- For helping Frank become the finest college player in America.
- For helping Frank get a 4 year degree.
- For helping Frank become a good man and father to his kid.
- For helping Landen develop into a quality big with a solid post move and best FG% in the B12.
- For never giving up or saying one defeatist thing when Udoka went down.
- For giving an interview after a heartbreaking loss and conducting yourself with dignity, throwing no one under the bus, appreciating the efforts put forth on the other side, and helping me to get a grip and accept it.
- For bringing Tyler on board these 4 years so that you could work your ass for this program and still help your son know you better and be close to you.
- For recruiting likeable guys every year. Guys we can look forward to getting to know even when the finest KU point guard of this generation now must move on.
- For being open minded enough to, out of necessity, turn your offensive philosophies on their head this year and allow the guards to be great. It is your ability to mask our weaknesses that make us all see our team as an unbeatable juggernaut each March.
Best posts made by approxinfinity
Thank you Bill Self
I haven't had this much fun since 2008
Run! Run! Run!
This team had me at Diallo.
And not because Cheick was great in his debut, which he was. Because it was at that point forward that Self relaxed, with his full complement of talent. Since then, it’s been like a dream for us Bucketeers. Self’s decision-making and our thoughts have been pretty much completely in lock step: Mick’s got the run he has deserved, we’ve been playing to our strengths (shooting, running), and Self has come out and said as much. It feels like love.
I’m riveted. Goosebumps flush my arms. The 20-2 runs that absolutely bury competitive teams have me on cloud 9. Disruptive defense from guards and bigs, the outlet passes from Mick, Cheick and Bragg, the breakneck push down the floor from Frank, and Devonte, the spread wings ready to bury threes, and the smart decisions that fill the space between these elements. It feels like love!
But to me, it doesn’t start with the 3. It starts with pushing the ball, and that means good outlets to Frank and Devonte, with Selden, Perry [and Svi/Green] rolling to the wings with the green light to bomb in transition. That’s the stuff that makes 20-2 runs, and championships are made of.
Don’t break my heart Bill. Let these Hawks run! What’s a 3rd side? Never heard of it.
Run! Run! Run!
Rick Pitino S-U-C-K-S
Rick Pitino, you are a trifling egomaniac. Come on man. I thought you were better than this.
At UNC down at the half, Pitino got irate and had to “be restrained” yelling at a fan whom ESPN reported to have told Pitino “Pitino, you S-U-C-K” as he made his way to the locker room. At least that’s how ESPN reported it, gun-shy about saying the word “suck”, and opting to spell it instead like the profanest of words. Pitino in his post game, called the fan a coward for turning his back on him. The fan was ejected. Are you f’n kidding me? If I got ejected from a front row seat for telling the opposing coach that he sucks I would lose my sh**!
And so Rick, you get my COWARD OF THE WEEK award. How sweet it must be for your entitled lily white butt to point at a passionate fan and have him ejected from his own home court.
Shame on you UNC, for turning the Dean Smith Center into King Pitino’s personal safe space.
And seriously, you can’t say “you suck”, you have to S-P-E-L-L it O-U-T on ESPN at 10:30 pm, but you can play trailers for horror movies at noon on a Saturday when little kids are actually watching?
RE: I miss Jaybate, I miss last year.
@jaybate-1-0 is a wonderful writer, capable of turning over rocks and tapping untapped wells of thought and emotions in places you might assume to be all tapped out, by always going a little bit further, lingering a little bit longer, savoring a thought, and turning it once more until it sparkles in the light. I miss the guy deeply.
I’ve come to understand that some people didn’t appreciate him as much as I do, that he did not resonate with them as much as he does me. But I ask those people to at least see how different and thoughtful he is, even if it doesn’t float your boat, and even if you do not see him as a friend.
Tough loss. Our shortcomings were on display today, and they were numerous.
Doke is not enough in the post, even if he stays out of foul trouble, and plays his best. He has tremendous strength, but also serious weaknesses. He does not high point the ball on rebounds, nor does he get up quickly. He does not have a great vertical, but has great length. He does not secure rebounds by getting his hand on the other side of it. He does not shoot beyond bunnies. He will be exposed by quick athletic bigs. Some issues can be corrected, others can be smoothed over, but smoothing over takes time. Probably another season. We need DeSousa and Preston. We just do.
Lightfoot is more agile than Doke, but strength is still an issue and will be. This too will take time, and probably another season to really address.
Malik is a bit of a headcase right now on O. I think he could learn a lot from watching video of Frank in transition. Remember Frank got swatted repeatedly early on. Sherron too. Should watch before and after Tyshawn tape too.
Vick did his best, but he looked tremendously uncomfortable at the foul like for 2/3 of the game. Every shot looked a little different, like he just didn’t know what a 10 footer should feel like. If he’s expected to be that guy against the 2-3, he needs to practice that shot over and over. And over and over.
We need to get the ball moving against the zone. This sitting around while the ball goes into the high post to an out-of-sorts Lagerald for the shot every single play is mind numbing. Our guys were standing around on the perimeter when they should have been getting open for the kick.I’m pretty sure Self knew that he was playing with PlayDoh and the other side had modeling clay about half way through the first. He partially owned the loss in his postgame, and I think thats fair. We were flat and our gameplan uninspired. Also, with a non-elite rebounder who lacks quick twitch hops / mobility, options are pretty limited passing to the interior.
Svi’s shot from the corner was just not going to fall tonight. Devonte seemed to not know what he was supposed to do besides passing in to Vick. Garrett looked lost for a 3rd game.
By the end of the game, we could not run or did not run with Washington. Very likely we were gased and shellshocked. Our lateral quickness was either timid or slow and got torched, and they dictated pace to ice the game. At one point Devonte (?) waited for Doke to get down the floor so he could throw an errant lob as the defense recovered.
The good news is, we exposed a lot of weaknesses at once. Plenty of motivation to work our asses off in practice. The bad news is, some of this stuff can be corrected over the course of the next month, and some of it can’t be with this personnel and lack of bodies.
Billy Preston probably would have been useful at the high post tonight. DeSouza probably would have been useful in the rebounding department.
I really hope we get them this year, otherwise I’m tempering my expectations on being competitive to win the Big-12, and hoping to make it to the Sweet 16, with the certainty that some team lurking beyond that can exploit our weaknesses.
You better not pout... You better not cry...
Silvio is coming to toooown…
Merry Christmas all my fellow KU basketball addicts! I have a deep and pervading affection for all your affectations! Thank you for being you!
I’ve been voraciously reading Beyond the Streak. Great stuff! Would love to start a book club thread with a spoiler alert disclaimer to discuss some of the things that they address. Let me know who has it / is getting it. I’m on page 40. That is right about the 2005-06 Big 12 championship revenge game against Texas. It’s slow going because I find myself reflecting on every game or event they discuss, and then what it has meant for every subsequent generation of Jayhawks and our perceptions, recruiting, Self’s philosophies, etc. It’s like reading this board except where @jaybate-1-0 has turned into Stephen Vinson, @HighEliteMajor has turned into Matt Kleinmann, @Crimsonorblue22 has turned into RussRob and @wrwlumpy has turned into Mario Chalmers.
Anyway… merry Christmas and remember, the streak survived Aldridge, Daniel Gibson, AJ Abrams and PJ Tucker when we had Vinson, Moody, Hawkins, Kleinmann and a bunch of freshmen and sophomores! Buckle up guys, it’s going to be a hell of a ride.
RE: Garrett still hurt
Devon is my current favorite.
Frank will always be the first player whose game I really loved. And this is probably why Devon is my favorite. Devon’s last game was 100% vintage Frank Mason. He did all the things, capped by getting to the line repeatedly down the stretch and calmly eviscerating TCU. It was captivating and unstoppable.
After the Dark Ages at point guard (Naadir, preceded by Tyshawn and EJ), plus having to start 4 Freshman his first year, Frank’s evolution was the Renaissance. The light came back on. The head was restored. Coherent play returned. Lobs, drives and kicks, 40% trey balling. Frank touched our withered playbook and made it green again. The 4-1 became possible. And when Frank left us, the continuity was not broken when Devonte took the reins.
And when that ended without an understudy, I feared the worst. But Devon came. And saw. And conquered. What a freshman PG! WHAT A FRESHMAN PG! Without the tutelage of Frank and Devonte, he has managed to achieve everything I would hope he’d achieve with them still here.
And the chain remains unbroken, miraculously. When Vick left, it seems to me that this was the moment that @drgnslayr mentioned. Devon’s coronation. The King has returned. Long live our young PG King! He did not disappoint! On Monday, Devon wielding his vorpal blade as it went snicker-snack, the Frogs fell before him, and could do nothing to stop him except perish underfoot.
But Agbaji, Agbaji is not of this lineage. His lineage seems lost in time now, a distant epoch, maybe harking all the way back to BRush, or maybe further, maybe he is something we have never seen at Kansas. I haven’t quite figured out where he falls among the stars. A 6’5 wing with a 40% trey gun, tough defender, excellent hops and athleticism, intelligence, and perhaps what might separate him is his maximum effort and competitiveness. This separates him from the Xaviers and Oubres and Wiggins. If there is not greatness in this kid then count me in as one of the fooled. I believe we have a better Brandon Rush on our hands. And that is tremendously exciting as a floor. But, this is a tale that has yet to unfold.
Whereas with Devon I see what he is, I know what he is, and it comforts me that we have a ball dominant lead guard that can control a game like he controlled the game Monday.
The future is now! I want to see what these kids can do the rest of this reason. Must see TV!
RE: Calling @justanotherfan and @HighEliteMajor
The point of this board was originally to offer a place to talk KU hoops without having to provide your identity to Facebook.
So, in that origin story there are two things being championed:
- a love of Kansas basketball
- a love of freedom
The decision to expand the opportunity for discussion into politics (among the other buckets we added over time) is in line with the second reason for our origin.
I believe the stigma against political discussion as a country has not been good for us. I believe we should be able to discuss and debate anything and still be able to coexist and appreciate each other. I believe now more than ever we need to learn how to not be polarized and pit against others who see things differently. And given this, and the fact that the whole political section can be ignored, I think it’s a good thing to have.
@drgnslayr I was amazed in reviewing the stats from last game that I think Devonte shot 50% for 10 points 7 Reb and 6 assists. It seems to me that our expectations for devonte might still be so high that some games he’s being the glue we need and we aren’t giving him any credit for it.
RE: Red Dawn
Dude please censor yourself. I won’t be here to censor you all the time. I appreciate your passion, and I understand that most of the active readers are adults, but the biggest reason I draw a line in the sand on dropping the f bomb is that it’s a slippery slope. Your usage of the word might be innocuous, but I just don’t want that language here because it has the potential to be extremely offensive quickly.
LaGerald the Executioner.
On LaGerald’s 360 dunk the other day, I thought of how he has the capacity to make both fans and foes alike uneasy. He’s got an edge. A chip. He’s out for blood. He’s a shark. A killer. He wants to win by making you lose. Badly. Its everything. On a good day he will destroy someone. Break them down. I contest that he is exactly what we need.
Look at Oregon’s Bell. Damn if he wasn’t effective. What @KansasComet pointed out was spot on. Altman whipped up a hate for Kansas and his players were under it’s spell. For 40 minutes I don’t think Bell had a single thought other than that he was on a mission to destroy us. He did just that. In his post-game he couldn’t put much of a sentence together. It was like he was in another place.
I believe LaGerald is significantly smarter than Bell, and he does not need a complete duck of a coach to get him all pissed off. He comes out of the gate with that edge. I think that edge could be razor sharp and something we need. Josh had his creativity. Devonte had his swag. But only Frank of our big 3 didn’t lose his edge once we got punched in the face. Frank has the edge. He came to Kansas with it. He’s refined it. He’s a complete human being, can call that intensity and rein it in. But the edge is all important to basketball. I will win and you will lose and you cannot stop me and I will stop you.
That is not for the feint of heart who do not like competition. One can be a gentleman off the court. But on, until the fate of the game is sealed, I want the guy who will never give an inch to the opponent. That is only bound by the rules of the game.
And then there is Greyson Allen. Someone who is not bound by the rules of the game. And I would argue that he did not find salvation in basketball. The rules are not a holy code for him. They are an inconvenience. He would just as well stab you in the back with a knife. Take the ball from you as you lay dying and shoot it.
The rules are holy because it is within the rules that we have a standard means of assessing who has won. If the rules are bent then it invalidates whether I have beaten you. And as an executioner, I want it known by me you and whomever happens to be watching that I will break you on fair terms.
I believe LaGerald has the edge and we need it. I want more ballers with the edge. Guys who want the taste of iron in their mouth. And I hope more of these guys coming in have it too.
RE: Bragg is leaving
@BeddieKU23 Mickey D Big Macs with Geez.
I’m sad about this one but think it makes sense for Carlton to start over. Coming back from last year’s issues is hard anywhere and especially at Kansas.
I will not be surprised if he still turns into a beast by senior year.
Wish him the best. Will root for him wherever save at the axis of evil (Andrew White was an exception)
RE: KU Pulps Orange Boys: Graham Leads Win from Higher Dimension
Mitch did take a couple charges when the game was still in the balance. I felt he impacted the game a bit more than Garrett. Garrett drew a ridiculous foul by moving laterally into a guy I think. That was about it for positive (?) impact.
I had older siblings, and I went to college when I was 17. Was always younger than my classmates, and I felt it; always there. While I was confident, I was willing to defer to my elders, which happened to be most of the kids around me most of my youth.
Svi is 20 now, right? Still younger than many of the guys that are his peers. When Svi’s subconscious weighs his social status, it may find him to be his peers’ equal, without attempting to be their superior.
Last night Svi’s autonomic basketball superiority kicked in. The sweet stroke that had the Spurs organization salivating took over in a moment that might have caused Svi to freak out if he had thought about it. He didn’t think about it. He elevated, released and stuck a shank in 15,500 Pinnacle Bank Arena dreamers that thought they were watching a Nebraska W.
I hope that as a basketball player he realizes that he’s neither young nor old. He’s just a smart player and a great teammate with a finely tuned trey cannon that can be fired accurately at will to the lament of 15,5.
Please recruit players that are capable of being good at everything
Going forward, I’d love it if we could avoid recruiting guys with tragic flaws. In an effort to avoid being exposed for lacking certain capacities when one or two of our guys are out for the season, it would be nice to have a redundancy of well rounded players.
If we could ensure the following of our recruits, it would help:
- No bad shooting form.
- No mysterious inability to make a single shot.
- No bigs that can barely jump
- Nobody who shoots every time they touch the ball
- Nobody who jabs himself in the head with his fingers after making shots instead of getting back on D.
- No easily disgruntled players.
- No guards that can’t shoot 3s.
- No bigs that don’t attempt to play D, rebound, and box out.
EDIT: Appending with good suggestions.
- No headcases.
- No presumed one-and-dones protecting the goods.
- No players that like pot better than basketball.
- No guards that can’t dribble.
Generally speaking, I hope the Transfer U era is over, and we focus on freshmen.
RE: Dam Devonte G - - -nice start my man
@RockChalkinTexas The kid is amazing. After all the guys we’ve sent off to the league thinking they had a chance at being rotation guys only to see them riding pine and quietly exiting to foreign leagues, finally, a guy for whom we had no presumptions about sticking in the league, and Devonte goes out and CRUSHES IT.
I hope nothing changes for him. May the wind always be at his back.
Sportsmanship and life
I play an online game. Most of my opposition is college kids. So frequently I hear them say in their chat “ez” and brag about their accomplishments when they do well. Much less frequently, I hear people call out specific things others do well.
I make a point of praising particular plays that are executed well, and call people out for disrespecting their opponents.
I’ve coached a lot of youth sports and seen some atrocious behavior from kids in handshake lines that does not get corrected by their coaches.
I’m concerned that we are creating a culture of “me” with little investment in others. Our standards are getting inverted.
To me, children insult. Children brag. Adults praise others, or offer constructive feedback.
To me, this is a big problem that is not being addressed. Sport is a facsimile of life.
Does every kid need a participation trophy? Really, I don’t care about that. That’s a talking point that people hung their hat on that is arbitrary.
Much more importantly, kids need community, where they are recognized, encouraged to interact, and they recognize the positive qualities of others and challenge them to be better people.
RE: NOW WE KNOW WHY THEY CALL HIM SNACKS?
I feel bad for Snacks. He’s as much one of our own as Wayne Selden or Frank Mason, imo. Maybe more so being that he played four years for Bill Self at Illinois prior to two years of coaching for KU. This is a lifestyle choice, considered illegal in some parts of the country. Most of us have gambled in office pools, drank in public, trespassed and broken God knows what other petty laws in our life. It is my opinion that the government should only be dictating what choices I can make in so much as how they may harm others. You may disagree, but please let’s consider Snacks one of our own and hope this all works out for the best.
Soon, I'm going to upgrade the board
We’ve sat on this version of the board for a while now, and I had planned to upgrade during the slower Summer months. We’ve been pretty active so it’s kind of slipped a while.
Just wanted to give you guys a heads up. It is on my radar and one of these weekends sooner rather than later I will upgrade.
Talking with Flip Saunders
…Are we gonna see Wiggins run more pick-and-roll this season?
Remember: The first thing you have to do to establish yourself is be able to post up inside and score or get fouled. We did the same thing with KG when he was 18.4 Then teams can’t put a smaller guy on you who is fast enough to take away your perimeter game. You chase those smaller guys off the court.
So I wanted him posting up. And in the second half of the season, he was right there with James Harden in free throw attempts. He put people in the torture chamber.
He has to get better at other things. He shot the ball well early, and then he got tired. He wasn’t ready for the drudgery of an NBA season. We put an unbelievable amount of pressure on him to score. We ran more pick-and-roll with him at the end of the season, and he got better. But he needs to be better.
He’s working on his ballhandling. If he improves, I’ll give him more responsibility. If he doesn’t, I won’t. He’s a blank canvas. Very few players enter this league with the ability to draw on that canvas and create any kind of game they want. …
RE: Where is @Red_Rooster?
Ironic that we are knocking participation trophies on a thread dedicated to a guy who makes us feel good by passing out free +1s no matter the quality of our post because he appreciated our contribution?
@Red.Rooster glad to see you! Sorry to hear that your wife is having troubles. Hope the docs can figure it out. Will be thinking about you.
RE: Carlton Bragg Arrested
He’s not that physical on the court
This should be part of his defense.
“I can’t box out, your honor. if I was pushing someone down the stairs on purpose it would probably end up me at the bottom. I may have bumped in to her but I got hit first by some other giant clumsy dude. I think Landen was with me. I think we were both reaching for the same cup perched on the bannister. Think he knocked it over and we both slipped.”
KU Buckets Go Fund Me Campaign
Now that the basketball season is over, I’ve put together a KU Buckets Go Fund Me campaign for this coming year. This campaign covers only costs. I reached out to Julian Lam from nodebb, and he told me that he expects the upgrade for the board won’t take him too long, and that the cost should be $150. I’ve added that cost in, as I’ve wanted to upgrade the board for a long time, but was unable to do so myself due to errors I was hitting in the upgrade path.
Please only contribute what you can and feel inclined to do! No pressure here.
Thanks for a great year on the board. I’ve really enjoyed all your company through another season of KU basketball.
3 Generations of Bill
We have seen 3 Generations of Bill now.
2004-2008 (2003 doesnt count. That was a lost Roy year)
The first ended in a championship. The second a championship game. The 3rd 2 Elite 8s lost to the eventual champion and a team that lost by a hair to the champion.
Each generation had its theme.
Balanced high low with staggered classes, jumping passing lanes.
Senior overloaded team with thinner rotation, half court sets, lock down d.
One and done era, frustration on unreliable bigs (and Perry, the lone throwback Self big. Awkward teenage years of guard oriented offense (trust issues: fools gold). Then true greenlight shooting, true stretch 4. Not losing his head when the D underperformed. Trust. Calm.
Each generation had its defining injuries. Brandon Rush injury gave us a title. Mcclemore ineligibility might have cost us a ring. Udokas injury may have cost us a ring.
Each generation had its COY award. 2009 (would argue 2008 ring put him on map, 2009 was everyone seeing him succeed with less), 2012 and 2016.
This last generation hasn’t ended each season how we wanted. But we were within a hair of winning two rings these last two years. No Dooley, no Manning, no front court for a high low master! Injured Embiid, ineligible Cliff, injured Udoka. Despite that, we had our best 3 point shooting team ever under Self. I also think we had our best ball handling since 2008, our best player development, and our best recruiting since 2008.
We are poised to do well next year. And maybe we are now over the need for a generational rebuild like we did after the first two generations and mass exoduses. I don’t think Bill will ever let the classes get unbalanced like we had in 2011-2012 again.
There are a lot of really good signs that Bill has figured it all out.
So let’s wish really hard for something to break our way this time with the roster. We are due for a good break. We may already have gotten one with Carlton stinking it up. If he comes back a new man, picking up where he was projected to be, how good could we be? And Devonte having an off shooting night. Sure I’d trade another year of Devonte for our guys getting a ring and DTae going early as a stud, but looking like we get him back. If he blows up next year, how good are we?
We just need a couple breaks. That’s all it takes.
RE: WVU player punches TT fan
@chriz as much as I want to beat WV, I have a hard time rooting against Jevon Carter. He feels a lot like their version of Frank to me. A solid senior guard, tough as nails, that has improved himself every year, and seems to have a good attitude. So I hope he plays, does well, and we just do better than his team.
RE: The post Doke era
It had become apparent that in the old paradigm, we were never going to reach the potential we thought we had before the season.
Blow that all up! We didn’t play a great game but we played hard. We shot half their 3pt% and we still won! The guys passed well, disrupted passing lanes, Dedric was loose on O, and OA looked like a vet.
My faith is reborn!
RE: I’m a small person
@joeloveshawks Duke is garbage, a cancer, a winner by technicalities, friendly whistles, and doing whatever they can get away with. They try to act like their athletes are scholars, and that Coach K is a kindly old paternal figure (he’s a raging, whiny, entitled sh—head). In a world filled with BS, the last, last, LAST thing I want to do when I try to escape in my sports is watch the embodiment of that BS on my screen polluting a game I love, and getting rewarded for it. F—k Duke.
You’re not alone.