on the ADs books.
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@FarmerJayhawk realistically Bill Self will be here for as long as he wants to be for many reasons. I just hope he leaves when the time is right for everyone and if we continue down our current path I hope it’s sooner rather than later. The last 2 years haven’t been fun and it’s hardly been the Kansas basketball we have grown to love under Roy and Bill. It’s sad but a very factual statement. I don’t look forward to the games anymore for the first time in my life.
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@kjayhawks the Roy thing I don’t get. In 14 years at KU, he got bounced in the second round 5 times, the Sweet 16 4, Elite Eight once, 3 final fours, 2 championship games, 0 titles. By any measure Bill has been far better than Roy at KU. If Bill had Roy’s record at KU people would be chasing him out of Lawrence with torches and pitchforks.
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I’ve always been a huge Self fan. And yes, he’s probably been the master of consistent winning basketball in D1 for his entire time at Kansas.
Last year and this year… it’s more than just the huge piles of losses. It’s the eye test over the season. It’s hard to see any appreciable gain with this team since December. Same with last year’s team. We are the most-experienced team in D1 but they often play like freshmen. That is extremely frustrating to watch. You have to wonder just what do these guys learn in practice?
It’s so frustrating that even with the knowledge of downgrading our program with a new coach, it’s hard not to wonder if it’s worth making the move.
I watch other teams, like Duke, UCONN, Gonzaga, etc etc etc and I see players coached up much higher.
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I feel like I know Bill well enough to state that he won’t make huge changes in the program between now and when he retires. He definitely lost a step in his physicality that also means mentality, too.
The game is changing rapidly. We all know that. This isn’t Bill’s fault. We are already seeing older coaches stepping down because they know they can’t keep up. If Bill wants to keep going and with the possibility of bringing home another nattie, he’d have to make changes he doesn’t want to make. His assistants and staff, probably all, would need to go and replaced with youth, often lacking similar experience but gifted in other areas he’s untrained in. Hopefully, he would also have one of those guys structured as a protege/replacement.
So much of this is generational differences. I know if I was a recruit… I’d easily pick Duke over Kansas. I’m sure I could accept learning easier from Scheyer and his staff over Self and his staff. It’s generational.
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@Kcmatt7 if you can refrain from calling me “really fucking stupid” because I express an opinion different than yours it would be appreciated.
Also, I didnt say fire him. I said move on from him. Yes, theres a difference. If Goff gives him next year with another diminshed roster, he can still “move on”, i.e. start thinking about life after Bill. Consider options, plan, figure out how to talk to Bill about it and have those conversations. I am in favor of Bill walking away on his own terms but in our 3rd consecutive down year, it becomes clear that he is having problems “leveling up” and navigating “the back nine”, and if it causes our roster construction next year to again be weak, which is a large chunk of the problem, then we arent solving anything and its time to figure out a peaceful transition of power.
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@approxinfinity said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
@Kcmatt7 if you can refrain from calling me “really fucking stupid” because I express an opinion different than yours it would be appreciated.
Also, I didnt say fire him. I said move on from him. Yes, theres a difference. If Goff gives him next year with another diminshed roster, he can still “move on”, i.e. start thinking about life after Bill. Consider options, plan, figure out how to talk to Bill about it and have those conversations. I am in favor of Bill walking away on his own terms but in our 3rd consecutive down year, it becomes clear that he is having problems “leveling up” and navigating “the back nine”, and if it causes our roster construction next year to again be weak, which is a large chunk of the problem, then we arent solving anything and its time to figure out a peaceful transition of power.
Meh semantics.
Spoiled ass fanbase opinion. Won’t let it go unchecked. Suspend me or whatever I don’t really care. You guys need to get a grip on reality, it’s really sad to see.
“I didn’t say fire him, I said move on. There’s a difference!” lol whatever man.
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@drgnslayr said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
I feel like I know Bill well enough to state that he won’t make huge changes in the program between now and when he retires. He definitely lost a step in his physicality that also means mentality, too.
The game is changing rapidly. We all know that. This isn’t Bill’s fault. We are already seeing older coaches stepping down because they know they can’t keep up. If Bill wants to keep going and with the possibility of bringing home another nattie, he’d have to make changes he doesn’t want to make. His assistants and staff, probably all, would need to go and replaced with youth, often lacking similar experience but gifted in other areas he’s untrained in. Hopefully, he would also have one of those guys structured as a protege/replacement.
So much of this is generational differences. I know if I was a recruit… I’d easily pick Duke over Kansas. I’m sure I could accept learning easier from Scheyer and his staff over Self and his staff. It’s generational.
The Zags who suck this year under 62 year old Few? And we’re a 5-seed last year?
Duke who the last two years with ungodly talent were a 4 and 5 seed in the tourney?
just all vibes with people here rn.
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@Kcmatt7 i am still level headed, and yes, I chose my words carefully. Moving on has no implicit timeframe, firing is inmediate.
Why would I suspend you? I want to debate without getting derailed by these being troubled times. Lets continue, please.
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@FarmerJayhawk people were devastated when Roy left and I was definitely one of them. Only complaints I have of Roy is not recruiting East of the Mississippi and not winning the big game. Self had more first round exits that Roy in year two here and his winning percentage in round two is much worse than Roy’s.
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@approxinfinity said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
@Kcmatt7 i am still level headed, and yes, I chose my words carefully. Moving on has no implicit timeframe, firing is inmediate.
Why would I suspend you? I want to debate without getting derailed by these being troubled times. Lets continue, please.
Its semantics. I mean, why would you even let him “waste” another season? If you don’t think he can do the job, then stand on your words and proclaim them. Fire Bill Self!
I mean why give the guy a swan song if he sucks at coaching now? Rip off the band aid. Start the petitions. Start the fundraising. Let’s get his ass out of here. I wouldn’t even wipe my ass with a Bill Self autograph at this point he sucks so bad.
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@Kcmatt7 are you being level headed right now? Lol
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@kjayhawks said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
@FarmerJayhawk people were devastated when Roy left and I was definitely one of them. Only complaints I have of Roy is not recruiting East of the Mississippi and not winning the big game. Self had more first round exits that Roy in year two here and his winning percentage in round two is much worse than Roy’s.
Literally same number of NCAA tournament wins during Roy’s UNC tenure as Bill had here.
45 to 45.
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@approxinfinity said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
@Kcmatt7 are you being level headed right now? Lol
I’m on team vibes now bro. You changed my mind. Bill Self can’t coach his way out of a wet paper bag anymore. If he loses a single recruit I may not watch him coach another game either.
We should seriously look at Tang as a replacement.
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@Kcmatt7 Having a HOF coach who is stuck in his ways languish for 3 years as the landscape of college basketball shifts under his feet and most of his peers retire is hard.
These are not “normal” times.
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@approxinfinity said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
@Kcmatt7 Having a HOF coach who is stuck in his ways languish for 3 years as the landscape of college basketball shifts under his feet and most of his peers retire is hard.
These are not “normal” times.
I know. Fire him! Scott Drew as a replacement? Who’s your shortlist?
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@Kcmatt7 i never said fire him, i never said he sucks or can’t coach. Those are your frustrations being projected.
X’s and O’s has never been a problem for Self.
This is about roster construction.
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@Kcmatt7 i dont have a shortlist. I’m sure others more knowledgeable about up and comers can assist there.
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@approxinfinity said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
@Kcmatt7 i never said fire him, i never said he sucks or can’t coach. Those are your frustrations being projected.
X’s and O’s has never been a problem for Self.
This is about roster construction.
You know what recruits really well? Crazy Faith.
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@Kcmatt7 your deep devotion to Bill is endearing. Dont change, bro.
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@StLJhawk One difference being that the Chiefs have won consistently for at least 3 years (although not convincingly this year) and KU has sucked bathwater for 2+ years.
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@nuleafjhawk not even freshman bathwater. Old man transfer and upperclassmen bathwater.
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How good would last years team have been if the rapist wouldn’t have raped or Kevin’s knee would’ve been ok and Timberlake would’ve been as advertised?
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@approxinfinity said in If Bill’s roster falls apart…:
@Kcmatt7 your deep devotion to Bill is endearing. Dont change, bro.
I mean when a guy wins 2 Nattys he should be basically untouchable. There are 8 programs in the history of the sport with more than 2 nattys. Programs. Not coaches. Programs. His last natty wasn’t even 5 years ago. You don’t just “move on” from guys who have proven they can win the big one.
It is actually more likely than not that Mark Pope doesn’t win a Natty at Kentucky than he does. UCLA has won only one Natty since Wooden-era. In '95. Indiana hasn’t won one since Knight.
It is a hard thing to do and this fanbase doesn’t appreciate that enough.
