UH-OH - Sounds like trouble in Aggieville
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Snyder’s stubbornness made him a very good coach, but it also kept him from ever becoming a great one.
Snyder was insistent on doing things his way. As a result, he never tried to upgrade KSU’s overall talent base to include more four star prospects. That meant that even as the rest of the conference upgraded their coaching staffs, he never upgraded his talent to match theirs. Look around the Big 12 now. Where does KSU have a distinct coaching advantage? I’d argue that they don’t have a significant advantage over anyone other than KU. And with KSU’s talent deficit, that makes winning in conference pretty tough.
Add to that the fact that college football has changed over the last 30 years.
When Snyder started at KSU, you could schedule four non conference games and play your other seven conference games. If you scheduled four easy wins, you could go 2-5 or 3-4 in conference and still advance to a bowl. Then it was 12 games, but the same four non conference, with eight conference games. You could go 6-6 and make a bowl. Snyder took full advantage of this. Excluding his first year when the team went 1-10, Snyder’s teams lost seven regular season non-conference games between 1990 and 2005. That’s 16 years. Snyder basically scheduled himself four guaranteed wins just about every season.
Snyder still doesn’t lose many non conference regular season games now (seven more over the last 10 years), but he only gets three non conference games now instead of four. On top of that, he’s no longer coaching in college football’s desert, having weak programs at KU, MU and Iowa State to regularly pick up wins against. When Snyder started, he had seven wins on his schedule before he played a single game (maybe eight when Oklahoma State was down). Now, he has three or four. He has to scuffle to get bowl eligible. And in three of the last four years (including this one) KSU has had to scramble down the stretch to get enough wins to get bowl eligible.
Snyder can’t schedule his way to a bowl (Big 12 put pressure on K-State to schedule stronger non conference opponents or be shut out of the early season TV schedule), so he has to have a P5 team on the slate. He can’t pick on anyone in conference (other than KU right now). There’s no clear path back to success for KSU because Snyder’s blueprint depended on scheduling weaker opponents in non-conference and honing his execution against teams that couldn’t blow him off the field with talent. Without that, Snyder is stuck.
This was always how it was going to end for KSU. Snyder elevated their win total without ever elevating the program. It was a mirage of success built mostly on the struggles of other programs around him. It’s time to pay the piper.
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@dylans I agree, he is the only one that has had any sustained success there. However I’m not a guy that believes he’s near as good as their fan base thinks. He has a losing postseason record, .33 win percentage against ranked foes, .12 win percentage vs top 10 ranked foes, has only beaten a ranked team twice when he himself was not ranked and has a losing road record. Snyder is good at getting under talent teams to play mistake free and at a higher level than they should. He is best at beating weak teams at home and they are known to schedule 7-8 home games each season. He hasn’t been great since his return outside of 2012 with a class that Prince recruited by the way. The old days when he drew the easy south schedules were his best days.
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@justanotherfan Snyder did make an effort in the late 90’s and early 2000’s to go after a lot more 4 and 5 star players. Those players largely had no interest in coming to KSU and led to their slide after 2003 and Snyder’s first retirement.
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@justanotherfan True. Now that stubbornness that you talk about is one of the problems that they are having now. - -Him and his stubbornness in not wanting to step don now – him being stubborn about wanting his son take his place as the next Coach. - As you say has hasn’t been able to keep up. –
Iowa state is not a team that he can take for granted any more- -I’m really impressed with the Coach Iowa State now has - -that’s no longer an automatic win like they used to be for Synder . They was mentioning yesterday on the cast - saying that they truly believe they miss out on that possible National Championship a few years back when they had that pretty - -really good team how long ago was that? - -3-4 years ago? they said.
You have to respect the Guy for what he did with that K-State program - -and I do , but he has to turn loose and realize it’s time to retire and enjoy the rest of his life - - let someone else take the reins - don’t water down what he has - -I hate K-State - -but yet I have to give Coach props - And I do - - but time to call it quit’s - -don’t ruin what you have accomplished Coach - - -ROCKCHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Kcmatt7 said:
It absolutely is time for Snyder to retire. He has health issues and he has quit trusting his coaching staff. I get that he wants his son to be the coach after him, but it isn’t his decision. Nor should it be. It isn’t a family business.
Well…the stadium is named after his family, the owns the rights to the Powercat logo, his kid is an assistant coach, has had a say on gets hired and fired and he has as much power within the AD as Coach Self has at KU. After all these years he probably believes it is a family business but in the process he is losing all the good will accumulated and risking tarnishing his reputation. He needs to move on and let his kid stand on his own.
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I agree largely that the game has passed Snyder by, especially in getting talent. As of last year (and pretty sure it hasn’t changed) he never went on the road to recruit and his staff didn’t go on the road during the season. Can’t compete for Big 12 talent like that.
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More trouble in the little apple, more and more people are calling for Snyder’s removal as head coach. Rumors of Seth Littrell are floating around KSU boards like crazy. I guess several fans and players are upset that Snyder basically blamed the loss on a blotched FG attempt, the holder fumbled the snap on a chip shot and panicked. Instead trying to put it down or run, he threw up in the air and TCU picks it off giving the ball at 20 instead of inside the 10. Then the same player on a missed extra point had the laces pointed in and cause the misfire to tie the game late. I agree that those plays made a difference (didn’t watch) but in a one point loss you could probably point at 20 or plays that weren’t made, kinda like our Nichols loss. So many opportunities that we just missed, anyhow it’s fun seeing Snyder get some heat.
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They also pulled a Beaty and punted from the TCU 34 yard line for a touchback lol
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Snyder is out. Matter of when. Could be tomorrow.
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@FarmerJayhawk fired or stepping down?
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@Woodrow really the former but officially the latter.
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Not surprised at all if this it for Snyder. I said way earlier in the year when they began to struggle that this was looking like he was done. I think the extension was done for recruiting. Most people / fans thought this was a 9-10 win team. They have grossly underachieved and honestly looked poorly coached in some games.
Will be very interesting to see who they get next. If Long can make a great hire KU has a chance to significantly close the gap on these two programs.
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Talked to a guy who was on the sideline 20ft from Snyder an entire game. He said Bill didn’t say a word the entire game to any player or coach in person. It was weird. He just stood there with an assistant following 5ft behind him carrying stuff for him.
The old guys lost touch it seems.
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The extension was likely a prearranged parting gift. He made $3.45M this season and it goes up by $300K the next two seasons and has 2 more seasons after that, so he will leave with a $15M buyout. The KSU Athletic Department will take a heavy hit.
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@JayHawkFanToo I think it may just be $3M to buy him out. At least from what I’m reading.
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His contract was renewed this last August and was for 5 years. Most contract indicate that if fired for cause there is no payout but otherwise the reminder of the contract is owed. Now, if he wants to go somewhere he can buy out the reminder of his contract for a year’s pay, typically. If he is “retiring” voluntarily then the payout might be considerably smaller. It will be interesting to see how his departure is officially alleged since it might have heavy monetary implications. If the buyout is only $3M then I just can’t imagine KSU not doing it
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@JayHawkFanToo I skimmed through the contract and that’s how I read it at least. It was a “Termination Clause” and they could terminate the contract without cause for a $3M buyout paid quarterly over the next few years.
If that I am interpreting it correctly, I think the writing is on the walls.
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I agree. If $3M is all it will cost them then it is very doable.
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@BShark I wouldn’t normally say this is a big deal, Graham had the same thing happen his junior here but man 3 guys this season? That’s crazy maybe Snyder should try a different method of punishment.
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kjayhawks said:
@BShark I wouldn’t normally say this is a big deal, Graham had the same thing happen his junior here but man 3 guys this season? That’s crazy maybe Snyder should try a different method of punishment.
The offenses aren’t particularly serious (all parking/traffic related), but the fact that several players all failed to appear or take care of these tickets reveals an underlying problem within the program - lack of oversight.
It’s a little thing, but could point to some bigger issues under the surface.
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I agree. Interesting that the police is arresting football players for parking tickets, they must not be very busy and feel the need to stop this crime wave created by football players. Their stipend must be very low that they cannot afford a parking ticket.
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@kjayhawks @justanotherfan The unregistered vehicle would be interesting. I was told KSU did it “the right way”
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BShark said:
@kjayhawks @justanotherfan The unregistered vehicle would be interesting. I was told KSU did it “the right way”
“Unregistered” could simply mean that the tags were out of date. It doesn’t necessarily mean that the vehicle was given improperly. Of course, everything about Billy Preston came from a one car accident.
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@JayHawkFanToo Not too far off base. I had a KSU football player pull a gun on me in Manhattan (in 1999) because I pulled up behind him at a stop sign. I guess he wanted me to blow thru it past and around him? Craziness.
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I’m hearing that Head Coach Bill Snyder will announce his retirement within the next 48 hours. I think that’s huge if it happens, Les maybe able to flip some guys over to Hawks.
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kjayhawks said:
I’m hearing that Head Coach Bill Snyder will announce his retirement within the next 48 hours. I think that’s huge if it happens, Les maybe able to flip some guys over to Hawks.
Jim Leavitt is the guy KSU administration has wanted for awhile and Leavitt has a specific clause in his contract that he doesn’t have pay his early exit buyout if he takes the KSU job.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Right, so the question becomes did Synder retire on his own terms? Or is he agreeing to retire because they have agreed to let Sean Synder coach? Will Synder have a role in the athletic department again and run off the next coach as he did Prince (I don’t believe Prince was great but he won more games in each of his 3 seasons than Synder did in the previous 2 seasons and recruited several starters on the 2012 B12 title team)? Either way I think it could be huge for Les trying to flip guys, Leavitt is a good coach but doesn’t have the resume or flash of Miles.
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It kinda strange how close KSUs and KUs seasons are both teams had a defense good enough to win outside of a few games. KU isn’t far from having 7 wins and KSU isn’t far from having 9 wins. I’m sure blowing a 17 point lead in the final 12 minutes in Ames will leave a bad taste in the mouths of fans and booster of KSU. All while was Snyder failed to see how obvious it was that Thompson was a better option at QB, that itself probably cost them a few games.
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Bill Snyder is being forced out and it will be likely be Jim Leavitt being announced in the next week or two.
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TV stations in KC were saying last evening that it was likely Snyder’s last game as HC at KSU…
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
Bill Snyder is being forced out and it will be likely be Jim Leavitt being announced in the next week or two.
I’ve heard Hocutt at Tech May try to land Leavitt himself.
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FarmerJayhawk said:
Texas Hawk 10 said:
Bill Snyder is being forced out and it will be likely be Jim Leavitt being announced in the next week or two.
I’ve heard Hocutt at Tech May try to land Leavitt himself.
I think Vrenables is the guy to watch a Tech.
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Woodrow said:
FarmerJayhawk said:
Texas Hawk 10 said:
Bill Snyder is being forced out and it will be likely be Jim Leavitt being announced in the next week or two.
I’ve heard Hocutt at Tech May try to land Leavitt himself.
I think Vrenables is the guy to watch a Tech.
Seth Littrell is Tech’s if they want him. That’s the P5 job Littrell wants.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
Woodrow said:
FarmerJayhawk said:
Texas Hawk 10 said:
Bill Snyder is being forced out and it will be likely be Jim Leavitt being announced in the next week or two.
I’ve heard Hocutt at Tech May try to land Leavitt himself.
I think Vrenables is the guy to watch a Tech.
Seth Littrell is Tech’s if they want him. That’s the P5 job Littrell wants.
That would be the smart move. Not sure if Hocutt will go that route. Is he different enough than Kliff?
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https://twitter.com/aj_donwilliams/status/1066752856215179264?s=21
This guy has some interesting stuff on his timeline about Tech candidates
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So Kliff is out at TT and sounds like Synder is out at KSU. I’ve read some interesting things on both blogs today. Both schools seem to think Ventables is headed their way. TT athletics Director is a former roommate of Ventables at KSU. I’ve also heard that Ventables would never return to KSU because he hooked up with a high profile boosters daughter while he was there and it didn’t end well. I’d be shocked if KSU spends the money on his buy out and the contract it would take to sign him (second highest paid assistant in CFB). I’d say Litrell to TT and Leavitt to KSU seems possible if Riley doesn’t go to the NFL. But we how much of a hard ass Synder is, it wouldnt shock me if Sean is announced as HC either.
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I’m not sure that Littrell would want the Tech job. I honestly believe he could do better. When the cowboys were struggling rumors were flying about Riley heading to Dallas and Littrell heading to Norman. I’d still fire Garrett if I was Dallas, it’s taken the NFC easy falling apart and injuries to make them relevant again. The cowboys also have a very easy schedule compared to most.
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The only reason Seth Littrell wouldn’t take the Texas Tech job, where he spent 4 years under Leach, is because he would prefer the North Carolina job, where he spent 2 years as the associate head coach. Littrell is going to have his pick of Lubbock or Chapel Hill. I just don’t see Venables taking the Tech job even though that’s who their admins want. The one thing in Tech’s favor though for Venables is their AD’s relationship with Venables going back to their KSU days.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
The only reason Seth Littrell wouldn’t take the Texas Tech job, where he spent 4 years under Leach, is because he would prefer the North Carolina job, where he spent 2 years as the associate head coach. Littrell is going to have his pick of Lubbock or Chapel Hill. I just don’t see Venables taking the Tech job even though that’s who their admins want. The one thing in Tech’s favor though for Venables is their AD’s relationship with Venables going back to their KSU days.
Couldn’t agree more. Though it looks more and more likely that Mack Brown of all people is going to UNC. I don’t quite get it but I guess if that’s what Bubba wants, fine. Rumor is he has to have someone with P5 HC experience, and there aren’t that many guys out there fitting that description. Leavitt may be more likely at TTU. Going to be awkward for Hocutt bidding against his alma mater.
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@FarmerJayhawk It would be funny if Brown ended up at UNC, Ventables at TT and Leavitt at Louisville. Just because that would leave KSU scrabbling lol
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Mack Brown coached at UNC before Texas so I’m guessing UNC would be hoping to get a repeat of his first tenure there which was very successful.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
Mack Brown coached at UNC before Texas so I’m guessing UNC would be hoping to get a repeat of his first tenure there which was very successful.
That’s certainly the idea. Also some donors who ponied up for Fedora’s buyout really want Mack to return, with the intention of hiring an all-star staff with a HCIW.
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There are likely to be at least eight P5 openings this season, with some potential name jobs (Southern Cal?) open. Maryland will be open. There could be a couple of ACC jobs (Louisville, UNC) open. If KSU wants to act, they better act fast because things will heat up quickly this week.
The other thing to be aware of for KSU is that since Snyder effectively forced Prince out the last time around, and wields so much influence in that athletic department, some of the coaching candidates may not want to take that job if Snyder (or his son) is going to be around the program. Add to that the fact that the Texas Tech job is the better job in the Big 12 (particularly since KU just hired Les Miles), and K-State may be heading for some tough sledding.
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@justanotherfan USC isn’t going to be available this year and Louisville and UNC are both open although UNC is likely hiring Mack Brown again tomorrow.
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Seems to be some conflicting report out of kittyville. - - Several people saying that it’s done that some guy named Kileman from NDSU will be the next Coach - -well Tim Fitzgerald from Power Cat is saying that with the people who he is talking it’s Littrell -he was then asked if KSU will have a Coach by next week. – He said ya he feels really confident they will have Seth by then - -we shall see. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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This is pretty petty any way you look at it. No wonder why so many players left; the Snyders really did think they owned the program
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JayHawkFanToo said:
This is pretty petty any way you look at it. No wonder why so many players left; the Snyders really did think they owned the program
I’ve heard rumors of similar things from inside that program for years. If Snyder does not (or did not) like you while you were within the program, labelled you a troublemaker or whatever, he would withhold your ring or delay your transfer request - petty stuff.
As the article indicates, its the type of stuff that is tough for the player to make noise about in the moment - it looks bad to transfer while tangled up in a dispute with your former school/coach.
Snyder and his family think they own Manhattan (to some extent, they do). I think Snyder’s large shadow is going to affect their coaching search more than they realize.
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I agree. Any coach considering the position should have it as part of the contract that there will be no interference or influence from Snyder. I understand that it is difficult to cut all ties with a coach that did so much for the program but keeping him as an “ambassador” and maintaining ties with the program could end up being a bad decision moving forward.
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@JayHawkFanToo I’ve questioned it myself on several occasions. Starting in 02 when they were beating KU by 60 and put back in there starters on Defense as soon as KU crossed mid field late in the fourth (they had already lost 3 games and weren’t trying to get BCS votes ether). I’ve never hoped for a player on any team to get hurt but I would’ve laughed if one of their starters got hurt then. Seemed pretty classless to me and I believe it was last year one transferring player went public about he was like a slave owner and was blocking him from transferring. I have a friend of a friends son that grew up a KSU fan and transferred up from Juco a couple of years back. He said Snyder played favorites like crazy, was a complete a**hole and transfered to Tabor for his senior year. He and his family are no longer KSU fans lol. The way he was holding the university hostage I questioned if he would actually retire. One thing to consider when hiring a new coach is that Synder is still in the athletic department and will probably interfere with the next guy if he doesn’t see the things that are going on as good (Ron Prince who went 7-6, 5–7, 5-7 and recruited several starters including Klein on the 2012 B12 title team after Snyder went 4-8 and 5-7 in final 2 seasons).
