Missed the WSU Loss to UK...
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WSU turned the game into a physical rock fight. No surprise that they didn’t get a majority of the calls because they tried to turn up the physicality of the game. There were stretches where nothing was being called either way, which is probably how Marshall wanted it to slow down Monk and Fox.
Marshall is at a bit of a crossroads with Wichita State. He has gotten to the point where his teams are going to be good year in and year out, but unless he can upgrade his talent and athleticism, he can’t take down a team like UK. Yesterday’s game was exactly what Marshall wanted, and yet they still lost.
The way I see it, that may be the only thing that gets Marshall to leave WSU - not the money, but the fact that he can’t win the big one because he won’t get enough talent to beat all of the elite teams.
You could argue that Marshall and Calipari coached to a draw yesterday, but Calipari had the better players, so he’s playing this week, while Marshall gets to go and work on recruiting better players. WSU upgraded the depth of their talent from the last time they played UK (although their peak talent was probably lower), but they still didn’t have anyone that could handle Fox one on one. That was basically the game.
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Agree. Marshall wanted old school Self/thug n mug ball. Neutralize UK’s advantage. That was his hope, and it almost worked.
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I was very upset about this game. I wanted WSU to get beat by 40. .
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@nuleafjhawk did u read about Marsha’s wife?
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@justanotherfan said:
You could argue that Marshall and Calipari coached to a draw yesterday, but Calipari had the better players, so he’s playing this week, while Marshall gets to go and work on recruiting better players.
This has been my main argument regarding Self vs. Cal. The shoe contracts have apparently made Self largely unable to compete on an even talent level with UK, Duke and UNC, since winning the ring in 2008 with a pretty talented team of players recruited back before the apparent recruiting asymmetry dynamic really became acutely set in stone.
Self, at a reputedly elite major, has faced a similar situation to Marshall and Self even said so, though most were not really taking him at his word. He said in an interview a few years back during a particularly dicey stretch of recruiting that he and his staff had won with players at Tulsa (reached the Elite Eight) of the kind they were by then having to sign at KU. Frankly, things have gotten worse since then. Self briefly used to be able to sign 2-3 OADs in a season and he can’t do that anymore. Take away Josh Jackson this season, the only OAD that the adidas conveyor could apparently deliver this season, and his talent level in terms of recruiting stars by the signed players names is probably as low as its ever been, and looks strikingly like a good mid major. This is why the job Self has done is so stunningly impressive this season and the last several. He is basically winning with the same kind of players Gregg Marshall signs with he addition of one OAD. If Marshall could convince the shoe conveyor to feed him an OAD, Marshall would at least have been able to coach a slightly more normal game against a team like UK, instead of having to result to Xtreme Tactics.
Your post was about Marshall, but its about Self and KU, too.
Self is a magician doing it with mirrors this season.
From here on it is going to be VERY difficult to hide that he only has seven players on any given night during the second of the two games each weekend.
Self has a bonafide future NBA high first round draft choice in Josh Jackson, and he has a guy everyone expected to be a star across the pond–Svi–and he has two of those once, or twice in a career diamonds in the rough types in Frank and Devonte. He has patched them together with a project center that has become a very serviceable college center and has been fortunate to find himself in a season, where long stacking appears no longer engaged in, AND there is no dominant OAD big man either with a good team around him.
I bet if you interviewed Self off the record he would be the first to say that things so far have broken just right for this bunch of players that lost its bruiser big man. They haven’t blown cold in the tourney yet. They haven’t gotten seriously fouled up yet. They haven’t run into a team with a strong inside game and long and athletic guards yet. They caught Duke and UK during the season in varying stages of development that his experienced team of highly skilled players, plus his OAD, could exploit in a way they may not be able to after those teams have developed to this point. Self has to be thinking, hey, I can’t believe it!!! We’ve got a shot still. But he also has to be thinking, "We have about 3.4 the raw athleticism as UNC and Kentucky in our starters and we 1/3th as much, maybe 1/8 as much, on our bench.
Gregg Marshall had to say something similar, only he had to acknowledge no OAD was on his team.
Self has not moved from KU to a job that gave him competitive talent with Duke, UNC, and UK, because he won his ring before the asymmetry locked in and starved KU recruiting to the point we see this season. Self knows there is a lot more luck involved with this team than with his 2008 team no matter what happens, because his 2008 team never faced a team with far more athleticism and talent, the way his 2017 is about to face.
Marshall has to look at his options and say life will stay smooth and affluent here at WSU. Unless I go to a major with a Nike contract, I am fooling myself and even then I am taking a risk of the rebuild not working out to something as stable as I have here. And he has to be thinking, well, one thing for sure: I sure as hell don’t want to go to an adidas, or UA, program, unless they pay me enough up front that my kids will never have to work a day in their lives.
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WSU will be back next year and better, I would be shocked if they didnt go to the Elite 8. They dont lose a single player. WSU plays harder than anyone they face, thats how they can play with UK and to be honest I thought they gave it away late with silly shots.
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Wichita shot horribly in this game and should have won had they had more efficiency on offense.
They played excellent defense for almost the entire game but that Fox dunk was a huge momentum play.
It looked to me that Landy Shamet was the only Shocker ready for the big-time, everyone else was kind of just blending in.
We can call it good defense or horrible offense but Wichita not getting a shot off has got to fall on someone’s shoulders (Marsha). I didn’t see a play that looked even remotely close to being something that would have won the game.
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@jaybate-1.0 …and we don’t have to play Duke, and we don’t have to play both UNC and UK because they would have to play each other first - oh and we don’t have to play Louisville.
Pretending to interview Self, he might also be saying “We play very good teams but no great team the second weekend, and we’re in KC. No complaints. And once you get to the Final Four, anything can happen.”
The second sentence is a real quote.
By the way, how many of each ShoeCo are represented in the Shoe 16?
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I say this as someone that does think they are a good team, because they defend.
They just aren’t a very good shooting team when they have to play against an athletic team. Saw it in all their marquee games outside the valley. The UK game was actually their BEST shooting game out of the OU, OSU and MSU games at 38%. Average it out and it’s about 37% shooting in those games. Even their first round win against Dayton (a good team) they shot 39%. Compare this to their near 50% shooting percentage in the MVC. The MVC masks their weaknesses and embellishes their strengths. I’ll admit I fell for it a bit this year.
Next year they will definitely be better. No idea what their schedule will be like, but they should hope to go undefeated so they get a better seed and avoid an athletic opponent in the carney as ole bate calls it for as long as possible.
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@BShark great point about their shooting. I think their fans were overconfident after mopping up with a bunch of bad teams. They said “they improved throughout the year”. Sorry, but you don’t improve by playing bad teams. It is not a coincidence that they “played poorly” and shot below their average against every good team they played. I dont think their fans see the correlation. You have to be tested in the season and be prepared for the tourney.
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@Crimsonorblue22 LOL - Yes! I’m still laughing. Guess that’s another reason Marsha won’t go anywhere else.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Mrs Marsha was allegedly drunk as H yesterday… Is there any truth to the rumor that Mr Marsha bullied his kids HS coach to get him on the team? SO FUNNY… I just think these are typical small time people in way over their heads in a world way too big for them. Andover is abt the right size. If they’re the least bit savvy, that’s where they’ll stay.
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I would respectfully suggest we keep the families out of our threads. Involving the family is what UK fans do and I would like to think we are better than that. Just my opinion.
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@Crimsonorblue22 She’s just a real peach !!
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@globaljaybird he doesn’t look athletic at all! Won’t be hard to find out.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Don’t recall where I ran across that but the more I read abt Mr & Ms Marsha, the more of the tabloid type stuff keeps popping up. Must really be something to their public behavioral issues with regards to rumors or there likely would not be anything neg at all. I do think most are aware that the “play angry” cliche’ is likely an extension of the angry little coach the Canadians encountered last summer. Sometimes people of that nature have a little clock just ticking away-tic, toc…, tic, tock…
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I don’t know that Self’s situation is as dire as you paint it. He got Jackson, he has Azuibuke and he has Bragg, although Carlton has not developed the way anyone would have hoped or predicted. He has Billy Preston coming in next year.
I think the trouble for Self had been that he didn’t embrace a more perimeter styled game until this season, so it was tough to recruit that type of player. Josh Jackson has changed the way a wing recruit will look at KU (for the better). If you were a wing recruit before, you look at Andrew Wiggins standing on the wing wishing he could get the basketball in a loss to Stanford. Now, you look at Josh Jackson putting up a monster game in the NCAA tournament.
It changes the entire perception. What KU really needs is for Billy Preston to come in next year and just blow up. The development of Bragg (and the “career” of Diallo) did KU no favors on the recruiting trail. That’s not ShoeCo. That’s a style choice that Self has begun to remedy this season.
The temptation next year would be to return to high low, but with Preston and Azuibuke, Self should still be looking to push tempo. If he can redeem the career of Malik Newman, that’s another feather in his cap that recruits will start to notice. The development of Mason and Graham helps, too, but what KU really needs is an NBA star, and I think that guy is Josh Jackson.
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Wiggins is a legit star in the NBA and so is Embiid…when healthy.
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She brought herself into the discussion by being a drunk buffoon in public, in my opinion.
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Dire situation?
Um, NO!
Injury god permitting he could have a much better team next season–a true power house inside and out–maybe Self’s, maybe even KU’s, best team ever.
But what will happen if the long stacking starts again in the EST? It won’t win a ring.
Regardless, Self loves clipping $10M coupons, even if he has to coach walk-ons.
And Sign board forehead Marsha loves him some $3.3M stubs plus the side revenue he banks.
DIRE has no relevance to this situation and I’m positive you shouldn’t have introduced DIRE into any discourse of mine.
This is about WHERE you set your son up, and WHEN you go to Tahiti for a few years.
KU should think about encouraging him to stay, or he flat won’t.
Other things equal, Self is positioned to cash in on Coach K and Roy slipping into Strom Thurmond status; i.e., the working dead aka figure heads on life support to keep their respective not for profit athletic departs generating massive Bit Coin.
Self has 10 more pre dementia years and he could hang on to run up his title count before the AD puts in a central line and starts wheeling him out until he dies, too.
But I’m taking Bill at his word long ago. He didn’t see himself as a long haul trucker. He wanted to live some at the end. I don’t think he’ll let them Strom him.
Really, whatever he wants to do I’m for. But I remember breaking bread with Nellie Wooden long long ago now and she said she wished Wooden had retired sooner; that was 1977. She said no one had any idea what the toll was from the kind of fame that came with winning ten rings in 11 years. She said he could have retired after winning 6 or 8 straight and had a lot more gas left in his tank for enjoying retirement. Plus she said he could have won 2-3 more and even he couldn’t see the point of that. She said the problem was the game and the business and the up and coming coaches just get more and more ruthless the more you win. He could have coached till he died if it were just practices and games. But it was the rest of it that sucked the life out of a person.
Imagine how much worse it would be today.
I can already hear the fatigue in his voice now. He conceals it but it’s there.
Author Ken Kesey told me once: the spot light withers you away.
I believe him.
Go, Bill, go!
But be careful.
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@JayHawkFanToo said:
I would respectfully suggest we keep the families out of our threads. Involving the family is what UK fans do and I would like to think we are better than that. Just my opinion.
Well said.
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I saw the video a few times and i have had some other friends, none a WSU fan, look at it and it looks like a fan, a very loud fan cheering for her team. Yes she was loud and to the opposing fans obnoxious and at the end of the game obviously dejected but it this was crime then MU and KSU would play empty arenas…MU already does anyway… A drunk buffoon? that is over the line…in my opinion, of course.
If there were f-bombs as alleged, I am sure that there would be hundreds if not thousands of videos of her since everyone has a cell phone nowadays. I have yet to see any evidence of that. If being a loud fan is that bad, should we place Uncle Anthony in that category as well? He was loud and to opposing fans, obnoxious, but we tough he was funny and cheering for his nephew.
Like I said, criticize Marshal all you want but let’s leave the family out of it. We hate it when the KC Star dogs KU, let’s not do the same thing with the wife of the coach of a team that is not in our conference and we don’t even play.
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@JayHawkFanToo While I appreciate your sensitivity here, someone mentioned earlier that she kind of brought it on herself. It’s not like some surreptitious affair where she was followed into a dark hotel room and secretly videotaped. It’s very hard to not talk about someone who was that obnoxious and outlandish. There’s no doubt that it was going to be discussed, but we don’t need to obsess over it.
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Two words that define KU before games, during games and after games:
Stay classy!
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It’s getting national coverage, it’s almost impossible not to have heard about it.
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@JayHawkFanToo She put herself in the headlines with her foul language which I have not witnessed in a video clip. Not interested in much of anything at wsu so wouldn’t consider wasting that much time on it either. Buffoon may be a mild understatement. Those tweeting from where she was acting out in the arena were quite emphatic that she was extremely liquored up & totally out of control, hence the escort from the police to the press room. We all can have different thoughts on right & wrong in such instances, but she did bring the attention on herself. It is news so based on that is an open topic. Like it or not, the Marshall’s do have some dirty laundry out in the open.
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@jaybate-1.0 Wiggins mighta got the ball more if he’d worked to get himself open a little better. I thought he kinda gave up when the Stanford double team frustrated him.
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Some days we’re PC & others like the Marx Brothers… an inuendo; outda window, whatever …
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@globaljaybird they showed her on inside edition. Shhhhhh
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@Crimsonorblue22 Potty
?
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@Crimsonorblue22 Yep, videos out there…
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@JayHawkFanToo I didn’t think the loud cheering in the KY radio guy’s video was anything but amusing. But if, as he said, she used the NCAA to threaten revoking his credentials to force him to take it down, that opens her up to very deserved negative publicity.
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The NCAA has denied the accusation. BTW, apparently no video recording is allowed on the bowl section from 30 minutes before the first game until 30 minutes after the last game so the radio reporter in question was in violation of NCAA strict rules and no question trying to create controversy…which most certainly did.
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@mayjay f bombs and racial slurs. Cotton pickers. Etc
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@JayHawkFanToo ha ha don’t believe they didn’t say that!
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The NCAA would open itself to one gigantic law suite if they blatantly lie. Seems to me like the UK fan site reporter was probably embellishing the story much like the Star does with KU.
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@JayHawkFanToo I’m firm
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@Crimsonorblue22 For the life of me I just cannot fathom why someone would wish to publically make such as ASS out of themselves on one of the biggest TV days of the entire freaking year & think no one will put it on social media or not care enough to not do it?? What the hell was this woman thinking? Does she even have a brain? And he completely & totally lost his really bad temper & wit in Canada over disagreements during a piddly ass exhibition game. Are these nuts on drugs or something? Be adults even if it hurts people. life ain’t treatin you that bad that you’ll get a pass acting like that on tv for cryin out loud. Maybe a vacation for two, to the Betty Ford Clinic is what the Koch bros should be paying for in the salary bump next fall. Man, this duo is really out there…waaaaaaay out there.
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@JayHawkFanToo Do ya think they’d admit trying to censor free speech ?
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@BShark She made herself the story by braying like a donkey in public.
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@KUSTEVE said:
@BShark She made herself the story by braying like a donkey in public.
Hee haw! That’s funny!
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Wiggins got called for 1-2 charges vs Stanford, and also got absolutely mugged 2 times on penetrating drives, no foul called. And as @HighEliteMajor pointed out 2yrs ago: some credit to Stanford’s coach & team gameplan: they threw 2-3 players at Wiggins every time he tried to drive it. Exact same thing Wiggins himself said postgame. Sad loss, as we shot decent from 3, played decent D. But couldnt score over length (u know who), didnt get rbds, too many empty possessions (no calls, no rbds).
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My biggest gripe of this season is WHY (???) the hell did Udoka have to suffer torn ligaments in practice? This is why Self has had to mask & patch over.
But, its forced the guards to be dynamic & aggressive. We are last year’s Nova, just as good, if not slightly better. But our run needs to be rock solid. We can beat UNC. But we have to destroy Purdue, & everyone’s pregame opinion of what they think will happen. Vegas has KU by 5, wish I knew what Vegas knows. And nobody is talking about what Mason & Devonte are about to do…
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Lots of people in Wichita I’ve talked with about WSU, feel Mrs.Marshall gave the town a black eye, to use their expression. It added insult to the loss on the hardwood.
Of course the KY boards were lit up about it in a sneering/jeering manner:“Wichita is full of women like her…”, “we always will knock them out of Tourney”
What she simply needs to realize, being MARRIED to $3mil/yr, is to exist on a different plane. There clearly are things more important than 1 game. Has she ever watched other coaches’ wives? Personal standards of behavior are called into question.
An elderly lady in Wichita said: “well, if she said such words in public, you know they use such within the home.” (No matter how archaic or generational we may consider this elder’s view). Same lady said “usually its men that yell like that, or NFL sideline, or lockerroom talk”. I had to agree with her. Language doesnt bother me usually at all, unless its way out of context or way out of place. Mrs. Marshall clearly was, in a very public manner. Much to the embarrassment of Wichita folks.
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FWIW, here is an account of the episode as related by someone that was at the game. It was written by a lady that is a good friend of the person that posted on Facebook and whom I know personally and I can vouch for.
This post is from someone that sat 2 rows behind Lynn at the Kentucky game.
"This post seems to be shutting the “opinion droppers” down on the subject of Lynn Marshall…and it’s the truth as I saw it In Indy!
I have posted on every story I’ve seen and feel the need on this one too. I sat two rows behind her. Yes she was cheering, yes she was passionate. I never personally heard the f word come out of her mouth or any other type of profanity. Maybe I missed it but if I did, how bad could it have been? I was right there. What I saw was the security person come over and asked her not to stand on the chair. She was standing and turning around leading cheers. We all stood the entire game except for time outs. I think the security guy asked her two or three times not to stand on the chair. She got down each time. Guys, this whole thing has been blown out of proportion. It is fake. Even the video I have seen showed nothing except what I just described. You also have to understand that there was a small section of maybe 500 Shocker fans to about 15,000 Kentucky fans. The entire tournament was a home court advantage situation with Louisville, Dayton and Kentucky within a short driving distance so we were outnumbered. We were ALL cheering as loudly as possible and we were in that game for those kids to win until the buzzer sounded. My face was numb from yelling so loud…we were all exhausted and sick for our team. They were awesome!! Every person was so proud. We all yelled passionately and I may or may not have uttered a superlative of my own from time to time. I feel for Lynn…it’s her life…she lives and breathes the effects of the things that have angered us all in this tournament. The crappy seeding, the bad calls, the blown opportunities…that’s sports!!! I think she is great and did not mean to be anything other than supportive. It’s unfortunate that someone tweeted a lie, then someone expanded and wrote a story and that story has gone viral and is overshadowing the great season these kids had, the classy way they represented Wichita and our University. I don’t care where you are from, that’s why we were ALL in that arena…to support our kids, our City and our school and to enioy the game of basketball! Anything else is just FAKE NEWS! Fist bump to you Lynn, we are SHOCKERS!!"
As I understand, no alcohol was sold at the arena and there is zero evidence that she was drunk, used the f-word or racial epithets as some have alleged.
You can take it at face value or ignore it altogether. I guess it comes down to the word of rabid UK fans or WSU fans in attendance. Given the history of racism in Kentucky, including their beloved Adolph Rupp, it is obvious which side is more likely to have brought up the racial epithets; you can draw your own conclusion. I personally believe that being exposed first hand to innuendo by the local paper would makes more hesitant to do the same thing the Star does…maybe it is just me.
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@JayHawkFanToo ha ha! I saw something totally different! Believe what u want.
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We are all entitled to our own opinions and as I indicated before, you can draw your own conclusions… The individual that wrote that narrative is a respected business woman in her early 60s with an impeccable reputation. All I have seen from the critics is a video that pretty much depict what the post above said and nothing more. If there was more to it, don’t you think the person video taping would have recorded the juicier parts? A reasonable person would think so.
Perhaps you can post a credible source with the other side of the story?
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@JayHawkFanToo you can google it if you want. She also went to post game interviews and hollered out. Perhaps you can ask your source about that!
Pure class
