K.J. Adams
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Should be a never good get for us
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Functional athleticism sounds like a below the rim player that’s going to end up being an defensive liability.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in K.J. Adams:
Functional athleticism sounds like a below the rim player that’s going to end up being an defensive liability.
He has some in game dunks in his highlights but he’s no Udoka or even that JUCO kid KU offered two days ago.
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@BShark said in K.J. Adams:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in K.J. Adams:
Functional athleticism sounds like a below the rim player that’s going to end up being an defensive liability.
He has some in game dunks in his highlights but he’s no Udoka or even that JUCO kid KU offered two days ago.
Most of his highlights are lay ups and not dunks so I stand by him being a below the rim player. Even Perry and Dedric had a few drinks in their highlight tapes.
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Above the rim - - - Below the rim - -last time I heard - -read- -or saw --still has the same value in scoring , at the end of the day it’s still 2 points. Who would of Thunk it ?
I don’t give a tinkers ass if he is above the rim type player or not. - he can flush it - - he can lay it up - - he can finger roll it in - -he can tip the dam thing in - -as long as that round object goes through the rim & the result is two points - - - -I’m good with that. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer73 Adams being a below the rim player is an issue because it’s a sign of lack of athleticism. At his current size of 6-7 and about 200 lbs., he’s probably going to be a wing and an unathletic wing doesn’t typically do too well in Self’s system.
How many times did Perry Ellis and Dedric Lawson get their shots blocked because they were below the rim players?
So while the premise that a dunk and lay up are worth the same is accurate, someone who is a below the rim player is much more likely to have their shot blocked than an above the rim player which does affect a player’s ability to score.
If you can’t grasp how being a below the rim player is a major concern for a player, then I don’t know what to tell you.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I wasn’t disagreeing, he is not an ultra elite athlete.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in K.J. Adams:
@jayballer73 Adams being a below the rim player is an issue because it’s a sign of lack of athleticism. At his current size of 6-7 and about 200 lbs., he’s probably going to be a wing and an unathletic wing doesn’t typically do too well in Self’s system.
How many times did Perry Ellis and Dedric Lawson get their shots blocked because they were below the rim players?
So while the premise that a dunk and lay up are worth the same is accurate, someone who is a below the rim player is much more likely to have their shot blocked than an above the rim player which does affect a player’s ability to score.
If you can’t grasp how being a below the rim player is a major concern for a player, then I don’t know what to tell you.
I’m not that concerned, I’ve seen plenty of the so called below the rim players do just fine. I mean it’s obvious that Coach thinks he is worth the Scoli - - I think I’d rather trust Coach’s judgement - -He has a solid jumper he is gonna be just fine. , so you really don’t need to tell me anything
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@jayballer73 there have been several guys here who never dunked in HS, ex Julian Wright, Mario Chalmers. Granted Mario wasn’t 6’7.
I haven’t watched the kids highlights yet.
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Below the rim athletes can be very dominant in high school, then fall flat in college. At 6-7, he is probably one of the bigger guys on the floor on most nights. In college, he will see someone bigger than 6-7 every single night. If he is not able to shoot from the perimeter, he will be very limited on offense. And if he isn’t super bouncy and fast twitch, he’s a less athletic Jamari Traylor. That’s not a guy that will have an impact at a P5 school.
Now, maybe there is some athleticism to unlock. Perhaps that’s an angle to look at. But if that’s the case, he may need to redshirt to accomplish that. Or maybe there’s some shot potential, but again, that’s a year long process that may require a redshirt.
I guess where I am is that he’s currently a less athletic Jamari Traylor, with the opportunity to be a less skilled KJ Lawson or (absolute best development case) Jamari Traylor with a jump shot.
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I wouldn’t knock the guy too much yet. He’s a top 80 recruit for a reason. What I saw was a very athletic muscular frame but maybe not the explosive vertical you are wanting lol. The kid had very good handles, nice mid range jump shot, and good passing ability. I think he would be a good get. Sure we missed on the 5star KBrown. Brown would have been here 1 year, this kid is a 3-4 year guy. Sometimes we are better off with quality 3-4 year guys anyway. Besides Brown could dunk but he couldn’t shoot a lick.
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@justanotherfan could KJ Lawson dunk? Serious question I don’t remember. Adams definitely can. He’s a solid shooter, already better than Jamari. Not saying he will light the world on fire at KU but I think he has a good chance at a very solid 4-5 years.
@jayhawks2010 A friend of mine that is at Sunrise was very concerned about KB’s shooting. Said it was broken. I mentioned this before when it was believed KU would land him so it’s not just a sour grapes thing. I still think he would have been really good at KU, but it would have cost KU a game or two for sure.
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Jerry Meyer is projecting him as a P5 starter with the comparison being Kristian Doolittle. I’d take that and run with it.
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A Kristian Doolittle comparison, I’d take that and run with it too. Hopefully (if he signs with us), by the time his career at KU is finished @Texas-Hawk-10 and others will be calling him KJ Doomuch.
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@justanotherfan Jamari Traylor was athletic as hell, but minimally skilled. Ochai falls ino that same category of very good athlete, just not very skilled. About the only way Adams and Traylor do compare is body type as Adams definitely looks like he has room to add another 20-25 lbs. of muscle onto his frame.
KJ Adams kinda reminds me of a poor man’s Perry Ellis. Decent skill set, decent shooter, but subpar athleticism. That lack of athleticism is almost certainly going to force Adams to be a stretch 4 at KU, but even then Adams is probably always going to be a major defensive liability at the P5 level.
His shooting form looks solid so he looks like he could develop into a really good shooter which is probably his best bet to ever see extended minutes for KU if he came here.
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@BShark said in K.J. Adams:
Jerry Meyer is projecting him as a P5 starter with the comparison being Kristian Doolittle. I’d take that and run with it.
I’m not seeing a Doolittle comp at all unless all he’s comparing is a short 4. Doolittle couldn’t shoot for shit from the field and was quite a bit more athletic. The one year OU had a good season was also Doolittle’s least productive season and that was Doolittle’s sophomore season when they had Trae Young and went to the FF. Fewest minutes, only year Doolittle wasn’t a regular starter, lowest PER by a lot. Doolittle was productive when there wasn’t much talent around him.
If KJ Adams came to KU, he’d have to wait quite awhile to play and is someone that would likely redshirt early on because of the logjam KU has that spot. Just in 2021-22 alone, he’d likely have a senior TGF, a Jr./So. Enaruna (depending on if he can get back or not), and a So. Wilson in front of him on the depth chart and that’s just with current players. If anyone wants to view him as a wing, then you add a Sr. Agbaji and a Jr. Braun into the mix not including any other possible recruits KU could land.
Just based on that, the earliest KJ Adams would project to be a factor in the rotation would be his 3rd year at KU.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 um, OU did not go to the ff Trae Young’s year there. They went 18-14 and lost to URI in their first tournament game.
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@BShark I got mixed up on which year Nova beat them, but my point still stands about Doolittle not being very productive when there was more talent around him though.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Maybe because there was more talent around him?
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The entire Trae Young season was a disaster for everyone not named Trae Young. Several guys basically quit iirc.
I expect some attrition that we are not expecting. Let’s say two more people besides Garrett, Silvio and Mitch leave, that means a 5 man class. Really don’t need more wing/4 types though, that’s for sure. Would love to add a 5 and 2 more guards if that were the case.
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@approxinfinity said in K.J. Adams:
@jayballer73 there have been several guys here who never dunked in HS, ex Julian Wright, Mario Chalmers. Granted Mario wasn’t 6’7.
I haven’t watched the kids highlights yet.
ta I know. - -Was Frank Mason an above the rim player ? - -Was Devonte Graham an above the rim player ? - -I know different position, BUT still really good players. - -Is McCormack an above the rim player ? - -What about Christian Braun ? - -above the rim ? just a couple , could go on - -and from high-lite That I have seen umm yes - - Adams CAN play above the rim , just depends on the Situation. - just because he isn’t doing eye popping flush all the time doesn’t mean he can’t play above the rim…
Scout report says he has a very servicable Jumper - -is Jalen Wilson above the rim player ? - the answer would be - -no more then KJ. Some people jut want to automatically start tearing a kids play up right from the get go - -gets pretty old. KJ A dams is going to be a very solid 4 year player for KU - we can’t land nothing but one and dones we can’t land the Monster rim eating studs all the time. - -What we can do is just like Coach is doing finding solid 3-4 year players that may need some work but still very very solid players - -don’t get me wrong this isn’t directed at you - really not directed at anyone in particular - - just saying - -I think I trust Coach & we & KJ Adams are going to be just fine
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@jayballer73 I feel you. I appreciate all the chatter, the doubters the believers, all. Dreaming about basketball is just what the doctor ordered.
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@Marco said in K.J. Adams:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Maybe because there was more talent around him?
Which is my point on a Doolittle comparison. Doolittle had by far his absolute worst season when there was some talent around him and wasn’t even a regular starter his sophomore year after starting as a freshman. Doolittle’s PER that year was 8.1 when they had talent around him.
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More in depth look from Jerry here. He thinks KJ would do well under Self.
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@jayballer73 Perry Ellis and Dedric Lawson could also dunk and nobody has ever called them an above the rim player. Players of Adams size who play mostly below the rim tend to be poor defenders due to a lack of athleticism and bad rebounders due to poor jumping abilities. Players with Adams profile at programs like KU have a history of struggling and not panning out as expected due to their physical limitations. Another difference between Adams and Ellis and Lawson is the Ellis and Lawson were both top 40 recruits while Adams is barely a top 100 program.
I also remember a lot of people giving me shit when I kept saying that Quentin Grimes was going to be a busy because of him being from an area that’s weak in HS basketball. The HS Adams attends is the top football program in Austin and a top 10 program in Texas having churned out a lot of NFL talent including two Super Bowl winning QB’s currently in the NFL in Drew Brees and Nick Foles, but Austin isn’t exactly known as a basketball hotbed so I also have serious doubts about the level kf competition he’s faced, especially without an AAU season this year to go against better players and improve.
So add all of these factors together along with doubts about a HS season happening and a not very athletic kid without much, if any, organized basketball activity potentially over a year is going to make me skeptical about what he’ll ever be at KU.
If you want to try and claim I’m always bagging on recruits to taking a dig like you did, then you might want to check history, because there’s plenty of recruits I’ve been high on that others weren’t.
I’ll go ahead and breakdown KU’s current roster right now you can comeback and see what I got right and wrong.
Marcus Garrett is going to be an NPOY candidate this year and a second round NBA pick. If Garrett could shoot, he’d already be in the NBA as a lottery pick. His defense alone is going to keep Garrett in the NBA for a long time and he’ll probably have a Pat Beverly type career.
Bryce Thompson is going to be a good, but not great 2/3 year player for KU. My comp for him is Wayne Selden. Thompson isn’t elite at anything specifically, just a solid all around player, but that lack of an it factor is what will hurt his NBA prospects.
Ocahi Agbaji is someone I’ve made pretty clear my feelings on and I’m nowhere near as high on Agbaji as others here are. Even playing on a top AAU team he didn’t get much attention from other P5 programs. I do believe he is the most naturally athletic player Self has ever had at KU, but he’s also one of the lowest skilled players as well and one of the lowest basketball IQ’s Self has had. He’ll be a 4 year player, and test off the charts in regards to physical abilities and maybe get picked up in the 2nd round based on potential, but I believe that’s all he’ll ever be is potential that spends a year or two in the NBA before headed overseas for the rest of his career.
Mitch Lightfoot is a future coach and honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he becomes a GA after this year. Mitch is one of the smartest players Self has had which is why he’s always maximized his time on the floor and why Self wanted Mitch on this team this year. He’s also a great leader and does the little things well like setting screens, knowing how help from the weakside defensively, and whatever is needed to help KU win. Mitch’s game is a perfect compliment to basically everyone who will be on the floor for KU because this is going to be a group that looks to drive the ball first and then kick out to an open 3. Mitch is going to be instrumental in making that happen.
Tyon Grant-Foster is one I’m less up on than others because I’m always naturally skeptical of JuCo’s in basketball. TGF is an above average athlete, but he falls into that Ochai, Jamari neighborhood of a good athlete, but lower skilled player. His shooting is a big concern as are his turnover numbers. He is a solid rebounder for his size which means he’s aggressive. I don’t think he’s a bad player, but I’m less optimistic about the immediate impact he’ll have than others are this upcoming season.
David McCormack is an upgraded Landen Lucas that can score more. He’s a guy we know effort is never going to be an issue with and is always looking to get better. He’s probably going to be 2nd or 3rd team Big 12 this year and a Big 12 POY candidate as a senior. I don’t see him getting drafted, but I can see him making an NBA roster based on his hard work and dedication to getting better.
Christian Braun is that guy we all hate when he’s on other teams. He is that annoying white kid who can go off for 5 or 6 made 3’s any night. Even if Braun doesn’t start this year, I think he should start over Agbaji personally, he’s going to play starter level minutes for his remaining 3 years at KU.
Tristan Enaruna is KU’s best NBA prospect to me. He’ll take all 4 years to develop like Svi, but he’ll be a very good player by his senior year. Being brought up in the Euro game, defense is probably always going to be his achilles heel, but he has the makings of being a Svi clone.
Jalen Wilson is another 4 year guy. Another Texas player with subpar athletic ability. I don’t see him ever becoming more than a role player and if he doesn’t develop a consistent shot, he’s someone I don’t see finishing his career at KU and probably ends up transferring to a mid major conference.
Silvio DeSousa is going to go down as the biggest what if player in Self’s tenure at KU. We saw flashes of what Silvio could be as a freshman, but the NCAA and the KSU incident have majorly derailed his development. Silvio is probably a top 3 rebounder under Self and is a phenomenal shot blocker, but is someone who needs a redshirt to focus on refining his game. If I were Self, I’d seriously consider redshirting Silvio this year honestly because I think Silvio would be best option at the 5 next year out of the realistic options Self has.
Dajuan Harris is someone I’ve struggled to get a solid read on. I don’t see him being ready this year to even be the back up for Garrett which is a little concerning since he’s probably taking over in 2021 for Garrett. He’s currently listed at 160 lbs. on KU’s most up-to-date basketball roster so durability is going to be a big concern with Harris until he can get into the 180 lb. range.
Gethro Muscadin is a player that’s going to need all 5 years to maximize his potential at KU. I think he can eventually develop into something similar to fellow Haitian Skal Labissiere except being able to rebound. He definitely needs to add bulk because so he doesn’t get bullied. He’s also still relatively new to basketball from what I can tell so he’s definitely a work in progress, but I’m just not expecting much of anything his first 2-3 years here.
Latrell Jossell along with Jalen Wilson is someone I don’t see finishing his career at KU. Jossell probably has this season to prove something in practice to convince the staff to not recruit over him, but he’s even smaller than Harris so durability again becomes a major concern because his body doesn’t look like it can handle much past 170-75 lbs. without taking a hit on quickness.
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My opinion is based on the two highlights posted. In the highlights, his drives that he makes are basically straight line drives. He doesn’t make any dribble moves to beat an opponent. It’s just catch and drive for the most part, and even then, its not a thing of quickness, he just gets the angle and goes to the basket.
On the second video, you notice a couple of times with him in the post and he can’t just use his strength, quickness, footwork, or athleticism to just beat his man on the back down. He’s effective in HS with his skillset, but will look very ordinary in college against a strong 6-5 guy (think Mario Little type) that will have a quickness advantage on him.
I don’t think he’s a bad player, but he is a 9th or 10th man at best to my eye right now. His handles are not great, so he isn’t really a wing. His set shot is solid, but he’s not a guy that can fly off screens and knock down threes all day. I don’t see an elite athlete (probably peg him at above average, but not more than that).
He’s a nice recruit to get if he’s going to be here five years. He will need a redshirt year to become a significant contributor IMHO.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in K.J. Adams:
@jayballer73 Perry Ellis and Dedric Lawson could also dunk and nobody has ever called them an above the rim player. Players of Adams size who play mostly below the rim tend to be poor defenders due to a lack of athleticism and bad rebounders due to poor jumping abilities. Players with Adams profile at programs like KU have a history of struggling and not panning out as expected due to their physical limitations. Another difference between Adams and Ellis and Lawson is the Ellis and Lawson were both top 40 recruits while Adams is barely a top 100 program.
I also remember a lot of people giving me shit when I kept saying that Quentin Grimes was going to be a busy because of him being from an area that’s weak in HS basketball. The HS Adams attends is the top football program in Austin and a top 10 program in Texas having churned out a lot of NFL talent including two Super Bowl winning QB’s currently in the NFL in Drew Brees and Nick Foles, but Austin isn’t exactly known as a basketball hotbed so I also have serious doubts about the level kf competition he’s faced, especially without an AAU season this year to go against better players and improve.
So add all of these factors together along with doubts about a HS season happening and a not very athletic kid without much, if any, organized basketball activity potentially over a year is going to make me skeptical about what he’ll ever be at KU.
If you want to try and claim I’m always bagging on recruits to taking a dig like you did, then you might want to check history, because there’s plenty of recruits I’ve been high on that others weren’t.
I’ll go ahead and breakdown KU’s current roster right now you can comeback and see what I got right and wrong.
Marcus Garrett is going to be an NPOY candidate this year and a second round NBA pick. If Garrett could shoot, he’d already be in the NBA as a lottery pick. His defense alone is going to keep Garrett in the NBA for a long time and he’ll probably have a Pat Beverly type career.
Bryce Thompson is going to be a good, but not great 2/3 year player for KU. My comp for him is Wayne Selden. Thompson isn’t elite at anything specifically, just a solid all around player, but that lack of an it factor is what will hurt his NBA prospects.
Ocahi Agbaji is someone I’ve made pretty clear my feelings on and I’m nowhere near as high on Agbaji as others here are. Even playing on a top AAU team he didn’t get much attention from other P5 programs. I do believe he is the most naturally athletic player Self has ever had at KU, but he’s also one of the lowest skilled players as well and one of the lowest basketball IQ’s Self has had. He’ll be a 4 year player, and test off the charts in regards to physical abilities and maybe get picked up in the 2nd round based on potential, but I believe that’s all he’ll ever be is potential that spends a year or two in the NBA before headed overseas for the rest of his career.
Mitch Lightfoot is a future coach and honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he becomes a GA after this year. Mitch is one of the smartest players Self has had which is why he’s always maximized his time on the floor and why Self wanted Mitch on this team this year. He’s also a great leader and does the little things well like setting screens, knowing how help from the weakside defensively, and whatever is needed to help KU win. Mitch’s game is a perfect compliment to basically everyone who will be on the floor for KU because this is going to be a group that looks to drive the ball first and then kick out to an open 3. Mitch is going to be instrumental in making that happen.
Tyon Grant-Foster is one I’m less up on than others because I’m always naturally skeptical of JuCo’s in basketball. TGF is an above average athlete, but he falls into that Ochai, Jamari neighborhood of a good athlete, but lower skilled player. His shooting is a big concern as are his turnover numbers. He is a solid rebounder for his size which means he’s aggressive. I don’t think he’s a bad player, but I’m less optimistic about the immediate impact he’ll have than others are this upcoming season.
David McCormack is an upgraded Landen Lucas that can score more. He’s a guy we know effort is never going to be an issue with and is always looking to get better. He’s probably going to be 2nd or 3rd team Big 12 this year and a Big 12 POY candidate as a senior. I don’t see him getting drafted, but I can see him making an NBA roster based on his hard work and dedication to getting better.
Christian Braun is that guy we all hate when he’s on other teams. He is that annoying white kid who can go off for 5 or 6 made 3’s any night. Even if Braun doesn’t start this year, I think he should start over Agbaji personally, he’s going to play starter level minutes for his remaining 3 years at KU.
Tristan Enaruna is KU’s best NBA prospect to me. He’ll take all 4 years to develop like Svi, but he’ll be a very good player by his senior year. Being brought up in the Euro game, defense is probably always going to be his achilles heel, but he has the makings of being a Svi clone.
Jalen Wilson is another 4 year guy. Another Texas player with subpar athletic ability. I don’t see him ever becoming more than a role player and if he doesn’t develop a consistent shot, he’s someone I don’t see finishing his career at KU and probably ends up transferring to a mid major conference.
Silvio DeSousa is going to go down as the biggest what if player in Self’s tenure at KU. We saw flashes of what Silvio could be as a freshman, but the NCAA and the KSU incident have majorly derailed his development. Silvio is probably a top 3 rebounder under Self and is a phenomenal shot blocker, but is someone who needs a redshirt to focus on refining his game. If I were Self, I’d seriously consider redshirting Silvio this year honestly because I think Silvio would be best option at the 5 next year out of the realistic options Self has.
Dajuan Harris is someone I’ve struggled to get a solid read on. I don’t see him being ready this year to even be the back up for Garrett which is a little concerning since he’s probably taking over in 2021 for Garrett. He’s currently listed at 160 lbs. on KU’s most up-to-date basketball roster so durability is going to be a big concern with Harris until he can get into the 180 lb. range.
Gethro Muscadin is a player that’s going to need all 5 years to maximize his potential at KU. I think he can eventually develop into something similar to fellow Haitian Skal Labissiere except being able to rebound. He definitely needs to add bulk because so he doesn’t get bullied. He’s also still relatively new to basketball from what I can tell so he’s definitely a work in progress, but I’m just not expecting much of anything his first 2-3 years here.
Latrell Jossell along with Jalen Wilson is someone I don’t see finishing his career at KU. Jossell probably has this season to prove something in practice to convince the staff to not recruit over him, but he’s even smaller than Harris so durability again becomes a major concern because his body doesn’t look like it can handle much past 170-75 lbs. without taking a hit on quickness.
very nice - - I think I’ll STILL have a tendency to lean just a wee bit more towards trusting the KU Coaching staff in evaulation of a player then umm I dunno - - - you. Not saying your not an excellent evaulator of talent it’s just I feel more comfortable in men that do this for a living and on top of that - -they seem to make pretty good money at doing just that, and I think now I could be wrong but I think MAYBE - - just MAYBE have had pretty good success with offering these types of kids/ Yet thanks for your opinions always love varying opinions , what makes the world go round. Can’t agree on everything. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Fwiw Adams is a kid that was top 25-30 and then fell off a bit. Similar to Perry but with a different trajectory. Perry iirc was top 5 at one point, maybe just top 10. But he moved around a bit.
I was somewhat down on Grimes as well due to things I heard about him, and was down on KJ and Charlie as well. I thought they were bad fits. I do think Adams is a better fit for Self based on what I’ve seen and read. Obviously I’ve been wrong before as well, I thought Bragg would do well…
Not to go jaybate but Selden was definitely hampered by injuries in his time at KU. Hopefully Bryce stays healthy but I agree he does not have one ultra elite trait.
I have similar concerns with TGF but I think he is going to play a lot because Self loves him.
If Mitch could actually score the ball he would be amazing. But he is great at all the little things, Lucas was too and that plays with Self.
I would also start CB over Agbaji I would like to see Agbaji get down to the 20 minute range but this absolutely will not happen.
I’d crap myself if Enaruna gets to Svi’s level as a shooter. He had a lot of threes that just were not even close. Svi had the bad first year not playing a lot too but it was evident that he would be a good shooter. He was known as a shooter coming in. The other thing is Svi had TRex arms, Enaruna is like a bird with huge wings. This helps his defensive potential enormously and is his path to sticking in the league I think. Just get the shooting to a competent level and engage/understand defense.
Agree on Jalen. If Tristan does get stuck in Europe, Jalen is the main beneficiary imo.
I feel sad for Silvio. He looked lost on offense last year. Like you said everything got knocked off track for him.
The staff seems high on Harris. Agree we don’t know yet, he hasn’t played a minute at KU. The word is he is an excellent pure pg that distributes the ball very well. Teams will likely try to make him actually finish drives as much as possible, because he is pass first.
I feel like Gethro and Jossell were scramble takes while the NCAA crap was at full tilt. It would not shock me if both end up elsewhere.
@justanotherfan I agree and I think developing a great level jump shot is his path to playing at KU. Jerry touches on that in fact (screen cap below). He is absolutely a 4-5 year guy. That’s even being mentioned now, which is fairly rare before guys even get to college. I don’t think he is a starter his first two years, if he’s okay with that then great.
I decided to screencap Jerry’s breakdown for those w/o VIP.
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@jayballer73 You do know at this stage, KJ Adams is nowhere near KU’s top choice in recruits right? There’s a reason why the staff waited until this point to start making a push for Adams and it’s because of other players KU’s staff liked better turned KU down for whatever reason whether it be playing time, fit, possible sanctions, etc.
This is more of KJ Adams being best remaining option rather than best option. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn’t, even for KU.
You have a case like 2011 where Self didn’t plan on the Morris Twins leaving early (still don’t know how he didn’t plan on that even being a possibility) where that class was put together late and only 2 of the 5 ended their college careers at KU and only 1 of 5 was here two year later.
Frank Mason was a similar case as he was the 8th or 9th player Self recruited at PG alone that year.
More times than not though, beginning to recruit a player this late is more of a desperation move than anything else because that player has major holes in his game that may or may not be fixable.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I respect your opinion, but you called Adams a poor man’s Perry Ellis and maybe he is, time will tell (I personally, think he’s more athletic than Ellis). But that being said, Perry Ellis is one of my all-time favorite Jayhawks and all that he did was win.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I do like your debates, you bring something to the forum - which is kind of why we are here in the first place.
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It’s pretty apparent that the staff started making a big push after KB went to Baylor.
It’s certainly been a mixed bag for Self with scramble additions. Mason was an early signing but definitely not the first choice. Some of the PGs I remember that were targeted and missed on before adding Mason: Kasey Hill, Anthony Barber (somewhat KU’s decision to move on), Tyler Ennis, Rysheed Jordan, Demetrius Jackson, Roddy Peters… There might be more, that’s what I remember. Some of these players ended up being worse than Mason. There’s definitely some luck involved.
Cheick Diallo, Brannen Greene, Cliff Alexander, Grimes and Conner Frankamp were all plan A type recruits. Then you have plan A recruits that work out just fine like Dotson, Udoka, Dave, Josh, Garrett, Wiggins, Selden, Embiid, Oubre (almost didn’t but I would say he was a success).
Some other scramble recruits: Svi, Graham, Vick, Billy Preston (does not pick KU if KU gets Ayton, period), Agbaji, Harris, Braun, Wilson, the entire 2011 recruiting class except Ben, Anrio Adams, Landen Lucas.
@Marco Ellis was more athletic than he gets credit for by a large portion of the fan base imo.
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@BShark Dropping 60ish spots is major drop and an indicator that his ceiling/development is limited.
I don’t think Gethro was a desperation move on KU’s end. For a sub 150 recruit, he’s had some other really good offers like Tech, Louisville, and Memphis along with a bunch of other P5 and quality mid major offers. Gethro’s also the player out of this class (KU’s 2020) that I’m highest on long term as a player.
My Bryce Thompson to Selden comparison is the post injury version of Selden that was noticably slower and less athletic than before his injuries.
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@BShark Bigtime, I was not knocking his athleticism (just think that Adams - from what I have seen - is more athletic, is all). Ellis was a smart, team player, not flashy but could score in a variety of ways - including above the rim. I do not recall Ellis ever consistently being a crappy defender either.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Thompson is known as an outside shooter, was Seldon ever called that?
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@Marco KU really didn’t win that much with Ellis. Never made a Final Four and the 2 of the 3 worst seasons under Self happened with Ellis.
Perry was a better athlete than Adams is, but Perry still got shut down and taken out of games with relative ease by good defensive teams.
Ellis will always be a fan favorite, but that doesn’t mean he was a great player. He was a good player, but there’s also a reason why he never got a serious look from the NBA.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Without Ellis those teams (all four of his years) would not have been much of anything.
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@Marco said in K.J. Adams:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Thompson is known as an outside shooter, was Seldon ever called that?
It’s not what he was known for, but Selden was an above average 3 point shooter being in the upper 30% range and Bryce’s shooting ability is a bit overhyped at this point.
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@Marco said in K.J. Adams:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Without Ellis those teams (all four of his years) would not have been much of anything.
My mistake, I was off on Perry’s actual years at KU (since he was allegedly at KU for 15 years according to some). KU only made it to one Elite 8 with Perry. I keep thinking he graduated in 2017 instead of 2016. Perry was a nice player, but he never should’ve been the focal point of the offense of those teams and that’s a big reason why they underachieved so much. A lot of that falls on Self and staff for failing to land better players to help out, but 2011-2014 was a pretty dark time for KU recruiting.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Yep, Self failed by getting someone anticipated to be a project in 2013 who merely became the number 3 pick. Crappy recruiting…
Oh, don’t forget the no. 1 pick that year, too…
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@BShark said in K.J. Adams:
It’s pretty apparent that the staff started making a big push after KB went to Baylor.
Some other scramble recruits: Svi, Graham, Vick, Billy Preston (does not pick KU if KU gets Ayton, period), Agbaji, Harris, Braun, Wilson, the entire 2011 recruiting class except Ben, Anrio Adams, Landen Lucas.
Rio Adams and Landen Lucas were 2012 recruits, not 2011. 2011 was McLemore, Traylor, Naadir Tharpe, Merv Lindsey, and Braeden Anderson.
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@mayjay said in K.J. Adams:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Yep, Self failed by getting someone anticipated to be a project in 2013 who merely became the number 3 pick. Crappy recruiting…
Oh, don’t forget the no. 1 pick that year, too…
My bad, 2010-2012 was the shit recruiting for KU. As for 2013, great talent, but damn sure didn’t hp KU win any more games that year considering they lost 10 games for the first time under Self and got their asses handed to them by Stanford in the 2nd round that season in the NCAA tournament. That group was arguably the most talented group Self has ever had, but was also by far Self’s worst KU team until the 2018-2019 team came along.
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So, and what of this past season’s team? A total recruiting bust when going up and down the lineup? I am telling you, if Adams signs he is not going to be a chump. When all is said and done (if indeed, he does sign, and I guess we are all assuming that he will) if I am wrong I’ll be the first to admit it. Kind of like I was, so far, about Enaruna.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I know that’s why I listed them by name instead of “the 2011 class other than Ben”. Since Ben was the only plan A recruit taken in that class.
The dearth of good recruits between 2010-2012 is what led to the need for such a large immediate impact class of 2013. You will always end up having some attrition when you take a class that big. Overall, it went about as good as you could hope for but I wasn’t surprised when it ended in tournament failure. It’s best to avoid requiring such a large class of immediate contributors if possible.
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@BShark This was your exact wording, “…2011 recruiting class except Ben, Anrio Adams, Landen Lucas.”
The teacher in me reads that as you saying Adams and Lucas were part of the 2011 class, not that Adams and Lucas were part of the 2012 class.
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That was meant to be listed as one name essentially instead of listing off the other 4 members of that class. It could have been better if I put that last.
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@Marco said in K.J. Adams:
So, and what of this past season’s team? A total recruiting bust when going up and down the lineup? I am telling you, if Adams signs he is not going to be a chump. When all is said and done (if indeed, he does sign, and I guess we are all assuming that he will) if I am wrong I’ll be the first to admit it. Kind of like I was, so far, about Enaruna.
If Adams signs, it’s going to be awhile before he ever plays meaningful minutes because he plays a position KU has zero need for in the 2021 class. His best case scenario at this point for minutes is for Enaruna to be unable to return to the US due to Corona and decide to turn pro and stay in Europe and Zach Clemence to end up playing the 5 which opens a path for Adams to get minutes in year two. Even in that scenario, Adams would be a starter until year 4 after Wilson left.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in K.J. Adams:
If Adams signs, it’s going to be awhile before he ever plays meaningful minutes because he plays a position KU has zero need for in the 2021 class.
It’s interesting to me that the staff felt they needed to go after someone at this position. Maybe they are expecting a departure that we are not, maybe it’s just about filling the roster out because I do think this will end up being a 5 man class. It almost never happens where every underclassman stays.
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@BShark said in K.J. Adams:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in K.J. Adams:
If Adams signs, it’s going to be awhile before he ever plays meaningful minutes because he plays a position KU has zero need for in the 2021 class.
It’s interesting to me that the staff felt they needed to go after someone at this position. Maybe they are expecting a departure that we are not, maybe it’s just about filling the roster out because I do think this will end up being a 5 man class. It almost never happens where every underclassman stays.
Enaruna staying in Europe or Wilson transferring are the most likely scenarios of unexpected departures that would make the staff look at someone like Adams to me. I know Jossell seems like a prime transfer option as well, but he wouldn’t impact KU looking at Adams so I’m leaning towards Enaruna or Wilson not coming back with Enaruna being the more likely option at this point due to Covid.
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Texas hawk 10 your so wrong on Thompson. The guys going to be a stud he’s already taller then he was in High school and he’s a sharp shooter. He’s a first round pick easy! Obviously we need some top 30 talent to be a great team but a foundation of that 2008 title team had a lot of solid top 100 guys (Kaun, Robinson, Jackson). Garret has been a great player and he wasn’t a top 20 player. Even trob wasn’t top 15. Last final four team didn’t have a nba first rounder and was great. Yeah NCAA vilolations and unchecked Nike recruitment of guys to duke and Uk Is hurting ku but Virginia, Villanova all won titles with 3-4 year guys. And by the way kJ is exactly like the Villanova big guys that destroyed ku in the final four. 6”7 shooting big guys with muscle so they don’t get pushed around.
