Rebounding? - - Who the hel is out rebounding who?
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What a win! What a year! Short handed team, playing in the toughest conf in D1 and STILL WINNING 14 straight B12 championships, and then beating Dookie to go to FF??
And who is the best transfer to come to KU ever?? Thinking… thinking…
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You can hyphen that again
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Hey my keys were simple rebound and defend above average while shooting at least average. I think we did 2 outta 3 pretty well. I honestly thought we were done after missing 3 straight open 3s in row there. Amazing heart shown bye the guys, they found a way.
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Loves it…Now the haters and doubters are already talking about Nova beating us. How Nova is better than Puke. I thought Nova struggled against TT. TT missed a whole lot of opps that KU would’ve converted. I’m excited about this Nova game.
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@Bosthawk A transfer named Rex Walters who helped take us to the F4 in 1993 cannot be forgotten!
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@truehawk93 Nova is better than Duke and proved it all season. So what?
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This may sound strange but - -I feel like that this right here might of been the Championship game in the NCAA - - you couldn’t ask for anything more , after the way this tourney has went with all the lower seeds - -A # 1 - vs a # 2 - over time? - -OMG
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I have said it multiple times, but NBA teams will start getting pissed if K keeps going zone. Stunted the development of both Bagley and Carter this year. Had he stayed the course, I think they probably beat us. Instead, they go strictly zone and it cost them.
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@Kcmatt7 Russ rob was right!
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@Buster-1926 ?
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@Kcmatt7 I always wondered why guys want to play for Syracuse
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I’m confused lol
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They went zone because they couldn’t guard M2M. They shot up to the top 10% in defensive efficiency after going zone. They had been out-rebounding opponents by a significant margin. The man is the all-time leader in wins. 5 National Titles. K adjusted to his players as any good coach would. I have no insight on what the NBA thinks about players playing zone, but Boeheim has been getting players drafted for a while now, hasn’t he? Carters foul trouble played a huge factor in the outcome. And Self had an incredible defensive plan.
I think we are starting to learn that having a team full of OAD’s may not be the way to go.
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The difference between Boeheim’s zone and Duke’s zone was something that is not technical. It is the result of K giving up on his players’ failure to play M2M. And that left these freshmen incapable of making the necessary adjustments yesterday.
It actually brings to mind two things that @HighEliteMajor has suggested in the past when he has criticized Self (1) for seeming to be coaching to win the conference rather than post-season, and (2) for being so stubborn not to adjust to the talents of his teams. I haven’t agreed with him but those twin thoughts provide a great framework for Duke’s abysmal response to our attack.
Here is how those things apply: First, K adopted the zone because he was focusing on how the vaunted recruiting class was being left in the ACC dust early on. Virginia’s stifling defense was overwhelming opponents, and K wanted to try something. The Syracuse zone appeared to be an answer because Boeheim always has length, and so does Duke in spades this year, and it helped even up the slow games ACC teams are forced into with conference leader Virginia. It put Duke back in contention–with Virginia and UNC, but not for the long haul.
But the second point relates to K’s strategy and highlights a huge difference between him and Self. K made the move, as I suggested, not because of what his team could do but because of what they wouldn’t do, and that is buy into K’s long held M2M strategy. Self’s stubornness would have had him blow gasket after gasket rather than total trash his entire philosophy of D. He might be willing to give a zone a try for situational circumstances (fouls, or to force an offense out of rythym) but he isn’t going to give up.
K failed to force the talent on his team to its highest levels. (Compare Self’s approach to Malik that has resulted in him becoming a star.) Instead, he adopted the lowest common denominator. A zone like Boeheim’s is not successful all the time, but it is far more nuanced than freshmen can be expected to perfect mid-season. He has used it literally for decades. K’s zone was ad hoc–and like much ad hoc strategizing, left no room or time or practice for making adjustments to unseen circumstances. Like us.
A final note: I think other teams saw Duke’s adoption of the zone as a monster development as if these future pros were now going to be able to just blanket everybody. They were intimidated by thinking it was brilliant. Self seems to have realized that it was really a flashing neon sign of weakness–of all that great talent going to waste.
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@Blown Eh, part of it is sample size. There have been two OAD heavy teams to win the title already. But how many can there even be each year? What’s the definition? I’d say at least 3 OAD starters, which limits the pool to 1-2 teams each year.
@mayjay K gave up on this team defensively when he went zone. This zone was so basic that UNC shredded it multiple times. The biggest issue with Self that @HighEliteMajor and others have an issue with is him playing lower ceiling guys that know the system better. Self playing Silvio in the tournament over Mitch when needed has been a big step in the right direction. I was worried about what would happen if we saw Lightfoot in there against Duke but it never happened.
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@BShark You’re right, that was one of my criticisms. And it appears that Self chose the talent over the guy who knows the system better in this instance.
@mayjay My criticism of Self, going back a number of seasons, was that he did not adjust his system to his talent. It seems obvious that I was correct, right? I mean my biggest criticism, the one that took up enumerable type space hear, the one that I wrote multiple threads regarding – is exactly what he is doing offensively, correct? In fact, I criticized him for trying to fit a square peg in round hole. And Self, the next season, admitted his mistake in doing just that. Here’s a link as a small, but a tidy reminder – https://kubuckets.com/topic/3858/monumental-day-from-the-coach-himself
Now, I have a number of other threads related to three point shooting, our (prior) stale offense, Self’s need to embrace three point shooting, adjusting to the strengths of the team, the example ofhow Izzo changed, etc. Our constant struggle with the fact that Self would not change offensively. Bill Self was not flexible. Bill Self was not willing to change.
But he did change. And although many of us here caught a never ending barrage of “you think you know more than Self”, it is stunningly amazing how things turned out.
Now, to your point – I think you are right. Bill Self would not have switched to zone if he was coaching Duke’s roster, like coach K did. I think he would have demanded better man to man. And I think you have identified a key difference in coach K and Bill Self. It may also be a function of age and current stages of careers. I think 15 years ago coach K might have been more like Self is now.
But what we don’t know is if the demand for man to man would have caused Duke to implode, or not. What I do know is that coach K adjusted, used Justice Winslow at the four spot, and won a national title. I do know that coach K has five rings. Coach K and is record speaks for itself and is nearly unassailable. He’s probably the one guy, along with Coach Roy, that it’s hard to win a debate if you’re claiming Self to be a better coach. The records are just too good.
Let’s not forget that Duke started four freshmen. That is amazing. That probably played a bit into K’s zone decision.
The fact is that the inflexibility, the refusal to adjust, and the demand for perfection within the box of what a great coach prefers is a double edged sword. In the past, I’ve written about how that inflexibility has made Self great. He knows his way is the right way. But it is also a weakness. Doing it “my way” works, when you are great. But that inflexibility and arrogance of method can be one’s downfall. We’ve seen it all with coach Self. But we are in a different era of “Bill Self”, I think we would all agree.
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@HighEliteMajor To be clear I agree with you. I still believe not playing Diallo was wrong.
Self has admitted he was too stubborn before. It really really dislike the whole “you think you know more than coach x” crowd in any fan base. It’s basketball, not quantum physics.
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@BShark “It’s basketball, not quantum physics.” That is beautiful.
But did I tell you I had a thought on spherical standing wave interactions?
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HighEliteMajor said:
@BShark “It’s basketball, not quantum physics.” That is beautiful.
But did I tell you I had a thought on spherical standing wave interactions?
Is it that the fundamental structure of the Universe we live in is a standing wave generating a massive hyperdodecahedron structured plasma field within an inscribed finite sphere of space… like a basketball?
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@StLJhawk From November to April…I live in such a universe.
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@StLJhawk Well … uh … yea. What you said.
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We are absolutely seeing the transformation of Self right before our eyes. He didn’t need a complete rebuild. Just a tweak. He has grown in his ability to not only adapt but go full circle on some philosophies to what the team needs.
Doesn’t make him soft. To bend…
It makes him a better coach. Oh yes. You’re still gonna do things by and large Self’s way. As it should be. But he has now shown willingness to adapt his way enough to give you a chance to be as successful as possible within his way. His system.
The best is yet to come for this program
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The zone is a stop gag solution that raises your floor but also lowers your ceiling. Duke’s weakness was defense and the zone raised that floor quite a bit but in the end it turned out to be not the best solution for the team or to develop players.
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String Theory covers everything - Sheldon Cooper.
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Imagine that, just a month or so ago we wondered on the game chats whether this team could win anything. A transformation like no other I’ve seen
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If you would of told me before the game yesterday that we would out rebound Duke in the game - I say I think you was nuts - -and if you would of told me that we would not only out rebound them - -but out rebound them by 15 - - just kick their tails on the glass? - -I say let me have some of what your smoking. - Then if you would of told me SVI would get TEN - - - YA TEN REBOUNDS - - -I’d say - put the pipe down and slowly back away - -but yet that’s exactly what we did - -what happened. - -Just an crazy performance by the guys So proud hope it carries over to this coming weekend. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
