After 3 games- Discussion
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No doubt we need Dave. But so far his numbers are negatively impacting the team single handily. Hopefully he can get healthy, practice on improvements he needs to make on the issues currently plaguing him.
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There have been several posts suggesting that to be successful (in the title hunt?), we’re going to “need” Dave or have him “produce” at some point. I would ask - “need” him for what or what are we looking for in terms of production?
I would agree that for depth and certain match-ups, he “needs” to be in the game for 15-20 minutes on average. But I would argue that when he is in, we basically run ZERO plays for him. If the guards throw it in to the paint to him, his sole function should be to kick it back out quickly, and not look to score. I might make an exception or two if only if the other team is pushing out the perimeter and he has someone no taller than about 6’6" behind him. And, then the only shot is a quick baby hook from 3 feet or less. Perhaps then maybe, I emphasize maybe, there is a 50% chance he scores. Otherwise, the only time he should be taking shots is off of offensive rebounds, and the occasional drive and dish.
The objective at this point is to simply not have him be a major liability on the court. He will continue to be on the defensive side due to poor footwork and positioning, inability to guard the perimeter, no rim protection, and mediocre rebounding skills. But, hopefully, less so than he has been on the offensive end. To put it bluntly, his numbers so far are horrific. 25% FG on 6-24 “shooting.” ZERO assists. Unfathomably, ZERO blocked shots (8 KU players have recorded a blocked shot - he ain’t one of them). 9 turnovers, which leads the team. And, it not just the stats - the offense completely bogs down when he is in because he takes up negative space.
Simply put, have him focus solely on rebounding, drawing a few fouls when he gets offensive rebounds, and otherwise mostly stay out of the way. If he can do that, he can be a useful part of the rotation…
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@BeddieKU23 said in After 3 games- Discussion:
No doubt we need Dave. But so far his numbers are negatively impacting the team single handily. Hopefully he can get healthy and practice and slow down and settle and cut down on the issues currently plaguing him.
Agree , and actually kind of the same train of thought as DCHawker said. I think mainly we need for match up grab a few rebounds we may not need him to score alot - -basket here - -basket there work or concentrate on defensive end - -just his presence - -help on the boards – if he scores he scores -we have scorers - just need him in certain situations.
Hell let Jalen go ahead play the 5 if possible - -let Dave back him up a bit I don’t know shows how much I know lol
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@justanotherfan I think the big thing with Tyon is he needs to get healthy.
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I don’t think Dave is as bad of a player as he showed last night. I also don’t believe he’s as good as a 5 star should be. He can be a valuable asset for this team. Generally his shooting seems decent, FT is nice. He just doesn’t play like a guy his size should.
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Another very good post regarding Dave. This sort of reminds me of the Quentin Grimes year and his performance as a starter. He was a big reason that team couldn’t put it all together. I see a lot of similarities already with Dave.
I will give Self credit for switching Wilson to the 5 in the last few games and finding a lineup combination that’s significantly better then others. Normally we don’t see that materialize so quickly. That gives me hope because we know he does look at analytics. He said they haven’t practiced much with 4 guards and Wilson. That lineup has some real chemistry and fight to them.
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@BeddieKU23 have to agree with you. The offense just comes to a halt when everyone tries to feed him. I mean, let’s be honest, the guy doesn’t even really rebound well. When is the Washburn game? Is it televised?
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@Marco ESPN+
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Gethro being behind Mitch, who Self doesn’t even want to play in tight spots, kinda says it all.
The good news is, once he gets stronger he is an interesting option. I think year three in the program is when we see him getting some actual tick.
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@Marco which is weird since I remember Dave being a pretty good rebounder the last 2 years. Could be that he was going up against backup bigs a lot of the time but still I would be a bit optimistic that the rebounding can improve. We haven’t seen anything to indicate that the shot selection and rim protection will come along though.
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Analytics say he’s been a below average rebounder since he’s been here. His Per 40 rebound numbers are poor (hovering in the 11’s in 3 years).
The advanced stats are not better. Doke got his hands on 21% of all rebounds while he was on the floor. Dave so far is at 14%.
Defensive rebounding, Dave is at 20% so far, Doke was at 26.9. That’s a huge gap.
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Dave’s worst stat is his ABSURD usage.
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Yeah 34%. Not sustainable, not even feasible.
You have to shift some of the blame to scheme and what the kids have been taught to do at that point. I get they had a plan to establish Dave in the post. That plan just has to be adjusted now that games have been played
Doke’s usage topped out at 30% Jr year but that was in only 9 games. He averaged around 22 his other years.
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@BeddieKU23 said in After 3 games- Discussion:
Analytics say he’s been a below average rebounder since he’s been here. His Per 40 rebound numbers are poor (hovering in the 11’s in 3 years).
The advanced stats are not better. Doke got his hands on 21% of all rebounds while he was on the floor. Dave so far is at 14%.
Defensive rebounding, Dave is at 20% so far, Doke was at 26.9. That’s a huge gap.
Agreed. Last year, Dave was on the floor almost exactly 1/2 the minutes Doke was, and he had just more than 1/3 the number of rebounds. And, he probably benefited somewhat from occasionally being the second big on the floor and not having to match up against the other teams best big. I would also note that with half the minutes of Doke, he had about 1/8th the number of blocks.
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It maybe unfair to compare Dave to Doke but I use it as the baseline from what we know is good to elite level play from a big man here.
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It isn’t unfair. This is KANSAS. Either you play well or you get criticized.
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@BShark said in After 3 games- Discussion:
Gethro being behind Mitch, who Self doesn’t even want to play in tight spots, kinda says it all.
The good news is, once he gets stronger he is an interesting option. I think year three in the program is when we see him getting some actual tick.
if he is still here in 3 years. - -could be by then if he is not getting time - -he will be gone
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Tonight would be a perfect time to let Gethro get some time - -get his feet wet, little time against some competition - -
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@jayballer67 I disagree. That guy is a player, and will play this year. Mark it.
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@jayballer67 All coach has to do is let him play tonight, and there will be no denying him pt after that.
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You are way off on this imo, there is a reason he isn’t getting off the bench in real game action.
I don’t think he is a transfer risk if he doesn’t play this year. Maybe if he doesn’t play at all next year as well. In that case it’s not really a huge deal anyway.
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Here’s what I got so far:
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Holy crap Dave and Mitch have been bad. There’s some hand wringing about who’s been worse, but it don’t think it matters. One needs to step up for us to make a deep run in March.
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Pleasantly surprised by Ochai and Braun, especially Ochai. Seems like he’s taken the leap we all expected after his FR year. Braun is a baaaaad man.
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Haven’t seen enough from Garrett to really evaluate him at PG. I think he’s definitely better than what he’s shown so far (partially due to health) but he did lead the league in assists last year.
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I want to have DaJuan Harris’s babies.
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Bryce will get there. He’s already shown he can really shoot it and doesn’t have a conscience. The rest will come.
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Can’t wait for Tyon to get healthy. May be an after Christmas deal for him, but he’s probably our best pro prospect and the one guy who can go off-script and make plays.
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Jalen. Wowzer. I’m kind of jaded on offseason hype stories, but he really proved that one to be true. He’s by far our best “big” at the moment. He’s a tough guard for almost any 5 in the country, and has a really good skill level. Watch tf out if his shot starts to fall more consistently. He has very good form, just has to go in more often.
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@Marco said in After 3 games- Discussion:
@jayballer67 I disagree. That guy is a player, and will play this year. Mark it.
he might play but if he is it’s going to be clean up play
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@jayballer67 what, better to go with Dave?
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@Marco said in After 3 games- Discussion:
@jayballer67 what, better to go with Dave?
ya , not only would it be - -it will be. - -More game experience – more bulk, Dave gonna be all right Gethro just isn’t ready other then spot minutes
