Silence of the flock
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I think the double whammy of having a very realistic chance at a NC taken from us to last years underwhelming product, to the many question marks of this years talent has us not enthused for the upcoming season.
So many seasons this has been a busy time of discussing rotations, schedules, other teams in the league and what not. This is the first new topic in almost 2 weeks. Amazing!
Some of the past members had us talking a lot too of course and they’re MIA’s. The fact my computer at home won’t load the Bucket anymore makes it more challenging for me to stay on the site consistently.
I don’t have a ton of confidence for this season. We have some transfers that we’re really relying on. Remy being the key transfer I’d guess. But will the ISU kid contribute? The Drake kid? (see my apathy has me not knowing names) Big Dave and Mitch are returning bigs. Dave would be a borderline starter on our best teams. Grandpa Mitch is good for some high energy minutes. Harris I’m excited about.
Wilson started off the year showing out against Kentucky. But that almost seemed like his peak performance of the year. Ochai, flashes of brilliance, but we need a bright steady light instead of flashes. I think if the both of them can contribute consistently at their ceiling we’ll win a lot of games.
The freshmen? Unless they’re a once in a decade type high potential player like Wigs or Joel were I just wait and see. I really couldn’t name any of them. Looked at the roster and several of them I haven’t heard of. Part of this is because of my devotion to a particular baseball team (RIP) so I haven’t been r6eading up on guys, watching youtubes of their spectacular dunks against 6’2" dudes. I don’t care about Late Night and that they lit it up that night. It’s nothing more than a pickup game. I suppose we’ve had guys score 20 on late night and not score that many total the rest of the season.
I guess I’ll have to get out the wallet to watch games on ESPN+ even though I’ve been paying ESPN for decades through my dish package. Really wish they’d honor those who’ve paid for ESPN for a long time with a free subscription, or even half off. I wouldn’t mind seeing KU in the BIG both for proximity and for exposure on the BIG channel. But they took the high road and tried to hold the league together.
By the way screw you texas and chokelahoma for abandoning your league and going to the football only league. May you lose more there than you did in our league and by a lot. The snake Billy Tubbs would be proud of his sooners for being aholes.
I’m proud to be a KU grad. It’s allowed me to follow this team late into March every season. I wore my needs to be replaced 2008 T shirt last night hoping I can order a new one with 2022 on it. Don’t want to wait 30 years for the next when I’ll probably be pushing up daisy’s from below, and if not that, annoying the heck out of my wife and kids for being a crotchety very old man.
I found sheet music for the the fight song that I play on my trumpet. It’s a blast to play. The alma mater Hail to thee or whatever it’s called I can just play without music. Both cause a sort of worshipful experience in me that is hard to explain.
I love telling friends up here when the GOAT conversations come up about how it’s an insult to our GOAT named Wilt that it isn’t MJ and Wilt in the debate. I can honestly say both could be co-GOATS. But watching peoples reactions when I mention about Wilt’s NBA career and their eyes widen. There’s really only two comparisons in sport. Babe Ruth and Wayne Gretzky. But Wilt is right there with them. If you don’t know what I’m talking about look up his stats. Don’t give me crap about lack of championships. Having the greatest team in pro sports history to go up against when he was in his prime is the answer to that question.
So go ahead and chat. Give me some reasons to be optimistic. Heck affirm my pessimism! Give me your opinions, tell me I’m an “idot”, or ‘your stoopid’ or whatever. Tell me I’m brilliant or tell me to get out of my moms basement every once in a while. Go ahead, make my day!
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Admit it… you are yearning for the season to start! It’s painful waiting. So many unanswered questions… a team largely made from imports but yet most of our core is returning. It is always exciting to see the new guys… bringing with them new dreams for fans.
I’m very optimistic about this team. More so than the start two years ago with the Doke/Dot combo. This is a team with speed, diverse talents, and a well-known entity at PG. Everyone in here should know me by now. I always look no further than our PG in assessing our success. But this time, it isn’t just spotlighting Remy. Dajuan will surely come into his own more this year. I’m as excited to watch his defense as his offense.
We’ve had so much to consider this year. So many “shiny boxes” on this team. Did we forget about players like Jalen Wilson? He’s gone to work on his lower body strength… the one area he was running a deficit though it never stopped him from being aggressive.
I can go through the list, old and new. But we’ve done that!
Now we’ve been informed that our coaching staff has brought a higher intensity to practices this year! Might this be the difference? So many new pieces and possibilities… trying to create a team that gels.
OU… Texas… I never felt Texas belonged in our conference and I am happy to say goodbye to these clowns. OU is a different story. I’m not gonna lie!
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@drgnslayr Harris I’m not feeling positive about yet, more of a show me vibe. I recall his shot looking very much like a junior high kid who still has to load up to heave it up to the basket from any kind of distance. I’m hoping it is more of a pure college player stroke.
Speaking of show me, I should have mentioned the showdown with Misery. I’m thrilled they’re on the schedule. Some were in my view kind of petty about stiffing them and not wanting to play them out of spite. To me, the Missouri game was THE game on the schedule. Still peeved I couldn’t watch the last one as I had a wedding to go to. So bring em on. I’m guessing it becomes more of throwback to the hot days of the rivalry, kind of a throw the records out the window style game.
BTW I did reference Wilson and it’s amazing to see RS Sophomore next to his name because he seems like he should be a senior. I see big things for him by the time he’s finished in Lawrence and hoping this year is the start of the big things.
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Remy is preseason Big 12 Player of the Year. Color me surprised and dubious as to whether it will go down that way ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Silence of the flock:
Remy is preseason Big 12 Player of the Year. Color me surprised and dubious as to whether it will go down that way ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Don’t think he will tbh. His numbers might take a hit in Self’s system but he will also do much more winning than at ASU.
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I’m optimistic and guarded about this team. The preseason polls will likely have them in the top 5. I can see 8 starter level players on this team. I think 2 others Lightfoot/Cam Martin will have roles and we’ll need someone to be the backup 5 on a regular basis. Different guys bring something different to the table. I believe at least 1 freshman will find some minutes (Pettiford, Adams, Clemence). Its potentially a very deep team capable of absorbing someone slumping, an injury etc that always happens. I see the potential for this to be a much improved team no doubt. They have options at PG now, there’s quality depth at Guard/Wing & enough core players back to expect better results this year.
What I’m waiting to see is who takes this team over and is the leader. Who is the guy everyone looks to? Who’s going to be the go-to player on offense. Will we have 3-4 legitimate weapons everytime down the court? Will this team defend well enough? So many questions.
As optimistic about this team as I am I look back at last year and I wonder what the ceiling of those that came back (Dave, Braun, Jalen, Ochai, Jaun) will be with another year. I’ve been of the opinion that none of these guys would start on a number of KU’s best teams in the Self era. Maybe you could make the case for someone overall but these guys haven’t shown to be as good overall as many of KU’s best in the past. It’s not a knock, its just my opinion. College Basketball looks really good this year and I expect to see better teams and more depth. I really hope some guys took that next step, hopefully all of them did. Hopefully Remy Martin is the answer in the backcourt and the pieces all fit together. I think the potential and the ceiling is higher with this squad then last years. Hopefully a jam packed Allen Fieldhouse makes a difference.
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Expecting Cam to be the back-up 5 fwiw
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@BeddieKU23 Forgot to mention Braun in my post. Man he exudes potential at times and then disappears many others. I’d love to see a much improved Braun, but I guess you put what I was trying to say pretty well, these guys don’t feel like NC potential players, even FF would be a ceiling that seems unattainable. Another great chance for Bill Self to show his HOF crews and coach this team to heights not believed possible.
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I think Bobby is a NC level PG but obviously not yet. Also thought this of Dotson, too bad he didn’t get a chance to prove it.
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I hear you regarding Braun, he was easy to like as a freshman. I think last yr he played out of position and didn’t have the pieces around him to mask his weaknesses. He showed flashes but rarely was consistent. It’s year 3 so hopefully he’s taken a step forward. His shooting was what disappointed me the most. I think that went hand in hand with playing a ton more minutes. He wasn’t the most highly recruited/sought after player in High School so there’s the question whether he was ready to produce at the level we expect as a sophomore. We will find out if KU development pays off like it usually does in yr 3 and 4
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As bad as KU was last season, lack of scoring ability was their biggest issue. Self addressed that by going out and getting the best scorer in the country in Remy Martin. Remy will open up any other options for other players because of his play making ability.
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And if Dave becomes the 2nd coming of Wilt we’ll be really really really good.
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Heh
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@wissox said in Silence of the flock:
And if Dave becomes the 2nd coming of Wilt we’ll be really really really good.
If Dave is what he was the last 2/3 of last season, I’ll take that in a heartbeat.
KU is going to be just fine this year. This team is deep and old and the kind of team more than capable of winning a championship this year. There might be a couple of bumps early while chemistry is being developed, but the skill sets of the projected rotation players compliment each other very well.
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Alot of the silence comes from everyone being burnt out on the neverending NCAA investigation, but I’m still paying attention and posting.
I think that we, taking a look around at the college basketball landscape, stand a great chance to be bullies this year. My favorite NBA team? The Bad Boys. Defense wins.
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@Marco said in Silence of the flock:
Alot of the silence comes from everyone being burnt out on the neverending NCAA investigation, but I’m still paying attention and posting.
I think that we, taking a look around at the college basketball landscape, stand a great chance to be bullies this year. My favorite NBA team? The Bad Boys. Defense wins.
This is not an elite defensive group. Harris and Agbaji are the only two top level defenders on this team. Yesufu is a question mark because of the step up in competition. Remy Martin and JCL are decent defenders, but don’t expect either to be in the discussion for an All-Defensive team spot. McCormack is average and struggles against athletic bigs. Braun and Wilson are below average defenders at best. I doubt Cam Martin is anything special on defense because of his lack of athleticism.
This team will be improved on defense from last season based on experience, but this team won’t touch the 2020, 2012, or 2008 in terms of being elite defensive teams either.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 agree with some of your points, but this team has the ability and depth to bigtime full court press. And that would feed our offense.
Granted, I know that coach has never really done so, but if ever a time it is now. The depth and speed at our guard positions and abundance of 4s almost mandates it.
Btw, I think that some are sleeping on Martin. He’ll be a better defender than many think, and will average about 9 ppg. He’ll have the green light to shoot anytime that he is open.
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I really can’t wait to see what Yesufu & Coleman-Lands bring to the table. If they are consistent upgrades over Thompson & Enaruna/Grant-Foster its a win. I have no idea what we are getting in Cam Martin but I hope his stretch shooting ability translates and he can at least defend at an average level.
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@BeddieKU23 that’s what I think he’ll be, a more than average defender (he has size), and a guy that can stretch the floor. Dave will undoubtedly start, but I’m thinking that Martin will fit in very well with this team as far as kickouts and passing, things like that.
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I don’t think he can guard at the D1 level. Having a big whose only use is to shoot threes is incongruous with every bone in Bills body and he will only see floor when games are total blowouts either way.
Mitch will be the real backup 5 in meaningful minutes with maybe one of the freshmen getting a little run when Self is sick of Mitch
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@approxinfinity said in Silence of the flock:
I don’t think he can guard at the D1 level. Having a big whose only use is to shoot threes is incongruous with every bone in Bills body and he will only see floor when games are total blowouts either way.
Mitch will be the real backup 5 in meaningful minutes with maybe one of the freshmen getting a little run when Self is sick of Mitch
I have not heard this but I could see it breaking that way after the games start because Bill is Bill. I truly hope not. Mitch and Bryce were both unreal bad last year.
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Three long weeks until the first exhibition game… ! Should be a fun year no matter how they land at the end
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Glad to see people finally waking up from their summer snoozes! lol
I find it very unlikely we will put much energy into running a full court press. I know we’ve got the speed and the bodies… we just don’t have the coach who will take the time and energy to commit to running that as a real threat. Also… we have too many new guys who have to learn from scratch and we have to gel as a team. Yes… there will be desperate moments when we apply full court pressure.
I do see the potential for Self to run 3/4 court pressure or at least pickup at half court. It requires no scheming and little instruction. Maybe run some traps. It’s more a tactic to throw teams out of rhythm so they can’t easily run their offense. I think Self sees the potential of Harris having big steal numbers (which happen through chaos and traps).
If Martin can bang treys he’ll have opportunities to do so… either through established PT or using him as a spark. We will have those nights when our regular perimeter guys go cold. A guy like Martin could go in and be a real spark, depending on how he is used.
@BeddieKU23 sees it correctly concerning comparing talent to other teams. Big difference with this team though… many of those great players did it on teams without ultimate PG play. I keep saying it… PG is the most important position on the team. He’s the quarterback in football. He’s the playmaker. Remy is a proven entity. And Harris and others should surprise many.
@Texas-Hawk-10 rarely shows this much confidence in our teams, especially this early. I see why. Experience rules D1. We really aren’t counting on one or two superstar freshmen coming in and bringing home a NC. I’m so glad (and refreshed) we aren’t setup with another one of those teams! All of our guys are on equal ground, and any one of these guys can get hot and pickup a lot of needed positive attention… more possible than other years when we have a top tier guy stealing the spotlight all the time. This should help gel the team and also give guys something to fight for!
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It will be interesting to see how Remy meshes his style with Self. I think that’s something to monitor. Same with Yesufu, those two guys can go make a play that isn’t scripted. I really hope those two have the freedom to create because last year we saw the worst offense in the Self era out there. Harris is in year 3 in the program and we’ll see what leap he’s made in his game. Pettiford is waiting in the wings. The backcourt positions should be in good hands. If anything Self has options which in the past several years he hasn’t really had. I’m glad they hit recruiting hard on that front.
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Our track record with upperclassmen transfers is spotty. Malik Newmann delivered, Jeff Withey did too. Charlie Moore? Poor kid just need to bite the bullet and call it a career and get on with life, although Miami is a nice place to discover finally to hang it up! I expected way more from Isaiah Moss and the hyphenated named kid last year who seemed to try extra hard that he was good and failed spectacularly. I think Yesufu can grow into a usable piece. Remy I do have high hopes for as do the ones who chose him for Big12 player of the year. But I still seem conditioned to give transfers a sideways glance.
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We had the Lawsons too, one worked out well. Tarik Black, Kevin Young other successes.
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Players are by and large what they are. So I will say I wasn’t too surprised when Moss and Dedric were basically the same players. I was also not surprised by Charlie’s struggles. Malik I think is one where Self really brought the best out of him eventually.
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@BShark what happened to Newman, is he playing overseas?
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@BeddieKU23 Thanks, forgot those guys although I didn’t look at rosters to try to remind myself. Dedric Lawson was indeed a nice transfer although it didn’t lead us to any sort of promised land. Of those others you mentioned I think Tarik surprised me the most especially since he also earned a couple of seasons in the NBA. I never saw that coming.
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The experience edge this team has will lead to better results. 4 starters, 2 rotation guys + 4 transfers. 10 deep before a freshman. Last years squad didn’t have any of that. Guys were put in situations they weren’t used to. Some guys played that shouldn’t have but necessity ruled. While there’s some chemistry to build with this squad, the talent is there, the experience is there to be a much improved team, which should lead to a team that can possibly cut down the nets.
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I didn’t mention the Hunter Mickelson, Sam Cunliffe, Dwight Coleby, Mario Little’s of the world. Transfers are hit and miss as you noted. I think Remy and Yesufu were great additions from the portal and will prove to be the exceptions. Remy with 4 years proven in the Pac-12, torched KU once. Yesufu was so fun to watch in the NCAA tournament and torched USC, a team that made us look like a bunch of 8th graders. He’s got some Moxy to him that I’m excited to see how it all fits here.
Agree on Dedric. He was statistically really good but for me underwhelmed in many areas I thought he’d excel at here. That was a weird squad. The injury to Doke & the drama with Vick ruined a lot of it.
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@Marco said in Silence of the flock:
@BShark what happened to Newman, is he playing overseas?
Yeah, he has really bounced around. Seems like he will have a long career but not at any one place.
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@BeddieKU23 said in Silence of the flock:
I didn’t mention the Hunter Mickelson, Sam Cunliffe, Dwight Coleby, Mario Little’s of the world. Transfers are hit and miss as you noted. I think Remy and Yesufu were great additions from the portal and will prove to be the exceptions. Remy with 4 years proven in the Pac-12, torched KU once. Yesufu was so fun to watch in the NCAA tournament and torched USC, a team that made us look like a bunch of 8th graders. He’s got some Moxy to him that I’m excited to see how it all fits here.
Agree on Dedric. He was statistically really good but for me underwhelmed in many areas I thought he’d excel at here. That was a weird squad. The injury to Doke & the drama with Vick ruined a lot of it.
With the rules change I think things are going to be a lot different going forward. We are basically going to see the lower levels of college hoops turn into feeders for the big boys. We already saw that this offseason with the likes of Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan State, Michigan etc take in players from low leagues that are expected to have very real roles and/or start.
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I think most of our transfers have a solid track record behind them already. Quite a bit different than other transfers from our past. Not sure about Martin because of his play being in D2, but I like what I see in game footage. Obviously, Remy is on another level. That shows why he already is recognized so highly in the Big 12.
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Remy and Coleman-Lands are probably the safest bets as far as expectations go among the transfers because they’re both coming from other P5 schools and have enough of a track record that we can pretty much pencil in their expectations. Remy is a legit B12 POY and I’ll even say he’s got a shot at NPOY if he duplicates his ASU numbers here and KU remains top 5 for most of the season. JCL will be a solid role player that gets good minutes.
Yesufu is much more of a wild card because he is stepping up a level in competition. We know how good he can be against good teams, the question with Yesufu will be consistency.
Cam is the biggest question mark among the transfers in this class because of how big of a step up he’s taking in level of competition.
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https://twitter.com/mctait/status/1449102559977816071
Remy saying the right things at least. More on Tait’s timeline.
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@BShark agree. How long before the smaller schools in unison all try to get the new transfer rules squashed? Because without question, they have basically become farm teams.
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If we stay healthy it is hard not to see us being a very dominant team this year. Question will be consistency. How will we do after we drop a couple? Good signs in preseason practices. Guys seem to be focused and working hard. Also… I am not sniffing out a troublemaker in our new crop of players.
Maybe only distraction is URP? Please someone tell me these jackarses wouldn’t punish this team during the season!
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@drgnslayr The real question is ALWAYS how will a team deal with adversity. Someone will get hurt, we may lose some games we weren’t supposed to, distractions happen. Seems like this year we could have the talent. If that shapes up to be true then it’s just about gelling and taking on each challenge as it comes.
I still worry about Dave as a legit leader and reliable advantage each game. I just don’t see how his mobility increases to the point where he is definitely better than most of the guys he goes up against.
I’m also concerned, as others mentioned, about the transfers fitting in to Self’s system. It traditionally taken time for most to adjust and freedom and creativity are not always at the top of the list of skills rewarded with playing time and trust from the head coach.
Totally agree that a systematic use of a press is a pipe dream. A trapping press just isn’t how self sees basketball working. What I do see is guards picking up there man nearly full court but especially 3/4 court. Harris in particular is a proven ball hawk and can at least cause some stress on opposing guards as they simply try to bring the ball up the court. If Harris can find a partner in creating havoc it could be a fun year. It’s really too bad he and Garrett couldn’t muster enough offensive threats to play A LOT together to build that kind of chemistry. Remember, Mario couldn’t have made all those steals and been in all those passing lanes without russ rob adding pressure. In this same subject, Dave’s defense needs to take a step forward (which it started to last year) so that the guards can have some freedom to gamble knowing if they miss it’s not an auto bucket.
Basically I still see this season going as Dave goes and that makes me nervous. Hopeful, but nervous.
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@benshawks08 how many minutes do you see Cam Martin getting?
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He will certainly get minutes and was a highly coveted talent. But tbh I just haven’t watched enough of him to know whether he is truly a Self style guard. Just looking at stats, the 1 foul per game is something that stood out to be as a possible issue as that could indicate a lack of physicality on the defensive end but again, not an expert on Martin so I’m in wait and see mode on him. Hasn’t he been hurt this off season?
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@benshawks08 My bad, I was talking about Cam. I’ve amended my post.
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@Marco yeah going to be honest that he’s a big unknown for me. I would imagine he will get some minutes early to see how it goes but I’d imagine he has a pretty short leash. Self has adjusted to playing small over the last few years and has seemed willing to put more guards on the floor if that’s where the talent is.
Obviously Dave isn’t playing 40 minutes a game so someone has to get some of those minutes but I’m not plugged in enough on the new guys to really guess who that’d be.
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@Marco said in Silence of the flock:
@benshawks08 My bad, I was talking about Cam. I’ve amended my post.
I’d forgotten we had 2 Martins…
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Can’t wait! I am a fan no matter what. I’ve stayed abreast of developments in transfers and think we can go 8 deep for sure…maybe 10??? We’ll see if Coach has loosened up on his tried and true fashion we have labored through in years past. Excited to see how he forms the team! Happy Homecoming!!
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Great post and I agree.
I’m probably more optimistic because we have so much experience on this team and I feel certain Remy is going to step up big time to run the show. We have most of our key players back and then surrounded them with mostly experienced players.
I think Dave’s role will change quite a bit. We won’t be counting on him as much this year… mostly because we have a legit PG who will be a playmaker. Remy should help all our guys’ games. I think Harris will be considerably improved, too… and he has shown us sparks of being a playmaker.
Cam offers us a nice change up from Dave. Maybe we have a game where Dave is off or being controlled on his limited offensive game. Cam can come in and stretch the floor. He should be easy to use on the perimeter with pick and pops. Dave is more pick and roll and then had to finish near the rim. And though Cam’s defense is in question… but to some degree, so is Dave’s.
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@benshawks08 bro, I forget sometimes too. I think that Cam is going to play about 10 or 11 mpg. He can shoot from deep, and factor in that Coach bigtime recruited Clemence who at 6’10 can also shoot. I’m thinking that Bill is going to start mixing things up some from here on.
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Pre-season Kenpom just dropped, KU checking in at #3. Obviously doesn’t mean too much, but nice to see.
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Seems a little high on B10 teams.
