Villanova Wildcats - Saturday - 11 am - ESPN
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@Crimsonorblue22 I think you have to start Garrett on him, in the FF it didn’t matter who we had on him, he made it look easy. He’s hands down our best on ball defender, Dotson is pretty solid as well but probably can’t guard a 6’8 guy. Vick maybe another guy that has at times played great defense and has the ability so Self put him on as well.
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@BShark It’s a good thing it takes more than a good five years to be a Blue Blood. Nova and Marsha fans may disagree lol.
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If KU beats Villanova on Saturday, there’s a good chance Nova falls out of the Top 25. KState is almost out of the Top 25 (tied for 25th with Indiana and Syracuse). Arizona is unranked. Another loss would probably make Kentucky unranked.
When was the last time that there were no Wildcats ranked in the Top 25? It could happen this season.
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Booth, Gillespie, Bey and Cremo are all better 3 point shooters than Paschall. Paschall does take more 3 point attempts than all of them except Booth but the 4 I mentioned have better percentages and take a fair number of 3s. If KU concentrates on Paschall it will get killed by the others; Penn did a great job defending Paschall and limited him to 10 points and 5 rebounds; that is the game plan KU needs to consider.
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@kjayhawks Nova has been in the game for decades. I would rank them ahead of Indiana in blue blood wanna be status. Still, they remain as wanna bes in the grand hierarchy of things. Was florida a blue blood because they won back to back?
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@KUSTEVE They have been a solid program for the most part, I’d say fairly even with IU at this point which isn’t a Blue Blood to me. IU has a better overall history but has only been relevant about 5 seasons since the mid 90s even before Knights departure. Villanova was always a decent program but went from 1940 to 2008 with only 1 FF (85 NC) and 5 conference championships. That isn’t good enough to be a Blue Blood IMO.
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Seems to me that blue bloods means historical – KU, UNC, UK, Indiana are the bluest of the blue bloods. Add in UCLA and Duke because their history over the last appx. 60 years. Then we get to the next tier that aren’t blue bloods. I don’t think Nova is a “blue blood” at all. They are next tier, like Michigan St., Louisville, Syracuse, UConn, etc.
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There are only 3 blue bloods in my books. KU… then UK …then UNC. Ku provided Tucky with Rupp, and Dean “Traitor” Smith to UNC so we would have some competition when we played.
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KUSTEVE said:
@kjayhawks Nova has been in the game for decades. I would rank them ahead of Indiana in blue blood wanna be status. Still, they remain as wanna bes in the grand hierarchy of things. Was florida a blue blood because they won back to back?
umm NO. - -I for one would not consider then a blue blood by any means. - -Other then those back to back Championships - -they have accomplished - ummm what?
- -If anything they was a flash in the pan. - Since those championships what have they done?
A blue blood or what I consider a blue blood is the likes of KU - - Kentucky - - N Carolina - - - Duke -plus others that are there - -year after year - -after year. -Schools that are consistently in the upper rankings of the top 25 - -a School that provides something on the terms of being invited to the NCAA tourney like KU has for a number of straight years to the tourney - -a team yes like Kentucky that leads ALL schools in all time wins - -a team like N Carolina that has many NCAA Championships – Those are true blood. -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Indiana isn’t a Blue Blood IMO anymore. they haven’t won a NC in over 30 years and only have 2 FF in that span. They also have only 3 conference titles since 1993, I haven’t considered them a Blue Blood in a decade. People wanted to say we weren’t blue blood because we went so long between titles, Indiana has one NC since the tournament expanded to 64+ teams.
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Recent history, the last decade, is all that compromises Indiana’s credentials – or maybe from its last FF in 2002. They have five national championships, and incredible history dating back to the 1800s I believe. Their elite status is compromised of course because of recent play. But the blood is blue in my opinion because of history.
KU a bluer blue blood than UK or UNC? Kinda maybe not. Our lack of NCs drag us back a bit. Hard to claim we’re a more bluer blue blood than UK or UNC. I’ll take “on par.” But the NCs for UNC and UK make our argument of parity a difficult one (vs. those two with near equal resumes otherwise).
Of course, the definition of blue blood is up to the individual. But to claim Indiana is not a blue blood, I believe, is to ignore the very history of the game that so ingratiates our alma mater. We have to win a few more NCs.
But many believe their status is compromised … one example below.
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@HighEliteMajor Indiana didn’t play basketball til 1901 and were pretty much irrelevant til the late 1920s from 1926 to 1993 they were at a blue blood status with a few misses in that time similar to our history in that span (average at best for a decade in the early 40s after the 1940 NC). Outside of the FF in 02 and 3 conference titles they have done nothing since 1993.
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Blue blood status means a combination of long-term success with near universal recognition for coaching contributions to the game and for producing numerous elite players.
Short term success linked to a single coach (Gonzaga, for example) isn’t enough. Sporadic breakthroughs (Villanova) aren’t enough (they would have a better case if their Howard Porter F4 had not been vacated; same with Michigan and the Fab 5).
I think UCLA’s success is so uniquely overwhelming it gets in despite its checkered history.
I think of Indiana as a Blue Blood sort of like faded aristocracy in a Faulkner novel. Respect must be paid, but the power and energy connoted by the term is more in the memory than in the reality.
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mayjay said:
I think of Indiana as a Blue Blood sort of like faded aristocracy in a Faulkner novel. Respect must be paid, but the power and energy connoted by the term is more in the memory than in the reality.
Love this.
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Why is KU universally considered a “blue blood”? It isn’t NCAA titles - six schools have more titles than KU, some of which, as noted by others, don’t really warrant the approbation. Rather it is the depth, breadth and richness of KU’s basketball history…
It is the inventor of the game; it is Phog Allen; it is Allen Field House; it is the connections to Dean Smith, Adolph Rupp, Roy Smith and others; it is Wilt Chamberlain, Clyde Lovellette, Danny Manning and many others; it is the sustained success over many decades; it is the second most wins of all time; it is the most conference titles of any school; indeed, a top 5 ranking (most top 3) in almost all all-time team categories; and, it is Rock Chalk Jayhawk…
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@DCHawker nailed it!
Is it too much to think that KU is college basketball? That were our program to transgress into moral turpitude, or that our rules be stolen by money-wagging devils blue, or our team to slip into mediocrity and fail to qualify for the tourney, whilst diaper dandies dance for other coaches and announcers laud their praise… That something would be lost for ALL of college basketball, whether they see it now or not?
We are the torch bearers! We keep the sport in balance by being a fair and balanced giant, leading by example. Always have been, and should always be.
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@HighEliteMajor Our status was compromised with Ted Owens. IU can redeem their status with a good run, but at this point, it will take years.
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@mayjay There’s no stinkin’ rules in Blue Blood arguments. It’s every man for himself. I personally make it up as I go along. My IU friend gets reminded on a weekly basis that the Candy Stripers don’t quite make the Blue Blood cut. Close…just a little outside…lol.
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@KUSTEVE Owens was a mediocre coach (as was Harp). Owens had a few all time great KU players, but he also had four losing seasons. Interestingly, two of them (including an 8-18!) were book-ended by his two Final Four teams (advanced to the Elite Eight one other time, but that’s about it in terms of NCAA tourney success in 19 years).
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@DCHawker KU fans that weren’t around back then just don’t realize how pitiful our program was back then. I still think that loss to Wichita St in the NCAAs had a major impact on the program, and eventually cost Ted his job.
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It all started at KU. The number of programs simply touched by KU is unbelievable.
Tad Boyle. Mark Turgeon. Jerod Haas. Joe Dooley. Danny Manning. Rex Walters. Kevin Stallings. Jerry Green. CB McGrath. Tim Jankovich. John Calipari. Gale Catlett. Larry Brown. Adolph Rupp. Dean Smith. Dutch Lonborg. Ralph Miller. Barry Hinson. David Padgett. Doc Sadler. Ben Miller. Kyle Keller. Norm Roberts. Matt Doherty. Neil Dougherty. Jerry Green. Steve Robinson.
And that doesn’t even include the NBA. Alvin Gentry. Greg Popovich. Jacque Vaughn. R.C. Buford. Mark Randall. Milt Newton. Kevin Pritchard. Bob Hill.
If you were to do one branch further off of anyone who was simply touched by KU basketball, we are talking about 1/3 of college basketball and 1/2 of the NBA having been connected to KU in some form or fashion.
So, in my opinion, KU’s Blue Blood status really has little to do with it’s success. At least compared to that of the others. It has to do with the fact that damn near every single piece of basketball history has a trail that somehow leads all the way back to 1651 Naismith Dr.
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@wrwlumpy just listening to the broadcaster - -gives you chills. - -LOOK AT MILLS - - LOOK AT MILLS - proud to be an American. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Villanova fans VERY confident they can beat us. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Villanova is Nouveau riche. Also Connecticut.
Indiana is Nouveau pauvre, the bankrupt aristocracy, as @mayjay said.
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As they should be, the last two meetings have gone their way.
I think we find a way to win though.
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@tundrahok Fitting. Literally, Villanova means “New Settlement”
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Based on its recent success perhaps “nouveau riche” is more appropriate?
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@JayHawkFanToo Sorry, who? I’m unclear about the antecedent of your pronoun.
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BeddieKU23 said:
As they should be, the last two meetings have gone their way.
I think we find a way to win though.
Just feel the way their year has been playing out , plus these Villanova kids are about to experience that they have NEVER experienced in their life - -I promise you they have NOT encountered ANYTHING like what they will be walking into and experiencing ANYWHERE at ANYTIME - -the Phog is going to be just insane
With the way the fans are feeling about Villanova right now - -and the way the atmosphere is going to be - -I think we will be challenging where we set the record for noise at 121 decibal level. - -I have been in the phog where it was pointless to try and talk to a buddy that was sitting right next to you - -no way could you hear ANYTHING - -the old building truly felt like it was shaking in the stands. - -I truly believe these guys have not played ANYWHERE like our house. Saturday will TRULY be a Beware of the Phog type of day - - -WELCOME – WELCOME TO THE PHOG. – ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Villanova…
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@HighEliteMajor What you said was in my head. Word for word. (referring to your list of Blue Bloods, Kinda Blue Bloods and next tier - I’ll call them pale blue bloods)
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Villanova…
I called them nouveau riche, and Connecticut. Indiana is the nouveau pauvre.
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Oops, my bad, I misread your post.
