KU Players Leaving/Staying Tracker
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@ParisHawk Try Googling “nba combine test the waters”
Your notion that the phrase is not properly descriptive of the combine process seems to have been lost on all these players who are announcing they want to, gasp, “test the waters.” And the articles announcing the combine changes last year all seem to use that phrase for what it allows players not hiring agents to do.
But what do players using the system, or writers who deal with ncaa and nba personnel involved in managing it, know?
I also think there have been many nba players who were second round draft picks who would be shocked to find out that their draft status by no means would suggest that they were “ready” for the careers they enjoyed or are still enjoying.
Bottom line, as expressed in the post by @Crimsonorblue22 to which you have taken such exception, I also hope a few of our players test the waters if the nba invites them to. It will give them valuable information about their games and their propects for pro careers. If they decide to go pro, good for them. If they don’t, it will give them a chance to train and practice with specific goals to close gaps invtheir skills.
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@BShark Well, those guys certainly don’t see it as a rebuilding year!! In the immortal words of Raymond’s dad Frank, Holy Crap!
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Vegas doesn’t see it as a rebuilding year either.
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Vegas- Default Duke/Kentucky as title favorites 364 days away, bound to be right some year
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Makes sense for taking bets. I’m sure there are Duke/UK fans that bet on their team every year.
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@dylans Those are some good odds for Florida. I would consider them at 20-1. They’re consistently making very deep runs, have multiple Final Four’s in their recent history, they don’t lose a lot of talent, and they have a pretty good young coach.
Losing Hill is not even a big deal for Florida because they have Chiozza to fill in who is pretty good himself at PG.
They’re going to be a really good team next year and I hope that’s who we get in the Big 12/SEC challenge since we know it won’t be Kentucky.
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@mayjay One last time, I defend the idea that instead of disagreeing we are not talking about the same thing.
I never said a prospective second round pick was wrong to declare anyway. Anyone who can get a combine invite and afterwards decides to go pro goes with my best wishes.
I merely said that if a player has no intention of going pro then he shouldn’t go to the combine. The risk is that he would be highly rated and the refusal to stay in the draft would be held against him and his coach. I don’t see any reply that addresses this point.
Do you really think the NBA personnel at the combine would be happy to hear that a player was just there for the experience and had no intention of going pro no matter what?
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@ParisHawk Do you think teams that want a guy one year will decide not to take the same guy the next, or a teammate, because of a petty feeling of having been stood up?
In any event, the original dispute was over “testing the waters” because you said no one declaring should see it that way, but instead only declare if they intend to go pro if they are told they are ready. I leave it to you to convince the guys saying that how much they are damaging their future prospects. I think your real dispute here is with the rule change that gives early declarants that chance to back out–regardless of how many team want them.
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The risk is that he would be highly rated and the refusal to stay in the draft would be held against him and his coach. I don’t see any reply that addresses this point.
I think this is where we disagree. Players go to the combine to see if they ARE highly rated so they can join the draft. If they are highly rated I would think they would go on the draft and not back to school. They would go back to school only if they ARE NOT highly rated…wouldn’t you agree?
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Maybe it depends on what highly rated means. Kids have been projected as 20 to 25 and not drafted until mid-2nd round. Or in the teens but falling into late first/early 2nd
If a kid rates at the mid-twenties, he would get a guaranteed contract if drafted that high. Clearly, “ready.” But if he projects as closer to lottery level the next year if he develops, say, a better driving ability, or improves his 3 pt shot both accuracy and range, he might well decide to wait and try to get a more certain first round draft status, and avoid the risk of falling to second round with no guaranteed contract.
@ParisHawk How “ready” does someone have to be before you think he has no option to go back to school? No one gets promised anything at the combine; at best, they are provided a critique of a range into which they might fall.
I agree with you that anyone projecting in the first half of round one should not opt out of the draft. Beyond that, I think it is an individual decision based on the player’s own risk/reward assessment, plus ego, plus financial need. And I think NBA GMs will respect any decision made.
Maybe our issue stems from part of your scenario that I thought was facetious but perhaps underlies your misgivings. I think no player will go and say, “Hey, just screwing around here–don’t intend to really go pro. So whaddya think?” I think they all declare planning on trying their damnedest to impress if they get invited, and to go pro if they get monster feedback. They all want that Willie Wonka ticket, but some know it isn’t yet very likely yet, so they describe it as testing the waters.
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@mayjay they have to be invited. If everyone read the coach Self article on kusports it explains how he helps the kids thru it.
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@mayjay said:
@ParisHawk Do you think teams that want a guy one year will decide not to take the same guy the next, or a teammate, because of a petty feeling of having been stood up?
In any event, the original dispute was over “testing the waters” because you said no one declaring should see it that way, but instead only declare if they intend to go pro if they are told they are ready. I leave it to you to convince the guys saying that how much they are damaging their future prospects. I think your real dispute here is with the rule change that gives early declarants that chance to back out–regardless of how many team want them.
I don’t dispute the rule change. Players have that new freedom and I don’t want to limit it, but I think like all freedoms it should be exercised reasonably.
The first time after the rule change, Calipari told all his players to declare for the draft. They were indeed “testing the waters”. Selden after his sophomore year said he knew he was coming back so he didn’t declare. I think Selden was wiser and more respectful of the process.
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@mayjay said:
Maybe our issue stems from part of your scenario that I thought was facetious but perhaps underlies your misgivings. I think no player will go and say, “Hey, just screwing around here–don’t intend to really go pro. So whaddya think?” I think they all declare planning on trying their damnedest to impress if they get invited, and to go pro if they get monster feedback. They all want that Willie Wonka ticket, but some know it isn’t yet very likely yet, so they describe it as testing the waters.
Right. It wasn’t facetious.
I understand better why my very minor remark sparked these reactions.
I would rather my remark be dismissed than misinterpreted. So dismiss it.
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Just checked a couple of the projected latest draft boards of course - - of NBA Draft Net they have Josh as the # 1 pick going to the Celtics. – - They have Frank as the # 53 pick going to the Celtics.
NBA Draft Express has: - - -Josh as the # 3 pick going to the Lakers- - -They have Frank as the # 59 pick going to the Spurs, - - AND they have Devonte as the # 50 pick going to the Nuggets, I dunno we shall see. - -One thing is SVI not listed in either projected draft - -would be really good if he came back - -But could be to he returns over sea’s and plays - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Was listening to an interview of my local WIBW sports talk show, they were interviewing CJ Moore from bleacher report. Was talking about Bragg, and he said he fully looks for Bragg to come back for his JR year.
He said normally rumors fly - -people talk right around final four time, or at the final four you will hear the rumors about transfers or firings this and that and he said the thin g is he has heard absolutely NOTHING about Bragg transferring, saying there was nothing about a possible transfer, and again he said usually if that’s happening or talking about happening your gonna hear something.
He said he thinks because of the way things played out he thinks that it’s just goin to serve as a HUGE motivational factor for Carlton next year, saying that KU for sure seen enough in his Freshman year, they know the potential is there. Soo Maybe Ya Bragg DOES return - -I for one hope he does I still believe in him, I think he has things where he could really help out. Put this season behind him and progress hell he might bust his butt this summer to improve things for himself - -for the team. I think he has what it takes, I think the kid has a huge heart, awesome personality, I just think he got side tracked this last year and it snow balled on him - -Everyone deserves a 2nd chance I for one am ready to give that to him for sure. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BShark So dam, what you thinks he is trying to say? - -Good? - Bad? - -I dunno, to me sounds like maybe NOT so good. What ya think? might be trying to read to much between the line - -between the tweets lol - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I still think and hope he stays.
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Gonna hire an agent?
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I wish I could respond to y’all tweets the way I really wanted to
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D Graham
cryptic, it could mean anything.
If he was going why couldn’t he respond the way he wanted to?
is he indicating he is going to end up doing what he didn’t want to do?
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@Blown your guess?
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@Crimsonorblue22 my guess is even he doesn’t know for sure
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Could be waiting for the Banquet to say anything. I also read that KU puts out a video for its underclassmen going pro now instead of a presser?
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OK , OK , I know - -I’, saying this with tongue in cheek , but just saying as I read another well actually more then one - -but there was posts saying/asking WHY hasn’t Josh come out and announced that he was declaring yet? - - -What is he waiting on? lol. Now I know guys - -I’m not THAT stupid, but yet I mean it does kind of bring up a point - -WHY hasn’t he?
I mean and has been noted he was quoted after the Oregon game that his Mom and him hadn’t decided about that yet. - -To me You would think it would be a no brainer. - - Gonna be a lottery pick - -probably top 3, no place to go already at the top. - -Why would he even consider even the remotest of coming back - risk possible serious injury jepordizing his NBA career?
My thinking is that maybe, his is waiting to announce at the banquet Tuesday night. - -BUT yet, makes the mind wonder - -even if it is just a smidge, - -that tinsy little bit - -MAN if for some insane reason he announced he was returning for his Soph yr? - -What shock waves would that send across the sports Nation, lol - - - --ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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