If The Royals Sign Luke Heimlich
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He can have a second chance, I hope it’s not with the Royals.
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@KCmatt7 McDonalds is hiring. Somethings you can’t come back from.
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@dylans Ok, so we should just kill him then right? Instead of having him be a drain on society and collecting welfare for the next 40+ years.
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@Kcmatt7 I agree with you on this. If someone has committed a crime and fulfilled their punishment then they deserve a second chance.
I remember all the Chiefs fans in a uproar when they drafted Ty Hill. All of them saying I am not going to cheer for the Chiefs anymore and I am not going to go to another game. Now they chant his name on punt returns and you see his jerseys all over town.
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@Kcmatt7 I don’t think the State should kill him, but I know from experience that someone who commits abuse over a 2 year period, pleads guilty to avoid jail by going to therapy, and then denies it ever happened is likely to not be your model for someone deserving a second chance. I would never trust anyone like that ever again.
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Well, if we ask the left, the MLB teams shouldn’t even be able to ask - https://www.nelp.org/wp-content/uploads/Ban-the-Box-Fair-Chance-State-and-Local-Guide.pdf
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@mayjay Then I don’t know what you do with him. He will cost the tax payers millions of dollars living off of government programs because no matter how good of a person he is from here on out, he will probably never be given a 2nd chance if he isn’t given one now.
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@HighEliteMajor While I don’t agree with that, at all. I also feel like you’re inserting a broad thing into a very specific case just to say something political and attempt to rile up “leftists.”
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To me its one of those deals that I would stay completely away from, the kid isn’t the next great not worth baggage to sign him. Now I suppose there is a remote chance that he isn’t guilty but it would be tough for the average 6 year old to fabricate such a story. I’ll tell you this if it was my daughter or niece I’d be in Leavenworth for the rest of my days. Cases like this are why public hangings and the electric chair should be still in use. Let’s not give the attention they are after, lets give them what the deserve. Why we will put down dogs that harm children but not others I’ll never understand. This isn’t a political debate (you won’t change my mind and I probably can’t change yours), if your opinion varies thats fine and we can still be friends.
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@Kcmatt7 Why? Being a pro athlete isn’t a right it’s a privilege. How is getting an free education and an accounting job worse than death?
1800+ players drafted this year and the child molester wasn’t one of them is a great sign the apocalypse may be further away than many think.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@HighEliteMajor While I don’t agree with that, at all. I also feel like you’re inserting a broad thing into a very specific case just to say something political and attempt to rile up “leftists.”
HEM and Mayjay are best friends.
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@BShark Speaking from the Left, I find it amusing that both sides generalize about the other side.
Note to world: All generalizations are false, including this one!
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Do I want the Royals to sign him? No
Do I think he should be blackballed out of baseball? No.
The thing that sticks out to me here is that this is only public knowledge because the state of Oregon made a mistake and did not properly put him into the offender registry. He went to the police station and registered, as he is required to do (and will continue to be required to do). The police failed to take his prints, which meant that when his information went to the state, it could not be added, as it was incomplete. This triggered a failure to register criminal notice.
If not for that, we wouldn’t know about any of this because it was a juvenile offense that was sealed.
The other thing that bothers me about this is that all of this attention will likely result in people identifying the victim in this situation. She does not deserve, and should not be, publicly identified. Having this information about Heimlich become public (rather than remaining sealed) could result in her identification and further trauma/humiliation/scrutiny/pain, etc. for her.
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@dylans Did he get a job? I haven’t heard anything about him having a job. I would find it hard to believe that he would land a job after a quick google search.
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@Kcmatt7 What do you think folks do that commit crimes like this when they are minors? Do you think they are prohibited from working? They have an abuse registry in Kansas that potential employers can access – can’t work around kids. Interestingly, in baseball, he would be working around adults. My point is just that it should not be “hard to believe” that he would be able to work.
Now, I’m not trying to provoke anyone … really.
https://www.aclu-nj.org/theissues/criminaljustice/whysexoffenderlawsdomoreha/
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@Kcmatt7 I doubt he has a career yet, he’s still in college getting a free education. I never said he shouldn’t be allowed to work. I just believe his past actions are coming to haunt him. Just the same as a person with high character will get more opportunities, he is being denied for obvious personality flaws. If Colin Kaepernick has a negative impact on revenue what would a known child molester do for you?
If his past actions don’t have any lasting consequences (like they did with for the girl) what’s the point in having morals or laws?
9 out of 10 participants enjoying gang rape, but that doesn’t make it right.
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@HighEliteMajor I would think that most people who commit crimes like that, when they are that age, are able to find work because it is never made public. Most minors would not have had this same issue. In this case, had a clerical issue not have been made, Luke Heimlich is a 1st round pick and a millionaire right now.
But, because his particular case has been made so public, due to said clerical error, I find it hard that he would be able to land a job. Possibly ever.
I have no idea what the best course of action is in this particular case. The publicity alone makes this case unique.
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@dylans I’m really not trying to argue, fwiw. Most of my posed questions are serious questions.
It is a horrible business move. I totally agree.
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@Kcmatt7 There are a number of companies fully willing to hire cons and give them a chance to prove themselves, some with the support of state rehab agencies. I would feel very differently about Heimlich had he simply taken his lumps after getting the benefit of the plea. It is his 180 degree reversal of being willing to be held accountable that I find worrisome.
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Incidentally, had he pled not guilty there might well be reason to believe his claim of innocence. This type of case can involve parents who deflect attention away from an abusive father by targeting a relative or family friend. These horrible people work really hard to convince the kid that something bad will happen if the daddy abuser is named, and they pretty much can brainwash kids to anything. Anyone who thinks little kids don’t tell untruths about these things is believing an old myth. Kids can be frightened into saying anything.
It is all just one horrid arena of crime with numerous people affected so many ways.
Guilty pleas tend to reduce the chances this happened.
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There are lots of reasons to plead out. He says he took the plea at the advice of his attorney and to spare the family.
It must be remembered that if the case goes to trial, the victim will likely have to testify (and be subject to cross examination) in open court. That’s a lot that the entire family would have to go through.
On top of that, it would be part of the public record. By taking the plea, everything was sealed. Yeah, that protects him, but it also protects the victim from having her life invaded later on.
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@justanotherfan I understand all that, but I guess I should explain my strong reaction instead of couching it in generalities.
His story and the way he tells it are just all too familiar to me and remind me of a particular client who also engaged in years of abuse, pled guilty, and then started trying to withdraw his plea on appeal – submitting all types of exemplary letters from his therapist, his pastor, his captain, his NCO, all saying they firmly believed he was innocent despite the plea. After we raised the issue (called “an improvident plea”) on his behalf, and lost, he eventually told me, actually laughing, that it was all a sham and that he wished he could have fooled the appellate judges the way he did everyone else. I asked if he didn’t care what he had done to his daughter by first abusing her and then by getting everyone to think she lied. He replied he didn’t really care because his wife had left with the kids after divorcing him. I hadn’t been fooled, but his ability to seem sincere certainly was remarkable. It was my first in-depth exposure to the sociopaths among us, and scarier than hell when I realized his stay in Leavenworth was only going to be a few years.
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I can completely understand that position. Being in the legal profession, I have seen both sides of it, with innocent people taking pleas and guilty people trying to retract pleas. I don’t know enough about Heimlich himself to speak to his situation, and I worry that all of this attention may result in the victim being publicly identified. The media has done a good job not identifying her, but I don’t know that bloggers/reddit/twitter/facebook/etc. will have the same restraint. After all, it only takes one person leaking that information, then its out there.
My concern is more for the victim’s privacy than what happens to Heimlich at this point. Heimlich can sign or not sign for all I care. That’s up to the individual teams. But this getting into the public sphere has the potential to do real damage to the victim if people do not respect her privacy (and the privacy of the family overall).
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@BShark GM Dayton Moore is seriously looking into Luke. Ugg. Most GMs think he isn’t a top of the rotation starter and thus not worth the pr ding. We’ll see what the hapless royals do.
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Give it another 10 years. The way society is going. His transgressions will be the norm.
On the serious side. If a person does the time, then they should be giving a second chance. Sounds like to me. he went through all the proper steps to amend the crime and put his life on the right path. Who are we to deny him that chance?
Jesus forgives maybe we should too?
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One thing to consider here is a “victim” is only a “victim” if the crime actually occurred. Here, of course, there is the possibility the child was manipulated by an adult. That’s also a “victim.” Concern for this little girl should be present regardless, because a child at that age is not malicious.
Something to consider. You are charged with molesting a child. You didn’t do it. However, the prosecutor offers a deal. You plead guilty, do 30 days in jail, and you do counseling/therapy for 2 years, and you’re done. Or, you go to trial and risk, say, 15 years in prison. Again, you didn’t do it. Sometimes innocent people get proposed excellent plea deals. It’s another way a prosecutor acknowledges the strength of his/her case, or lack thereof.
Remember, prosecutors generally always want a conviction after filing a case, even if their case is bad.
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There is one issue that has not been addressed. There are some crimes of opportunity such as teenagers finding a car with the keys on and taking it for a joy ride, a one time occurrence that will likely not be repeated. Also, some sexual offenses are not clear cut and sometimes unwarranted such as two HS teens having consensual sex only for the girl to either have buyer’s remorse or the parents forcing her to say it was not consensual or the grown up looking female picking a guy at a bar and then turns out she was underage and the male is forever branded a sex offender.
This was not such a case as the abuse apparently happened over a TWO YEAR period…this was not an isolated occurrence but a pattern and a strong indicator that it will happen again.
I believe he should be allowed to make a living but not doing anything that would place in contact or anywhere near young kids and athletes are frequently near kids. As a father and grandfather, I would not want this individual anywhere near my kids or grandkids.
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@HighEliteMajor This Sports Illustrated article presents an extensive discussion of all the consideration involved generally in these cases, as well as a detailed discussion of the issues for Heimlich specifically.
https://www.si.com/mlb/2018/05/16/luke-heimlich-oregon-state
Two points: This article cites says it is “reported” that the therapist’s notes reflect that he denied his guilt throughout the therapy process, but the reporter didn’t see those notes. I thought another article I read, which I referred to in a prior post, said the opposite, but I may have inferred it from the therapist’s reference to how he wrote out his statement admitting guilt “as if he were guilty.” If I misled anyone, I apologize. (I have edited it.)
Second, according to this article he faced 60 weeks of juvie detention if convicted at trial. His plea provided for 44 weeks of juvie that was suspended while he went through probationvand counseling, and then dismissed when he completed both programs. So the amount of time probably wasn’t the determining factor if he falsely pled guilty–it was likely the fact that he would be able after five years to have the record expunged. Another note: he was adjudged by Washington to be a Level I juvenile sexual offender, considered the least likely to repeat.
All in all, a mess.
As to second chances, I would say he has lucked out by having been given a bunch of lenient treatment by his high school and by Oregon State during the pendency of his probation, second chances seldom provided to people who are not rich or athletically gifted.
I guess my bottom line might be that the prosecutors apparently believed he should eventually be able to move on, so maybe he should. I won’t protest if the Royals sign him, especially since he is likely to disappear in the minors for a few years and then time will tell if he can convince the organization and the world that he really does have good character.
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@JayHawkFanToo Remember, the abuse “allegedly” occurred over two years. With a 4-6 year old kid as the one supposedly recalling the events. Man, it’s just hard to really rely on any of that.
@mayjay You are dead on regarding the length of sentence in this deal apparently not being a motivator. Good point.
He admitted he was guilty. We just have to assume that. I’d still sign him. Let’s say as 15 year old he robbed a store and killed someone. I’d say the same thing if since his release from the “system” he was a solid citizen. Folks can turn their lives around after paying their debt to society. That doesn’t mean we have to like them, or even want to be in the same room with them.
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We are talking Dayton Moore too, character is really important to him.
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Hayden’s Zach Harvey pleads no contest to lesser charges related to March 2017 incident
What do you guys think about this?
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The mom of the daughter doesn’t want Luke to even be allowed to pitch at the college level. She seems pretty sure he did it.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I’m fine with him. Just needs to be on a short leash and we need to make that known up front.
This is the type of thing that could literally happen to any guy in high school now, thanks to cell phones and immaturity.
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Very different cases. One was a one time deal that involved only pictures of a 15 years old (likely a selfie) which is not uncommon for teens in HS given the availability of digital photos and cell pones, while the other involved actual physical contact with a 4 year old and happened over a period of two years.
