Are we done recruiting?
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@jayballer54 It’s behind the paywall so I gotta respect that. Suffice to say it supports other info out there about KU being well positioned with a remaining target. Very optimistic post regarding KU’s last two top targets in general.
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I still think we could return Vick, Doke, and Newman. Vick is not projected to be a 1st rounder as of today on www.nbadraft.net/2018mock_draft. I think the support network surrounding him will tell him to stay and try to improve his draft stock. If I were Coach Self I would remind Vicks inner circle that Selden was a top 25 recruit that went undrafted in 2016. IMO he will not hire an agent but will get an invite to the draft. Will he stay or will he go? Only time will tell.
Doke has no outside game to speak of and needs to stay and polish his outside game if he wants to stick in the NBA. Jahlil Okafor is a perfact example of what Doke might look like if he left early for the NBA except he would not have a guaranteed contract or 6 mil a year. Without being projected as a lotto pick his NBA future is sketchy at best unless he returns and polishes his game.
Newman? I cant remember a 3rd year sophomore (5th in scoring) that went pro/got drafted after averaging 10ppg and had sub .500 fg average and a .346 3pt average. Even if he got a combine invite I can not see anyone really giving him a guarantee. He has to come back to improve his stock.
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If only Graham and Svi leave as scheduled, won’t KU be short 1 scholarship even if no one else signs up?
At this time, I don’t believe Malik will make it to the NBA unless there is huge improvement; most likely he will end up overseas and he can probably do that instead of coming back, which would free up one more scholarship.
The big unknown at this time is Preston, does he stay or does he go? do you rather have Preston back for one year with one year already in the program (like McLemore) or do you rather have Langford or Zion instead?
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@JayHawkFanToo Bird in the hand is better 75% of the time.
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Preston’s mom has made some statements lately about over seas being an option if he isn’t cleared. I think his support group is similar to Alexanders group. Money over logic to be exact.
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If I remember correctly, today was the first day of classes. I wonder if Billy is attending classes.
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@JayHawkFanToo I’m sure he is. Otherwise he wouldn’t have traveled to Morgantown.
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@Statmachine Doke:
Okafor:
Sure, Okafor got his NBA payday leaving early, and I guess that’s the entirety of your point (well taken), but I hope Doke has more success than Okafor. Even if he were to develop an outside shot it’s hard talking about the two in the same conversation. Okafor is much more lumbering and weaker in the paint. I’d argue he has no inside game
Not exactly sure what the sixers saw in him.
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A potential 4 year burger boy. I’ll take it!
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Statmachine said:
I still think we could return Vick, Doke, and Newman. Vick is not projected to be a 1st rounder as of today on www.nbadraft.net/2018mock_draft. I think the support network surrounding him will tell him to stay and try to improve his draft stock. If I were Coach Self I would remind Vicks inner circle that Selden was a top 25 recruit that went undrafted in 2016. IMO he will not hire an agent but will get an invite to the draft. Will he stay or will he go? Only time will tell.
Doke has no outside game to speak of and needs to stay and polish his outside game if he wants to stick in the NBA. Jahlil Okafor is a perfact example of what Doke might look like if he left early for the NBA except he would not have a guaranteed contract or 6 mil a year. Without being projected as a lotto pick his NBA future is sketchy at best unless he returns and polishes his game.
Newman? I cant remember a 3rd year sophomore (5th in scoring) that went pro/got drafted after averaging 10ppg and had sub .500 fg average and a .346 3pt average. Even if he got a combine invite I can not see anyone really giving him a guarantee. He has to come back to improve his stock.
Is Newman going to come back to be a back-up? I think he goes pro somewhere, anywhere. Europe even.
Also it was time for Selden to go, for a lot of reasons. Also say what you will he is hanging around the league. I’d just tell Vick, if you want to come back we’d love to have you but if you want to go start making money that’s fine too. Vick’s mom is pretty great, I’ll miss her too if he goes pro.
Okafor was a much more skilled offensive player than Doke even. I think Doke should stay but of course I’m looking at this from the angle of a greedy KU fan that wants a better team.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
If only Graham and Svi leave as scheduled, won’t KU be short 1 scholarship even if no one else signs up?
At this time, I don’t believe Malik will make it to the NBA unless there is huge improvement; most likely he will end up overseas and he can probably do that instead of coming back, which would free up one more scholarship.
The big unknown at this time is Preston, does he stay or does he go? do you rather have Preston back for one year with one year already in the program (like McLemore) or do you rather have Langford or Zion instead?
Technically no. KU had an open scholarship this year which Silvio has now filled. If JUST Graham and Svi go, they are replaced by Dotson and Grimes. So in fact KU is actually oversigned at the moment. McCormack is replacing Preston though, who yes, will be gone no matter what. Too much stuff just doesn’t work if Preston is back plus like @Statmachine said his inner circle wants him in the league next year.
Zion isn’t coming to KU. That will be official soon.
Langford would be to replace Vick. The staff is recruiting like there are guard/wing openings which you always have to prepare for the worst case but still, they certainly aren’t even looking around at any post players at this point.
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I love Selden but the point was that he was projected to go in the 2nd round (went undrafted) and has had to fight for a roster spot every year since leaving KU. Had he came back he COULD have avoided that?
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Statmachine said:
I love Selden but the point was that he was projected to go in the 2nd round (went undrafted) and has had to fight for a roster spot every year since leaving KU. Had he came back he COULD have avoided that?
Him leaving was a big part of landing Josh. The minutes worked out a lot better for everyone with him gone. Plus he kept getting nagging injuries at KU, he needed to get some NBA money while he still has something left in his knees. Another year of playing in college and who knows what happens, maybe he gets drafted, maybe he ends up in Europe instead if he didn’t improve enough. For every Buddy Hield and Draymond Green there are so many more guys that still don’t get drafted or stick in the league at all.
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I’d rather have Vick than not, same for Doke. Newman it’s been real but he can just go. KU would be absolutely fine with a guard rotation of Dotson/Grimes/Moore/Vick/Garrett/Cunliffe. Honestly one of them wouldn’t even play that is so many guards.
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@BShark I haven’t given up on Newman, not at all.Wish he would have been more consistent but blame injury issues, trying too much, great success this summer; all the above.
Rather have him take a while to find his mojo than have it early and lose it in late February or March.
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@BShark I’m torn on the Vick vs. Newman argument. Had you asked me 6 games ago, not even close.
Since Conference play started, Newman has been the better player. Period end of story. Better defender, better scorer, just plain better. At the very least, you can say they have been even on the advanced metrics. Malik has been slightly better defensively, Vick has been more efficient offensively. Typical stats side with Malik.
So now, I am at a point where I really like Newman’s upside better than I like Vick’s. At least I think… I think Newman has the ability to get in the lane. If he can learn to finish, he can be a 3 level scorer. Something I don’t think Vick is ever going to be capable of because he can’t drive the ball now. Or he refuses to do so.
If Newman can bump his 3pt % up to 40% and his 2pt% up to 50% we are looking at an All-American level player to put next to Grimes and Dotson. And neither of those are that much of a stretch IMO. That allows us to have 2 volume scorers next to Dotson, and 3 guys who can get in the lane AND handle the ball. That is an attractive lineup IMO. And, I still think there is time for Newman to live up to his hype. To me, he isn’t Selden. Wayne never looked fluid on the court. Newman has a silky smoothness to him. He has one of the ugliest shooting forms we have seen from a KU guard in a while, and yet, somehow it still looks smooth. Newman looks like he has the ability, he is just a few little tweaks away from being a stud. He is they type of guy that can transform into a completely new player in one offseason.
And, worse case, they both leave and we get Langford who I am super high on, and think might actually be the best option of the 3. But the bird in the hand argument is right 90% of the time…
With all of that being said, all 3 options are great options.
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I also think Newman will fit better in the Hi-Lo than Vick will next season. He will be able to use that ball screen on the wing better than Vick can because he is able to dribble and drive the ball better.
Of course, I have been wrong many a times before.
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Self recruited Vick out of high school. Then takes him as a transfer. Self wouldn’t do that for just anybody.
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Gunman said:
Self recruited Vick out of high school. Then takes him as a transfer. Self wouldn’t do that for just anybody.
Vick wasn’t a transfer. He was a late decommit from SMU when Brown got canned. Then Brown basically funneled him to KU. He committed to KU 2 weeks after decommiting.
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Aren’t “short 1 scholarship” and “oversigned” the same thing? I believe we are talking about the same thing. Even if KU does not sign anyone else it would be short one scholarship unless someone else leaves in addition to Graham and Svi, right? The question is who?
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Gunman said:
Self recruited Vick out of high school. Then takes him as a transfer. Self wouldn’t do that for just anybody.
Did you mean Newman?
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@BShark OOPS! We were talking about Newman and l typed in Vick. Can’t multitask like l used to…
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Aren’t “short 1 scholarship” and “oversigned” the same thing? I believe we are talking about the same thing. Even if KU does not sign anyone else it would be short one scholarship unless someone else leaves in addition to Graham and Svi, right? The question is who?
For some reason I read that as you thinking KU had an extra scholarship. Not sure how, whoops.
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@Gunman Ah yeah that makes more sense.
@Kcmatt7 I can see your points about Newman. I haven’t read or heard anything to make me think otherwise on him leaving no matter what though.
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@JayHawkFanToo You said “Preston” but … did you mean “DeSousa” ???
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If I recall correctly, his dad made it clear that next year Newman will be playing for money; of course he meant the NBA. When you have this frame of mind it is unlikely to change.
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@JayHawkFanToo Exactly.
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Red.Rooster said:
@JayHawkFanToo You said “Preston” but … did you mean “DeSousa” ???
Which post?
I don’t believe De Sousa would leave after this season; he will play at least one and possibly two more season at KU.
I am not sure if Preston is coming back after this season, regardless of whether he plays or not. Mama has already indicated that Billy could be making “millions” already so looks unlikely he would stay…but I could be wrong.
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@JayHawkFanToo De Sousa actually said he will be here next season and then “take it from there”.
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Newman and Billy both have an inner circle that wants to get them PAID asap. Which doesn’t bode well for returning.
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Agreed. I am really curious on how good Preston would have been but I also am OK if he does not play at all; the drama has been too much of a distraction and with De Sousa the team is(barring injury) in decent shape personnel-wise.
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@Kcmatt7 really appreciate your take. I’ve been infuriated with some of Newman’s decision making, but we keep winning and he keeps playing and I know there is some correlation there. Willing to keep an open mind.
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@JayHawkFanToo billy calls his mother, mom.
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@BShark If you don’t want to read everything, just read the last paragraph.
Their are a couple of things about Newman that bode well for him coming back though.
- I do not think Newman will get a combine invite this year.
- Newman does not have the option to transfer.
If he is so dead set on getting paid that he will go play in Europe next season, so be it. I just don’t think his family is dumb enough to go that route yet. That is not the best route to the NBA and they should be smart enough to see that.
Sure, $100k sounds nice right now. But KU has state of the art facilities he gets to practice at every day. The competition he goes against every day in practice is preparing him for the NBA more than it would in Europe.
If he leaves to play in Europe after this season, that is his family giving up on him ever playing in the NBA. But people have done dumber things. Even if his future is in Europe, the year he has had this season is not one even European teams would be overly impressed with. He wouldn’t be able to fetch the type of money he would be looking for.
But I digress. You are correct in your statement saying that the plan has always been for him to come to KU and play one year to improve his stock. I think part of his problem always has been the pressure to be an NBA pick now. And that pressure is hard enough to handle when it comes from the fans. But when the pressure comes from that inner circle, it makes it so much harder to live up to expectations. I’m hoping this season was a wake up call to his family. Too bad we won’t find out for another 4 months.
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The more important question is…is Newman NBA material now? Will one additional year at at KU make him NBA material?
Based on what I have seen to date my answer would be no and no but I would love to be wrong on this one.
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@JayHawkFanToo Could have said the same thing about Selden after his Sophomore season. Or even, Releford’s European career has been much better because he had such a good Senior season. Tyshawn and T-Rob both transformed their games over one offseason. Withey is someone I never thought I’d see in an NBA uniform as well.
I think there is enough evidence that Self will get him where he wants to go. To me, the question is if there is trust coming from Newman’s camp.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
The more important question is…is Newman NBA material now? Will one additional year at at KU make him NBA material?
Based on what I have seen to date my answer would be no and no but I would love to be wrong on this one.
To me, the only way Malik ever sniffs a NBA roster is as a PG. If he comes back (HUGE if), his best bet would be to ask Self to let him be more of a PG early in the year while Dotson gets his feet under him. He’s got the size and athletic ability to be a NBA PG, but really needs to work on his playmaking ability.
At this point, it’s much more likely both Malik and Billy leave than either stay. I think we end up with one scholarship open come spring. In which case, you may see this guy get an offer: https://247sports.com/Player/Ochai-Agbaji-46042163
I’d look for him to rise up the rankings this spring. Since summer, he’s grown over an inch too to nearly 6’6. He’s tearing it up in HS ball right now: averaging 26/9 on almost 60% shooting. Good FT shooter too at nearly 80%. Mid 30’s from 3 too. I don’t live around LFK anymore so I haven’t had the chance to see him, but Norm was over in KC to see him a week or so ago.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BShark If you don’t want to read everything, just read the last paragraph.
Their are a couple of things about Newman that bode well for him coming back though.
- I do not think Newman will get a combine invite this year.
- Newman does not have the option to transfer.
If he is so dead set on getting paid that he will go play in Europe next season, so be it. I just don’t think his family is dumb enough to go that route yet. That is not the best route to the NBA and they should be smart enough to see that.
Sure, $100k sounds nice right now. But KU has state of the art facilities he gets to practice at every day. The competition he goes against every day in practice is preparing him for the NBA more than it would in Europe.
If he leaves to play in Europe after this season, that is his family giving up on him ever playing in the NBA. But people have done dumber things. Even if his future is in Europe, the year he has had this season is not one even European teams would be overly impressed with. He wouldn’t be able to fetch the type of money he would be looking for.
But I digress. You are correct in your statement saying that the plan has always been for him to come to KU and play one year to improve his stock. I think part of his problem always has been the pressure to be an NBA pick now. And that pressure is hard enough to handle when it comes from the fans. But when the pressure comes from that inner circle, it makes it so much harder to live up to expectations. I’m hoping this season was a wake up call to his family. Too bad we won’t find out for another 4 months.
Eh, I will always read the entire post. Better to do that than to reply poorly because I missed something.
I agree with all these thoughts on paper but will he actually stay who knows. Also is there room for him to stay? Maybe not.
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Good points. This is the way Mario ended up in the NBA where he had to learn to be a PG; however, he had a much, much better resume and stats than Newman playing SG.
