KSU Student is Racist
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@approxinfinity said in KSU Student is Racist:
@mayjay maybe, maybe not.
@Texas-Hawk-10 both of you are assuming to know the kid’s mindset. The stated value of that organization that you listed are not specifically racist. EDIT: see @ajvan 's response below. Said more clearly to this point.
What’s wrong with just calling someone an a-hole instead of a racist?
I think throwing around the racist moniker is divisive in ways you aren’t feeling fully atm. I completely understand why people are upset rn.
If the kid was just an asshole, I’d call him an asshole. If you didn’t grow up with people belonging to groups like this and seeing how they talk, what their hearts are, it’d very easy to dismiss those stated values as innocent instead of its implicit racism.
Let me break this down for you since you want to be so dismissive and enabling of racism in this country.
Compare America First’s core values to the core values of Westboro Baptist, and you won’t find much difference.
You and @ajvan are either deliberately ignoring the historical connotations of these phrases and the implicitly racist and prejudiced nature of these specific phrases or ignorant to their connotations. This is exactly why groups like America First state their beliefs the way they do. They sound perfectly innocent until you dig a little deeper and realize strong borders is code for discrimination against Hispanics, traditional families is code for discriminating against the LGBT community, and Christian values is code for segregation because Sunday mornings is the most segregated time in America.
If you doubt my explanations, I would highly recommend you take at least a couple of hours and do some real research on these matters.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I don’t think either of us want to be enabling and dismissive of racism.
But if you want to tell me about my character, who am I to argue otherwise, right?
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@Texas-Hawk-10 look man. I’ve had some very very tough conversations with a relative of mine. His views about immigrants frustrate the hell out of me. Could I call him a racist? I guess, but I don’t think that would solve anything. Could I call his views racist? Sure, I’ve said that to his face. That is a little more constructive but it still seems to just add to the wall around his views. Could I talk about bias and not make it personal? Sure, he might actually change his mind a little but then he’d go back to watching Fox News and revert any progress.
What’s my point? The less personal you make it, the more likely you have meaningful interaction. Right now people want to burn other people down to the ground and I get why. But is it productive?
Like I said, this kid may be a racist by most people’s standards. But this statement alone isn’t. Does your interpretation of context make sense? Yes, it does. I see where you’re coming from. But even if you label him as implicitly racist and say that doesn’t mean he should be punished, others who are seeking punishment want confirmation that he’s a racist so they can run him out of town.
And frankly, I’ve heard a lot of kids say a lot of insensitive things about a lot of different topics and people. Are jokes about Bill Cosby or Michael Jackson racist? No, not implicitly. I’ve heard many, but I didn’t consider them racist. Just because these figures were black icons does not make jokes about them racist.
I do agree that the timing is awful and saying this right now about Floyd when people are hurting is shitty. But it seems as easily identified as contrarían. It would not be the first time that someone said something on Twitter to get a reaction.
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If everyone reads through his timeline, it’s very, very difficult to come to any other conclusion other than the dude is a raging racist.
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@FarmerJayhawk I looked but just saw a bunch of retweets. I’m not sure what I’m looking for or where to look. I don’t use Twitter much so it may just be my ignorance.
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@approxinfinity Sugar coating racism and calling something other than what it is doesn’t help in making real sustainable change going forward.
This is a lesson I have to teach my students every year about the 1st Amendment and how it works. Freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom from the consequences of using that right. Legally, KSU doesn’t have a leg to stand on in regards to actions like kicking him out of school without possible repercussions of a discrimination lawsuit because all he did was express his opinion.
The consequences of this kid expressing this opinion and running a group like America First are probably going to be a much more limited job prospects because most companies aren’t going to want someone who publicly expresses beliefs like his working for them. He’s so likely going to have to deactivate his Twitter and other social media accounts because of the amount of hate messages he’s receiving and will continue to receive.
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@ajvan said in KSU Student is Racist:
Many, many people have a problem with the way Floyd’s character has been polished up (after his death) to fit the narrative.
I’m not aware that the character of a victim of murder has anything to do with it. Passing a counterfeit bill, or doing so while being a drug user, is not a capital offense.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Unfortunately, there are thousands of places he could get warmly welcomed for those same views. A certain law firm comes to mind…
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@mayjay I think you’re getting side tracked with trying to argue against a point of view when @ajvan was not trying to justify the reasoning for that point of view ( why people might have want to express a negative opinion about Floyd because his shortcomings are glossed over). His point, I believe, is just to acknowledge that this is a common point of view.
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Guys. How can we go after a kid here when we’ve got a president saying this shit daily and a major news company saying it as well? I mean isnt that the elephant in the room?
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@approxinfinity said in KSU Student is Racist:
@FarmerJayhawk I looked but just saw a bunch of retweets. I’m not sure what I’m looking for or where to look. I don’t use Twitter much so it may just be my ignorance.
Part of the problem now might be if he has been really active you’d have to scroll down a lot to get to older tweets. I’ve been on twitter too much today already to want to look.
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@approxinfinity Yeah that is the problem. But if you can’t identify that statement as racist it gives cover to all the crap that idiot says too. We know it’s racism even if technically you can’t exactly point to how. Why defend it. Agree he shouldn’t be expelled but could be removed from groups, programs, and other stuff with code of conduct policies.
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@benshawks08 Defending our freedom of speech isn’t about defending only things people say that we like.
But if you can’t identify that statement as racist it gives cover to all the crap that idiot says too.
This reads like “You’re either with us or against us”.
We know it’s racism even if technically you can’t exactly point to how.
You can’t exactly point to how either.
I don’t want this country to be shoot first and ask questions later.
Caution is appropriate here.
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I’m honestly shocked how much press this has gotten.
Breaking news: Asshole kid says asshole thing.
No he shouldn’t be expelled. He should have to show his face every day on that campus. Don’t give him (and he’s already trying to do this) a sap story where he is the victim. Make him explain this tweet in every job interview he will have.
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@approxinfinity We have been through this before. You pretty much seem to want racist statements to be accompanied by a signed affidavit by the person making it that he or she is a racist.
I have not seen a single thing saying he was misunderstood. But we don’t get Kansas news feeds here.
I hope he can get some gentle counseling to assuage his tender self from us name-calling bullies.
Incidentally, no one you are responding to has said anything that would undermine this jerk’s 1st A rights
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@mayjay people are coming out from everywhere defending this kid, offering money for him to sue the school. Also fueling the fire.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Defending the post, his character, or his right to say it?
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@mayjay said in KSU Student is Racist:
@Crimsonorblue22 Defending the post, his character, or his right to say it?
Looking at social media, yes.
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@approxinfinity If it takes someone saying “I hate black people” or wearing a white hood for you to be comfortable identifying it as racism, you are missing about 99% of racism.
@Texas-Hawk-10 did a good job above explaining just how it was racism. It is YOU who is struggling to see it. I do racist stuff all the time unknowingly and without intent. I fail to notice how certain things are actually racist ALL the time. We ALL do. Does that make me racist? Yeah. Sometimes it does. Am I ok with that? No, but I work to learn and do better. Yes it’s uncomfortable, but not nearly as uncomfortable for me as for the people who are on the receiving end of that racism.
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@approxinfinity said in KSU Student is Racist:
@benshawks08 Defending our freedom of speech isn’t about defending only things people say that we like.
But if you can’t identify that statement as racist it gives cover to all the crap that idiot says too.
This reads like “You’re either with us or against us”.
We know it’s racism even if technically you can’t exactly point to how.
You can’t exactly point to how either.
I don’t want this country to be shoot first and ask questions later.
Caution is appropriate here.
Critical Race Theory is explicitly “you’re with us or against us.” From Kendi, “The opposite of “racist” isn’t “not racist.” It is “anti-racist.” What’s the difference? One endorses either the idea of a racial hierarchy as a racist, or racial equality as an antiracist. One either believes problems are rooted in groups of people, as a racist, or locates the roots of problems in power and policies, as an anti-racist. One either allows racial inequities to persevere, as a racist, or confronts racial inequities, as an antiracist. There is no in-between safe space of “not racist.” The claim of “not racist” neutrality is a mask for racism. This may seem harsh, but it’s important at the outset that we apply one of the core principles of antiracism, which is to return the word “racist” itself back to its proper usage. “Racist” is not—as Richard Spencer argues—a pejorative. It is not the worst word in the English language; it is not the equivalent of a slur. It is descriptive, and the only way to undo racism is to consistently identify and describe it—and then dismantle it.”
So if you’re any kind of classical liberal who believes individualism > group identity, sorry bout it. You’re a racist unless you buy into every word of the emotional toxic sewage that Kendi and grifters like Robin DeAngelo scribble.
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@FarmerJayhawk I don’t think some nerd in an ivory tower gets to decide what a word means and strip away hundreds of years of connotation. Racist is among the worst perjoratives in this country and that isn’t changing any time soon.
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@FarmerJayhawk furthermore, I am antiracist. But “what is racist?” is what we are debating. And the fact that it is debatable, and I believe it is, makes critical race theory as you’ve defined it, pretty impractical.
I haven’t seen the kids other comments. But I don’t believe this comment is isolation is racist. That is all I am arguing.
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Any sort of dichotomy as it applies to the human condition is artificial. I have an uneasy peace with it when it comes to sports.
The longest paper I wrote at college was about artificial dichotomies : capitalism vs communism, conservative vs liberal, winners and losers, etc. When you look at them closely, they all fall apart. Critical race theory sounds to be no different.
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@mayjay all of it!
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@benshawks08 I think what you define as racist is what I define as unconscious bias. The reason this matters is because I’m not subscribing to the guilt of being a racist. I’m not a racist. Sure, you and I both have unconscious biases. And that’s ok. Some we can live with, some we may actively seek to change when we become aware of them. We aren’t racists as I define it.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 @mayjay @benshawks08 We need to cancel the feel bad culture and find a way to move forward positively. You’re never going to make meaningful change if you’re trying to defeat the other half of this country and make them bend the knee to how you see things. Frankly, what @HighEliteMajor said about “DESTROYING YOU” may have more in common with your approach to this issue than you think. It is a mirror.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 “deliberately ignoring the historical connotations of these phrases…”
If you’re making the argument that America First is a racist organization with a history of racism, that’s fine. I haven’t done the research and don’t intend to. But I’ve met plenty of people who use the phrases “strong borders,” “Christian values,” etc., and there’s no coded message. They’re not in on the joke. When people start claiming to know what another person really meant when he said that, things get ridiculous.
@mayjay “I’m not aware that the character of a victim of murder has anything to do with it. Passing a counterfeit bill, or doing so while being a drug user, is not a capital offense.”
Not sure what I said you’re responding to here.
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@approxinfinity this does make some sense. Hyper policing language doesn’t alleviate hatred, in fact it can make it worse. Super far left types hammering people for wrong think is an effective recruiting tool for the alt right. Moreover if everyone is hating each other ie men vs women, black vs white then most people can’t even focus on really important issues like climate change. I’m obviously liberal but this culture and how to think war isn’t the best.
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THIS IS @approxinfinity ACCIDENTALLY HIJACKING AND MANGLING @benshawks08 'S POST. SORRY.
@benshawks08 said:
I also think the dominate culture in this country has underplayed racist ideologies for so long that a little rocking of that boat is a good and necessary thing.
I don’t think we need more radicalized idealogues in this country to be an opposite (and perpetuating) counterweight to the alt-right stuff we’ve seen under Trump. That will not solve the problem.
I don’t think we need to rock the boat. We need to stabilize the boat. It’s already rocking.
If you mean taking down the statues, reforming police and looking at income equality starting with better public elementary education for all, then by all means let’s rock it.
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@benshawks08 said in KSU Student is Racist:
@benshawks08 said:
I also think the dominate culture in this country has underplayed racist ideologies for so long that a little rocking of that boat is a good and necessary thing.
I don’t think we need more radicalized idealogues in this country to be an opposite (and perpetuating) counterweight to the alt-right stuff we’ve seen under Trump. That will not solve the problem.
I don’t think we need to rock the boat. We need to stabilize the boat. It’s already rocking.
I didn’t write this.
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Crap @benshawks08 I was trying to quote you. Sorry man.
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Figured something weird was happening.
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I agree the boat is unstable but on race it has been heavily listing to one direction. Gotta push to get it back to level. Especially with so many people with so much weight (The president, racist cops, Tom cotton, etc.) leaning in.
Also, not sure I’d define my stance as radical but I obviously don’t get to decide that.
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@benshawks08 Umm. I don’t think I can get your post back without digging into the database.
You had good points in the post.
@FarmerJayhawk he said he just got Kendis book and was looking forward to reading it fully but didn’t think he interpreted what Kendi had to say as you did and wanted to discuss more.
Also you said that you recommend Grandmother’s Hands, a book about the psychology of trauma and there is a section about race.
I see you man
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@approxinfinity said in KSU Student is Racist:
@benshawks08 Umm. I don’t think I can get your post back without digging into the database.
You had good points in the post.
@FarmerJayhawk he said he just got Kendis book and was looking forward to reading it fully but didn’t think he interpreted what Kendi had to say as you did and wanted to discuss more.
Also you said that you recommend Grandmother’s Hands, a book about the psychology of trauma and there is a section about race.
I see you man
CENSORSHIP!!! THIS IS EXACTLY WHY DESPOTIC POWER DOESNT WORK! Give the power to the people!!! J/k. Mistakes happen. Thanks for all you do to keep THIS boat afloat.
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I like the boat analogy for another reason. I’m just sitting here thinking, what does a boat that is listing to one side do? Goes in circles. Seems apt.
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@benshawks08 but isn’t rocking the boat the last thing you want to do when it’s listing?
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@approxinfinity who started this ship metaphor anyway. I think it’s stupid. What am I a boat captain now? (Me. I started it)
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https://twitter.com/dukembb/status/1276621259116171269?s=21
I dislike this man but think it’s interesting that this statement would have been a radical view 5 years ago. It doesn’t seem radical to me now. And as calculating a person as k is I can’t imagine he feels it’s too radical either. Am I off?
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@benshawks08 i thought he was talking to a 5 yr old. He’s trying to hard. Self is so much better! Anyone listen to the zoom call with the Star w/self, cuonzo Martin, Dayton Moore and 3 other leaders from the area?
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@benshawks08 said in KSU Student is Racist:
https://twitter.com/dukembb/status/1276621259116171269?s=21
I dislike this man but think it’s interesting that this statement would have been a radical view 5 years ago. It doesn’t seem radical to me now. And as calculating a person as k is I can’t imagine he feels it’s too radical either. Am I off?
Still 90% chance he votes for Trump. K is a big Republican.
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@FarmerJayhawk actions speak louder than words. He would never admit it though.
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It will be interesting with KSUCK football this fall, all the back woods hillbillies that fill that crap hole on Saturday may not like the players standing up to this.
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@kjayhawks it appears they don’t!
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Does this count as racism?
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And the defense: “sarcasm”
https://twitter.com/rbpundit/status/1277241745764487169?s=21
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Wow. Donald Trump Implosion 2020. Even if it is sarcasm it doesn’t matter. Retweeting that is so dumb. Trump just doesn’t care any more.
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I’m voting Amash, new video is going around twitter with Biden saying the N word. Let’s move on from the 2 party system that has crippled America!!
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Amash dropped. @kjayhawks
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@kjayhawks said in KSU Student is Racist:
I’m voting Amash, new video is going around twitter with Biden saying the N word. Let’s move on from the 2 party system that has crippled America!!
For someone claiming not to trust things, I assume you researched the context of that video? Is it the one where he is in a Senate hearing in 1985 and is reading a quote from someone? Or the one where Sean Hannity lied about Biden saying a “horrible word” that Fox bleeped out, when the word he used was “Negro”?
No citation in your post leaves you appearing to endorse the contention that Biden used the n-word as an epithet. Nice job of helping out the other guy.
