CNN != Fox
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@approxinfinity and neither did Kavanaugh. Do you have a means of seeing the past like Harry Potter?
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I will say will be more fun hanging out with my buds here when we can be arguing over the starting five of a National Championship season!
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Not that I don’t enjoy a good honest give and take on politics and culture or even religion. Maybe we’ll leave sex out of the mix if you Lefties will let us.
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@Marco said that Kavanaugh was just was a horny guy trying to get laid, insinuating that whatever happened to Ford didnt matter provided no rape occurred. We both know that’s not true. The things he was accused of are not okay if they did happen.
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@mayjay Fox is basically state run media at this point. Why shouldn’t CNN do the same thing? Take the talking points from the Democratic party and just run with them 24/7, just Fox does for the Republicans party. Neither network is invested in deep journalism. Why not give up the ghost of integrity and just be the soulless trashy counterpoint to Fox News? It is their destiny.
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@approxinfinity wait… is your take that CNN is not a talking mouth for the left?
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@Woodrow I’m saying they don’t have the same close relationship with the Dems like Fox has with the Republicans. FOX would never ever say the Republicans were outplayed if the situation were reversed. They’d say how they the Republicans were screwed by the evil Democrats or whatever.
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@Woodrow You might not realize it, but the far left of the Dem party is constantly trashing MSM outlets almost as much as The Donald does. By their theory, MSM gave way too much fawning attention to Trump’s campaign and elevated him to first the Repub nomination, and then to the White House. Same with the Morning Joe hosts–vicious comments about them for interviewing Trump early on before they all enemyzed each other (if that isn’t a word it should be). (BTW, I think @approxifinity is just advocating CNN moving further or more consistently left to offset Fox–I don’t place him among the rabid group of haters I described above.)
If you have followed my posts over time, you will recall that I have often pointed out how Dems turn on each other in elections while Republicans seem to be able (lately, at least) to rally together for an ovarching goal. Witness the Graham transformation from early campaign “Trump can go to Hell” to Trump sycophant today. Compare to Dems driving Franken out of the Senate.
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The problem is that we have lost the ability to look at things objectively.
On another thread @Bwag said Kavanaugh was more of a centrist. That’s flatly untrue. Kavanaugh is conservative. We can argue about his fitness and have differing opinions. We shouldn’t be debating whether or not he’s conservative, because he very clearly is. However, saying that Kavanaugh is a centrist moves the lines because if Kavanaugh is viewed as a centrist, it makes justices like Alito and Roberts look more liberal, and makes progressives like Kagan look like extremists.
Think of it in terms of a weightlifting class.
If the average person in my weightlifting class can bench press 100 pounds, someone that can bench 75 pounds is a little below average, and someone that can bench 125 pounds is above average. That’s simple enough. That also means that someone that can bench 150 pounds seems pretty strong and someone that can bench 200 pounds is basically Hercules in that group.
If you move the averages, though, things change. Let’s say my group now is a bunch of NFL linebackers. The same guy that looked like Hercules because he could bench 200 pounds in the 100 pound average group now looks like a weakling surrounded by NFL guys that are benching 250+ pounds with ease.
I didn’t change the strength of the guy that could lift 200 pounds. He can lift the same 200 pounds. I just changed the comparison. He went from being well above average to being well below average.
The GOP is doing the same thing. They are changing where the middle is perceived to make anyone to the left of that seem extreme, thereby pulling the country further right by arguing that the middle is actually tilted heavily towards conservatism.
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@approxinfinity Fox has more diversity than CNN for sure. See Juan Williams for one, and I’m not talking race at all. I still call CNN the Clinton News Network going back to the 90’s.
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@approxinfinity I’d say CNN is the Democrats media dept. So what we have here is a failure to commicate!
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@mayjay but the Mainstream Media was playing to the Democratic/Clinton strategy because they didnt believe Trump could win or would even stick in the race.
Then they realized he had gained solid footing and had to switch gears.
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@justanotherfan I’d say i see more accurately. And when you read news accounts, how often do you see “Far Left” as a characterization of an individual versus the labeling of individuals as ‘Far Right’? I would warrant a guess it’s upward of 90-10 ratio. All that to say, general perception is definitly skewed by mainstream media & cultural organs.
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Kavanaugh was chosen because he had wide spread bi-partisan support (until it was no longer convenient) and by Centrist I dont deny he falls within the Originalist stripe, but that doesn’t equate specifically go Conservative politics, while I’ll admit it supports a conservative (little ‘c’) approach
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Many on the Right did not favor Kavanaugh except for the non-controversial nature of the pick, the exception being his extensive documentary trail was of some concern (because Democrats…as was seen in resulting circus)
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The fact that his extensive documentary trail was not sufficient for Dems to derail him I place as Evidence #1 of my “Centrist” designation - and I do believe i also called him 'Center-Right" as well. This is what led to the 11:59 Dem strategy -held in reserve- of false, political, character assassination.
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Even all said and done, many Conservatives are banking, hoping agai st hope, that this viscious smear campaign has so infected him that, despite his history and declaration, he’ll becime a more reliable Conservative jurist in mold of Thomas. They are thanking the crazy Dems for potentially making that a reality.
All that said, we will all see over time.
It must also be noted that it is the centrist/liberals of the Republican caucus (ie. Graham, Collins) that led the support of Kavanaugh not the Conservatives. This is telling and here’s why: the dirty, political hit made against “one of their own” brought a new realization to the broader Republican caucus that it wasn’t just about the excesses of Trump, and if Dems could so viscioulsly malign and smear such a decent more middle of the road person, then where do they end up in that politics as personal destruction environment. Re-watch Graham’s lambaste in that light and it tells you everything.
I’ve hated Graham and McCain for quite a while ( won’tgo into that here, now) but this has been eye-opening for me in a way you can’t imagine. I follow politics closely, and until this last week I had no idea that Grham was 1) unmarried and 2) that there could be rumors that he was gay. Hmmmm…how did I find that out this week? Because when he stepped off the reservation of one of the Left’s ie Dems favorite Republicans, and was so effective in exposing their evil deeds, the cultural gate-keepers of ‘liberal’ culture started outing him with homosexual taunts. Now if that isnt hypocrisy of a whole new order, just wow! It’s power and control, and Democrats are seeing their levers of control being eroded and it’s a fight to the death by any means necessary.
See you in November! Guess that has both political and basketball implications!
Next.
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@Bwag Living here in SC since 2006, it has been amusing to see Graham try to fight off the “he is too liberal” attacks when almost everyone knew that it was the rumors about him being gay that really were driving the RW animus against him.
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When I am defining Kavanaugh as conservative, I am doing so based on his rulings, which are heavily conservative. I am not basing this on talking points or the politics involved in the hearings.
There are several websites out there that predict SCOTUS rulings by examining all of the justices previous rulings and score them based on that. Kavanaugh consistently scored as the most conservative or second most conservative judge on the D.C. circuit (his former court).
Kavanaugh scores as more conservative than Scalia ideologically (in the chart below, Scalia would have landed just slightly to the left of Alito and Gorsuch).
That chart is the one I was referencing earlier. The article that I pulled that from is actually from this summer, so it pre-dates the political fallout from the accusations. Even then, the estimation was that while Kavanaugh’s writing style was similar to Alito, he was probably more conservative than both Alito and Gorsuch, and his record suggests he falls only slightly left of Thomas.
As you can see from the chart, he’s pretty far to the right, more so even than either Ginsburg or Sotomayor are to the left.
Again, if you want to cite a centrist, it was Kennedy (slightly left of center). Roberts is more moderate, but certainly on the conservative side of the spectrum.
Kavanaugh was expected to be either the second or third most conservative judge on the bench, depending on if his rulings land closer to his ideology score or his writing score. Either way, he would not have been a centrist. Perhaps his rulings land him in the cluster with Alito and Gorsuch - solidly conservative, but not extremely so like Thomas. That’s still not centrist.
I will repeat - I am not saying that Kavanaugh having a conservative record is a bad thing for him specifically. I’m just saying that you cannot say that a judge with his record is a centrist because that is flat out untrue.
Call him what he is - a conservative judge.
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Enough said moving along.
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@approxinfinity I didn’t say that he was just a horny guy trying to get laid, come on… Do you really believe that he ran a gang rape scheme? If so, that is a bigtime opinion, and I do mean opinion.
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Don’t Worry Marco
@approxinfinity feels that you judge a person with no evidence. It doesn’t matter. As long as you accuse. that is all that matters.
It doesn’t matter that if all the people even the best friend of the accuser denied of any preparty meeting. It doesn’t matter that the second lady that claimed a rape changed her story on media, and that the ones she claimed were there. One is dead and another denied even knowing the accuser.
It doesn’t matter. All that matter is that you accuse.
Its the new Lib justice. Well until it’s one of their own. Then they’ll be singing a different tune. Look at Booker a Dem he admitted to sexual abuse. Yet he gets to judge others. Crazy.
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@justanotherfan exactly. There is no objectivity. I find this deeply depressing. Plenty of half baked nonsense masquerading as fact, or even rational opinion. Where are the rational conservatives? The ones that say what Justice Stevens said about Kavanaugh? Why cant I find more of that in real life?
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@mayjay I some how missed all that, and I follow pretty closely. My beef is that he had his head up MCCains, well I won’t go there given the new information.
I lost all respect for McCain with McCain-Feingold and his incumbent protection racket attack on 1A…and his stupidity to see the unintended consequences of that. I guess I pegged them then what now migt be called deep state tactics.
I always thought Graham had a failure of backbone after his role in the Clinton impeachment deal, when Republican Senators cut the legs out from under the House “prosecutors “, but that’s going back a ways.
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@justanotherfan thanks for the reference, I’ll take a look. I based my take more from commentariat versus an attempt at deep analysis. That said, I’m always wary of sources when it comes to putting people on a political scale.
For example, I put Nazis on the left with their related Socialist brethren. In that manner I ascribe more to libertarian model than the modern scholastic re-writers.
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@approxinfinity it’s true that the frontal lobe breaks down with age. Justice Stephens, God bless his doting soul.
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@approxinfinity is this the kind of rationality you want!
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@Bwag actually no, I said “rational conservative”, I know the concept may be hard to understand. Try again?
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@approxinfinity funny how you just dismiss that picture. There is shit like that all social media from nut job liberals.
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@Woodrow my previous post about this - https://kubuckets.com/topic/7864/kavanaugh/112
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Finding trolls on the left in response to my post does not justify the lack of rationality on the right, it confirms it.
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approxinfinity said:
@justanotherfan exactly. There is no objectivity. I find this deeply depressing. Plenty of half baked nonsense masquerading as fact, or even rational opinion. Where are the rational conservatives? The ones that say what Justice Stevens said about Kavanaugh? Why cant I find more of that in real life?
Objectivity? You have no evidence yet you presume our new supreme justice is guilty? Really?
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@DoubleDD I believe he should have been disqualified based upon temperament, partisanship, and lying about being of drinking age when he wasn’t and attempting to downplay the extent of his drinking. I stated so. But again you demonstrate that you don’t care what I individually think, you’ve lumped me into a group you can program your counterpoint against (see my link a few posts up).
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The former Washington, D.C. bureau chief for CNN ripped the media for its extreme bias, misreporting, and low standards as they joined the Democratic party in launching an all-out assault to stop Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh from being confirmed to the nation’s highest court.
The fact that your conservative “news” source Daily Wire ( est. 2015) claims that Sesno ripped the media for “standards as they joined the Democratic party in launching an all-out assault to stop Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh” is frankly misreported BS itself, as it is insinuating that Sesno stated this as opinion. I watched the piece and this was not close to his quote. So hungry are we for counterpoint that we eat up BS.
Can you call out this Daily Wire site for having low standards when in fact their standards are not for impartial news but rather weaponized information masquerading as fact?
I feel like a broken record.
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@approxinfinity I agree w/you. He lied about the definitions in his yearbook, boofing, Devil’s Triangle, and FFFFF. The way he talked to ms Klobuchar was so rude, I was really taken back. Have you ever blacked out? Was he suppose to question her? Was he the best we could do? They never released all his info and had a very limited investigation. How do you not find that he started a bar fight, in 6 investigations? A guy was treated in the ER. Did anyone read the letter he wrote to his cohorts to secure the beach rental house for beach week? Investigations found or didn’t find what they wanted. There were witnesses never contacted, why? I know why.
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approxinfinity said:
@DoubleDD I believe he should have been disqualified based upon temperament, partisanship, and lying about being of drinking age when he wasn’t and attempting to downplay the extent of his drinking. I stated so. But again you demonstrate that you don’t care what I individually think, you’ve lumped me into a group you can program your counterpoint against (see my link a few posts up).
I wish I could believe you. I really do. Yet you keep speaking of him as guilty. Even though evidence shows it’s not so. If you want to move the goal posts I’m cool, but I’m totally against ruining a persons life over one persons testimony. A testimony that even the accusers best friend won’t even confirm, and even denies. Please make me believe.
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@DoubleDD Oh I do think he did what he is accused of. And i think the investigation was artificially restricted. But thats not why I think he should be disqualified. I think the bar is even higher than “not having committed sexual assault” as to whether someone should be a justice on the highest court in the Judicial branch. Things like “not a partisan hack” and “not a belligerent d–k” and “not a liar” are the kinds of things I’m looking for.
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@DoubleDD here’s a comprehensive list regarding who said what about Kavanaugh: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/01/us/politics/kavanaugh-fbi-investigation-witnesses.html
Can we please stop with the one accuser/detractor fantasy? It’s infuriating. Pretending certain people don’t exist is not a good sign regarding how this Justice will rule.
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@DoubleDD Actually, the best friend doesn’t deny it; she just didn’t remember but had no reason to. She said she believes Ford. Four of Kav’s college friends (including his roommate), however, do not believe his testimony and expressly accused him of perjury.
You can decide you do not care what he is accused of perjuring himself about, but that doesn’t mean those who knew him best didn’t accuse him. Just be intellectually honest and admit that you think it doesn’t matter if he lied to the Senate about his drinking and his behavior while drinking.
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Speaking of moderate Republicans, Nikki Haley resigned today, unfortunately.
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https://twitter.com/roddreher/status/1049284597031346176?s=21
They also ran a story on Kavanough throwing ice!
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@Woodrow Legitimate news is not fabricated based upon what “half the country is thinking”. The news is the news.
From a Fox News perspective of “the news as a weopon”, this guy’s comment begins to make more sense.
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@approxinfinity HAHA OK!! I hope liberal keep doing what they do. Let me know how that works out!
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Woodrow said:
https://twitter.com/roddreher/status/1049284597031346176?s=21
They also ran a story on Kavanough throwing ice!
Throwing ice that sparked a bar fight where someone ended up in the hospital and someone else went to jail.
Kavanaugh showed his temper and character in his hearing when he started yelling at Democratic senators. Last month, some on this board mocked Serena Williams for being a loser and throwing a tantrum at the US Open when she yelled at an umpire.
Oh wait, that was you. Hmmm…
Guess tantrums are okay for SCOTUS justices, but not for pro tennis players. Noted.
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justanotherfan said:
Woodrow said:
https://twitter.com/roddreher/status/1049284597031346176?s=21
They also ran a story on Kavanough throwing ice!
Throwing ice that sparked a bar fight where someone ended up in the hospital and someone else went to jail.
Kavanaugh showed his temper and character in his hearing when he started yelling at Democratic senators. Last month, some on this board mocked Serena Williams for being a loser and throwing a tantrum at the US Open when she yelled at an umpire.
Oh wait, that was you. Hmmm…
Guess tantrums are okay for SCOTUS justices, but not for pro tennis players. Noted.
I
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@justanotherfan Wait… You think these two are the same thing?
If so then it’s not really worth my time responding but I will.
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Yes, I think it’s worse to spark a bar fight than yell at a referee/umpire as a competitor during a sporting event.
Yes, I think it’s worse for a federal judge to yell at Senators during a Senate hearing than it is for a competitor in a sporting event to yell at a referee/umpire.
Perhaps we differ on that. If so, you are obviously entitled to your own opinion on that.
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When actions result in a bloody head and an ER trip, there is no comparison. There could have been charges. Funny how that wasn’t found in ALL those investigations.
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I think it is funny that people are acting like if they were in the same position as Kanvanaugh they would just sit there and be calm. Is that the ideal situation sure. However, when people are attacking you and everything you have worked your entire life for then sometimes emotions get the best of you. That is life. I am going to go out on a limb and say that has happened to everyone. Obviously not on this platform or scale but it is human nature. It is just another example of liberals nitpicking every little thing. As I said keep doing what you are doing and let me know how it works out. See last election.
As for Serena it is not remotely even close to the same situation. 99% of the people in sports agree she was getting her ass kicked and threw a tantrum. These two things are not even in the same realm of being connected. Keep reaching.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
When actions result in a bloody head and an ER trip, there is no comparison. There could have been charges. Funny how that wasn’t found in ALL those investigations.
There could have been charges but there was no probable cause.
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@approxinfinity I feel like she was a bright light in the White House. She was stable! She could tell trump what to do.
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@Woodrow not if you want to be on the highest court. You can’t attack other people who are not attacking you. She was calm and he side stepped her questions.
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You always seem to indicate than when any non-liberal source publishes something it is misrepresenting facts but when CNN or other liberal publications do it they are telling the truth even when CNN has had to walk back or correct stories numerous times recently because they were misrepresented or incorrectly reported. Your double standard is dizzying, to say the least.
Now, you say that Kavanaugh should not be confirmed because of his temperament…let me ask you this, if you are ever in a position like Kavanaugh and someone from your HS days makes an unfounded and unverifiable accusation that you know is not true, how upset would you be and how hard would you defend yourself? I don’t know about you abut I would defend myself vigorously.
Now, here is another that you can judge for yourself that explains the entire fiasco. There is a link to the recording so you don’t have to believe me or rely on anyone else misreporting. I can almost predict your answer will be…do you believe me or your lying ears?
