Andrew White to visit Notre Dame
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I hope AW3 finally gets the PT he so deserves!
Gooooo, AW3!
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Are you possibly committing a fallacy?
"Argument from authority (also known as appeal to authority) is a fallacy of defective induction, where it is argued that a statement is correct because the statement is made by a person or source that is commonly regarded as authoritative. The most general structure of this argument is:
This is a fallacy because the truth or falsity of a claim is not related to the authority of the claimant, and because the premises can be true, and the conclusion false (an authoritative claim can turn out to be false). It is also known as argumentum ad verecundiam (Latin: argument to respect) or ipse dixit (Latin: he himself said it)." http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Appeal_to_authority.html
Or might you possibly be exercising reasonable informal logic, since you appear not to be an expert, and appear to imply Jason King is an expert on who calls other schools about players transferring?
“On the other hand, arguments from authority are an important part of informal logic. Since we cannot have expert knowledge of many subjects, we often rely on the judgments of those who do. There is no fallacy involved in simply arguing that the assertion made by an authority is true. The fallacy only arises when it is claimed or implied that the authority is infallible in principle and can hence be exempted from criticism.” http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Appeal_to_authority.html
It is somewhat difficult for me to tell.
But to be a mensch, I want to GIVE you the benefit of the doubt and say you are taking a stab at informal logic. In other words, I am playing take what you give me nicely.
Can you say with absolute certainty that you know that Jason King knows every situation regarding every transfer past and present?
Can you, an apparent non-expert, guaranty with certainty that Jason King is an expert qualified and able to make accurately such an assertion about the KU program?
Can you, an apparent non expert, be absolutely certain what was true about KU approaching schools about transfers at the time King’s book was written, would remain 100 percent accurate in describing how KU has contacted schools regarding transfers, since the book’s publication?
Did Jason King explicitly state with absolute certainty that the KU AD would never under any circumstances contact another school about a KU player that is transferring?
Just looking for a little clarification, so I can know whether to rely on what you write about about in this case.
But wouldn’t it be a heart warming parochial story, if AD Zenger, or even HFC Weiss, liked AWIII and did put in a call to some friends up at ND to get him a look?
Rock Chalk!
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In your effort to prove, once again, that you know more than everybody else, you have managed to shoot yourself in the foot and blow a considerable amount of hot air in the process.
Fist, if you read my post you will see that I wrote “…essentially all the contacts are made head coach to head coach…” that while it implies that the contact is indeed as I indicated, it does not absolutely rule out other people getting involved; in fact, I also wrote “If a call was made it was likely done by Coach Self or one of his top assistants.” Right?
Second, if you would have followed my advice and actually read “Beyond the Phog” you would know that Jason King does no make any arguments or draw/reach any conclusions. The entire book is a collection of 40 interviews with players and coaches that were part of the KU program since 2000, and all the information comes directly form the players and coaches mouths including Coaches Williams and Self.
Last, I did not indicate or imply that either Jason King or I were experts since neither offered a conclusion; again, that was an assumption on your part. Jason King simply reported what the players and coaches said in the interviews and I simply passed the information along. Once again, you should quit making assumptions.
Basketball personnel issues are dealt by basketball program personnel. AD Zenger has his hands full doing more important thing like raising funds to upgrade Memorial Stadium and I seriously doubt one, that he would have time for that, and two, that Coach Self would “pass that the buck” to him. Wouldn’t you agree?
So, once again you attributed to me facts that I did not present or imply but fit neatly your pompous diatribe. Oscar Wilde famously said …when you ASSume you make an…well, you know the rest…
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You’re both incorrect. It was Dayne Crist and Charlie Wise on a conference call to Mike Brey. Sheahon is busy trying to figure out ways to black out all KU games to every household in America. Pure facts.
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I just looked at both of my feet and I can’t find a hole in either one!
Seriously, I asked for clarification about the logical validity of your appeal to the authority of Jason King. It did not appear quite as sound to me, as it appeared to seem to you. I find no gratuitous insertion of words in your oral cavity.
Has the use of logic to analyze discourse truly become reduced in your mind to a superfluous attempt to prove one’s intelligence? I frankly don’t follow your logic that one would post on a basketball board to prove one’s intelligence. Personally, I would get another degree in something, or go take an IQ test, rather than post on a basketball board. Frankly I come here to learn. I wish you taught me something. If you were to teach me something I did not know, you would hear nothing but gratitude from me.
You appear partial to use rather aggressive and/or vulgar tone in your backfill of some of my posts. It makes you less persuasive to me. Don’t you want me to believe you, see your points, and agree with you? Wasn’t the point of some your responses to persuade me of my wrongfulness? Why undermine your intent this way?
But the best way to build lasting love between us is to teach me something I don’t know about the game. The game is the thing. I am the humblest of creatures. I love basketball, as much as certain persons reputedly love power and money and being right. You really value being right, don’t you? Your love of being right is probably akin in intensity to my love of basketball.
Teach me about the game.
Dont get so defensive, if I disagree, or question your logic. I am just trying to learn. Already known is not exciting.
Rock Chalk!
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Note: backfill here.
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I thought I started this thread in "warm and fuzzy"mode.
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Me too.
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Be of good cheer.
My alias has no wish to put words in your alias’ mouth.
And if my alias did, I believe the words would not be either what your alias sometimes claims my alias puts in your alias’ mouth, or many of the other things your alias writes in your responses to my alias’ posts.
Again, be of good cheer.
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@jaybate
I think it’s about time you come out of the closet and reveal your true identity!
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I would think that Wake Forest would be the best fit for him, since I’m assuming Danny Manning runs a lot of stuff similar to Coach Self, and AWIII would be ahead of the curve compared most of the incumbent players.
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I am a person and “a person is a person no matter how small.”
Do you think Oubre, or Svi, will shoot 40% from trey this season?
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I have a lot of respect for Notre Dame academics and their networks of graduates in the various professions.
From a purely basketball sense, I would love for AWIII to play for Danny.
But from a career perspective, I think going to a school with a large and influential graduate network might have greater pay off for him over his life. I have to plead some ignorance about the graduate network of Wake Forest. I suspect it might be very helpful, if AWIII wanted to spend his life in the Carolinas, but perhaps not so much so elsewhere.
I often wonder why more of the players that are likely NOT to make it to the pros, or only for short times, do not consider playing for schools with awesome graduate networks. Why a guy goes to most any D1 major instead of an Ivy League school, if he could handle the academics escapes me. And the IVY league schools are hopelessly competitive to matriculate once one is admitted. And if the IVY schools will admit you because you can play some ball, then one ought to take the incredible life opportunity that they predispose one to. Alas, it seems many players never consider it.
I hope someone that has some first hand knowledge of D1 school choice will weigh in on this issue that I know nothing of. Usually, there is a sound reason, when kids are not doing something that seems logical.
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@jaybate 1.0
You cannot answer the question of who will shoot well from trey without first answering the question of what type of shots will they be taking from trey.
For an explanation, we have to turn to the NBA because the stats are better and much more consistent than college, where the vast level of skill can skew stats in strange ways.
In the NBA 84% of made 3 point attempts are assisted. Corner threes in the NBA are assisted 96% of the time. This means that guys that are shooting a high percentage on threes are most likely the benefactors of either a drive and kick, a pass out of a post double team, or a swing pass after a defense has collapsed. That’s what keeps those percentages high - getting an open look with your feet set and the ball coming to you in the shooting pocket.
So the question of whether Oubre, or Svi, or Greene or Frankamp will shoot >40% from three this year really depends on how much attention Alexander, Ellis and Mickelson draw in the post, and how well Graham, Selden and Mason break down the defense off the dribble. If Oubre is taking a lot of pull up 3s off the dribble, his percentage will struggle to creep past 35%. On the other hand, if he’s catching the ball in the sweet spot with his defender trying to recover to him, I think he could shoot upwards of 42%. The thing is, he can’t do that on his own - that will require good, crisp kickouts on postups or penetration and quick swings when the defense is scrambling. Same goes for the rest of the perimeter group. If the D gets sucked in, the 3 point percentage will sky rocket. If the D stays set, it will plummet.
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@jaybate 1.0 About 20 years ago I worked with a Cornell grad who played football for them with an Academic scholarship. He told me Cornell and other Ivy League schools did not offer athletic scholarships-only academic. AND, he was flat out against them starting to give out athletic scholarships. So, I don’t know what the situation is today, but it makes sense that the Ivy League wouldn’t be very competitive in Div 1 Football and Basketball without athletic scholarships.
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@jaybate 1.0
Seriously, I asked for clarification about the logical validity of your appeal to the authority of Jason King.
I provided you the information but it does not fit your own logic so you immediately rule it as invalid. You indicated in your previous post that Jason King and I were passing ourselves as experts, when in reality neither of us did. King simply compiled a number of interviews with current and former KU players and coaches. Neither he nor I drew any conclusions or inferences; he simply presented the interviews and reported the words as spoken by the players and coaches and I simply passed the information along. Nothing more, nothing less.
Has the use of logic to analyze discourse truly become reduced in your mind to a superfluous attempt to prove one’s intelligence? I frankly don’t follow your logic that one would post on a basketball board to prove one’s intelligence. Personally, I would get another degree in something, or go take an IQ test, rather than post on a basketball board. Frankly I come here to learn. I wish you taught me something. If you were to teach me something I did not know, you would hear nothing but gratitude from me.
Can you be any more arrogant or patronizing?
You appear partial to use rather aggressive and/or vulgar tone in your backfill of some of my posts.
But the best way to build lasting love between us is to teach me something I don’t know about the game.
You don’t want to learn, you just want to lecture.
I am the humblest of creatures.
Really, and I mean REALLY???
Jaybate, you obviously smart have writing skill and a penchants for flights of fancy, but this is a sports forum. We are not here to show how smart we are or many paragraphs we can write about the simplest of things, we are here to talk about KU sports and related subjects…that’s it. Write like you would talk to a friend at a sports bar after a few beers and not like you are presenting a paper to the Mensa society. you remind me of Sheldon, one of the character in the Big Bang TV show:
Mary: I have been telling you since you were four years old, it’s okay to be smarter than everybody else, but you can’t go around pointing it out.
Sheldon: Why?
Mary: Because people don’t like it!
Like I said, save the grandiose prose for other forums and keep it simple in this one. if you need help, you can always go to this site…
RCJH
PS. I am done with this topic.
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I fully agree on the cornet three in the NBA. Not only is the result of what yous aptly described, but the shot itself is almost two feet closer than a thee taken from the top of the key and thus the higher percentage of completion.
One of my pet peeves was hearing Marv Albert refer to every corner three (during the playoffs) as shot from “downtown.” The “downtown” term was originally coined to indicate a very long three…
Calling the shortest three “from downtown” seems kind of silly.
Second pet peeve, use of the words “pogo stick” during the NBA draft; how many time can they use the same term before it becomes annoying?
Any other pet peeves? We could start new thread with just pet peeves.
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I thought it was a valiant effort also.
So why am I beginning to feel like an old married man listening to the constant pissing & moaning of a couple of old nags? Hello…maybe it’s what I’m reading. Someone wise once said “you are what you eat,” that’s probably why.
And the book that seems to get referenced daily is by no means new. It hasn’t been around as long, but has been around almost as much as krap in the pasture.
So I think the kids both need a little time chillin’ out to relax, go shoot some M-80’s & have a hoot for a couple of days on me. This krap will all come out in the wash with a little castile.
Have a safe & happy Independence Day.
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Ivy league school do not offer athletic or, amazingly enough, academic scholarships (yes, I was surprised too); they do provide need-based financial assistance, which can be considerable and in many cases, students pay less out-of-pocket to attend an Ivy League school than they would a public institution. For example 52% of student attending Columbia, the fourth most expensive school ($61k per year) receive 100% financial aid, There is really no financial benefit to playing sports in Ivy Leagues schools since the financial aid is based on need and not on playing a sport.On the other hand, the one advantage for student athletes is that if they quit the team, they do not lose any of the financial aid
While there are no academic scholarships, academics determine whether you are accepted or not. My grandson is hoping to attend an Ivy League school so we have been doing some research.
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Regarding trey shooting, found an interesting Bill Self quote from a website that had 275 Bill Self quotes: * “…If Brandon is shooting 60% from trey and only takes 3 shots, he needs to be shooting more. He should be taking 8 3att per game and shooting 40%…”* This is very similar to what he has said about BMac and Wiggins “shooting more” (because of their shooting%). It is Self’s little twist on ‘inside-out’ basketball–he definitely does give trusted, designated shooters the “green light”. We know basically every guard he’s had has been given the green light, if its an open-look, in the rhythm of the offense.
Now add the concept of a sharp floor-general, an aggressive PG, who can shoot it (combo guard), or can feed post, or can penetrate at will, and either dish to a big, or alley oop assist…or kick out for an open-look-3. Such an aggressive guard(s) can make the whole team more dangerous, as there’s little time for the D to react, and the PG is good at employing all of his teammates/offensive options. This is where Naa broke down…he was a decent shooter, but was very inconsistent in the decision-making dept…which actually made the team less-dangerous, as now that domino effect of uncertainty made guys pause in their breaks and positioning…The offense lost its ‘edge’ thus. And none of the other guards had the reps or chemistry to run this type of show (last season). That will definitely improve this season.
Should be fun ball again.
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@JayHawkFanToo Thanks for clarifying. My colleague might have said “aid” and I didn’t catch the difference between “aid” and academic scholarship. Besides that it was decades ago and my memory isn’t that good
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@JayHawkFanToo Do you care to share what GPA/ACT/SAT score puts a kid in the running to get accepted?
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@JayHawkFanToo The only reason I can figure they make a cut-off of the arc down near the base line is to make competing for that sweet spot another dimension of the game. In any event it is NOT “downtown”. If and when MARV yells that-they’d better be 4 foot plus away from the line and in the case of the side would put them OB. Whoever is calling the game with him needs to set him straight.
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@jaybate 1.0 Another wise person gave me some very sound advice on marriage early on in life. He only asked one simple question.
He said, “Ask yourself this: What do you want… do you want to be happy or do you want to be right?”
That’s really all it took.
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I was very surprised when i saw the information myself. In relation to admission criteria, I believe they look at the entire package, including extracurricular activities back to Junior High, which is where my grandson is, and he is already building his “resume.”
He has 4.0+ GPA, he is in honor Math, English and Science and next year (his last in Junior High) he will be taking a couple of HS classes. He currently attends Pioneer Trail Junior High in Olathe which last year was selected as the second best Junior High School in the Country (big honor for a Kansas school), and hopes to attend HS at either Aquinas or Rockhurst in the KC area. His extracurricular activities include band, jazz band, choir, boy scouts where last month he was nominated and accepted to the Order of the Arrow (Honor Society). He also plays in the football team and practices Tae Kwon Do (he will be a black belt in 3 months) and he has earned multiple medals in national competitions. He was also invited to a program sponsored by Duke University for gifted student where they follow the student’s progress from elementary school to High school and invite the top students to attend Duke when the time comes. Duke is a very prestigious school and would be great if he can get a full ride there, although we would have some serious arguments come basketball season, but I can live with that. Frankly, I believe he has too many activities, but this is what the other candidates do as well.
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@globaljaybird great advice! You can certainly tell which way some of our posters lean!
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@JayHawkFanToo Thanks so much for sharing-my son (I am near 60 so a generation is skipped) and your grandson have a few things in common- but WOW- what a resume your grandson is building. Unfortunately you are reading things right about too many activities. In this day and age of “year round club ball” etc. I have kids with excellent abilities who are being forced to choose one sport in Competitive Texas high school sports. I think that sucks. Even if they choose ONE sport, there is still pressure from band/choir etc. or other extra-curricular activities at the school to choose one and skip the rest-the opposite of how I grew up.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Sound advice- I just need to think that way more often because I am guilty of being right and then unhappy sometimes. At my age I should know how this works by now.
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Liked that .84 assisted stat.
All non assisted trey shooting is fools gold statistically and should only be allowed with a great go get a basket guy at closing time down 2-3.
Whenever I talk about 40 percent trey shooting I assume open look shooting with only a few guarded 3pta’s/season.
Sometimes I think board rats think I pick the 40% from trey criterion out of thin air, or that I read it from a coach like Self first.
No.
It’s just a logical calculation/ estimate of the percentage required to make it worth forgoing the inside trey (I.e., 50% make rate inside plus a FTA 33% of the time at a make rate of .700 on the FTA) to make defense pay for collapsing on the inside trey.
This 40% outside trey rate came clear to me about six years ago, then watching the high low and Self’s recurring inside-out comments and use of guys that made around that rate my estimate was confirmed.
.36-.37 are good enough to stretch defenses, but NOT good enough to make it worth not taking the inside trey. .38-.39 are near the threshold. But .40 is where the outside trey and the inside trey become a risk adjusted point of indifference.
This why I harp on 40 percent. With guys that create the point of indifference outside, the high low actually achieves strategic synergies in scoring efficiencies. At 40 % shooting outside Self can let the offense expand and contract repeatedly and get open looks outside AND inside, not just one or the other, and do so largely without actions, just with ball movement inside out. And KU WOULD HAVE GONE UNDEFEATED.
Offensive strategy in basketball is the exploitation of statistical scoring probabilities distributed spatially and accessible by passes.
The worse shooters you are, the lower and more vulnerably distributed are your spatially scoring opportunities, and the less benefit their is to ball movement. Just feed the post or drive it.
With good shooters, you keep it from sticking and play inside out.
Thus BRADY and TYREL made KU very good teams without put it on the deck athleticism.
Thus Travis Releford shooting 40% from trey was more important than Travis putting it on the deck.
Assisted open looks made at 40% are way more vital to optimizing hi Lo offensive efficiency and synergy than slashing.
BenMac could have shot 50% from trey on open looks had Withey been dominant offensively, and we had not needed to run so much action for him.
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No, I don’t believe you will soon be done with this topic of jaybate.
You return to jaybate often–once in awhile saying you are done with this topic, then re-turning.
But that’s ok.
I love you and never need to be right, or win.
I can always let you be finished with the topic of jaybate until you need to start with it AGAIN!
Rock Chalk!
