Trouble?
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@kjayhawks just hope you’re not whipping them w/a belt.
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@benshawks08 I dont believe @HighEliteMajor is trying to be racist personally. I think he can be harsh for sure though. It is our responsibility a residents in this country and of the world to help whom ever we can. I just wished more people in Washington and these celebrities that claim to care would step up do something besides put their name on gym and never return. If I won the lottery I would spend every dime with children in the inner city, the foster children that age out of care and are left in the street and a big rescue center for animals.
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@Crimsonorblue22 It is against the law to punish a foster with physical harm. I dont believe in belts. Standing the corner is my go to, then explaining to them in matter they can relate to as to why it was wrong.
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@kjayhawks I’d hope most people aren’t trying to be racist in 2019. I’m sure most don’t feel they are but it doesn’t mean the things they say and do aren’t. Being accidentally racist doesn’t make someone a bad person. Now, having it pointed out and continuing without changing starts a different story. An open mind is a wonderful thing. Open to learning about others and most importantly learning about ourselves.
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@Crimsonorblue22 honestly I’m against spanking in general. I don’t want my children to fear failure or feel like they will be physically attacked. I want my kids to understand mentally what’s right and wrong.
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@Crimsonorblue22 The personal responsibility folks are going to lose it over this, but research shows punishment in general has a negative impact on future behavior. Positive reinforcement is much better at eliminating negative behaviors. Same for dogs, kids and adults.
Decision is do you want to feel good about punishing someone or do you want to change the behavior. For some people the feeling is more important.
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You don’t need money to make a difference, look at @wissox. I’m sure he could be working somewhere else and making much more money. It’s on his heart to work w/inner city kids, not continually gripe about them. He is making a difference, as well as @benshawks08 wherever he is teaching. There are probably more good people on here that are teachers, coaches and/or mentors to kids.
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@benshawks08 It’s easy to cry racist. Simple minded, of course. Easy. The “go to” when facts get in the way. I knew of course when I mentioned my black friend, and I have one, you’d make that comment. I have another that I consider a friend, an architect, but we’ve not been in contact as our kids went to different high schools. Your simplistic mocking of that portion of my comment truly defines your shallowness on this topic. That’s leftist playbook 101.
Oh, emotions are good. They can many time lead to the correct conclusions. But here, your (and others) emotions and feelings drive you away from facts and logic. Your empathy for human suffering, for kids that did nothing to cause their plight, blind you to the “why.” You and others are overwhelmed by that.
Your convulsive “racist” claims of course define your approach to the facts. Facts you can’t refute. Realities you can’t refute.
And in your response to @kjayhawks, don’t try this, “oh, it happens with white people” stuff. Of course it does. Everything does. We all know that. White people are thugs too. All races. The worst killers in world history have been white – Hitler and Stalin. That culture was toxic and horrific.
We’re talking here and now in America. And we’re talking percentages and degrees. That’s what’s important. Where is the core of violence, who commits it, and why? That’s what we’re talking about.
In 1964, 24% of black kids were born out of wedlock. Last stat known, it was 73% for black kids now (and much higher in the inner city). For whites, it’s about 28% last I saw. If pointing out that troubling reality, and the horrific conduct that is part of the inner city black culture, is racist by your definition, fine.
If you don’t have parents in the home, teaching the proper lessons, what chance does a kid have?
We spend out time wringing our hands over the mass shootings (which are of course horrible too) but we see very little about the inner city carnage? I little kid is shot on his porch and it’s on the third page of the paper. Three get shot and because it’s drug related, we gloss over it. As a conservative, every life is important to me. Every one. And the constant dismissal of this conduct and violence as back page news, or no news, is just repulsive to me.
Finally, your post above, “racism is undeniable.” Correct. That’s easy. But it’s again percentages and degrees. Now, we’re in a much different world and have been for quite a while. There will always be racism. So you always have that to fall back on. Try thinking. Analyzing. Searching for why. Past racism is a part of that answer. I don’t deny that, and never have.
But that excuse/rationale is every decreasing and is now far, far outweighed by opportunity. But when the opportunity is not seized, when folks commit crimes and fail, they rely on you (and others like you) for the ever present excuse – racism. It will always be there for you. Everything with you comes back to racism and that is, by itself, completely illogical.
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@benshawks08 I absolutely hate parents that are excited to spank their kids. My step father was that way. He jump up with a smile on his face and sprint to the belt. Sick SOB he was but that’s another topic.
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@benshawks08 agree!
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@Crimsonorblue22 my wife taught in the some of the rough public schools in St. Louis for several years. We do what we can for sure.
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@HighEliteMajor @benshawks08 That is the issue for me, I do not claim any side when it comes to politics. But right now there is no middle. If I disagree with a Democrat I’m a racist and a Nazi. Which is sickening to compare someone to Hitler or a Nazi. I’ll have to try and find a article that a holocaust survivor wrote about insulting that is to them.
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@HighEliteMajor I only “cry racism” when you write racist things. It’s not every answer but it is an answer you refuse to accept. I ask again where you are getting these percentages not as an argumentative tool but as one of curiosity. Just curious about your source.
Poverty, violence, trauma, racism are cycles and systems that continually feed themselves.
And you are definitely right that opportunity is a huge part of the answer. And just like there are percentages and degrees with racism, those same percentages and degrees exist with opportunity. Does everyone have an opportunity? Sure. The same opportunity? As many opportunities? That’s where you and I don’t see eye to eye.
And no I will never turn off my empathy. I’d encourage you to turn yours up a few notches but you are of course free to do and think what you choose.
If you really care about every life, which I truly think is an honest belief you hold, do some research about work being done to help people and consider funding some with that big salary you try so hard to hold onto. Assigning blame doesn’t actually fix anything.
Appreciation to @Crimsonorblue22 and @kjayhawks and all the others for doing the work.
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It’s CULTURE not race. A few hundred years from now history books will look back at this time and use it as an example that multiculturalism doesn’t work. If you think you are different you are either ignorant or naive. If you think its taught then look at any school cafeteria and see how kids congregate with similar cultures. In school culture is jocks, nerds, artsy types, etc. In real life it’s religion, political belief, family background and culture. Cultures will ALWAYS clash.
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Race is the #1 determining factor in predicting success of students in education. There are other factors but race is #1. Look at test scores, graduation rate, degrees earned, anything.
You can draw two conclusions from that data: The educational system does not serve all students equally based on race.
Or
Students who are not white are not as capable of success.
Hint: the second one is racist.
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@benshawks08 clearly institutionalized problems don’t exist and these non white kids are simply… Yeah I can’t even finish this as a joke.
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BigBad said:
It’s CULTURE not race. A few hundred years from now history books will look back at this time and use it as an example that multiculturalism doesn’t work. If you think you are different you are either ignorant or naive. If you think its taught then look at any school cafeteria and see how kids congregate with similar cultures. In school culture is jocks, nerds, artsy types, etc. In real life it’s religion, political belief, family background and culture. Cultures will ALWAYS clash.
Exactly. Right on point. The issue I’ve discussed deals specifically with what is born from the inner city black culture. There are millions of blacks that don’t subscribe. There are millions of non-blacks that do. Culture. Jason Whitlock described it as cultural rot.
But that doesn’t mean there aren’t other cultural issues that are highly problematic. One that is obvious to me is the rural white meth culture here in mid-America. But you don’t see near the level of violence, not even close.
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HighEliteMajor said:
benshawks08 said:
@HighEliteMajor @bskeet It’s racism. That’s the point you both are bouncing around but never actually touching. White people hate talking about racism because they can’t win anymore. One of you (@bskeet ) understands at least innately if not explicitly that a big factor in this argument is the race a significant population of the players compared to the race of the significant population of the people in power. And so in your arguments you bring up former instances of racism like slavery.
The other (@HighEliteMajor ) definitely understands the racial element but seeks to remove it completely from the conversation because it’s “social justice garbage” and if he pretends race isn’t really a factor he can live in his land of logic where humanity is just weak feelings crap. Anytime someone suggests an idea that might redistribute power from top down, those in power (or at least those that look like those in power) do what they can to maintain that power.
Of course college basketball and slavery aren’t the same thing. Of course there is more choice for a college athlete today than for a slave in the 1800s or for current slaves today in the american penal system. However the RACISM driving the issue and argument is very much the same. It is impossible to discuss the conflict between a workforce made up primarily of people of color and executives who are primarily white without discussing race. I know it’s scary for us whites but we’d be better off it we’d just call it like it is and talk about the stuff we are afraid of.
Some people aren’t going to like this comment because it brings “politics” into a sports conversation but sorry, race is one of the biggest issues in sports right now. White sports fans look at black athletes making millions of dollars or getting “free rides” and think those folks should feel lucky, but ignore the white owners and execs making 100s of millions of dollars and maintaining systems that uphold that economic inequity. I’m sure HEM will argue that the owners “earned” those millions by working harder and being smarter. They didn’t. They aren’t.
Bam. You have said exactly what I’ve suggested. In my mind, it’s all about the poor inner city black kid. That is the core of what has driven this issue.
And I’m sorry, I’m not going to permit my life, my thoughts, my actions, and my concerns to be predicated upon a culture that refuses to help themselves – more appropriately, a self-destructive culture.
Rahm Emanuel, an Obama democrat, the former mayor of Chicago that saw this inner city “culture” firsthand, said:
“This may not be politically correct,” he said, “but I know the power of what faith and family can do. … Our kids need that structure. … I am asking … that we also don’t shy away from a full discussion about the importance of family and faith helping to develop and nurture character, self-respect, a value system and a moral compass that allows kids to know good from bad and right from wrong.”
He added: “If we’re going to solve this … we’ve got to have a real discussion. … Parts of the conversation cannot be off-limits because it’s not politically comfortable. … We are going to discuss issues that have been taboo in years past because they are part of the solution. … We also have a responsibility to help nurture character. It plays a role. Our kids need that moral structure in their lives. And we cannot be scared to have this conversation.”
Of course, there was anger in response, marching, verbal attacks, etc. Zero … I mean zero … mention of personal responsibility from the “other side” of this issue.
I would say that our country would be much better off if we can take what @benshawks08 said, and what Rahm Emanuel said, and honestly address what ails our inner city.
A big hint – the discussion has nothing to do with blaming inanimate objects.
As I’ve said over and over, CHOICE.
Look at my bi-line. “What in America is anyone prohibited from doing, earning, or achieving?” This is what America offers in 2019. Undeniable.
As a conservative, I’ve had it. I’ve had with the glorification of a bankrupt culture (inner city black culture) and with the continued garbage we deal with day in, and day out. To the core of my beliefs, people that hurt people, commit carnage, destroy lives, and have no morality are enemy. They are the enemy of a civil society. I don’t care what they look like. Yet we want to explain away, continually, the repulsive and destructive behavior. It’s disgusting.
I am not afraid to discuss anything, even - oh no! - race (though I think that it should be reserved for political boards, which I do not participate in). The constant but this and but that habbit that this nation so loves while trying to paint over issues is getting old and pathetic. “Yeah, but there is a reason for that!”
“True,” I say, “there may be, but the thing that we are talking about is still there, regardless.”
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HighEliteMajor said:
@benshawks08 Please note the distinction. “Inner city black culture.” It has nothing to do with my black neighbor.
Inner city black culture. You know what it is. I know what it is. We all know what it is. You can turn your back on it, cry racism. I don’t give one good d*** what you think about me.
I care about our country. The absolute violence and carnage brought on our country by the inner city black culture is astounding and unmatched. Don’t talk to me about the 1800s or 1930, or whatever. This is today.
Look at Late Night at AFH and the disgusting show put on in the name of our university. All in the name of ATTRACTING the black athlete. We should all be absolutely embarrassed. This is what is needed to gets kids to sign? Disgusting.
I watched suburban kids try to mimic the disgusting culture. Pants hanging halfway down their a** — an inner city black culture invention to glorify the gangster in jail that has no belt and can’t keep his pants up. Just beautiful.
More importantly than that, a culture of drive by shootings, random acts of carnage, roaming gangs — a culture where choosing to grab a gun and kill someone is ingrained. Daily. Not here and there. DAILY.
Among blacks, 73% of births are out of wedlock. In the inner city, much higher. That has steadily increased since the 60s. To me, this is the most important cause of the inner city destruction we see now.
Worse, black dads with multiple children, with multiple women. It’s an epidemic in the inner city black communities. Heck, look at our BB teams. Who’s got a dad? Whose dad is in jail. Whose mom has the same last name as her son? How many half brothers and half sisters?
This is the plague of the inner city black culture — the answer to the “why.”
And racism is the problem. What a joke.
So don’t give me this racism crap. I don’t care what you call it. I call it reality.
When I see a buddy of mine, a black surgeon, actively trying to keep his kids AWAY from the inner city black culture, that is a huge answer for me. When I hear him discuss it, it cements it.
It’s really sick. We see a “mass” shooting, 10 dead, 20 injured. Horrific. But then we IGNORE the carnage of a single night in Chicago, or a weekend in STL, or you name the Inner city (the deep blue voting areas by no coincidence).
Why? Because the ANSWER makes you uncomfortable. You and others like you operate on feelings. Not facts. You want to normalize abhorrent behavior. You’ll blame everything except the personal behavior.
You are the dangerous enabler. Well intentioned. But when there are so many folks that provide excuses, refuse to demand personal responsibility, we have what we see in the inner cities. It’s easier to give things away than make demands.
Are you proud?
You have offered your opinion, and a well worded thought out one I might add. You have the right to your opinion, and I see nothing wrong with it. Again, ignoring problems is one of this nation’s true weaknesses.
Now I will offer one, the inner city should not be glorified because they are what they are - places that people do not want to live in (even those who live there.
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benshawks08 said:
@HighEliteMajor I only “cry racism” when you write racist things. It’s not every answer but it is an answer you refuse to accept. I ask again where you are getting these percentages not as an argumentative tool but as one of curiosity. Just curious about your source.
Poverty, violence, trauma, racism are cycles and systems that continually feed themselves.
And you are definitely right that opportunity is a huge part of the answer. And just like there are percentages and degrees with racism, those same percentages and degrees exist with opportunity. Does everyone have an opportunity? Sure. The same opportunity? As many opportunities? That’s where you and I don’t see eye to eye.
And no I will never turn off my empathy. I’d encourage you to turn yours up a few notches but you are of course free to do and think what you choose.
If you really care about every life, which I truly think is an honest belief you hold, do some research about work being done to help people and consider funding some with that big salary you try so hard to hold onto. Assigning blame doesn’t actually fix anything.
Appreciation to @Crimsonorblue22 and @kjayhawks and all the others for doing the work.
There are multiple sources for the unwed births, below are just a few. I got the 24% in 1960s from the Brookings study.
The big salary you say I try to hold onto is one that I earn. I don’t actually earn a “salary.” I earn money. What I earn I get (with all the risks and anxiety of running a business including making sure I can pay my employees). You don’t worry about that. But I know that you have other worries – worries nonetheless.
Assigning blame does fix problems. See, you’re a schoolteacher. Good for you. I’m not. I am to find solutions to problems, which is critical to my job, and I have ask “why”. In fact, that is at the core of our disagreement. In your position, you don’t have to ask why. You are in the position of simply helping. In my business, if I don’t solve problems, I’m out of work. I have to ask why. To solve this, we have to ask why. I would also offer that in the pursuit of truth, the question of “why” is key to that endeavor.
And thus you can review the statistics on the issue that drives teh “why” in 2019, that you don’t seem to appreciate.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/77-black-births-to-single-moms-49-for-hispanic-immigrants
https://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/out-wedlock-births-rise-worldwide
https://www.brookings.edu/research/an-analysis-of-out-of-wedlock-births-in-the-united-states/
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There is no clear cut racism. If you hate one group of people, you hate other people as well.
You either love people or you hate people. The color that you hate can change daily.
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@HighEliteMajor We are both talking about our reasons for why. As the lowly school teacher you seem to have so little respect for it might surprise you that I too solve problems every day.
So just so I understand your stance, single black mothers are the biggest problem in our nation. And the reason they are single parents is “black culture.” And this is the driving force of the debate regarding paying ncaa athletes. And none of that has anything to do with racism or white people because “choice.” That about right?
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benshawks08 said:
Race is the #1 determining factor in predicting success of students in education. There are other factors but race is #1. Look at test scores, graduation rate, degrees earned, anything.
You can draw two conclusions from that data: The educational system does not serve all students equally based on race.
Or
Students who are not white are not as capable of success.
Hint: the second one is racist.
You might ask “why.” You don’t want to.
You offer only two conclusions, the concept of which is self-serving and nonsensical. The fact that you posed it this ways indicates that you have no interest in the truth. And it’s funny, you say you don’t want to assign blame but you blame racism. Hmmm.
Of course, Asians achieve, educationally, superior to whites in America. Did you know that?
Why not ask why?
It’s interesting that poverty is linked to out of wedlock births. https://www.usnews.com/news/newsgram/articles/2013/05/06/census-bureau-links-poverty-with-out-of-wedlock-births
And what do you know, Asians out of wedlock births are around 17.7 %. Way lower that white, hispanics, and blacks. One of a number of sources. https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/latest-statistics-out-wedlock-births-roger-clegg/
Guess who makes more money than whites? Right. Asians, https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizations/2018/demo/p60-263/figure1.pdf
Positing a theory here. Asians have mom and dad in the home. Asians have stricter discipline. Asians’ culture fosters achievement. Asians have more humility. Asians are smarter. Asians don’t dish out blame for failure.
When I compare, I compare to myself – to whites.
We should not be scared or afraid to talk about this stuff. We should not be intimidated by folks like @benshawks08 and his ilk. I’m not. They try to intimidate to stop discussion by crying racist, because most folks fear that label. Not me. Truth is more important.
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benshawks08 said:
@HighEliteMajor We are both talking about our reasons for why. As the lowly school teacher you seem to have so little respect for it might surprise you that I too solve problems every day.
So just so I understand your stance, single black mothers are the biggest problem in our nation. And the reason they are single parents is “black culture.” And this is the driving force of the debate regarding paying ncaa athletes. And none of that has anything to do with racism or white people because “choice.” That about right?
Actually, the inner city culture has fostered a significant lack of responsibility by black men. All you have to do is look at the stats. Killings, assaults, violence are part of the story. Multiple kids with multiple women is another part. Again, we see it every day. A culture of violence and moral deprivation. I’m not giving inner city black women a free pass. Far from it. They are part of the culture.
But it is the women that have a raise the kids. They bear the burden. But the men move on. It is an epidemic in the black community.
And black women don’t kill and maim like black men. They are the single most violent and dangerous group in America. Period. Undeniable.
The driving force for paying athletes is the continued, collective weeping for the poor inner city black (male) athlete. The continued blather of how he’s treated unfairly. So, because of that perception, everything in college sports has to change. That’s what drives the entire discussion, the interest from pro athletes, etc.
In fact, the amount of collective time our society spends dealing with the continued issues of inner city black men could be a singular course offering on “opportunity cost.”
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@HighEliteMajor and is the color of Asians skins closer to that of white people or black people? Were Asians systematically brought to this country as slaves? Asians have certainly faced a good share of racism in this country but by percentages and degrees it is far less than the systematic oppression of black people.
Also, what discussion have I stopped or even attempted to stop? I’ve engaged with questions in almost every post encouraging the conversation. Please at least try to be intellectually honest and engage in good faith conversation.
Thanks for the links to the stats.
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@HighEliteMajor Ok, so it’s also and mostly black men and really if you think about it they aren’t even worth the trouble. Got it.
And how often are those black men stopped by the police? If police stopped white people at the same rate how many white men would be in prison for low level drug charges?
You want some why questions to work on? Why in 2019 is there still not equal pay for equal work? Might employers like yourself bare any personal responsibility for that? Nah probably not. I’ve yet to see you take any of that personal responsibility you seem to love so much for anything.
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benshawks08 said:
@HighEliteMajor and is the color of Asians skins closer to that of white people or black people? Were Asians systematically brought to this country as slaves? Asians have certainly faced a good share of racism in this country but by percentages and degrees it is far less than the systematic oppression of black people.
Also, what discussion have I stopped or even attempted to stop? I’ve engaged with questions in almost every post encouraging the conversation. Please at least try to be intellectually honest and engage in good faith conversation.
Thanks for the links to the stats.
Asians have achieved more by race than whites. More.
Pretty funny. Now you say, oh, Asians skin color is closer so, you know … they’re ok. You folks will do/say anything to deflect personal responsibility. Heck, I listened to it for years with the mayor of KC constantly blaming guns for the violence problems in inner city KC. That’s intellectual dishonesty. But it’s everything except the inner city black thug that shoots the little kid on the patio.
Intellectually honest? You and others of your ilk refuse to think outside of the racist box. I, on the other hand, certain consider that as part of the overall analysis. But in 2019, that is not in the top five of reasons “why.”
Intellectually honest? When someone claims racism, and racist rants, that has what is termed a “chilling” effect on debate. No one want wants to be called a racist. It’s considered pretty vile. So when you say that one’s position is racist that’s the effect. Try to figure that out.
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benshawks08 said:
@HighEliteMajor Ok, so it’s also and mostly black men and really if you think about it they aren’t even worth the trouble. Got it.
And how often are those black men stopped by the police? If police stopped white people at the same rate how many white men would be in prison for low level drug charges?
You want some why questions to work on? Why in 2019 is there still not equal pay for equal work? Might employers like yourself bare any personal responsibility for that? Nah probably not. I’ve yet to see you take any of that personal responsibility you seem to love so much for anything.
So, it’s the fault of the police. Because they are arresting criminals. Another in the playbook.
One thing you and again, others of your ilk ignore – the necessary level of policing to keep the inner city areas from being the next version of Escape from New York.
Here, in Johnson County, I barely see a police officer. If I have drugs, my likelihood of getting pulled over is very limited. Why? Because we’re not engaged in ritualistic violence day in, and day out. But somehow that gets translated into unfairness to blacks.
In the inner city, there has to be a heavy police presence – if not, the inner city thugs would wreak even more destruction. More police needed, more police deployed, more possible contact with the police, more actual contact with the police, more criminals caught. It’s comical, the good folks in the inner city want more police and protection. The good, hard working inner city folks are the ones that suffer most. Check the black on black inner city crime stats. Killing and maiming each other at alarming rates. Undeniable. You lose again.
Every time I debate one of “you”, I’m continually shocked by the shallowness of thought on these topics. You say things that I’m sure you and your little leftist buddies chuckle about, and wring your hands, but it’s no different than the folks we see presented in the media today – if you are actually confronted with reality, you have nothing. Ah, nothing but “you’re a racist.”
I’m done. Good evening. You get the last word.
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@HighEliteMajor Unfortunately according to statistics and facts racism still is #1.
When have I or anyone else ever said a person who shoots another person holds no responsibility for that action?
I’d argue more people are turned off by your blatant racism than my calling it out.
You try to bully people out of a discussion with wordiness and aggression. You’re very comfortable judging others and rarely if ever look inward. You routinely generalize about people while talking about the importance of the individual. You generalize about race, political affiliation, socioeconomic status and anything else you can think of the paint entire groups of people as the same so that you don’t have to think at all about your contribution to any problem. It’s always them and they.
For me people aren’t racist but actions, words, systems and policies often are. Enjoy your perfectly safe neighborhood and have a good evening.
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Systemic racism is still alive and well in this country whether people choose to admit it or not. It is still a much bigger problem in this country than either the left of the right wants to admit. The government doesn’t want to change the system that’s been in place for decades because then they lose their power and lose their ability to control inner city culture.
How long has gun violence been an issue in Chicago? How much funding does the Chicago public school system get in proportion to other suburban districts in the Chicago area?
There are lots of issues in inner city culture. I’m sure anyone who has ever taught or worked closely with that community has a lot of personal stories about kids who were smart enough to get the grades and stay out of trouble to be able to attend college, but we’re unable to due to circumstances beyond their control.
At the school I work at, about 1/3 of my students still don’t have internet in their homes or any type of computer including a smartphone or tablet. My school district doesn’t have the funding to provide class sets of technology (laptops or tablets), let alone 1:1 technology like just about every suburban district in the area has. Whenever my district has a training promoting the latest computer based program to “help” those kids play catch up, my first question to those people is always how will that program benefit those students who have teachers that don’t have technology in their classrooms for each student and those students have no technology at home. Their answers are typically along the lines of saying a student can stay after school for tutoring. Seems like a reasonable answer until the variable that most of those students are the ones that can’t stay because they have to go home immediately after school because their parents work multiple jobs and aren’t home to prepare dinner for the younger siblings who can’t take care of themselves. Those Professional Development people typically don’t have a good answer for that one.
Then, when it comes time for standardized testing, these are the districts that typically perform the lowest on those scores. When those districts perform poorly, they lose funding and that money goes to higher performing districts. Here in Houston, HISD (biggest district in Texas and 8th biggest nationally based on enrollment last I checked) has shut down about 15 schools in last couple of years due to a lack of funding.
When the system in place is telling those kids that your school isn’t worth funding and providing you with a safe place to get an education to get out the cycle of poverty, then those kids grow up not trusting that same system, most people act surprised by that.
If the system truly wanted to change and actually make a real difference in inner city culture and make a real difference, states would start giving out more funding to lower performing schools instead of less funding to the point those kid’s schools are closing leaving them fewer and fewer options to escape that situation. Providing a bigger percentage of funding to inner city districts won’t pay off in the short term because change takes time. It’s a long term investment the government doesn’t want to make because the inner city culture is an easy scapegoat for a lot of hot button issues in this country.
Whenever you do hear about a kid making it out of that life and out of the inner city for good, you never hear that they did it on their own. There was always someone to help that kid out whether it was a teacher, counselor, coach, family member, or some kind of mentor to keep that kid accountable to help that kid navigate things no one in their family knows anything about.
Those kids that make are also the same one that are most likely to go right back into that community to pay it forward. As far as a specific KU example goes, Ben McLemore is a perfect example of someone who made it out of the inner city (not on his own) and now gives back because he has the means to. His goal is to be that inspiration for others to make out of inner city St. Louis by providing an easier path for those kids that wouldn’t have existed otherwise.
Warrick Dunn and DeShaun Watson is another great example of what paying it forward can do. For those who don’t know the story, Warrick Dunn’s mom was a police officer in Baton Rogue and was murdered during an armed robbery while she was off duty helping a woman make a bank deposit. After Dunn made some money in the NFL, he began a charity organization that providing homes to single moms and one of those homes went to current Houston Texans QB DeShaun Watson’s family. Does Watson make it to Clemson or the NFL without that assistance? Maybe, maybe not, but the odds increased significantly when his mom received that home and moved out of inner city Atlanta.
Black people in this country could vote in elections beginning in 1870. Southern white people didn’t believe that people that had been their slaves until 5 years prior were worthy of that honor and privilege so that created a barrier to vote in the form of literacy tests and poll taxes. The polling administrators were free to waive these barriers whenever they pleased and our legal system said that’s not an issue. If you Google those literacy tests, one of the first one’s to come up is the literacy test used in the state of Louisiana in the 1950’s and 1960’s. It states that the test taker has 10 minutes to complete 30 questions and must get every question correct in order to vote. It claims to be a test at the 5th grade level so I give it to my 7th graders every year during a unit on the Reconstruction era of US history, specifically when teaching them about Jim Crow laws. I have yet to have a student meet the criteria to vote. I didn’t even pass it the first time I took and had to look up a couple of answers to that test. The academic language in that test is absolutely at a 5th grade level, but that test was worded in a very confusing manner to purposely trip up those who were forced to take that test.
Another example here in Texas has to deal the STAAR test which is the name of the state standardized test in Texas. I forget which grade level it was exactly, but it an early elementary question that asked students to identify what a bed was. Seems simple enough right? It’s not because the answer choices were all pictures and two of the answer choices were a picture of a couch and the floor. For inner city kids, a lot of them choose either the couch or the floor. Does that make those kids dumb that chose those answers? A lot of people would say yes, but no, those kids aren’t dumb. When some of those kids were asked why they chose the “wrong” answer, their responses were very telling and showed they weren’t dumb. A lot of them responded that they knew a bed is where someone sleeps at night and that those kids that chose “wrong” didn’t choose wrong, they chose the couch or the floor because that’s where they sleep at night because the don’t have a bed in manner the question was asking.
In this country the decked is still stacked against black people and black communities. Not as stacked as it was 60 years ago, but it’s still stacked against them in many ways people don’t realize.
I have a co-worker name De’Eric. Before becoming a teacher he worked a 9-5 corporate job as some kind of investor or CPA. He was a very successful at his job pulling in over 100k a year (mostly commission). He said didn’t have much opportunity for advancement because he worked for a small firm that was family owned and ran. He was looking to move up the ladder and his current company was supportive of him in that was the culture of that company to help fresh out of college kids who didn’t want to work for one of the major investment companies. As he starts applying to other positions, he’s not getting very many call backs. One of the jobs he applied to that he never got an interview with was given to someone he knew who was much less qualified for that position. He’s still looking and he sees that position come available again a couple of months later so he applied again. That second time though, he changed his name on his resume from De’Eric to just Eric and got an interview a couple of days later. At that interview he asked why he didn’t get an interview the first time around and the interviewer got extremely defensive about the matter, especially when De’Eric brought up that he was a classmate of the previous person who was fired after about 2 months and knew was unqualified for that position. I don’t remember all the details, but it basically boiled down the people at the company he was applying to didn’t like how black sounding his name was.
After that interview is when De’Eric said he made the decision that he was going to become a teacher at an inner city district so he could help young black kids out a d be a role model for them.
@HighEliteMajor, while you yourself may not be a racist, a lot of your beliefs about how things are and should be like the NCAA not changing to adapt to the current culture and needs is showing support for a system that is still designed to keep the playing field unequal for black people.
Black people were oppressed for over 300 years in this country. Trusting a system that has allowed black people to be exploited, even still today in some areas, does not go away in 50 years. It takes time and effort and the system in place in this country is still oppressing black culture.
Do black people in America have opportunity in this country? Yes. Do they have the same opportunities that white people in this country have? Absolutely not.
Can the NCAA help inner city culture by altering their rules? Absolutely, but they choose not to because there’s still quite a few high ranking members who grew up when segregation was still legal and still have a mindset that black people are inferior even if they’ll never admit to it because they’re smart enough not to admit to it for fear of losing their cushy jobs.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 sorry I left you out of the teachers that help kids! Thanks for making a difference!
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@Texas-Hawk-10 There is a lot to digest from this post but wow that 1/3 number of kids with no easy internet access is shocking to me.
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This video does a good job of showing what systemic racism in this country looks like today and explaining the obstacles that black people in this country still deal with that white people do not have to deal with.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 That’s powerful.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Great post! Just one thing that happened the other day. I had to call a kids dad because the kid was not doing well in class. I heard the dad ask “which school does he go to?” I was shocked. Doesn’t mean the kid can’t get it someday, but he has lost the influence of the father, lost the role model a father provides for work, how to treat people, how to maintain a car. He’ll probably not have any expectation of inheritances. I could go and on but one anecdote like that says a lot.
By the way thanks for the literacy test idea, I might try it next unit.
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Cultural rot and violence is and always will be one groups fault. WEAK MEN! People bring up Chicago violence and single black mothers. The truth is that REAL MEN would step up and clean up their community and father their children. Instead WEAK MEN don’t and then blame systematic racism or some other bull shit excuse from being a real man. College basketball is going to shit because the coaches are becoming weak men. Strong men move on from a recruit who obviously want money. Strong men don’t recruit kids who cant fight their own battles and become a strong man themselves. Strong men don’t need CRAP entertainment to entice recruits. Strong men understand delayed gratification and don’t need to BE PAID right now!
An old phrase is exactly right:
Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men.
We are in the last sentence of that. WAY too many weak men around.
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Google “race in evaluating names in resumes” for lots of interesting results in studies of how many interview requests were received for identical resumes with Africanized names vs Anglocized names.
One related interesting result comes up with that search: a woman who received no job interviews until she used a man’s name on her resumes.
Your posts are always nicely thought out and logical. Same with @benshawks08 and @wissox. Thank you all for being on the front lines.
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Sorry bud but names are a DIRECT REFLECTION on IQ! If I moved to a foreign country and planned to stay there I’d name my child a name that would help guarantee he/she would be seen as a part of the culture. If you want to buck the culture then deal with the consequences of that and STFU! A smart person does what they can to help their child succeed. Naming your child a stupid name is exactly that, STUPID!
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@BigBad When you’re having a baby at age 15 do you think you’re equipped to give a baby a good name? Not all of my kids were born to young mothers, but a lot were. Just a tip, when you type STFU it really detracts from whatever kind of point you were trying to make.
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Doomed to my low IQ life as “Dan, Dan, the Drywall Man” by birth, I’ve often wished my parents had named me something that would reflect my potential IQ, like Terrance, Srinivasa, or Nikola, or Lebron… but no, they didn’t want to buck the culture.
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I’ve got a lot to say about this since public policy & education are my areas of expertise, but I’ll try to stay brief. No promises though!
As we ask why, like @HighEliteMajor says we have to do, the answers to this are very complicated. The state has pretty consistently botched creating equality of opportunity in this country, sometimes intentionally, sometimes with the best of intentions. Just a few examples. Jim Crow obviously was the kind of de jure segregation and oppression nobody should find acceptable in a liberal society. As the SCOTUS ruled in 1954, separate cannot be equal. Even today, by some measures school systems are as segregated as they were right after Brown. We know that integration efforts worked at first, especially in the South. After busing declined and the federal government stepped back in the 80’s (arguably betraying the mission of Brown), segregation increased.
Why is this important? Schools that are predominantly minority are generally worse than schools that are predominantly white. And school quality has a strong, causal relationship with future market and non-market outcomes. See the evaluation of the Perry Preschool program and the reams of studies evaluating charter schools as examples.
Pre-Brown, state and local governments intentionally underfunded school districts that were majority minority. As an example, (and to @Texas-Hawk-10’s point) Texas only spent 83 cents on each black kid for every dollar they spent on whites in 1960. Why? Racism. What happened post-Brown? Magically, funding equalized among schools. Not really magically (it was because legislatures didn’t want white kids to have to go to the old, decaying black schools). The other major piece is that higher quality teachers tend to work in wealthier districts. The district could be better at recruiting, offer a different quality of life, or other factors like rich kids being easier to teach than poor ones. Also to @Texas-Hawk-10’s point, across the country, poor & minority students receive about 2% more funding than their wealthier counterparts, though it’s pretty unlikely that’s enough to bridge the actual gap in terms of costs.
Since schools are residentially assigned here in the U.S., controlling who gets to live where has a strong relationship with school quality. As one of the primary channels through which any given individual’s opportunity in life is determined, this becomes very important. If we look at data on home ownership and lending, we see that blacks have historically faced severe discrimination in ability to receive mortgages and even if they were able to get a loan, many whites wouldn’t sell homes to blacks in good neighborhoods, a set of practices called redlining. Many whites who were dead broke could receive credit where middle- to upper-income blacks couldn’t ever get a similar loan.
This meant many blacks who would move couldn’t and were stuck in a bad neighborhood and possibly a bad school. In addition, blacks weren’t able to access the capital necessary to develop their own neighborhoods. This kind of hopelessness led to many of the societal ills that still exist there. Put simply, the channels to success that exist for whites exist to less of an extent for blacks.
But racism wasn’t the only culprit. I’m a libertarian so I’ll keep dumping on the state In response to this concentrated poverty (that the government in large part created) they tried to fix it with the War on Poverty and related efforts. Some of the programs were effective (SS and Medicare greatly reduced senior poverty, but have severe issues with solvency, thanks Boomers). One major program was AFDC, a means tested cash benefits program for families who had a male in the house who was unable to work for whatever reason. The program was started in the 30’s, but black women weren’t allowed to access it until the 60’s! Crazy. The program was wrought with administrative issues as well. It discouraged marriage since benefits could be cut if a beneficiary married someone with higher income. This drives some of the increase in out of wedlock births among those with low income (who are more likely to be black.) In addition, the phaseout of benefits was very sharp, which discouraged anyone to work since the marginal tax rate (when including lost benefits) became extremely high, more than 100% in some cases.
And we couldn’t talk about failed wars without bringing up the giant cash fire known as the War on Drugs (and the criminal justice system as a whole). Let’s use a specific example. Why does possession of crack cocaine carry much more severe sentences (about 1/3 longer) than powder? Could it have anything to do with the fact that crack is more commonly found in majority black neighborhoods and powder is more common to white neighborhoods? Even though powder cocaine is worth much more in street value? Not difficult dots to connect there. Another question. Why do blacks get pulled over at nearly twice the rate of whites, even controlling for factors like type of car, even though whites are more likely to carry contraband? Another fun fact: marijuana prohibition was largely based on the fear that blacks would “entice” white women to become addicted to weed. That legacy remains. Blacks are 4x as likely to be arrested for weed possession as whites even though they use at essentially the same rate. Blacks are 12x (!) as likely to be falsely convicted of drug crimes as whites. The U.S. Sentencing Commission found that, even controlling for other observables, blacks were given 20% longer sentences than whites for identical charges. Want a really huge part of family breakup and why young, black men have issues as a group? No wonder they don’t trust the institutions.
So what’s the result of all this? Well, glad you asked. Look at the maps here: https://www.opportunityatlas.org. It tells the story that both private and state actions have created a perverse kind of inequality in this country where it’s a lot harder for the average black kid to succeed in this country than the average white kid. When society continually beats a set of people down for, like, no reason it’s perfectly predictable that that set of people will have problems. One surely wouldn’t expect an abused kid to have the same outcomes as one from a perfectly healthy and safe family.
So what do we do about it? I’ve got a couple ideas. In a paper that hopefully will come out soon, I argue for universal school choice for every student in the country. If we believe primary and secondary education is positive right in this country (most states have constitutional provisions stating such) that it makes sense to allow people the freedom to exercise this right however they want, and allow for the marketplace to work to improve school quality, like we see in the charter sector. As these schools have grown and matured (and been allowed to innovate) their outcomes have gotten better. Now, it’s rare to find negative outcomes of charters, even with the strongest experimental designs.
Second, I believe strongly that we should repeal the entirety of the current welfare state and replace it with a universal basic income. The math works out to about even if we give everyone $800/month, deposited into a bank account, as soon as they graduate high school or turn 18, whichever is first. That’s enough to get above the poverty line for a couple and drastically increase bank usage.
Third, decouple employment and health care. Because of a quirk of WWII tax law, employer sponsored health benefits aren’t taxed like income, incentivizing employers to pay for health insurance instead of increasing salary. Replace it with expanded HSA’s or something similar. It would increase job mobility since your health insurance would be portable and not tied to your employment.
These three things have a common purpose: empower the individual to take control of their lives and live up to their potential unimpeded by the state. Other things like opportunity zones could help attract capital to the areas that need it.
Finally, everyone should read this book: https://www.amazon.com/Dignity-Seeking-Respect-Back-America/dp/0525534733/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=chris+arnade&qid=1551149213&s=gateway&sr=8-1. The author did the unthinkable: he went out and talked to people! Crazy thing to do these days. It really drives home the point that people in large swaths of the country feel neglected and hopeless, so they turn to drugs or other vices to escape.
Anyhoo, I’ve said too much. Have a lovely evening, everyone.
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@FarmerJayhawk The devastating effects of redlining should be taught to Americans. I’m ashamed that nothing in my world made me aware of it until about 10 years ago. Chicago or Milwaukee depending on whose methodology you believe are the most segregated cities in the country. They perfected the practice of redlining and much of the inner city woes of both places can be traced back to it.
I really believe your post and a few others above contain perspectives that most Americans have little understanding of. As I admitted, I was really unaware of these things until about 10 years ago. It certainly changes perspectives when you start to have an understanding of what ways so many have been intentionally kept down.
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@FarmerJayhawk I read an something interesting but I can’t remember where that posited if we took all the money the government spends trying to decide who qualifies for certain benefits and making sure no one accidentally gets too much, there’s be enough left over to provide services to nearly everyone.
Never heard a libertarian arguing for universal income. Is that just a you thing or common among others you know? I’ll be asking my libertarian friends.
School choice worries me a bit because of the way some people have used that phrase to support the privatization of schools but I’d love to read your paper about it and learn more about your point of view.
Thanks for sharing and let me know when that paper comes out!
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@FarmerJayhawk Another example in Texas of holding minorities down and a contributing factor in the disparity of conviction rates and sentence lengths is the prison system. I can’t speak on other states, but in Texas, most prisons are privately owned and operated. They are also among the richest and most powerful lobby groups in the state. They don’t make money by rehabbing convicted criminals so they don’t become repeat offenders, they make money by keeping those prisons as full as possible.
This lobby group is why Texas will be among the last states to decriminalize marijuana, let alone legalize it even for medicinal use. Marijuana convictions are big business in Texas, along with other misdemeanor level drug crimes because those fill these private prisons and fund a lot of law enforcement agencies in the state.
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@benshawks08 that would make sense! There’s a lot of stuff out there about monitoring costs of these programs and how they’re basically wastes of money.
I’m not sure how common it is. I think the major disagreement is about the existence of a welfare state at all. I believe we need one. As great as charities are and have been they can’t plug all the leaks in society. So my argument is that a) a welfare state is necessary and b) the current one focuses way too much on in-kind benefits instead of just giving people cash.
I’m agnostic on who actually provides education and I’m definitely not informed enough to tell everyone what system is best. Some people really like their private, religious school. Some love their neighborhood public school. Great! Lets just make the government neutral on it and let people make these choices (within certain guardrails).
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@FarmerJayhawk Another example in Texas of holding minorities down and a contributing factor in the disparity of conviction rates and sentence lengths is the prison system. I can’t speak on other states, but in Texas, most prisons are privately owned and operated. They are also among the richest and most powerful lobby groups in the state. They don’t make money by rehabbing convicted criminals so they don’t become repeat offenders, they make money by keeping those prisons as full as possible.
This lobby group is why Texas will be among the last states to decriminalize marijuana, let alone legalize it even for medicinal use. Marijuana convictions are big business in Texas, along with other misdemeanor level drug crimes because those fill these private prisons and fund a lot of law enforcement agencies in the state.
That makes sense. People making money from incarceration gives me the willies. The incentives are just bad. Have you read Frank Baumgartner’s book about the death penalty? Apparently Houston is the execution capital of the country and the ideal of equal justice under law is basically just a slogan. Also plugging it because he was kind enough to answer any and all questions from a lowly grad student a couple years ago.
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Blaming school districts and cops. Perhaps it’s culture that doesn’t care about education or obeying the law? For every “crap” school I’ll show you plenty of kids who learn and move on. For every rich school I’ll show you kids who did nothing and are failures. It’s iq and culture in the home. Stop trying to put all of society into a monetary or racial algorithm. Society isn’t an equation to be solved.
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@FarmerJayhawk @benshawks08 @wissox @Texas-Hawk-10
Nice discussion. One thing to add is the effect of zoning restrictions as an allegedly race-neutral tool that has been highly instrumental in perpetuating segregation and resulting educational quality differences.
Sidenote: A recent article somewhere discussed the correlation between gun control resistance and race. In the 60s through the early 90s, apparently the NRA and Republicans largely supported certain types of gun control. Those eras’ highly visible “criminal elements” included the Black Panthers and inner city gangs committing drivebys with assault-style weapons (resulting in the ban that expired in 2004).
The article discussed how gun ownership among whites has exploded, and now the gun rights organizations think it is a divine right to get any gun they want. But they didn’t think so when it was blacks who were the targeted owners.
I don’t think it is necessarily a compelling argument, but it is food for thought.
Incidentally, the studies of racial bias based on names mentioned earlier include a number that show applicants with “white-sounding” names get approved at a substantially higher percentage with identical financials.
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Savage Inequalities, a devastating look at how schools differ by zip code and The New Jim Crow, two excellent books on the subject.
Before we moved from Louisiana we lived in a nice suburb of Baton Rouge. Top schools in the state actually and the facilities were very nice. They just installed a video scoreboard that is the largest in the nation for High Schools. Down the road where I taught, in the same parish, our football team and the soccer team I coached had to use other teams fields because the lights caught fire. At a similar school I was at a game where one of the lights exploded, shrapnel narrowly missing a group of students in the stands. Savage Inequalities indeed.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@FarmerJayhawk Another example in Texas of holding minorities down and a contributing factor in the disparity of conviction rates and sentence lengths is the prison system. I can’t speak on other states, but in Texas, most prisons are privately owned and operated. They are also among the richest and most powerful lobby groups in the state. They don’t make money by rehabbing convicted criminals so they don’t become repeat offenders, they make money by keeping those prisons as full as possible.
This lobby group is why Texas will be among the last states to decriminalize marijuana, let alone legalize it even for medicinal use. Marijuana convictions are big business in Texas, along with other misdemeanor level drug crimes because those fill these private prisons and fund a lot of law enforcement agencies in the state.
The American prison system is slave labor. I would say it’s broken, because in reality it is but for the purpose it is actually used for it’s perfect…
