Because Your Opinion Matters
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I think winning the conference is pretty important this year because of the reason the @JayHawkFanToo mentioned. It’s been nice to have that to fall back on when we have faulted early in the tournament but the other side of the coin is that if you make the final four people won’t be talking about how didn’t win the conference. At this point I think we have a much better chance to win the conference even tho we are a game behind currently. If we can win the conference and make the sweet 16 I’ll be happy with team we have.
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At this time and barring a big change in the team’s performance, the Sweet 16 would appear to be the ceiling. If they start hitting on all cylinders then a Final Four could happen but the margin of error for this team is razor thin.
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This team isn’t making the final 4. I want the streak to continue so when Self wins another title he will have multiple and the longest streak over UCLA.
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How about starting a new streak?
14 consecutive trips to the Final Four
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Final Four. Because if you don’t go there, you can’t win the real championship. Big banners beat small banners every day
But this is the one year I can actually comprehend wanting a conference title over a FF, given it would break a record. It would be incredible for this team. Self already has the most in a row by any coach.
And yes, we CAN make the FF. Who can’t we beat?
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HighEliteMajor said:
And yes, we CAN make the FF. Who can’t we beat?
They are currently getting beat by themselves, so I’d say the University of Kansas can beat the University of Kansas. Outside of that, we can hang with anyone.
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Easy answer: #14 takes the record OUTRIGHT, this is different than NC. UCLAs record stood for 40yrs!! One of a kind record. Shows sustained success. Apples to oranges when talking about a NC.
As @HighEliteMajor said about small banners…but getting 14 would actually be its own pinnacle achievement. Does it morph into a big banner in its own right?
The easy part of this answer is that #14 is right in front of us. It comes first. They are not technically mutually exclusive. After the conf race is over, it becomes Tourney time.
You actually get to choose both. But #14 really means something, different that all the others. And 14 would make all of the other 13’s teams all bound together as one big KU family. Whereas Mario’s and Danny’s NC teams are their own exclusive club. Past players are rooting hard for 14 as it makes their own conf championships suddenly matter alot. Everybody couldn’t have done it without everybody else!
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@Ralster Correct–NOT either/or! I think #14 is more important to think about right now because if we pull that off, we are back on the right path. If we don’t, the mental determination to pull harder for a NC will be severely undermined.
Worry about our goals in order, and meet the challenges as they come. Give lesser attention to hard goals up front than dream goals later, and you are essentially saying the imminent goal isn’t worthy of your best try because you are focused on something later. That is the way to nightmare endings, not dreams.
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This team doesn’t have the firepower to win a national championship, so winning #14 is probably going to be the highlight of the season. That’s not writing off the season. As I said in a different thread, this team is flawed, but it can still accomplish something really special despite those flaws simply because it can win historic #14. Of course, that’s going to require a win in Lubbock from all appearances, so buckle up guys. It’s going to get crazy.
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I’ve been for extending the streak above anything else for years. And with every year it grows even more important.
Of course, I’d like to win another NC, too.
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Don’t forget how flawed our 2012 was… and they were one unibrow away from winning another NC.
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You have a tough job on your hands. I’m not talking about your swim upstream, telling others what they don’t want to hear because they don’t believe it supports our team…
Your comment is the seed for growing a chip. This has been my subject more than any other in here (throughout the years). I’ve always felt like few fans understand this.
Chips usually need to happen through an organic process. A “synthetic” development (like a sudden push by some going negative when it is uncalled for) will usually backfire and kill what little motivation is there. But if it happens over time where players learn a healthy knowledge of feeling support from the fan base while questioning their commitment to reach the top can move teams that extra bit to actually reach it.
Notice the comments from teams right after they win the National Championship, “no one believed in us!”
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I don’t know , I mean it’s great to have the streak of conference championships - - - and going for number 14 - - -BUT isn’t a final four appearance better? – I mean what would mean more to the team? - - Another conference championship or a final four?
What is a teams goal in the beginning of the year? Another conference championship OR a trip to the final four? Isn’t it the goal of every team to make the final four and then the opportunity for a National title? - - To me - I think I would rather have a final four. ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I’d rather go to the Final four. We already have the record, albeit shared, and the FF is the pinnacle of the sport. I do understand the impetus to get the record solo, but, for me, I love the prestige of FF’s.
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The 2011-2012 team was flawed, but the difference was trajectory. That team bottomed out in mid-December in a loss to Davidson. After that loss, KU started putting things together.
They weren’t vulnerable at home.
The defense was tough with Jeff Withey anchoring the middle.
This team was deeper than the current group, with Withey, Robinson, Releford, Johnson and Taylor starting, backed up by Tharpe, Teahan and Young. That’s a lot closer to Self’s preferred rotation than what this year’s group has.
2012 corrected their flaws. This team is finding new flaws seemingly each week.
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A little off topic, but my favorite memory of the semifinals in 2012 was Tyshawn throwing a horribly errant pass after making a steal that went almost directly to Bill Self, probably to one of his assistants. Turnover Tyshawn struck one more time!
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justanotherfan said:
2012 corrected their flaws. This team is finding new flaws seemingly each week.
That right there… says it all.
According to the paperwork, our current team is more talented. The reason you can question that is because the way our 2012 team stepped up. That team didn’t have a single McDs AA on it!
Our current situation is one of finding excuses for not “bringing it” to games. I can’t handle that. Period.
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Lack of depth is the main issue. In the past, Coach Self could sit a starter and play a backup until the starter saw the light; can’t quite do that now. Remember Coach Self Said when announcing that Lightfoot would start that KU did not have enough depth to replace all the started that he would have liked to replace.
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This team has all the tools to win it all this year. It has just as much a chance as any other team out there. If Coach Self can work his magic and everyone buys in then its possible. He still has a month to bench guys for attitude, poor play, or whatever he needs to do to motivate our guys to work together! I still believe!
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If this team needs a stop, what do they do?
If this team needs a basket, who do they go to?
That 2012 team could answer the question easily. Withey could help get them a stop. Robinson would get them a bucket.
The 2008 squad, the answer on defense was Rush. On offense, it was Arthur.
You have to be able to answer those questions. This team hasn’t found those answers. I’m not sure this team has those answers. Maybe the answer on offense is Devonte, but defensively, I don’t know. Azubuike fouls too much. Vick is inconsistent. Devonte already has too much on his plate. Svi and Newman are solid defenders, but I don’t think anyone would call either guy a stopper.
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A rudderless ship?
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Ralster said:
Easy answer: #14 takes the record OUTRIGHT, this is different than NC. UCLAs record stood for 40yrs!! One of a kind record. Shows sustained success. Apples to oranges when talking about a NC.
As @HighEliteMajor said about small banners…but getting 14 would actually be its own pinnacle achievement. Does it morph into a big banner in its own right?
The easy part of this answer is that #14 is right in front of us. It comes first. They are not technically mutually exclusive. After the conf race is over, it becomes Tourney time.
You actually get to choose both. But #14 really means something, different that all the others. And 14 would make all of the other 13’s teams all bound together as one big KU family. Whereas Mario’s and Danny’s NC teams are their own exclusive club. Past players are rooting hard for 14 as it makes their own conf championships suddenly matter alot. Everybody couldn’t have done it without everybody else!
Nobody said you could choose both. If that was an option only a classless Baylor Bear or Fran wouldn’t pick both.
It looks like the board is slightly leaning toward championship #14. Wonder how the vote would be the first week in March?
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@justanotherfan @HighEliteMajor
The biggest difference between this team and 2012 is thst virtually everybody who played in 2012 had been on the team played together for two or more years. Tyshawn and Conner (RS/5th yr) were seniors, and Withey (RS/3rd yr), TRob, EJ, and Travis (RS/4th yr) were all juniors. So the core 6 players were all upperclassmen with 22 years in the program. [Our only freshman was Tharpe, who did not have to shoulder any responsibility except an occasional few minutes to give someone a rest. Our subs were Wesley (RS/4th yr) and Young (jr, transfer).]
Contrast that to this year. Our top 7 players have 18 total years in the program. Only DG, Svi, and Vick have any significant time playing together, and Vick’s and Lightfoot’s freshman minutes barely count, and Doke missed more than half of his.
The 2012 team was a collection of pieces that had learned over several years how to mesh, with significant leadership up front and in the backcourt. The team bonded in circumstances that hopefully this team doesn’t have to when TRob’s grandfather and mother died in a two week period. It was really a unique group that accomplished more than expected (as judged by so-called talent evaluation as HS players) because of that chemistry in how they complemented each other.
The current team is a mismatched group that is still struggling to mesh gears. A senior who has had to change from wingman to leader, another senior who is a marksman trying to learn how to drive, a junior who would love to just swing outside but whose role has to change every time the big men (or single man mostly) can’t take care of the frontcourt resonsibilities, another wing who is trying to relearn being an alpha after trying too hard initially to defer to his elders, etc etc etc.
I think our biggest problem, and it surprises me to realize this, is that Self has tried way too hard to try to achieve team meshing by desperately trying to force it. I think he should have made his PT decisions slowly, and let the team lose as it finds its identity and the players learn how to help each other find their proper roles. Every team needs to go through growing pains as a group, and this team has had its adjustment periods disrupted. The BP situation was a kick in the teeth for over half the season in team preparation, which was a big wrench tossed into the already not-meshing gears.
But if Self had been patient we would have been hearing all that criticism about how it is unacceptable for KU to lose, and why doesn’t Self do something?
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@mayjay I think the BP situation impacted the team far more than most of us speculated. The continual, “wait until Billy is eligible” is a frustrating dynamic, but if it is built up as him being something that makes the team complete, I can see why perhaps the psyche of the team might take a hit.
I’ve always been one to suggest we play for March. That can mean a lot of things, including winning for a better seed, as I’ve been told by a few folks.
Make no mistake, though, this is Self’s baby. As all teams have been his baby. I guess this season I do believe that he is fighting more than just the normal issues he’s faced with teams on the court. A rebellion? No. But perhaps an undercurrent of resistance. An interesting drama as we move forward. Something is going on.
KU 78 ISU 73
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HawkChamp said:
HighEliteMajor said:
And yes, we CAN make the FF. Who can’t we beat?
They are currently getting beat by themselves, so I’d say the University of Kansas can beat the University of Kansas. Outside of that, we can hang with anyone.
PHOF
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Self has taught me to think both!
So: either/or is a false dichotomy.
This team is being coached to reach its maximum potential to give it the best chance of winning both.
It can’t win either.
It has to win both.
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Our best defensive stopper is Lightfoot… and he continues to improve his shot blocking capability!
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mayjay said:
@justanotherfan @HighEliteMajor
The biggest difference between this team and 2012 is thst virtually everybody who played in 2012 had been on the team played together for two or more years. Tyshawn and Conner (RS/5th yr) were seniors, and Withey (RS/3rd yr), TRob, EJ, and Travis (RS/4th yr) were all juniors. So the core 6 players were all upperclassmen with 22 years in the program.
Great comment!
Scares me for next year with all that freshman talent coming and wanting to play.
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@drgnslayr Freshman status of even high talent is always probably a good reason to keep our optimism at reasonable levels. But with the other major newbies to the rotation (Lawsons) expected to be major contributors, hopefully their experience at Memph and their RS practice status will help them avoid too much adjustment disorder (Moore, too). Malik is still adjusting, though.
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@Buster-1926
Thanks for posting that. I didn’t know Mitch was involved with volleyball.
I’m thinking we need to focus a little recruiting on HS volleyball players!
