FBI...here we go
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dylans said:
Lots of proposed payment info. I must’ve missed the confirmed payment info. I wonder who all will end up ensnared in this mess.
Everybody yet nobody.
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@JAYHAWKFAN214 me too. - - he has turned down NBA opportunities before.- -If he were to EVE leave for the NBA like I’ve mentioned before -this is the team we should be worried about and that’s the San Antonio Spurs - -with the people he knows , when Pops retires. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I would offer that Self has not had this sort of NCAA scrutiny before. Many coaches bolt under such an environment. My prior view of Self’s character would have told me that he would not abandon ship during rough waters. Now, I’m just not so sure. That said, Medcalf is about worthless and his opinion is of course just chatter. But the topic he raised is one that confronts many coaches with the NCAA breathing down one’s neck – why deal with it when there are other opportunities.
But look, Self said KU never provided any inducements and said he didn’t know of any third party inducements, so we have nothing to worry about, right? I mean, Self said clearly it’s all fiction.
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I believe Self likes the USA basketball gig, I doubt he wants to give it up after just getting it. Self was just made a member of the NCAA ethics committee, it’s not just KU fans who thought he was above reproach. The trial calls everything into question, but I haven’t seen any reason to crucify the man yet. Nothing but circumstantial evidence and that evidence points to other programs as being dirty and making it impossible for KU to recruit (Zion for example) as much or more than to KU. Or are all the programs in the dark and the Shoecos are messing around behind everyone’s backs?
Bill telling an adidas guy that offers to recruit for him ok. The adidas guy didn’t say I’m going to recruit illegally for you. He said I’m going to send players your way, not I’m going to pay for players. I assume there are legal ways outsiders can recruit for you.
I’m uneasy about this mess, but unless there is something concrete that says oherwise, Bill is my guy.
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I’m still not sure where the offer comes from. I also think he’d be a bad fit in the NBA but that’s another discussion.
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@dylans One minor point – folks go to prison based on circumstantial evidence. You don’t need blood tests, or an eye witness. And that’s in a criminal matter, not our assessment of whether some likely occurred or not. But I get your point. And I respect everyone that says “Bill is my guy.” That’s loyalty, which is an incredible quality, and the “evidence” is not completely clear.
The question is what does one need here to reach a conclusion. My conclusion is murky because of Self’s unequivocal statement. It’s now black and white because of what Self said. There is no grey. Either he’s a liar and a cheat, or he’s a man of incredible integrity in a world of slime. His statement (unfortunately if untrue) paints him into a corner. If his statement is true, the truth will prevail.
He could have said - “KU has provided no inducements to players. As for third parties, I have no direct knowledge of any of anything like that. I do know what we’ve heard from the trial. It is disappointing. And of course, in this business, you hear whispers. My job and duty is to make sure we do not engage in that conduct as University. When I have learned that a player’s eligibility may be compromised, we have worked to resolve the issue, and at times, we don’t play that individual. You saw that last season. Adidas is a private company, of course, and makes their own decisions in the best interests of their company. My commitment is that Kansas will not engage in any of that.”
I’m not saying that’s a perfect draft, but I’m quite sure this type of suggestion was made by an attorney involved in this – if not, they should seek other counsel.
And it kind of says the same thing. Just with a bit more wiggle room maybe. Again, a first draft that should be modified I’m sure.
I had mentioned a while back that there is real scenario where Self does not return as the coach. That is significantly in play.
This is not a criminal case where the standard of proof is very high. So I’m not giving Self the benefit of the doubt completely, because of what we know so far, but his firm statement certainly has to be considered. Since he is a man we have all respected, that statement has significant weight with me.
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@HighEliteMajor I guess the difference is you have been busting Self’s balls since he couldn’t win a second national championship and I have been supporting him as a great coach/ambassador. It’s just the camps we are in; I’m willing to give him the benefit of doubt while it seems you’re not.
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Frankly, other than the KT phone conversation in which he never mentioned money and can be interpreted in any of 50 different ways, there is really nothing that indicate KU paid or conspired to pay anyone. Evidence presented at the trail indicate that KU was not aware of payment made to the Prestons who actively tried to keep KU in the dark…and Preston never played an official game for KU.
Coach Self contact with Gassnola can be explained very easily since he was a consultant for Adidas and as such in a position to influence players via his AAU contacts and KU does have a contract with Adidas which I am sure includes a tacit expectation by KU that Adidas will help with recruiting.
More importantly, If Preston was worth at least $90K, is there any doubt that Zion Williamson was worth considerable more, particularly when the evidence presented during the FBI trial indicates his family was asking for more money, housing and jobs? I have seen many reports on the Internet (I have not personally checked them) that Williamson’s mother had declared bankruptcy not that long ago and now lives in am $800K home. Did Zion and family suddenly had a change of heart and decided they would forego all the money and Zion would play for Duke with no strings attached? Where are the questions for Duke and Coach K? Why is the MSM not all over this? How about Sean Miller? There was a lot more testimony directly involving him and yet the two schools bearing the brunt of the MSM are KU and Louisville, the two Adidas flagship schools. How about Under Armour and the $60K allegedly paid to Silvio’s guardian to go to Maryland?
I am not big on conspiracies but it smells like a preemptive strike by Nike against the competition and using the FBI as its pawn.
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@BShark Do they still want to play us?
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Again I think the Guilty ruling makes us look better and as @JayHawkFanToo said you can interpreted in several different ways. He didn’t say we will give him all that he is asking for, we all know recruiting is game and you have to say whatever you can to keep on the scent. I’ll prob be dead before Dook is looked into for the top 3 players they got, one in which we know wanted to get paid. Question for everyone, We known Self has held out guys and currently is SDS, If we had Zion and all of this came out would he withhold him too? Coach K didn’t hold out Carter last season tho his name was out in several reports and hasn’t held out anyone that I can remember. He thinks/knows hes Untouchable at this point IMO.
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@dylans I can assure you that you are in much greater proximity to Self’s “balls” than I have ever been. Hard to move from your vision to see clearly. But I guess you are just a true fan. Superior in all regards. A member of the “I’m more of a fan than you are crowd” then. Always an entertaining, yet shallow, reply.
@JayHawkFanToo I am more concerned about what we don’t know. Other info. Squealers that are now convicted. What we do know can be lawyered, of course, as you have done. And I think we overlook the fact that if Adidas reps and Self were working together, the communication with players’ parents/guardians would necessarily include the concept that Self doesn’t know – meaning the Adidas reps would posture that way. But that is speculation.
I may be more into conspiracy theories when money is involved. Or certain “causes.” I think another conspiracy
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if you followed the trial, there was testimony that KU personnel was asking Billy increasingly more questions about his recruitment and his mom kept texting him telling him what to say; she went as far as suggesting to Gassnola to say they were romantically involved so the payments would not be deemed illegal, or so she thought. Based on the information available to date, there is nothing that leads me to believe KU knew of the payments and as soon as it suspected it, reported it to the NCAA and sat Billy who never played a game.
If Adidas was paying players on behalf of KU, Ayton, Langford and Williamson would have surely landed at KU and not Arizona and Duke…at least one of them. Remember that up until he picked Arizona, Ayton was considered 100% for KU and until the very end so was Romeo Langford
I believe Coach Self’s statement was pretty straight forward and probably a lot more assertive than he was advised it needed to be by his and KU’s lawyers. Until I see evidence…any evidence to the contrary, I have to take Coach Self’s word. The evidence to date seems to indicate he runs a clean program.
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@JayHawkFanToo Just thoughts here – if Self and the main recruiter knew of the payments. Or if they were aware vaguely that Adidas helped. All of that could have occurred. Would the compliance office know if Self hid his knowledge (vague or otherwise) from them? It would make great sense to appear ignorant on all fronts. Of course, one can appear ignorant because they really are ignorant. I personally like your scenario the best.
If there were payments to players you mentioned, of course, Adidas (we) could have been outbid. Which goes to some of your prior points.
Really, either we did it and other are too; or we didn’t.
That goes to something I said before. If we did it, and other did, and they target us with sanctions, we should blow the whole thing up. Expose everything we know. Burn it down. Because there is no freaking way that Williamson was not paid to go to Duke given the KT stuff. No way.
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If Adidas was willing to play $90K for Preston who was ranked near the bottom of the top 20, I doubt it would have been outbid on much higher ranked players like Williamson, Ayton and Langford. When you lose all 3 it would appear to indicate that KU is not willing to pay or have someone pay on its behalf for players.
I doubt if we will ever know all that goes on behind the scenes. Maybe a follow up movie to Blue Chips is needed.
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@JayHawkFanToo That is just wildly speculative. You are assuming we would not have been out bid. It would seem, if this narrative is correct, we (Adidas) might have been outbid a lot. Or that a recruit might take say $90,000 to come to KU but might want $120,000 to go to somewhere less appealing. For Williamson, maybe his price for Duke was lower. All speculative, but I sure wouldn’t assume we couldn’t be out bid.
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Indiana is an Adidas school.
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If Adidas was willing to pay $90K for Preston, I am sure it would have paid at least 2 or 3 times as much for Williamson or Ayton, who allegedly went to Arizona for $100K. Adidas has less schools to feed than Nike and obviously a smaller budget but, given the chance, I would think they would not pass on such high profile prospect unless there is push back from the program. Hard to tell what the going price for a top prospect is anymore.
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@JayHawkFanToo Ok, I understand your thought. But maybe Ayton liked warm weather and $100,000 vs. cold weather and $150,000. Who knows?
@BShark And …?
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I was talking to FanToo. He referenced missing players, but Langford went to a school with the same shoe affiliation as KU. The other two went to Nike schools of course.
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If I recall correctly he decommited from Louisville, another Adidas school. Looks like Langford was going to end up at Adidas school anyway and it was Indiana because he wanted to be the local player/hero that revived the program.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@dylans I can assure you that you are in much greater proximity to Self’s “balls” than I have ever been. Hard to move from your vision to see clearly. But I guess you are just a true fan. Superior in all regards. A member of the “I’m more of a fan than you are crowd” then. Always an entertaining, yet shallow, reply.
I believe I said you bust his balls. I don’t recall you adamantly supporting Self in any way, but you sure are quick to pile on. No game interst only negative FBI info. Now you imply I suck his dick in a very graphic way. Classy as always. Thanks!
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Okay. I just wanna be clear here. Now that Coach Self has come out and said he has not and does not offer inducements nor knows of any 3rd party inducements. Are we back to the program is clean? And coaches are clean?
I just wanna be sure today what the consensus view is here. Cause I had thought just not long ago it was that everybody is doing it, and we should expect the same if we wish to win.
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I still think what I’ve always thought about it.
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@dylans Just pretend he’s a fan with a different opinion, and don’t look too closely. It’s easier that way.
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Probably a Missouri grad.
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Being right doesn’t matter when frail emotions are at work. It never has. I chuckle when I think about how many things that the Self is infallible crowd has cried about, only to see Self actually employ the exact strategy that was suggested. Higher volume three point shooting, four out/one in, using an offense that fits the personnel, more ball handling on the floor, playing the best player over experience, giving freshman game minutes so they can develop. Lest we forget. Ah, but the anger continues …
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I agree with @HighEliteMajor either Self is a clean or he’s gonna end up looking like a cheat. I’m not a 100% which to believe at this point. We’ve had some piss poor recruiting classes at times if Adidas is really paying our recruits. There is also a chance that Townsend is aware of the payment behind Selfs back or he could be the fall guy. I’ve always thought everyone got a little something behind closed doors, I didn’t think it was 100k for sure. I’d wonder if we will resign Adidas or try to go with Nike. The trouble is with Nike (wether cheating or not) is that we won’t be the top dog like we are at Adidas.
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HEM’s coaching record is impeccable.
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All the shoecos operate the same way, some are just better at it and have not gotten caught…yet. Adidas needs a big program in the Midwest and is willing to pay for it; Nike has the big football programs in the region and football is still the king. Maybe Under Armour is interested and could make a decent offer but no way Nike pays. It just does not need KU, at least not at what Adidas is paying, and it would face backlash from other programs like Duke, Kentucky and UNC.
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BShark said:
HEM’s coaching record is impeccable.
True for almost all of us, isn’t it? I myself am unbeaten in Division 1!
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BYU has been hammered by the NCAA. Lawl.
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Apparently the NCAA had evidence that he received $$ from boosters.
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@BShark - “There was no institutional knowledge of or involvement in the infractions. In fact, the NCAA found that Coach Rose promotes an atmosphere of compliance and monitors the program.”
Uh oh for KU…
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Gorilla72 said:
@BShark - “There was no institutional knowledge of or involvement in the infractions. In fact, the NCAA found that Coach Rose promotes an atmosphere of compliance and monitors the program.”
Uh oh for KU…
They had proof that BYU boosters gave him money. We will see what happens here. Thankfully, Billy didn’t play. Silvio did but they only have “proof” he got $2500 to pay for some online classes.
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This is really weird…
BYU said in a statement that the university, the coaching staff and the athletic department had no knowledge of the infractions and that they disagreed with vacating wins. The NCAA didn’t identify Emery by name but the university’s statement said the case involved him.
The university also said that it plans to appeal the decision because it considers the vacating of wins to be too harsh and not consistent with recent cases.
"This sanction includes the most severe vacation-of-record penalty ever imposed in the history of NCAA Division I basketball for infractions that included no institutional knowledge or involvement," the statement said. "In addition, in the case most similar to this situation, appropriate penalties were imposed, but no wins were vacated."
Cougars coach Dave Rose said in a statement that he was disappointed by the ruling and supported the university’s plan to appeal.
Emery withdrew from school last season due to personal problems and the reports of improper benefits. The 6-foot-2 guard returned to the program in April and has been reinstated by the NCAA but is sitting out the first nine games of this season. He served as a captain during the 2016-17 season and was third on the team with 13.1 points per game and second with 75 3-pointers.
Emery said on Twitter on Friday that "my intentions were never to hurt the program or university. I’m grateful to Coach Rose and the university for standing by me throughout this entire process."
So…he was reinstated by the NCAA and sitting out 9 games like it has been the case for similar violation but the forfeiting of games is new and seems to be grossly disproportional…in the meantime UNC that offered fake classes to athletes with the full knowledge of the program skates away scot-free?
I believe BYU has a good case to sue the NCAA.
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The NCAA is so pissed about the federal cases they absolutely hammered BYU. Tark’s axiom proves true yet again.
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LOL. I bet Cleveland Stage is breathing a sigh of relief.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
LOL. I bet Cleveland Stage is breathing a sigh of relief.
That kid who got a pair of sneakers and a rental car to take his girlfriend out for a weekend is as relieved as can be
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Shouldn’t he be suing his dad also?
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I was just trying to read through this. His attorneys are saying Self and KT knew of the bribe payments to SDS. So I assume they will be trying to get call logs , texts, and emails from the school.
Of course he lawyers are going to say whatever they can to try and help his client.
His problem is his dad not Adidas.
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https://twitter.com/adamzagoria/status/1064522314111430656?s=21
https://twitter.com/adamzagoria/status/1064522925951328257?s=21
https://twitter.com/adamzagoria/status/1064524504255352832?s=21
https://twitter.com/adamzagoria/status/1064527719738822658?s=21
https://twitter.com/jessenewell/status/1064523713402548224?s=21
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I’m going to guess that Adidas just settles this out of court. They have a lot more at stake than the $2M they’ll end up paying him. Not even worth the risk from what could come out even during a motion to dismiss. Pay him and move on.
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Lol, Bowen is a real piece of work.
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@BShark Can’t blame him for taking free money… A few Million dollars and a nice little NDA will likely be coming.
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@BShark Oh such a reach on both lol. But no way in Hell KU Lawyers allow KU to be involved in a lawsuit by someone they never recruited.
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@Kcmatt7 Ok, then who else do you pay … again. Others? Preston? He didn’t get to play. That quick advice should be reconsidered.
This lawsuit might not survive a motion to dismiss.
But it should concern everyone here. Don’t just brush it off. As I mentioned a few weeks ago, and I believe this firmly, there is a real chance Bill Self is not here next year as a result of all of this mess. This sort of stuff, where folks can be deposed, is concerning.
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@HighEliteMajor Sure. Pay him too.
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@Kcmatt7 Glad you’re not a lawyer.
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This is absolutely laughable by Bowen. He knew the rules just as much as ADIDAS did and broke them. He knew if he got caught, he would lose his amateur status and have to leave college. Why don’t I sue GM next time I get a speeding ticket because they make the car capable of going faster than the limit, Lmao what a tool.
