Mitch
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@KirkIsMyHinrich Jalen won’t spend much time at the 3 next year because that’s not the need next season. His minutes will come spelling DeSousa for the most part.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 How do you know? Wilson or Enaruna haven’t even played a game in college yet. Maybe Enaruna ends up being better than Wilson. Maybe Braun or McBride end up being better than both.
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@KirkIsMyHinrich There’s this thing called YouTube where you can watch videos of players. Knowing Self’s history in regards to freshmen and rotation depth also are guiding my thoughts on this.
Of the 4 freshmen, Jalen Wilson is the most college ready today, but not an NBA level prospect. KU’s current roster composition also says that most of Wilson’s minutes will come at the 4 this year as a stretch 4. Foul issues or injury is when Wilson will play the wing because he doesn’t have the handles to be a perimeter player right now, even a wing.
Tristan Enaruna is the best NBA prospect, but like Svi, he needs a lot of refining to get to that point. He’ll be a very good player, it just won’t happen until year 2 or 3 at KU.
Isaac McBride has the Mason and Graham diamond in the rough potential, but he’s not an immediate impact player and likely won’t be a polished player until years 3 and 4 (if he becomes polished). There’s a reason McBride is a 3 star player and with a different roster composition, he would see minimal meaningful minutes this season.
Christian Braun is a local kid that hopefully turns into a Brady Morningstar level of impact, but don’t depend on that though.
KU’s 2019 recruiting class is a developmental class that doesn’t have an obvious superstar player in it. These are all players that currently have major flaws in their game that will keep them at KU for at least 3 seasons.
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I think you are right. I’m looking at Big Mac right now and I have to look at him twice to recognize him. He has changed that much since March. He’s a lot more chiseled. I’ve never seen anyone change their athleticism so quickly. He is going to be a force next year that we won’t realize until he’s in games because we don’t know how well that will transfer but it surely will be a positive. He’s slowed the game down and is using his energy more efficiently, too. His midrange shot is coming along. I’m sure his defense will be much improved as well. David is “dialing in” to the game now and he’s not ready to just concede he’ll be riding the pine.
I mentioned the hopes of RSing Mitch. We do really need to address our big situation because we can’t sit guys like David for most of the season. He’s worked harder than anyone and he deserves PT.
Managing player minutes has become one of the most important aspects of coaching D1 today. We are seeing a record amount of transfers and unhappy campers in the game. All that not only disrupts team personnel but also creates recruiting problems.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 There is this thing called youtube? Is this a serious post? This is a joke. You know who else looked good on youtube? Quentin Grimes. To state conclusively in June that one freshman is going to get minutes over another freshman when the two players are similar in rank and neither has played a game in college is absurd. You have no idea how the minutes are going to play out at this point. Our head coach has no idea at this point.
This is worse than the time when you thought Cam Reddish being 100% healthy vs 80% healthy was going to be the difference in a potential game against Texas Tech.
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drgnslayr said:
I think you are right. I’m looking at Big Mac right now and I have to look at him twice to recognize him. He has changed that much since March. He’s a lot more chiseled. I’ve never seen anyone change their athleticism so quickly. He is going to be a force next year that we won’t realize until he’s in games because we don’t know how well that will transfer but it surely will be a positive. He’s slowed the game down and is using his energy more efficiently, too. His midrange shot is coming along. I’m sure his defense will be much improved as well. David is “dialing in” to the game now and he’s not ready to just concede he’ll be riding the pine.
I mentioned the hopes of RSing Mitch. We do really need to address our big situation because we can’t sit guys like David for most of the season. He’s worked harder than anyone and he deserves PT.
Managing player minutes has become one of the most important aspects of coaching D1 today. We are seeing a record amount of transfers and unhappy campers in the game. All that not only disrupts team personnel but also creates recruiting problems.
I hope they can RS Mitch, but I’m doubtful that it happens.
When that was the plan a year ago, we also thought we’d have De Sousa to backup Dedric and we’d be 4 deep in the post.
Not the case anymore.
As far as Big Dave getting PT, I wouldn’t worry about it. Doke can really only handle about 25 MPG. De Sousa, probably the same.
That gives him and Mitch 30 MPG to split and basically 15 mpg guaranteed.
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Marco said:
Let me say it, redshirt Mitch and Garrett. Oh no, Garrett might transfer! Go ahead… Really, what does he offer? Not squat. Play McBride and Braun.
WHOA - there pander - -are you fricken serious? - -are you blind? - -or what - GOD I can’t believe you just said that.
Not really sure what the hell you been watchin - you sure in the hell haven’t been watching Marcus. - just a little FYI - a whole of a hell lot more to the game of Basketball then just putting the ball in the little hole. - -Man I’m almost speechless - for that kind of a statement to be made - are you fricken Serious? - did you actually think before you made that statement? - gotta say pretty pissed when I hear a statement like that. – You see there is this thing called defense - -you do that or are suppose to do that part also in a Basketball game - most don’t – Marcus however DOES - -hands down KU’s best defensive player That’s why you see Coach putting Marcus on the other teams best offensive player a lot of the time. - -Come on man I know you must of tripped and hit your head on the floor. - -Ther is no fricken way would we ever want Marcus to transfer - I bet you could take a poll and see just how many people would ever want to see him leave
Dam Dude I REALLY - REALLY can’t believe you said he does do squat - - -hmmm, hmmmmm, hmmmm, Seriously - ok I gotta go take a shower - - cool off. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@Texas-Hawk-10 If you don’t mind, how do you define willingly? Also what is your minutes threshold. Last year the 9th and 10th guy were over 300 minutes and both around 10 a game. The depth the previous two years was bad but going back to when Self has real depth the 9th guy does tend to at least get some run.
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@BShark Self went deeper last year because of the Doke, Vick, and Garrett situations. Injuries forced Self to play more people more minutes than normal. Self didn’t willingly play 11 players 10+ mpg last season. Circumstances beyond his control forced that. I’d also be willing to bet that going back and looking at individual game box scores will show Self still mostly played 8 players, just that the 8th player was different on a game to game basis depending on match ups and who was hot on a given night.
For me, rotation level minutes are 10+ per game. Without Doke’s injury, Agbaji never plays, without Vick, KJ doesn’t play the minutes he does at the end of the year to get to rotation level minutes. Garrett’s injury forced Moore to play more as well which bumped his minutes.
Self didn’t play Moore and KJ the minutes he did willingly, he did so out of necessity due to injury and discipline issues.
We’ll see a deeper rotation in November and December because Self is figuring out combinations, but that rotation will be at 7-8 players by the time B12 play starts.
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I would agree last year wasn’t a great example.
But say
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/kansas/2011.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/kansas/2015.html
I think next year could end up like this where there is a fair bit of depth but outside of the top few guys it’s not great.
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@KirkIsMyHinrich You’re using a hypothetical to prove a point?
Here’s what YouTube does, it allows you to see the skill levels of players. How are their handles, footwork, shooting form, physicality, stuff like that. The red flags were there with Grimes from the beginning and I was never on his bandwagon because I’d seen him in person in HS multiple times. There were times he didn’t even look like the best athlete on his team, he didn’t make teammates better, he didn’t blow by opponents.
Self has been here long enough that his tendencies aren’t secrets. When he has experienced players like he will this season, freshmen tend to have very short lashes. Self doesn’t have to go beyond 7 deep this season and KU would be just fine. Those freshmen are going to have to earn every minute they play because none of them are better than a player in front of them except for possibly Wilson over Lightfoot, but even then Lightfoot has a big experience edge over Wilson. McBride is not better than Dotson, Wilson is not better than Agbaji, Garrett, or Moss, Enaruna isn’t better than Mitch today, and Braun is the worst scholarship player on the roster.
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@BShark 2011 appears to be the exception, but even then KU dealt with Selby’s suspension and injury, Releford was hurt, and only 4 players played in every game so even that year seems like Self was forced to expand his rotation at times due to players not being available for whatever reasons.
2015 was a freshmen heavy class that never really gelled and I think a tighter rotation probably would’ve helped that year. This year’s roster has very little in common with that roster group as far a age goes.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 From what I’ve heard Wilson is the type that will battle and fight to get his minutes. Would love to see it.
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I would be stunned if the rotation is beyond 9 guys. Each of the 9 has a pretty defined role for this time of year. Wilson, Garrett, and Moss are really the only ones in flux. And ideally Moss fits like a glove at the 2 so Garrett can be a do it all guy off the bench. And no way Garrett RS’s barring injury. He’s our 2nd best PG and best perimeter defender. No idea why you’d take that guy off the floor on a team that needs ballhandling and perimeter defense.
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FarmerJayhawk said:
I would be stunned if the rotation is beyond 9 guys. Each of the 9 has a pretty defined role for this time of year. Wilson, Garrett, and Moss are really the only ones in flux. And ideally Moss fits like a glove at the 2 so Garrett can be a do it all guy off the bench. And no way Garrett RS’s barring injury. He’s our 2nd best PG and best perimeter defender. No idea why you’d take that guy off the floor on a team that needs ballhandling and perimeter defense.
Garrett taking a RS is the hottest take I’ve seen since the Dave should RS take on the phog. Neither will RS like you said barring a medical one.
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FarmerJayhawk said:
I would be stunned if the rotation is beyond 9 guys. Each of the 9 has a pretty defined role for this time of year. Wilson, Garrett, and Moss are really the only ones in flux. And ideally Moss fits like a glove at the 2 so Garrett can be a do it all guy off the bench. And no way Garrett RS’s barring injury. He’s our 2nd best PG and best perimeter defender. No idea why you’d take that guy off the floor on a team that needs ballhandling and perimeter defense.
I couldn’t agree more then what you say Farmer - - - I mean some fail to realize that there is more - ALOT more to the game of Basketball then just putting the basketball through a little hole. - -you woul have to totally insane to take Garrett off the floor at times - he is our best defender - -hands down and people want t keep him off the floor?
Like one mentioned - everyone of these guys have a very defined role on this team – Marcus role is to defend - he has defended multiple positions numerous times and down it well - he hasn’t been or should be counted on as a scorer with this team this year , this is not a need from him - thee are many options without having to bank on him for offense. - - Some of these people just don’t get it
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I hope McBride is good enough to get minutes this year to season him for next year. It looks pretty bleak without Dotson on the roster.
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@dylans Bill is targeting every pg in the 2020 class
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@BShark Hope he gets a couple.
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@dylans have no doubt he gets two good guards unless the ncaa destroys the program.
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@BShark eeeeew!
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@Crimsonorblue22 we good
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@Texas-Hawk-10 did I say 10+ minutes a game for each of them? Damn, that’s alot of minutes. What I am saying is that Silvio, Enaruna and Wilson are going to cut into Mitch’s PT bigtime making it almost nothing, and Dotson, McBride, Moss and Braun are going to eat away at Garrett’s. So question, if they don’t redshirt how many minutes per game are Lightfoot and Garrett going to get?
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@Texas-Hawk-10 again, I say redshirt Mitch and Garrett.
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@BShark I didn’t say Moss would, said I’d pass on the kid from Puerto Rico (who will - if we sign him - be a Moore).
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@BShark I didn’t say play Braun over Garrett. I say play a combination of Dotson, McBride, Moss, Agbaji, Braun and Wilson over Garrett. Mark it, Garrett will average less than ten minutes per game. Why? Why NOT?
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@KirkIsMyHinrich Thank you… Everyone is like writing Enaruna off as if he is a developmental guy who isn’t going to play this year. The dude can play, and he will. Weren’t he and Wilson rated more or less the same by some gurus?
Silvio is going to get about 20mpg, Enaruna 10 plus, Wilson 22, Agbaji 25 Braun about 7, Dotson about 30, McBride seven or eight, abd Moss around 25. And Garrett - if he doesn’t redshirt - what, about 5 or 6? And where should Garrett’s minutes come? At the point, over McBride? Why? He is a decent defender who cannot push the ball due to being relatively slow, and he cannot score. Maybe the 2? Are you serious? How 'bout the three? Why? At the expense of Agbaji, Wilson and the development of Braun? I’ve changed my mind on redshirting him, though… Want him to graduate in two years and move on, so that we can quickly replace him with someone who can shoot. He’ll be defensively serviceable this year for about 5 to 8 minutes a game, period - splitting time at three positions.
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Marco said:
@BShark I didn’t say Moss would, said I’d pass on the kid from Puerto Rico (who will - if we sign him - be a Moore).
It was someone else on another forum, the 24/7 board. I ended up finding the post. That guy also thinks Jalen will start as well which I disagree with.
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If a Jr and a Sr can’t get minutes over low ranked freshmen, redshirting will not help. Redshirting would mean they have to compete against more experienced Sophomores the next season, unless there is a mass exodus.
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Garrett is going to play over 20 minutes a game so plan accordingly.
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BShark said:
Garrett is going to play over 20 minutes a game so plan accordingly.
Have the bourbon ready when defenders sit an ocean away from him and he’s launching missiles at the rim
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@Marco Marcus Garrett will average over 25 minutes per game this year and none of the freshmen are better than him.
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@dylans Mitch’s PT issue isn’t the freshmen, it’s the Sr. and Jr. already on the roster that are his barrier to minutes. If Mitch redshirts, he should get good minutes in 2020 and probably start at the 4.
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Marco said:
@KirkIsMyHinrich Thank you… Everyone is like writing Enaruna off as if he is a developmental guy who isn’t going to play this year. The dude can play, and he will. Weren’t he and Wilson rated more or less the same by some gurus?
Silvio is going to get about 20mpg, Enaruna 10 plus, Wilson 22, Agbaji 25 Braun about 7, Dotson about 30, McBride seven or eight, abd Moss around 25. And Garrett - if he doesn’t redshirt - what, about 5 or 6? And where should Garrett’s minutes come? At the point, over McBride? Why? He is a decent defender who cannot push the ball due to being relatively slow, and he cannot score. Maybe the 2? Are you serious? How 'bout the three? Why? At the expense of Agbaji, Wilson and the development of Braun? I’ve changed my mind on redshirting him, though… Want him to graduate in two years and move on, so that we can quickly replace him with someone who can shoot. He’ll be defensively serviceable this year for about 5 to 8 minutes a game, period - splitting time at three positions.
There are many takes that exist. This is one of them.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@Marco Marcus Garrett will average over 25 minutes per game this year and none of the freshmen are better than him.
Some just don’t get it
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@Marco Redshirt Garrett? Are you afraid we’re not going to give up enough points?
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@Marco Marcus Garrett will average over 25 minutes per game this year and none of the freshmen are better than him.
Yep.
Let’s think about it, this was a weak class. Wilson is by all accounts skilled and obviously has great size. So then, why is he still ranked in the 50s in a bad class. Imo it’s due to his lack of lateral quickness and he isn’t the best athlete, not enough so to immediately play the guard/wing at this level. I think his time will be spent at the 4, ala Marcus Morris/Perry.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Everyone is automatically assuming Jalen can guard the 3, and i’m not so sure he can.
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@BShark Great minds think alike…I’m not saying JW couldn’t develop into a good defender on the perimeter, but he’s a long way off at this point.
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KUSTEVE said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Everyone is automatically assuming Jalen can guard the 3, and i’m not so sure he can.
This is how I feel. I think he gets 7-10 MPG to come in and be a spark offensively. Very much what BG was during his time here.
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@Kcmatt7 10 or so minutes and all at the 4.
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@KUSTEVE When or where did I say Jalen was a 3? He might get spot minutes there this season because of fouls, but 90%+ of his minutes this year will be at the 4. Jalen Wilson will be the biggest defensive liability on the team next season.
Wilson is the guy I can see the Charlie Moore/KJ Lawson discussion happening with in regards to why is he playing if he isn’t making shots.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 You didn’t say that. I didn’t say that you had. I was agreeing with you. I forget how sensitive you are. I should’ve said practically everyone except you and I believe that JW will have problems guarding the 3.
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KUSTEVE said:
@Marco Redshirt Garrett? Are you afraid we’re not going to give up enough points?
dammit man - -you ridin that horse to death - -giddy up lmao beat that up
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@KUSTEVE I’ll add to your group there. I don’t see Jalen as a 3 yet. I need to see it play out. We have four terrific perimeter players in Dotson, Moss, Agbaji and Garrett. there are 120 minutes per game there. The math is easy. A fifth guy could get some time. My view is that McBride for appx. 10 is most likely if he’s not overwhelmed. But I don’t know.
But if Self is flexible with his offense, and Wilson is a 4, we could be 4/1 like last season when he’s at the 4 and it’s much the same difference. I’m just not convinced the kid will be a significant minutes guy yet.
Did I mention how much I love this roster? And the competition? Maybe my favorite so far – though 2012’s tight rotation, KY sealing the deal, TT playing great, EJ, Releford, Withey, TRob, and a little Teahan as needed (right Purdue), will be hard to beat.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@KUSTEVE When or where did I say Jalen was a 3? He might get spot minutes there this season because of fouls, but 90%+ of his minutes this year will be at the 4. Jalen Wilson will be the biggest defensive liability on the team next season.
Wilson is the guy I can see the Charlie Moore/KJ Lawson discussion happening with in regards to why is he playing if he isn’t making shots.
I think and have been talking with other people - -I think your gonna see Silvio playing more 4 then Wilson - with Doke and McCormack manning the 5 - -and Silvio ONLY at the 5 IF Doke and Dave are both in foul trouble
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@KUSTEVE That was a misunderstanding on my end. Wilson compares pretty closely to Brannen Greene as others have said. Difference being Wilson has an inch or 2 on Greene and isn’t stuck as perimeter guy.
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@KUSTEVE I’m high on this team, man. Think we’ll be bigtime, but (if I have any concerns) it won’t be on the defensive side of the ball.
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@Marco I’m of the opinion that Wilson will play the most minutes of any freshman on the team and that he could spend a lot of time at the 4. And I think it makes sense to have Garrett come of the bench and spend a lot of his time playing with a stretch 4 rather than with De Sousa who is going to do a lot of his damage at the rim. I’m sure Garrett and De Sousa will have some on-court overlap too. However, I also think it’s a mistake to finalize minute distributions for our freshman players in June. I don’t think it’s impossible that Enaruna or McBride get 10+ minutes next season.
I am pretty sure, however, that junior Marcus Garrett is going to get a lot of minutes either as a starter or coming off of the bench. Garrett played 19 minutes as a freshman and 28 minutes as a sophomore. I think that he’ll be somewhere around his sophomore minutes again this season.
