Other Games Tonight
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Goodnight Duke.
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Bye Duke. Officials tried.
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Yes!! And all of those no calls hurt Dook. They would’ve had a chance if they didnt need to foul 3 times.
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@kjayhawks That was the funniest thing, the commentators trying to explain that Duke still had 4 fouls to give before MSU was even in the 1-and-1 bonus. Good job, MSU.
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Third time’s a charm. Duke should have lost the last 2. 'Bout time.
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Big 12, Big 10, SEC, and ACC all with 1 team in the Final 4. I’m actually looking forward to watching it.
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@kjayhawks @KirkIsMyHinrich The irony was quite delicious.
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God, my Duke looking like road KU comment ended up being so on point. More turnovers than assists and anemic three point shooting.
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People want to give KU jazz for choking. This dook team may get 4 guys in the lottery this summer and has arguably the best coach ever.
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GO TO HELL DOOK
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I generally don’t get a lot of personal satisfaction from other teams losing, but Duke and UK failing to make the final four on the same day is amazing. And I’m excited to hear commentary that isn’t exclusively about the Duke BlueZions in the Final 4 and Championship games.
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And there will be a grand total of zero one and done kids in the final 4
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kjayhawks said:
People want to give KU jazz for choking. This dook team may get 4 guys in the lottery this summer and has arguably the best coach ever.
KU didn’t choke even a little bit this year. Just got absolutely whipped by a JR/SR laden team that was also more athletic.
It’s interesting to look at actually.
Austin Wiley #35 recruit JR, Brown basically unranked SR, Jared Harper #87 JR, Chuma Okeke (played until today) #47 SO, Doughty, McLemore and Dunbar all super low ranked guys but experienced too.
Most coaches would do work with a roster where 9 of the 10 rotation players are JR/SR.
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@BShark I was saying in general not necessarily this season. But yes I agree
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@kjayhawks Yeah it’s a dumb narrative. The last “choke” I would say was the Stanford loss. People will point to the WSU loss but those two teams were almost identical according to advanced stats. That was a grotesque narrative based mis-seeding.
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Awwww Crap - - all those all mighty OAD’S - -and none of them in the National final - -Dam lmao - - Couldn’t ask for a better day. - - N Carolina - - - -OUT - - - - -Duke - - - -OUT - - - - -Kentucky - - - -OUT - - - - - Gonzaga - - -OUT - DAM couldn’t ask for a better day other then Us being in the final 4.
let me just say - - - BYE - - -BYE - - -so long - - -Farewell - - -BYE - - BYE - -so long - - -farewell - - Will we see you in SEPT -will we see you - - when the summers through lmao.
No more Mr Williamson - No more Mr Barrett just crushes me. - - -In all seriousness, - - - gonna be a long time before we see an athlete quite like Zion again - -he is just a freak - -having to duck you head so you don’t hit it on the back board with a block. - -shoots the three - - handles the ball - -guards in the open floor - -rebounds - -glad he is gone. - - I think this opens the tourney - -WIDE OPEN - - -I like Tech - -I like Auburn -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BShark Yep KU should’ve been a 3 and WSU a 5. WSU also bad way more experience and we was down Alexander.
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Michigan State shot 6 free throws the whole game!!! You always have to beat the refs and Duke.
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BigBad said:
Michigan State shot 6 free throws the whole game!!! You always have to beat the refs and Duke
Ya what I was tellin my friend in the 2nd half - -saying how the hell does Duke only have 3 fouls this late in the game - - actually hurt them lol. - -smelt ACC all the way and then - - BAM Michigan State holds on - - awwww. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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And of coarse right below the final score on ESPN is “take aways from Duke loss to MSU” lmao cant make this shit up.
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kjayhawks said:
And of coarse right below the final score on ESPN is “take aways from Duke loss to MSU” lmao cant make this shit up.
Hell then you have the broadcasters rubbin Duke’s Ass all through the game - - -Rafferty when Duke had the ball - -Coaching Duke and tellin OK whoa slow it down when Zion had the ball - -don’t settle - -don’t know how many dam times I heard that from him
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It wouldn’t have been a contest had Dook played thru Zion more. The past 3 chances they had, he didnt touch it. When you have a guy the refs refuse to call offensive fouls on and is that big/talented. Just give it to him and take it to the rack. They never played thru him enough IMO all year. Dedric got touches nearly every trip for us this year because that all we had. If Zion was in the same boat he may have been a 30 and 15 a night guy.
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Now, the Bulls need to win that draft lottery so they can pick Zion! I didn’t see too many egregious calls favoring Duke, except for two out of bounds calls. One was around the 10:00 mark and a ball went off Zion and refs gave it to Duke who immediately made a 3 and then another 3. There was another on the sideline with about 3 minutes left where it appeared to go off of Duke, certainly the MSU players reaction was he didn’t touch it. There were a couple of maybe foul calls uncalled, but that actually hurt Duke at the end when they couldn’t make MSU shoot FT’s.
To be fair, we all remember a year ago we received the benefit of a 50-50 charge/block call against Duke in crunch time, so there was at least once in the last 40 years that a call went against Duke!
But wow, what a tremendous weekend of games. 2 OT games, two other last second wins, and a lot of drama Thursday and Friday as well. While the upsets are something to behold, they usually lead to dud games later on. This tournament, few upsets, few dud games.
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@wissox overall the refs weren’t terrible, Dook shot 13 fts to MSUs 6. Zion got away with a couple pushes in the back and a few charges as per usual. But as I said earlier damn tough to play a half with a guy as physical as Zion with only 3 team fouls.
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kjayhawks said:
People want to give KU jazz for choking. This dook team may get 4 guys in the lottery this summer and has arguably the best coach ever.
You’re making me vomit in my mouth a little bit. Best coach ever? Give me a break.
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4 top ten recruits in one class and no final four…choke job deluxe. Nike wants their money back
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@approxinfinity Haha I don’t think he is that’s why I put arguably lol, that’s just what people claim.
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@dylans 4 top 10 recruits the last 2 years, Lost in Maui, lost in the E8 the last 2 years. The only thing they can claim is the ACC title from this season. hahaha
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Interesting stat I just read on Dook, Barrett who tried to be the hero is 0-9 in the last 2 minutes of the 3 games they lost with Zion in the line up. Zion has one shot attempt in those games. All other players have 3 shots combine, there it is @approxinfinity , proof of shit coaching. They have refused to call Zion for offensive fouls all year, give the guy the ball and tell him to go to the hole and they prob win that game or he’s at the line to do so.
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Proof that Barrett is a chucker as well. He never saw a shot he didn’t like. He is fantastic but a ball hog at times
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The disparity between the ever so quick whistles on Doke (to include a technical for what I believe was determined a facial expression violation) and the total opposite with Zion is unshakeable. Agree with you @kjayhawks, just give Zion the ball and the outcome is all but guaranteed.
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Come on, let’s be real. Coach K is truly one in the discussion for greatest coach of all time. We may dislike him, complain, etc., but his record speaks for itself.
If you could rewind back to 1990 and have any coach for the next three decades, who would it be?
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@HighEliteMajor Roy and Bill are the ones in that bracket IMO.
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Funny how K is whining about the forthcoming changes eliminating the OAD. His bread and butter is being taken away from him and he’s worried. He shouldn’t be worried because he’s won before the days of the OAD.
Not sure I’m including K in the discussion for all time greatest coach. Wooden is #1 hands down. Classy, obviously recruiting was easy for him, although some claim he was dirty as dirt itself in his recruiting. But K’s collection of talent over the years should have led to many more titles. And one of the titles is so tainted in 2015 that it should have an asterisk next to it.
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@kjayhawks I’d say K, Roy, and Jim Calhoun as the top 3. I’m a national title guy.
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@wissox I was listening to a radio show this morning and they were talking about how to judge a coach. They were talking about much the tournament was a blunder and the best team doesn’t win it all that often and I agree. I thought it was 2 years running but its actually 3 that coach K has had the best class in basketball and hasn’t even made a FF in that time. I always thought you don’t have to have title to be considered the best of all time as a player but I think you need at least one to be considered the best coach. But how can we judge them accurately? It may not be possible, Wooden is the best in my mind because he turned UCLA into a power house from scratch. I believe they had all of 2 division titles in their history before he showed up and Haven’t been relevant but about 7 years since his departure 40 some odd years ago. How can judge Self vs K or Roy? Roy has more titles but couldn’t win as many games or any at Kansas while Self has. Coach K was average at Army posting a record barely over .500 before Dook and he was prob gonna get fired if they didn’t do anything in 86. They were already considered a basketball school before K got there, they won 3 straight ACC titles and made the title game once in the 3 years leading up him. Obviously Self inherited a program here that had when to back to back final fours. Self has the best win percentage and conference titles of bunch . I agree that the ACC is better most years but Self also has a top 10 SOS year after year and doesn’t get the recruits that either of the other 2. It maybe an impossible question to answer at this point.
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Absolutely no way on Calhoun. His last title was complete lucky trash too. He has more failures to make the tournament than titles. Fwiw he is back in coaching. 16-12 at a D3 school in Connecticut. He’s actually helping to found their program as the school was previously women only.
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I’m pretty torn on Wooden’s legacy. I think he was a good coach. I don’t know that he would have had the same legacy if he was coaching in the modern era with 64 team tournaments.
I also think he also allowed blatant cheating and his legacy was saved by the NCAA when they killed an investigation into the program in 1977 that likely could have erased a lot of, if not all of the championships.
I just can’t put a man as my top coach in history when he has so many questions marks. His first 15 years were nothing more than him being a good but not great coach. But then, seemingly out of nowhere, he became an amazing recruiter and THAT much better than everyone else at coaching for a dozen seasons? A lot of coincidences for me to buy that he did what he did without a distinct advantage. I mean, if he was just the greatest coach of all-time, why did it take him 15 years before he even found real success at UCLA? It all adds up to cheating more than it adds up to dominance, at least in my skeptical mind.
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@BShark National titles aren’t trash – somehow we can’t figure out how get “lucky trash” NCs as you call his 2011 title (you know, when Self cost us that year’s title). Calhoun had as many NCs in 13 seasons as KU has in its entire, storied history, and he left a legacy at UConn that helped win another in 2014. I’m sure we can all get whimsical about making the tourney and losing to Bucknell, Bradley, Northern Iowa, Stanford, and Wichita St., but I think I’d settle for missing all five of those tournaments for one more national title.
@Kcmatt7 Why do you criticize Wooden for cheating when your position all along has been that everyone cheats?
@kjayhawks So you’re suggesting that it’s so much harder to win a NC at KU? We’re a blue blood. Maybe I’m reading you wrong. I’ve pointed this out before, and no one has been able to challenge it. We always have a top 5 roster. Meaning, if you lined up all of the rosters at the beginning of the season, we’ve always been top 5 under Self (maybe a few close calls we can grant a naysayer, but really top flight rosters all the time). Yet, just one title in 16 seasons, three FFs.
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KU almost stumbled into a title in 2012. Would have been pretty lucky, but that year was basically predetermined because AD was so good.
It certainly seems that it is harder to win a title at KU than UNC. Roy being large proof of that. Maybe it’s just bad luck? Roy could have easily had two titles at KU with a few slightly different bounces of the ball.
As far as top 5 rosters go, I think KU used to have them but it’s been awhile. There are usually some key flaws now. When was the last loaded KU team, 2011 maybe?
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@HighEliteMajor Yes, I’m saying its harder to win a title at KU. KU hasn’t had a top 5 starting line up all the years Self has been here close but no way 2006, 2009, 2012, 2018 or (maybe if we had everyone) 2019. Roy is a prime example of it being harder or maybe its dumb luck. KU doesn’t get a fraction of the media coverage or get as near the top recruits that the ACC powers do.
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@BShark I’d say 2013 is probably the last year we were “loaded” hard to consider a team with Landon Lucas starting to be uber talented (love LL but he likely wasn’t a D1 caliber of player). I don’t know that I’ve ever looked at a KU team and said this is hands down the most talented team in the country, maybe 07 or 08. Now we have had the talent and team to win titles but seldom the most talented team overall. It takes more than talent to win titles, coaching, experience, etc. Ask coach K lol, Duke was probably the most talented team in 2015, 2018 and 2019. UK has had the most talented team several times including 2011, 2012.
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@BShark @kjayhawks Our roster to begin this season was perhaps the best roster in college BB. Arguably at least. We were the number one team to start the season. That tells us what others thought.
I would be very interested in the years listed by @kjayhawks to know the five teams with better rosters. 2005-2006 - Chalmers, Rush, Wright, Robinson, Kaun, DJ, Giles. But that was one of the years I thought was close call. 2008-09, Aldrich, Collins, Marcus, Markieff, Tyshawn, Releford, Little (and a little Tyrone Appleton!). Another close call year.
I ask, last season, what roster would you rather have? Nova? Ok. I’ve don’t this at the beginning of the season most years – what roster would you trade for? Certainly not more than four each season.
At the end of the season, things always look different. But lining up to begin the year, assessing what each team has – we always loaded.
This season, on paper, perhaps as much as we ever were. Remember, we had presumed OAD that fizzled. We had Doke. Dedric. Vick. DeSousa. A top PG. A McD AA in McCormack. Now, what Self does with that is his business. He brought back Vick who “Vicked” us. Doke got hurt. DeSousa stayed in the barn. Even if we exclude DeSousa, easy top 5. Easy.
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@jayballer73 You were so right!
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@HighEliteMajor remember having a better or more talented roster doesn’t necessarily win games. Dook had a more talented roster than we did last year we just played better when it mattered and coach Self out coached K IMO. In regards in being preseason #1, I think that has happened at KU 3 times in history since the poll started. I believe that 06 team was unranked in the preseason and after getting spanked in Maui, a lot folks thought we were headed to the NIT. The 09 team was preseason ranked #24, 2012 was #13 so if you want to look at the preseason rankings as a tell tell, it doesn’t support your cause much. We could argue about it all day because it is an opinion but I stand by my comment of not having the most talent most years.
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@kjayhawks I agree on your two main points. One, that a better or more talented roster guarantees nothing. And two, that we don’t have “the most talent most years.”
I think we had the best roster in the country in only three seasons under Self, 2008, 2011, and 2016.
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@HighEliteMajor I would agree this year’s roster was top 5 going into the season. By the time you remove two of the top three interior players and one of the best three guards (when he was engaged) well we see what happened.
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@HighEliteMajor I agree, that 2016 team really should’ve beat Nova and won the whole thing but Nova should’ve been a 1 seed not the 4th #2, they was ranked #1 late in the year. Still pisses me off that it wasn’t a NC or FF game.
