K.J. Adams
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Fwiw Adams is a kid that was top 25-30 and then fell off a bit. Similar to Perry but with a different trajectory. Perry iirc was top 5 at one point, maybe just top 10. But he moved around a bit.
I was somewhat down on Grimes as well due to things I heard about him, and was down on KJ and Charlie as well. I thought they were bad fits. I do think Adams is a better fit for Self based on what I’ve seen and read. Obviously I’ve been wrong before as well, I thought Bragg would do well…
Not to go jaybate but Selden was definitely hampered by injuries in his time at KU. Hopefully Bryce stays healthy but I agree he does not have one ultra elite trait.
I have similar concerns with TGF but I think he is going to play a lot because Self loves him.
If Mitch could actually score the ball he would be amazing. But he is great at all the little things, Lucas was too and that plays with Self.
I would also start CB over Agbaji I would like to see Agbaji get down to the 20 minute range but this absolutely will not happen.
I’d crap myself if Enaruna gets to Svi’s level as a shooter. He had a lot of threes that just were not even close. Svi had the bad first year not playing a lot too but it was evident that he would be a good shooter. He was known as a shooter coming in. The other thing is Svi had TRex arms, Enaruna is like a bird with huge wings. This helps his defensive potential enormously and is his path to sticking in the league I think. Just get the shooting to a competent level and engage/understand defense.
Agree on Jalen. If Tristan does get stuck in Europe, Jalen is the main beneficiary imo.
I feel sad for Silvio. He looked lost on offense last year. Like you said everything got knocked off track for him.
The staff seems high on Harris. Agree we don’t know yet, he hasn’t played a minute at KU. The word is he is an excellent pure pg that distributes the ball very well. Teams will likely try to make him actually finish drives as much as possible, because he is pass first.
I feel like Gethro and Jossell were scramble takes while the NCAA crap was at full tilt. It would not shock me if both end up elsewhere.
@justanotherfan I agree and I think developing a great level jump shot is his path to playing at KU. Jerry touches on that in fact (screen cap below). He is absolutely a 4-5 year guy. That’s even being mentioned now, which is fairly rare before guys even get to college. I don’t think he is a starter his first two years, if he’s okay with that then great.
I decided to screencap Jerry’s breakdown for those w/o VIP.
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@jayballer73 You do know at this stage, KJ Adams is nowhere near KU’s top choice in recruits right? There’s a reason why the staff waited until this point to start making a push for Adams and it’s because of other players KU’s staff liked better turned KU down for whatever reason whether it be playing time, fit, possible sanctions, etc.
This is more of KJ Adams being best remaining option rather than best option. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn’t, even for KU.
You have a case like 2011 where Self didn’t plan on the Morris Twins leaving early (still don’t know how he didn’t plan on that even being a possibility) where that class was put together late and only 2 of the 5 ended their college careers at KU and only 1 of 5 was here two year later.
Frank Mason was a similar case as he was the 8th or 9th player Self recruited at PG alone that year.
More times than not though, beginning to recruit a player this late is more of a desperation move than anything else because that player has major holes in his game that may or may not be fixable.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I respect your opinion, but you called Adams a poor man’s Perry Ellis and maybe he is, time will tell (I personally, think he’s more athletic than Ellis). But that being said, Perry Ellis is one of my all-time favorite Jayhawks and all that he did was win.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I do like your debates, you bring something to the forum - which is kind of why we are here in the first place.
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It’s pretty apparent that the staff started making a big push after KB went to Baylor.
It’s certainly been a mixed bag for Self with scramble additions. Mason was an early signing but definitely not the first choice. Some of the PGs I remember that were targeted and missed on before adding Mason: Kasey Hill, Anthony Barber (somewhat KU’s decision to move on), Tyler Ennis, Rysheed Jordan, Demetrius Jackson, Roddy Peters… There might be more, that’s what I remember. Some of these players ended up being worse than Mason. There’s definitely some luck involved.
Cheick Diallo, Brannen Greene, Cliff Alexander, Grimes and Conner Frankamp were all plan A type recruits. Then you have plan A recruits that work out just fine like Dotson, Udoka, Dave, Josh, Garrett, Wiggins, Selden, Embiid, Oubre (almost didn’t but I would say he was a success).
Some other scramble recruits: Svi, Graham, Vick, Billy Preston (does not pick KU if KU gets Ayton, period), Agbaji, Harris, Braun, Wilson, the entire 2011 recruiting class except Ben, Anrio Adams, Landen Lucas.
@Marco Ellis was more athletic than he gets credit for by a large portion of the fan base imo.
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@BShark Dropping 60ish spots is major drop and an indicator that his ceiling/development is limited.
I don’t think Gethro was a desperation move on KU’s end. For a sub 150 recruit, he’s had some other really good offers like Tech, Louisville, and Memphis along with a bunch of other P5 and quality mid major offers. Gethro’s also the player out of this class (KU’s 2020) that I’m highest on long term as a player.
My Bryce Thompson to Selden comparison is the post injury version of Selden that was noticably slower and less athletic than before his injuries.
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@BShark Bigtime, I was not knocking his athleticism (just think that Adams - from what I have seen - is more athletic, is all). Ellis was a smart, team player, not flashy but could score in a variety of ways - including above the rim. I do not recall Ellis ever consistently being a crappy defender either.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Thompson is known as an outside shooter, was Seldon ever called that?
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@Marco KU really didn’t win that much with Ellis. Never made a Final Four and the 2 of the 3 worst seasons under Self happened with Ellis.
Perry was a better athlete than Adams is, but Perry still got shut down and taken out of games with relative ease by good defensive teams.
Ellis will always be a fan favorite, but that doesn’t mean he was a great player. He was a good player, but there’s also a reason why he never got a serious look from the NBA.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Without Ellis those teams (all four of his years) would not have been much of anything.
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@Marco said in K.J. Adams:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Thompson is known as an outside shooter, was Seldon ever called that?
It’s not what he was known for, but Selden was an above average 3 point shooter being in the upper 30% range and Bryce’s shooting ability is a bit overhyped at this point.
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@Marco said in K.J. Adams:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Without Ellis those teams (all four of his years) would not have been much of anything.
My mistake, I was off on Perry’s actual years at KU (since he was allegedly at KU for 15 years according to some). KU only made it to one Elite 8 with Perry. I keep thinking he graduated in 2017 instead of 2016. Perry was a nice player, but he never should’ve been the focal point of the offense of those teams and that’s a big reason why they underachieved so much. A lot of that falls on Self and staff for failing to land better players to help out, but 2011-2014 was a pretty dark time for KU recruiting.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Yep, Self failed by getting someone anticipated to be a project in 2013 who merely became the number 3 pick. Crappy recruiting…
Oh, don’t forget the no. 1 pick that year, too…
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@BShark said in K.J. Adams:
It’s pretty apparent that the staff started making a big push after KB went to Baylor.
Some other scramble recruits: Svi, Graham, Vick, Billy Preston (does not pick KU if KU gets Ayton, period), Agbaji, Harris, Braun, Wilson, the entire 2011 recruiting class except Ben, Anrio Adams, Landen Lucas.
Rio Adams and Landen Lucas were 2012 recruits, not 2011. 2011 was McLemore, Traylor, Naadir Tharpe, Merv Lindsey, and Braeden Anderson.
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@mayjay said in K.J. Adams:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Yep, Self failed by getting someone anticipated to be a project in 2013 who merely became the number 3 pick. Crappy recruiting…
Oh, don’t forget the no. 1 pick that year, too…
My bad, 2010-2012 was the shit recruiting for KU. As for 2013, great talent, but damn sure didn’t hp KU win any more games that year considering they lost 10 games for the first time under Self and got their asses handed to them by Stanford in the 2nd round that season in the NCAA tournament. That group was arguably the most talented group Self has ever had, but was also by far Self’s worst KU team until the 2018-2019 team came along.
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So, and what of this past season’s team? A total recruiting bust when going up and down the lineup? I am telling you, if Adams signs he is not going to be a chump. When all is said and done (if indeed, he does sign, and I guess we are all assuming that he will) if I am wrong I’ll be the first to admit it. Kind of like I was, so far, about Enaruna.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I know that’s why I listed them by name instead of “the 2011 class other than Ben”. Since Ben was the only plan A recruit taken in that class.
The dearth of good recruits between 2010-2012 is what led to the need for such a large immediate impact class of 2013. You will always end up having some attrition when you take a class that big. Overall, it went about as good as you could hope for but I wasn’t surprised when it ended in tournament failure. It’s best to avoid requiring such a large class of immediate contributors if possible.
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@BShark This was your exact wording, “…2011 recruiting class except Ben, Anrio Adams, Landen Lucas.”
The teacher in me reads that as you saying Adams and Lucas were part of the 2011 class, not that Adams and Lucas were part of the 2012 class.
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That was meant to be listed as one name essentially instead of listing off the other 4 members of that class. It could have been better if I put that last.
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@Marco said in K.J. Adams:
So, and what of this past season’s team? A total recruiting bust when going up and down the lineup? I am telling you, if Adams signs he is not going to be a chump. When all is said and done (if indeed, he does sign, and I guess we are all assuming that he will) if I am wrong I’ll be the first to admit it. Kind of like I was, so far, about Enaruna.
If Adams signs, it’s going to be awhile before he ever plays meaningful minutes because he plays a position KU has zero need for in the 2021 class. His best case scenario at this point for minutes is for Enaruna to be unable to return to the US due to Corona and decide to turn pro and stay in Europe and Zach Clemence to end up playing the 5 which opens a path for Adams to get minutes in year two. Even in that scenario, Adams would be a starter until year 4 after Wilson left.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in K.J. Adams:
If Adams signs, it’s going to be awhile before he ever plays meaningful minutes because he plays a position KU has zero need for in the 2021 class.
It’s interesting to me that the staff felt they needed to go after someone at this position. Maybe they are expecting a departure that we are not, maybe it’s just about filling the roster out because I do think this will end up being a 5 man class. It almost never happens where every underclassman stays.
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@BShark said in K.J. Adams:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in K.J. Adams:
If Adams signs, it’s going to be awhile before he ever plays meaningful minutes because he plays a position KU has zero need for in the 2021 class.
It’s interesting to me that the staff felt they needed to go after someone at this position. Maybe they are expecting a departure that we are not, maybe it’s just about filling the roster out because I do think this will end up being a 5 man class. It almost never happens where every underclassman stays.
Enaruna staying in Europe or Wilson transferring are the most likely scenarios of unexpected departures that would make the staff look at someone like Adams to me. I know Jossell seems like a prime transfer option as well, but he wouldn’t impact KU looking at Adams so I’m leaning towards Enaruna or Wilson not coming back with Enaruna being the more likely option at this point due to Covid.
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Texas hawk 10 your so wrong on Thompson. The guys going to be a stud he’s already taller then he was in High school and he’s a sharp shooter. He’s a first round pick easy! Obviously we need some top 30 talent to be a great team but a foundation of that 2008 title team had a lot of solid top 100 guys (Kaun, Robinson, Jackson). Garret has been a great player and he wasn’t a top 20 player. Even trob wasn’t top 15. Last final four team didn’t have a nba first rounder and was great. Yeah NCAA vilolations and unchecked Nike recruitment of guys to duke and Uk Is hurting ku but Virginia, Villanova all won titles with 3-4 year guys. And by the way kJ is exactly like the Villanova big guys that destroyed ku in the final four. 6”7 shooting big guys with muscle so they don’t get pushed around.
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@jayhawks2010 his three ball and athleticism are not really on the level of a Mikal Bridges or Eric Paschall. Best case he turns out a Kris Jenkins type stint. While Nova does have lots of multi-year guys, their two title teams had 6 and 5 NBA players each. Jalen Brunson inexplicably stayed a third year. NBA talent matters.
I am pretty much in the middle with Adams. It’s impossible to know what he will end up being, but he is worth an offer/signing to find out, imo.
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@jayhawks2010 said in K.J. Adams:
Texas hawk 10 your so wrong on Thompson. The guys going to be a stud he’s already taller then he was in High school and he’s a sharp shooter. He’s a first round pick easy! Obviously we need some top 30 talent to be a great team but a foundation of that 2008 title team had a lot of solid top 100 guys (Kaun, Robinson, Jackson). Garret has been a great player and he wasn’t a top 20 player. Even trob wasn’t top 15. Last final four team didn’t have a nba first rounder and was great. Yeah NCAA vilolations and unchecked Nike recruitment of guys to duke and Uk Is hurting ku but Virginia, Villanova all won titles with 3-4 year guys. And by the way kJ is exactly like the Villanova big guys that destroyed ku in the final four. 6”7 shooting big guys with muscle so they don’t get pushed around.
Please point to statistical evidence that Bryce Thompson is a sharpshooter and not what a scout says based on his shooting form.
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I guarantee he will shoot 38% or higher from 3. And what’s the negative attitude on a top 25 recruit? The kid is a stud! If we want to break down a player, Kendall brown had a high dribble and no outside shot lol. Red flags right there
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Villanova had nba talent but there guys were like Devonte or svi they weren’t top 20 recruits across the board. they developed into nba players
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@jayhawks2010 I was excited as our staff about signing him!
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You can’t just look at the rankings and size/build of a player and assume similar results. You have to look at how they perform in game and try to extrapolate. The points and concerns raised about Adams are definitely valid.
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@jayhawks2010 said in K.J. Adams:
I guarantee he will shoot 38% or higher from 3. And what’s the negative attitude on a top 25 recruit? The kid is a stud! If we want to break down a player, Kendall brown had a high dribble and no outside shot lol. Red flags right there
Shooting percentages very rarely increase when someone moves up in competition.
I’m also trying to figure out why you think me basically saying Bryce Thompson’s not going to be an all-world player out of the gate is me having a negative attitude towards him. He’s a very good player, but he has deficiencies in his game at this point which is why he’s only a 20-25 ranked player.
I also don’t think a post injury Wayne Selden comparison is a negative thing either because Selden was a very good player for KU during his 3 years even if Selden was never a superstar player.
Don’t be shocked when Bryce doesn’t meet you expectations as a freshman and isn’t a OAD player.
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I would be thrilled if we get Bryce for three years, guessing two.
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@BShark me too! Plus fans, what fans? Are going to love him! Great kid and family.
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@BShark said in K.J. Adams:
I would be thrilled if we get Bryce for three years, guessing two.
YA , me too , thinking two years for Bryce, yet who knows MAYBE shock us and stay 3 doubt it though. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in K.J. Adams:
@jayhawks2010 said in K.J. Adams:
Texas hawk 10 your so wrong on Thompson. The guys going to be a stud he’s already taller then he was in High school and he’s a sharp shooter. He’s a first round pick easy! Obviously we need some top 30 talent to be a great team but a foundation of that 2008 title team had a lot of solid top 100 guys (Kaun, Robinson, Jackson). Garret has been a great player and he wasn’t a top 20 player. Even trob wasn’t top 15. Last final four team didn’t have a nba first rounder and was great. Yeah NCAA vilolations and unchecked Nike recruitment of guys to duke and Uk Is hurting ku but Virginia, Villanova all won titles with 3-4 year guys. And by the way kJ is exactly like the Villanova big guys that destroyed ku in the final four. 6”7 shooting big guys with muscle so they don’t get pushed around.
Please point to statistical evidence that Bryce Thompson is a sharpshooter and not what a scout says based on his shooting form.
"Thompson is one of the better perimeter scorers in the 2020 class. He averaged 24.4 points and shot 45.8 percent from 3-point range for the Oklahoma Run PWP grassroots program on the UA Association circuit last spring and summer.
“Thompson is one of the most improved players in the senior class,” ESPN national recruiting director Paul Biancardi said. “He has a tremendous knack in scoring the ball. His ability to make open shots and contested shots is impressive. His passing skills are better than most know about. He’s a high-end, go-to recruit for Kansas.”
Kid can really stroke it from deep.
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@FarmerJayhawk I’m not seeing where he averaged 24 PPG on Oklahoma PWP’s site for last year, I’m seeing Bryce at 16 PPG.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in K.J. Adams:
@FarmerJayhawk I’m not seeing where he averaged 24 PPG on Oklahoma PWP’s site for last year, I’m seeing Bryce at 16 PPG.
Those are the spring session stats from 18; the game log stops at 7/13/18. Missing an entire year of AAU competition. The UAA’s site is down so I can’t get to the 2019 stats.
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Yeah Bryce got a LOT better the last year or so.
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@BShark said in K.J. Adams:
Yeah Bryce got a LOT better the last year or so.
UAA’s Twitter says he won the scoring title in that circuit last summer so that’s pretty neat
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@FarmerJayhawk I remember those stats you listed as well. They used to be up on the AAU site.
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@BShark said in K.J. Adams:
@FarmerJayhawk I remember those stats you listed as well. They used to be up on the AAU site.
Yeah, I think UA basically shut down its grassroots operation because of covid. No reason to keep the site up if there aren’t any games. Wish I would’ve saved them. Oklahoma never published his senior stats either so can’t find those.
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The Oracle has spoken. https://twitter.com/andrew__slater/status/1288992324341698560?s=21
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@FarmerJayhawk said in K.J. Adams:
The Oracle has spoken. https://twitter.com/andrew__slater/status/1288992324341698560?s=21
Yep it will be ku
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Really enjoying all the posts.
Concerning KJ… my opinion is only based on these two clips. What I see, I like. I see a young man who will probably be here for 3 to 4 years, but can offer some contribution from day 1. He still has another year of high school ball, and I bet he either puts on more height or girth, maybe both. He has a great build already, and that means he’s a guy that won’t be restricted in his early days at Kansas as we wait for physical development.
I wouldn’t say he’s a super fast twitch player, but then, he has muscle mass as a junior in high school. He may fool some people at Kansas and suddenly be called a “late bloomer.” I see aggressiveness, and you really can’t teach that. Add that with size and strength and how can anyone think he won’t contribute. I don’t see how anyone can put him in the same breath as Ellis or Lawson. His aggressiveness and body separate him completely.
I may be trying to paint him with rosy glasses… but I wonder if what is mistaken for slow twitch is a guy who just plays under control. We’ve experienced off-the-charts fast twitch with players like Wiggins… who really couldn’t translate that on the court. Granted… OAD!
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Lawson was extremely aggressive on offense. I would say too aggressive in some circumstances but that was a fairly bad team that lacked shot makers/creators and he was needed to take on an offensive load.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in K.J. Adams:
The Oracle has spoken. https://twitter.com/andrew__slater/status/1288992324341698560?s=21
curious as to why I don’t see Slater’s pick off 247 -don’t find his CB - -found a couple of new ones for us - -giving us all 10 CB’S does slater not work for 247 anymore ?
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@jayballer73 Slater isn’t associated with 247 anymore and I believe he can no longer cm pick. He essentially gives his picks by tweeting now.
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@drgnslayr said in K.J. Adams:
Really enjoying all the posts.
Concerning KJ… my opinion is only based on these two clips. What I see, I like. I see a young man who will probably be here for 3 to 4 years, but can offer some contribution from day 1. He still has another year of high school ball, and I bet he either puts on more height or girth, maybe both. He has a great build already, and that means he’s a guy that won’t be restricted in his early days at Kansas as we wait for physical development.
I wouldn’t say he’s a super fast twitch player, but then, he has muscle mass as a junior in high school. He may fool some people at Kansas and suddenly be called a “late bloomer.” I see aggressiveness, and you really can’t teach that. Add that with size and strength and how can anyone think he won’t contribute. I don’t see how anyone can put him in the same breath as Ellis or Lawson. His aggressiveness and body separate him completely.
I may be trying to paint him with rosy glasses… but I wonder if what is mistaken for slow twitch is a guy who just plays under control. We’ve experienced off-the-charts fast twitch with players like Wiggins… who really couldn’t translate that on the court. Granted… OAD!
My Perry and Dedric comparison isn’t a comparison of playing style or skill set or mentality. Perry and Dedric were not very athletic and we’re often shut down and taken out of games by good defenses. Hell, good defenses shut Doke down last year and was an NPOY candidate, but still only a notch or two more athletic than Perry or Dedric. KJ Adams has similar athleticism to Perry and Dedric which means he’s going to have plenty of nights throughout his career where’s he’s going to struggle to get into any kind of rhythm. It also means he’s more than likely going to be a big liability on defense similar to how Perry was.
Andrew Wiggins didn’t have and issue with his physical abilities, his issues have always been between his ears. He’s never been an aggressive player and that’s always been the root of his issues, not translating his skills to games.
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Man your just all over this athleticism thing aren’t you. Have you seen this kid in person several times? From the videos I watch the kid doesn’t look that unathletic. The kid is suppose to be a good rebounder and has a lot of great traits. Sure he’s not Zion vertical out there, if he was, he would be a top 20 pick lol. Strength and lateral quickness are also a big part of athleticism. Just bc you can jump doesn’t mean your necessarily a good defender or athletic. There have been plenty of super athletic players at ku that have been flops or mediocre bc they had poor coordination/skills etc. hell if the kid is even half of what Lawson or Ellis were he’s a good pickup. Sorry the staff missed out on Kendall brown but get over it
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@jayhawks2010 said in K.J. Adams:
Man your just all over this athleticism thing aren’t you. Have you seen this kid in person several times? From the videos I watch the kid doesn’t look that unathletic. The kid is suppose to be a good rebounder and has a lot of great traits. Sure he’s not Zion vertical out there, if he was, he would be a top 20 pick lol. Strength and lateral quickness are also a big part of athleticism. Just bc you can jump doesn’t mean your necessarily a good defender or athletic. There have been plenty of super athletic players at ku that have been flops or mediocre bc they had poor coordination/skills etc. hell if the kid is even half of what Lawson or Ellis were he’s a good pickup. Sorry the staff missed out on Kendall brown but get over it
Have you seen this kid in person several times? From the videos I watch the kid doesn’t look that unathletic.
Have I seen Adams in person? No. I just coach basketball and know what to look for in evaluating a player. I also know the level of competition in the Austin area where he played is shit so his numbers were put up against bad competition. Westlake played one good program last year, which just so happened to be Sunrise, and got ran out of the gym by Sunrinse.
Strength and lateral quickness are also a big part of athleticism. Just bc you can jump doesn’t mean your necessarily a good defender or athletic. There have been plenty of super athletic players at ku that have been flops or mediocre bc they had poor coordination/skills etc.
Adams is strong for his age, but he doesn’t have good lateral quickness. He’s not someone who’s ever going to be a good defender and doesn’t appear to have the length to be able to play at the 5 either. There’s a reason why KJ has plummeted down the recruiting rankings in the last year or so and the ceiling on his game due to his limited athleticism is a big reason why.
I agree with your second part since it doesn’t appear you are aware of my thoughts on Agbaji. I’m not going to sing the praises of anyone who’s athletic just because they’re athletic when there’s not much skill to go with it, like Ochai Agbaji. Agbaji’s only positive attribute on the floor right now is that he’s an above average defender on ball defender, but even that comes with the caveat that when he’s off the ball, he’s prone to mental lapses and losing his man when his man is moving without the ball.
if the kid is even half of what Lawson or Ellis were he’s a good pickup. Sorry the staff missed out on Kendall brown but get over it
Adams and Brown don’t play the same position so my thoughts on each player have nothing to do with the other, so my thoughts on KJ Adams would be the same regardless of whether or not KU had landed Brown. Kendall Brown is a very good player, but like Adams, doesn’t play a position of need for KU. As a 3, Brown would mostly be fighting with Christian Braun and Agbaji for minutes whereas Baylor doesn’t have much competition at the wing spot when Brown will arrive as the spot is currently manned by probably the second best defender in nation behind Garrett in Mark Vital.
