Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond)
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@benshawks08 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@FarmerJayhawk Those all sound like a good start.
I go back and forth on unions because as a teacher (and specifically as a special Education teacher for 5 years) I’ve seen the good and bad of teacher unions. They provide a singular voice that can advocate for raises and structural changes that have made life better for teachers. At the same time, I’ve watched unions handcuff administrators from getting rid of objectively bad teachers.
With more and more money filtering up instead of trickling down, unions are essential to leveling the playing field but I agree the police unions are notoriously awful and a serious problem that needs to be dealt with.
Your list is about as good of list as I’ve seen and I appreciate you note they are “low hanging fruit” meaning there are larger systems changes need beyond those as well.
Well done.
Thank ya. My view is teachers’ unions are net negatives to kids (Caroline Hoxby has done great work on the topic). But police unions are an obvious negative. In general, I’m very uncomfortable with the notion of public servants striking against the neediest in society.
The one thing I didn’t get to because I don’t have my head wrapped around entirely yet is a rewrite of criminal codes. I think we have far too many laws and regulations on the books, which complicates the job of law enforcement beyond what is necessary or even good. That’s sort of the coup de gras I’m after in this whole shindig. My man Chris Arnade (if you haven’t read his boom Dignity, please do. It’s required for understanding real poverty) calls it libertarianism for the upper class, authoritarianism for the lower class. I want the forever for everyone!
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Apparently, I am THE most naive, ignorant person on the face of the earth. I CANNOT believe that race is even a thing. I can’t believe it. I’m not going to sit here and tell you I’m a saint. Most of you know that’s BS and my family and friends will all attest to the fact that I am NOT. But I can tell you this for sure - I don’t give a shit what color someone’s skin is. What does that have to do with ANYTHING??? I talk to people on the phone all day long - most of them I’ve never met and probably never will meet. I don’t know if they’re short, tall, black, white, in a wheelchair, whatever. I like or dislike that person based on their personality. If I met them in person (and many I have) it doesn’t change what I think of them. I have talked to guys that sound like Mr Rogers and look like one of the Duck Dynasty guys. I’ve met women that sounded like Marilyn Monroe and looked like Mama June (old style Mama June). It doesn’t matter. I didn’t say, “Well, shit - they don’t meet my physical profile needs. I’m done with them.” NO - I had already established that I liked them and their appearance doesn’t change that.
What the hell, people? Try liking / trusting / helping someone first. THEN, if they screw you over - throw them under the bus. Preferably not literally. I just can’t believe we call ourselves a civilized society and treat people like this.
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@FarmerJayhawk I’m conflicted on unions. A couple of years ago, I failed a student because they were lazy and never did any work and the kid and their parents tried to get me fired claiming I was bullying and targeting the kid and filed a complaint against me with the school board after the school year ended. The lawyer the union provided me was able to prove this was a pattern of behavior by the parents, but because my district always kowtows to parents, our union is the only thing keeping a lot of teachers from undeservedly losing their jobs.
I would go with unions need to be reformed, but they are definitely still needed in a lot industries, including education.
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@HighEliteMajor said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@benshawks08 Cool. The turnoff, of course, has never been the disagreeing part.
Remember, people are and should be considered enemies from a personal/family preservation standpoint. The inner city thug that wants to kill me is my enemy. The cop that is a murderous thug is my enemy. If you want to destroy America and overthrow the government – enemy. If he wants to talk then it’s different. But let’s be clear. People are the ones that cause harm. People are who we defend against.
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On Trump, I voted for him. Trump is disgusting to me. His policies are what I strongly support. But the man is repugnant. If I could have either Obama or Trump to my house for dinner, I’d go with Obama without thinking about it. Hillary was nearly as personally repugnant and worse because she was such a part of the system. My vote was defensive, as well, to oppose what I see from the left.
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Trump is truly incapable of doing anything here. He is so hated by the left that no matter what he does, it’s mocked. Anything. But I don’t find him capable at all of being one that could unite. I do think Biden could do that. But I revert my defensive vote … the more he embraces left, left, left, the less I can really even consider that. Where is Joe Lieberman when you need him, or John Kasich for that matter?
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On point 7, if my area was high crime, out of control, I’m good with it. Further, if I travel to those areas (as I am tomorrow), I’d be good with being searched. I find it interesting that the left is very quick to ok the removal of personal liberties when there is a virus with a 3% death rate but won’t consider it in war zones. To stop the bloodshed and violence, I’ll sacrifice a bit to get that under control.
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I’d moderate on the extra prison stuff. Perhaps that wasn’t my best idea. I’m not a fan of hate crime stuff anyway. But … my motivation is to protect those that are victimized. The six year old shot on his porch because his uncle angered a drug dealer.
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Of course, being a single parent and an atheist does not make one bad. But the dynamic in the inner city is striking. Rahm Emanuel, who is very much “left” and was the mayor of Chicago for 8 years, said, near the end of his tenure -
“This may not be politically correct," he said, "but I know the power of what faith and family can do. … Our kids need that structure. … I am asking … that we also don’t shy away from a full discussion about the importance of family and faith helping to develop and nurture character, self-respect, a value system and a moral compass that allows kids to know good from bad and right from wrong.”
It is a critical element in the discussion and should not be ignored just because some folks are anti-religion and have find it threatening when the nuclear family is valued. We know the left hates that.
The Chicago Sun-Times noted the correctness of Emanuel’s the message.
But then there are those that don’t want to discuss ALL of the issues. Countless articles. Interestingly, now, when you search, you can barely find anything reporting the comments. Rather, just the attacks. It’s all about being a victim.
An example of the anger - Shari Runner, former president and CEO of the Chicago Urban League, deemed the remarks insensitive. "I cannot see the victims of racist policies and bigoted practices shamed by anyone who says they need to do better or be better in their circumstance. I won’t accept it,” Runner said
This is a huge part of the problem. Victim. Victim. It’s a mindset.
Part of the mindset is blaming guns. Anything BUT the individual.
Further, the left says you can’t be a perpetrator if you are also a victim. It’s what we see now. All the ridiculous fawning over the proteste … er, rioters. It’s the “in” thing for all public figures to have to comment on. And if you say something that doesn’t fit the message, like Tiger Woods today, it’s attack – Woods said, correctly, that it makes no sense to burn your own neighborhoods. Can you imagine that?
But I’m sure he’s not “black” enough – at least according Biden, right? To the left, you “ain’t black” if you don’t fall in line with the left’s message.
Also, Chicago is very much an interesting case study. I encourage everyone to spend time and review the volatility during Emmanuel’s tenure. What you will find is constant complaining about over policing, under policing. About stopping crime. About harassment and brutality. I wasn’t able to find it but there was one councilman that complained one time about too many police and then a year later about not enough police to stop the crime. It’s really a sick comedy.
But it is encapsulated in the quote from the Ms. Runner above. The leftist inner city leadership takes zero responsibility, by and large. The quote is gold. They have been in charge. They claim things have gotten worse. Makes you think, if you want to think.
I just can’t disagree more about the enemy stuff. No one is going to want to talk if you show up armed to teeth with preconceived notions about them being the enemy. I fully believe that what you get from people is mostly a reflection of what you put out. And if all you can think is enemy enemy enemy, enemies you will have.
Help with the logic on Trump. You dislike him, find him Repugnant, would rather have obama over for dinner (?), and are positive he cannot fox what you yourself have claimed to be the biggest issue facing our nation and one that is life or death. But with all that said are still pretty sure you will vote for him over Biden (who you admit might be able to address the issue) because “the left.”
What could possibly be more dangerous than a vile repugnant man incapable of fostering unity being allowed to “lead” (because are you leading of a majority aren’t following) the country for four more years, knowing that he’s already been impeached and it would be virtually impossible to remove him for anything he might do. Remember this repugnance we are all witnessing is him trying to get re-elected. What does it look like when he no longer cares?
I believe you when you say you care about life and people. And I can generally see from your posts you are not stupid. So I just can’t understand this stance.
As for the church stuff, know my dad was a preacher and I grew up basically living in united Methodist churches. But the government cannot get involved in sponsoring religious activities. Do churches with an abundance from their affluent suburban flock need to do more outreach? Yes. These mega churches drive me crazy with the amount of tax free revenue they seem to only reinvest in their own blossoming communities (generally newer bigger buildings for themselves to use). But the government cannot and should not be advocating or sponsoring any religion as part of policy.
As for the less police, more police dynamic you speak of, the goal should be to reduce police presence AND increase services at the same time.
Victim hood is a dangerous mindset but I would argue oppression is more dangerous. Work to fix the inequity and then there are no victims. It always seems you are advocating for “personal responsibility” for those who are shouldering the heaviest burden and have the least power and control in society. I’m glad to see you agree the police officer in this most recent incident is responsible for murder. If he was willing to do that with a smirk on his face as people recorded him and three other officers helped, how much pain and suffering did those officers cause in that community when no one was looking. Who is responsible for that communities distrust of authority? Who is responsible for the anger bubbling over right now? It’s tough to take personal responsibility with a knee on your neck and four more on your back. That’s what I think Shari Runner’s quote is saying. And yeah, it’s gold.
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Here is an org with a clear plan and actionable steps to enact change of anyone is interested. A lot of similarities to stuff posted by @FarmerJayhawk
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https://twitter.com/garretthaake/status/1268233764070731778?s=21
Hmm… why would “enforcement officers” remove names and insignias?
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For my Wichita people who might be worried about stuff going around online, make sure you know where your information is coming from.
https://www.businessinsider.com/white-nationalist-identity-evropa-twitter-antifa-looting-2020-6
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@BShark I already called my mayor today as Austin still has a LOT of work to do. Noticed Wichita currently is at 3 out of the 8 and Kansas City 0/8. We have our own case here locally that isn’t as widely publicized. His name was Mike Ramos. I listened to his mother speak on a zoom general council meeting and it was heartbreaking.
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The militarization of the police is an issue. There are police forces with tanks and armored vehicles. That doesn’t seem like the Jedi way of keeping peace. The more muscle you have, the more you want to flex and use it. Several incidents in history have shown, showing up to already bad situations with with more fire power only leads to more blood shed.
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Some very fair criticism of some links I and others posted yesterday. Learning something new everyday is good!
https://twitter.com/efnewsome/status/1268414574585188353?s=21
https://twitter.com/aintacrow/status/1268399564249354244?s=21
https://twitter.com/aintacrow/status/1268407556898263046?s=21
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A thread MADE for this original post and topic. Please read the whole thing if you claim to be interested in FACTS and statistics.
https://twitter.com/michaelharriot/status/1268463768285188096?s=21
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When people complain about the radical left while this kind of stuff is now considered center right…
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@benshawks08 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
When people complain about the radical left while this kind of stuff is now considered center right…
That’s not center right, even here. The GOP here is disowning this Alex Jones wannabe.
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@benshawks08 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
When people complain about the radical left while this kind of stuff is now considered center right…
Come on man, the first couple paragraphs have denunciations from Gov. Abbott and Rep. Roy (both very conservative). That’s fringe, whack job stuff. Not center right at all.
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The governor is literally calling for her resignation.
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Perhaps the flippant tone wasn’t the best approach and obviously republicans are calling for her to resign as that is the title of the link.
But ask yourself, is Donald Trump more likely to retweet the conspiracy theory or the calls for her to resign?
I’ll remember in the future that chairs of the Republican Party don’t represent republican ideas. Sorry if I offended any “center right” folks.
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I’m left and not offended I just think it was a bit of an exaggeration.
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Frankly, I believe that all opinions are equally deserving of deep examination and discussion. Science is obviously a left-wing conspiracy designed to turn man against God, and fortunately anyone seeking knowledge has been persecuted since time immemorial. Our brains are only here to fill a vacant place in the skull.
On a happier note, Pat Robertson, James Matthis, and George Will have all come out severely critical of the Orange Man (sorry for the association, Syracuse, you should have a better name anyway). And it still has little effect on Rush, Sean, Pompousass, Dr. Jeanne Pinhead, or the Even More Deplorables. Sigh…
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@benshawks08 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
Perhaps the flippant tone wasn’t the best approach and obviously republicans are calling for her to resign as that is the title of the link.
But ask yourself, is Donald Trump more likely to retweet the conspiracy theory or the calls for her to resign?
I’ll remember in the future that chairs of the Republican Party don’t represent republican ideas. Sorry if I offended any “center right” folks.
Both parties have been moving further and further away from the middle ever since post 9/11. 20 years ago, people like AOC, Beto, Ted Cruz never would have been elected to the offices they were elected to or been close to being elected to because of how far left or right their views are. 20 years ago, Bernie Sanders would have been laugh out of the race had he tried running as a democrat
I wouldn’t be too surprised to see a third party like the Libertarian Party start gaining major traction on a national level in the HoR or Senate in the next 20 years and unless both parties start moving back towards the middle.
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@benshawks08 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
Perhaps the flippant tone wasn’t the best approach and obviously republicans are calling for her to resign as that is the title of the link.
But ask yourself, is Donald Trump more likely to retweet the conspiracy theory or the calls for her to resign?
I’ll remember in the future that chairs of the Republican Party don’t represent republican ideas. Sorry if I offended any “center right” folks.
Random county chairs generally don’t represent the median or even mean view of Republicans. They tend to be a lot more radical. I’m just tired of “nut picking” where we hunt for the crazies on both sides and say they represent an entire movement.
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@FarmerJayhawk Does highlight the importance of paying attention locally as well as nationally. That “nut picking” was kind of my point. It might just be that one person never really fully represents an entire movement and instead only represents themselves. Still, glad she’s being held accountable where others with similar tendencies have not.
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@benshawks08 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@FarmerJayhawk Does highlight the importance of paying attention locally as well as nationally. That “nut picking” was kind of my point. It might just be that one person never really fully represents an entire movement and instead only represents themselves. Still, glad she’s being held accountable where others with similar tendencies have not.
Just saying, nut picking is not a great idea from the left right now when “Defund the Police” is being sold as a legitimate policy option worthy of consideration.
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@FarmerJayhawk ya the left goes from only cops should’ve have guns to we don’t need cops and back and forth a dozen times. @benshawks08 all I’ll say is come on man.
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I guess a “group” is coming to hutch tmrw or sat. They’ve been traveling around. Some places are closing early or not even opening. Saw one place boarded up by genesis. A friend told me they are not peaceful and not hutch naacp sanctioned. Bad thing she said, locals r bringing guns to protect residences.
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@Crimsonorblue22 someone is paying these guys to travel and loot.
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@kjayhawks who r they?
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Avoiding nut picking is impossible when 85% of the right wing R’pubs approve of the greatest nut of all.
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@mayjay 98% if you ask him.
@FarmerJayhawk why is defunding the police a nutty policy option. It’s in no way equivalent to conspiracy cop killings to hurt trump. You yourself said they have too much military gear and overly police certain areas did you not? Is there significant proof that skyrocketing police budgets are reducing crime?
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@benshawks08 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@mayjay 98% if you ask him.
@FarmerJayhawk why is defunding the police a nutty policy option. It’s in no way equivalent to conspiracy cop killings to hurt trump. You yourself said they have too much military gear and overly police certain areas did you not? Is there significant proof that skyrocketing police budgets are reducing crime?
Defunding means to zero out the budget. That’s bat guano insane.
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@Crimsonorblue22 not sure to be honest but someone is trying tear this country apart. All the looters that were arrested in MN were outta state, some 15 hour drives away. Definitely something fishy going on. The average person can’t afford to just up and drive that far unless someone gives them money or in most cases it sounds like they are being bused in. In most the videos I’ve seen it’s white folks wearing Antifa shirts and what not. One video I saw appeared to have no construction in the area but a pallet of bricks sitting on the side of the road like someone just had them delivered. I trust no one as per usual, always something crazy in an election year.
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@kjayhawks I’ve never said only cops should have guns. I’m actually in favor of less cops carrying guns and have been for a long time. I said my remark was snarky and a bad attempt at a light poke. Probably wasn’t the time or place. Again, sorry if I hurt your feelings. Was not my intention. I’m happy to be wrong and clearly the comment didn’t go over well. Now that summer has started and my partner is still working from home I’m getting a bit restless and a bit looser with what I decide to hit submit on moment to moment. If there is any other concession you’d like me to make or have any other demands, let me know. Happy to listen.
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Maybe the common ground that we need to move forward in this is the fact we all agree that the police were in the wrong. I’ve seen not a single person of any race defend these guys. Police brutality is a problem, for several groups of people (ask most Motor cyclists in clubs). People will be quick to point out that more whites are killed by police each year and that’s true. But percentage wise the number for Minorities is higher based on how many more whites live in this country. Think of it as an endangered species of bird, we must work hard to ensure the survival of said species. But it doesn’t mean we are gonna go after all the others. Black lives matter is standing up to save the endangered, not downgrading the rest.
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@benshawks08 I wasn’t meaning you directly, I just thought some the articles you shared were crap, that was the come on man lol. I’m not gonna argue tho, you are entitled to believe whatever someone posts or not. Like I tell everyone the internet is proven to be more fake than true. Anyone can write up anything and claim to know something they don’t. I refuse to back forth with people anymore, I’ll respect your opinion even if I disagree with it buddy.
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@kjayhawks said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@Crimsonorblue22 not sure to be honest but someone is trying tear this country apart. All the looters that were arrested in MN were outta state, some 15 hour drives away. Definitely something fishy going on. The average person can’t afford to just up and drive that far unless someone gives them money or in most cases it sounds like they are being bused in. In most the videos I’ve seen it’s white folks wearing Antifa shirts and what not. One video I saw appeared to have no construction in the area but a pallet of bricks sitting on the side of the road like someone just had them delivered. I trust no one as per usual, always something crazy in an election year.
If the video you saw is the one trump tweeted it was geotagged and debunked. Not that that’s the only video out there. The crazy rumors spreading around wichita was a confirmed white supremacist group pretending to be black lives matter. I’d be very surprised if there was some elaborate conspiracy to bring agitators to small town Kansas. More likely online trolls trying to rule up conservative white folks. (And yes those trolls could be left, right, center, or not even on the spectrum)
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@kjayhawks which links were the big offenders for you. Seriously curious of your thoughts. Not trying to start anything.
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@benshawks08 I’m not sure, I don’t personally follow any politicians on social media. That’s why I say it could anyone paying these people. Could the Democrats trying to find a way to win in November or George Soros. I’d logically say it’s less likely to be a white supremacy group or one that wants Trump to be in for four more years. What they are doing doesn’t help that cause. Could be the government wanting martial law. We may never know the truth.
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@kjayhawks To me white supremacists make the most since because of people believe the protests are violent they can more easily be discounted. And there are several confirmed cases of that happening. But agree there is plenty more going on we don’t know or understand. Some folks seem mighty pumped to have troops in the streets which is just bizarre to me.
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@kjayhawks said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
Maybe the common ground that we need to move forward in this is the fact we all agree that the police were in the wrong. I’ve seen not a single person of any race defend these guys. Police brutality is a problem, for several groups of people (ask most Motor cyclists in clubs). People will be quick to point out that more whites are killed by police each year and that’s true. But percentage wise the number for Minorities is higher based on how many more whites live in this country. Think of it as an endangered species of bird, we must work hard to ensure the survival of said species. But it doesn’t mean we are gonna go after all the others. Black lives matter is standing up to save the endangered, not downgrading the rest.
Preach!
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@benshawks08 I just don’t like the random twitter ones of people sharing what they heard or assume. As we are taking about seeing both Antifa and you seeing white supremacy groups. All we can do is speculate, no one knows for sure. That’s why I said it could be anyone.
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@kjayhawks I think some are from wichita. I’ve seen videos of cops dumping bricks off, breaking windows of store fronts and vandalizing their own cars. Have u seen the one today of them shoving an old man to the grown and knocking him out? 75 yr old. Was awful. Hard for me to stick up for some of those guys. I’m not saying that about hutch cops. So many I see on tv have their names and numbers covered. Got me scared!
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@kjayhawks hmm… not sure when I shared random twitter people sharing what they heard about antifa or WS… the link I shared on that topic was business insider and had comments from twitter spokesperson. Is that not legit?
I did post “random twitter posts” of folks critiquing the 8 cant wait policies I And bshark had shared earlier. Those weren’t so much about the validity of information in them but the validity of the criticisms of that movement which I initially endorsed.
Again, the comment about radical left v center right was in jest and agreeably possibly out of line.
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What would you guys think if your nfl team took a knee this season?
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
What would you guys think if your nfl team took a knee this season?
Fine by me. They’re private citizens and can protest however they choose.
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What about this one? Seems like a pretty well coordinated scam traced back to one group. Am I missing where this info isn’t legit? Again busloads of “antifa” are not driving state to state…
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@FarmerJayhawk would you kneel w/them?
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@FarmerJayhawk would you kneel w/them?
Probably not. I prefer to engage in other ways. To me, protest is a deeply personal thing and I can do so in more effective ways. But that’s a personal judgment and I support citizens’ First Amendment rights.
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Most people I know would come unglued. But then again, they don’t understand. They might quit watching, even those that love the chiefs. I get it, if I was a teammate, I’d stand w/them.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@kjayhawks I think some are from wichita. I’ve seen videos of cops dumping bricks off, breaking windows of store fronts and vandalizing their own cars. Have u seen the one today of them shoving an old man to the grown and knocking him out? 75 yr old. Was awful. Hard for me to stick up for some of those guys. I’m not saying that about hutch cops. So many I see on tv have their names and numbers covered. Got me scared!
The video with the 75 year old is hard to watch for so many reasons. I think it points out how policing causes good people to lose their humanity. One of the officers after the man falls starts to bend down to check on him but is immediately redirected by what has to be his superior. After that 10-15 more cops just walk by a human body clearly in distress.
I want believe that most of these officers joined because they want to help people and help their community (Even when things I have heard from my brother who is a police officer cause me to doubt that belief). Instead they are now part of a system that forces them to ignore their most human instincts to bend down and check on a bleeding old man just can’t be good for their psyche. Sooooooo much change is needed.
