Breaking Wooden



  • @cragarhawk And somehow Self has done everything at KU with only one POY, and having to defeat three of them (2 consensus–Durant, Griffin, 1 who got most–Hield). With another one possible this year, but fading (Trae). And despite winning the conference for 13 years, Self has had only 4 Big 12 POYs. We could get another this year if voters wake up.

    Say, what is the story with all those OU POYs, anyway?



  • @JayHawkFanToo would it be fair to have taken away the chance of teams lower than an 8 seed a chance to dance? How many of them have had upsets? I have no idea but would be curious.

    The March Carney is the greatest spectacle in American sports. The first weekend is magical and I love hearing about the smaller teams that made it. I think we would lose a lot of the magic if we restricted to 32 (or 36) teams.



  • @JayHawkFanToo “True top 32”? I wanna listen to that debate!



  • @mayjay true story. But isn’t it just further evidence that basketball is a team sport? Not that having a POY doesn’t help. But look at some of the teams that have stacks. Managing too many egos? Things like that. How often do those teams actually cut down the nets? Seems like not often. Not sure how OU gets POY type players. Perhaps it’s like this year. Trae Young wanted to be THE MAN rather then 1/5 of the outfit. Idk

    @approxinfinity I’m with you. The tournament is fantastic as is. Less teams would maybe give the best team a better chance to win it all but would also take away from the overall experience and prestige that goes with it. I’m not for expansion either honestly.



  • @cragarhawk In fact, we already have de facto expansion way beyond the 68 set out on Selection Sunday. All those 30 or more conference tournaments are open to their teams, good and bad, to qualify for the Dance.



  • @approxinfinity

    You have to limit the number in order to have double elimination.

    Has a team ranked lower than 32 ever won the tournament?

    Several ways of doing it.

    • 64 teams - Have first round at campuses and the winners move to the actual tournament.
    • 48 teams - Top 16 get a bye, bottom 32 have a play in game.
    • 80 teams - Top 16 get a bye, bottom 64 have a 2 game play in.

    Can you imagine a 3 game KU - UK or KU - Duke finals series?


  • Banned

    @HighEliteMajor

    I understand your lack of confidence in the Big 12 being a strong basketball conference. I understand that you put a lot of weight on tourney success. Nothing wrong with any of these perceptions.

    However when you say KU couldn’t or wouldn’t win 14 straight in another power conference. Well we just don’t know. You might say it’s on likely, Yet that doesn’t make it a fact or a point to peddle as a fact.

    You see I’m one those that does indeed KU could dominate another power conference. Coach has one of the best regular season win/loss records in the history of the game. Now if he can just translate that to the tourney? People would say UCLA who?



  • The other conferences don’t all play each team twice like the Big XII and some teams 3 times when including the Conference Tournament. The Big XII is worn down come NCAA time. KU may have to play WVU and or TTU a third time and then start the NCAA Tournament. Then again, OU, TCU, KSU, ISU, UT, and Baylor may have to face KU a third time. In other words, its rough out here!



  • @DoubleDD I am sure he is correct that it probably wouldn’t have happened in the ACC or SEC. But why let that fact bother anybody? It is a meaningless statement, concentrating on nonexistent events in order to make some really bizarre point. UCLA’s championship streak likely would not have happened had they been in the ACC. DiMaggio’s streak might not have happened if he had to bat against Yankee pitching. Tom Brady would not have been as successful playing for the Browns. The Civil War might have ended differently if Stuart had scouted more conservatively at Gettysburg. If that petri dish with the penicillin bacteria had not been seen… If Stalin had not purged his generals in the 30’s…

    History is chock full of stuff that happened that might have happened differently. The fact is, regardless of whether the Big 12 lived up to its rankings during the streak, it is and always has been a Power 5 conference, and KU has had to play and win against numerous HOF coaches, several College POYs and All Americans, and numerous pro draft picks.

    This is no Sierra Nevada Directonal School Conference that KU has been winning. Opponents merely needed to win a couple more games in any given year. KU has put together a feat of statistically almost impossible accomplishment. Anyone trying to diminish it by talking about post-season play has missed the point and is just trying to bitch about something. “If Wilt was so good, why not more rings?”



  • @mayjay

    The list of NBA players KU had to compete against is pretty impressive. No one can tell me the Big 12 has had no talent:

    Player College Draft Yr

    Naz Long Iowa State 2017

    Johnathan Motley Baylor 2017

    Monte Morris Iowa State 2017

    Jarrett Allen Texas 2017

    Jawun Evans Oklahoma State 2017

    Wesley Iwundu Kansas State 2017

    Buddy Hield Oklahoma 2016

    Abdel Nader Iowa State 2016

    Isaiah Taylor Texas 2016

    Georges Niang Iowa State 2016

    Taurean Prince Baylor 2016

    Bryce Dejean-Jones Iowa State 2015

    Royce O’Neale Baylor 2015

    Myles Turner Texas 2015

    Cory Jefferson Baylor 2014

    Markel Brown Oklahoma State 2014

    Marcus Smart Oklahoma State 2014

    Rodney McGruder Kansas State 2013

    Chris Babb Iowa State 2013

    Pierre Jackson Baylor 2013

    Phil Pressey Missouri 2013

    Andre Roberson Colorado 2013

    Perry Jones Baylor 2012

    Quincy Miller Baylor 2012

    Khris Middleton Texas A&M 2012

    Quincy Acy Baylor 2012

    Kim English Missouri 2012

    Royce White Iowa State 2012

    Alec Burks Colorado 2011

    Cory Joseph Texas 2011

    Tristan Thompson Texas 2011

    Jordan Hamilton Texas 2011

    Cory Higgins Colorado 2011

    Diante Garrett Iowa State 2011

    Jacob Pullen Kansas State 2011

    Dexter Pittman Texas 2010

    Avery Bradley Texas 2010

    Craig Brackins Iowa State 2010

    Damion James Texas 2010

    Donald Sloan Texas A&M 2010

    James Anderson Okla State 2010

    Willie Warren Oklahoma 2010

    Ekpe Udoh Baylor 2010

    Terrel Harris Oklahoma State 2009

    DeMarre Carroll Missouri 2009

    Taylor Griffin Oklahoma 2009

    Blake Griffin Oklahoma 2009

    Henry Walker Kansas State 2008

    Mike Taylor Iowa State 2008

    D.J. Augustin Texas 2008

    DeAndre Jordan Texas A&M 2008

    Michael Beasley Kansas State 2008

    Cartier Martin Kansas State 2007

    Kevin Durant Texas 2007

    Acie Law Texas A&M 2007

    JamesOn Curry OklaState 2007

    P.J. Tucker Texas 2006

    Daniel Gibson Texas 2006

    Thomas Gardner Missouri 2006

    Will Blalock Iowa State 2006

    Chris Copeland Colorado 2006

    LaMarcus Aldridge Texas 2006

    Linas Kleiza Missouri 2005

    Ivan McFarlin Oklahoma State 2005

    John Lucas Oklahoma State 2005

    Stephen Graham Okla State 2005

    Joey Graham Okla State 2005

    Transfers out during Streak:

    Sheldon Mac 2016

    Joshiah Grey 2016

    Justin Hamilton 2012

    Xavier Silas 2011

    Wesley Johnson 2010

    And that doesn’t even project to this year.

    Source: https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Big-12-Conference/3/nba-players

    I have taken out KU players. That is impressive, too.



  • @mayjay I don’t think we actually ever played against Blake Griffith, though. I think he was injured, and was a DNP.



  • @KUSTEVE Changed it to “compete against.” The rest of the conference had to play him, and that is the point. He played 5 mins against us his first year before his injury, and sat out his game as a soph as a precaution (concussion, I think). Those years are when we only played Tex, OSt, A&M, Baylor, TTech, and Okla ( B12 south) once each year. Fortunately when you see how stacked Tex and O State were.



  • @mayjay True, true.



  • 0_1519578091864_DW11XLgVQAAgXYY.jpg



  • Early in the season, i said that it would be an overachievement ( a miracle really) if we won the league again. I thought that would be the ceiling and any wins in the tourney would be cherry on top.

    Now at this point, I still think that this team can lose in the first round on a bad day or get to the final four. There is still no margin of error for this team. It could happen that they ride a hot streak all the way to the end, but it can also end very quickly for us.

    I am in the camp that would trade in all the league titles for a NC in 2011 and either of 2016/2017 (Frank’s teams). However, for this year only I was rooting more for a B12 title than anything else because I thought that was a more achievable target instead of a NC.
    Here’s hoping, I’m proven wrong and Devonte pulls a Kemba Walker and takes us all the way!

    Rock Chalk!!



  • NEVER FORGET



  • @KUSTEVE Blake Griffin played against KU as a Freshman. He hurt his knee in the first 5 minutes. Sophomore year he missed the game with a concussion.



  • 14 Straight will be an excellent recruiting point!



  • @KansasComet

    The Big East does have round robin as well. That league is seeing a shift in competition with 7 of its 10 this year being a tough out. The RR is a gauntlet that’s for sure



  • @BShark Who was that clown?



  • KansasComet said:

    14 Straight will be an excellent recruiting point!

    so why does duke keep on getting all the top recruits?



  • KUSTEVE said:

    @BShark Who was that clown?

    Former sports reporter for one of the KC stations. Huge MUtard.



  • elpoyo said:

    KansasComet said:

    14 Straight will be an excellent recruiting point!

    so why does duke keep on getting all the top recruits?

    Crook K keeps on coaching the USA Men’s National Team in the summers. Nice tool for recruiting, yes?



  • Gunman said:

    elpoyo said:

    KansasComet said:

    14 Straight will be an excellent recruiting point!

    so why does duke keep on getting all the top recruits?

    Crook K keeps on coaching the USA Men’s National Team in the summers. Nice tool for recruiting, yes?

    yes…i’m sure that’s the only reason why. i’m sure the # of rings on his finger have nothing to do with it



  • @elpoyo When Coach K began coaching NBA Players in the Olympics.



  • @mayjay It’s not a league without talent, but does the talent compare with the other power conferences (i.e., ACC, SEC, P12 and B10)??? Look again at that list. How many are NBA all-star caliber? It’s been almost a decade since someone other than KU (and even KU hasn’t produced many all-stars (Embiid the only one during Self-era?)) from the conference made an all-star team. Actually, how many on that list from the past half dozen years are even starting for an NBA team? Getting any real playing time? The fact is that when measured by NBA-caliber talent, the B12 simply doesn’t come close to matching up to some other conferences. Which, IMO, is the primary reason for KU’s dominance and the flame-outs in the NCAA tournament. For the most part, the B12 has really good coaches, which makes for a lot of competitive games in the conference and overachieving in the regular season/non-conference schedule, but in the tournament, it is the more talented (not necessarily most) teams that tend to win titles (UConn being a notable example, although even there, one of the UConn title teams was carried by a future NBA all-star).



  • This from “Basketball Recruiting”

    0_1519685621713_brecruit.JPG



  • It is the 4/5 year guys that allow us to define the Streak in the spans of 4 “generations” of players:

    Kleinmann overlapped Releford who overlapped Lucas/TSelf who overlapped…Lightfoot who, when he gets his 4th or 5th ring, will overlap someone we have never heard of.


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