Realty check my friends
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@Hawk8086 you think this team goes out night in and night out with energy, Fire, emotion? This team has zero “want to”.
Just like Self said after the game tonight. When you lose a game like they did to UK it should piss you off and this team came out flat like it didn’t give a damn all night. This has been going on all year. When you don’t have a leader this is what happens.
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I think it looks worse then could be – like Coach Self said that KU was just going through some things right now that ALOT of the other teams around the Nation have gone through. - -
It’s just that we haven’t gone through these kind of times very much 0 – so when it happens it’s magnified - -when it does happen - makes some sense - - let’s just not make it a every game occurance.
What was suppose to be a major impact for us - - is now become non existent - our INSIDE GAME - - -we came into the Season with D Lawson - - -Doke - - -McCormack even thinking Silvio – and now this - -did a complete 360 - -we WILL make it through this
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@Woodrow agree, but I also think with finished expectations losing a close game on the road in a Big 12 game isn’t the worst thing in the world. Yes they played like crap but they did compete. They just couldn’t hit shots and sometimes we get lost on D. Desire seemed there, focus and ability seemed underwhelming tonight. But I missed most of first half.
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jayballer73 said:
I think it looks worse then could be – like Coach Self said that KU was just going through some things right now that ALOT of the other teams around the Nation have gone through. - -
It’s just that we haven’t gone through these kind of times very much 0 – so when it happens it’s magnified - -when it does happen - makes some sense - - let’s just not make it a every game occurance.
What was suppose to be a major impact for us - - is now become non existent - our INSIDE GAME - - -we came into the Season with D Lawson - - -Doke - - -McCormack even thinking Silvio – and now this - -did a complete 360 - -we WILL make it through this
Free D Mack! If we are gonna lose the Big 12 then give the Big Dawg some run!
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@kjayhawks I agree with what you say, but God Almighty it hurts so bad to see these guys play like this. We are just being crapped on by the bball Gods for whatever reason. With the Doke and SDS situations. As bad as it hurts us fans, it has to be crushing to the players knowing they may be the team to break the streak.
Besides the injuries and suspensions, we seem to be regressing on the recruiting trail also. I see all these players on other teams that are doing so well that we were enticing to KU, and wonder why they are not here. Guess the FBI and NCAA crap play a bigger part than I realize. I just hope our tradition and success will help get us back on track into elite status. Really down but not giving up. Not liking this knot in my gut, tears on my pillow, and pain in my heart.
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@Big-Clyde52 that’s honestly my worry that this down year turns into 3 or 4. I think there’s a strong chance that happens, especially not knowing what the NCAA will do with us. I’ll just put it this way if something happens to us while a list of Nike schools doesn’t even looked into I’ll be done with College Basketball. I already think pro sports are rigged and everyone alive knows you dont get top 10 players every years like Dook or UK without paying.
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I’m fed up with Grimes’ lack of effort.
If you have the game recorded, just watch Grimes every time a shot goes up. It’s pathetic.
He is the king of “just standing there.” You could watch the first 10 minutes and see what I’m talking about. He … just … stands … there.
One rebound in 20 minutes. Think about that.
Think about this. Agbaji had as many rebounds (7) tonight as Grimes’ has had in the last five games combined. Just a quirk? Nope. Grimes five games prior to that? Right, seven rebounds.
I don’t understand. Do we demand effort, or don’t we?
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@Woodrow I thought only Ochai had fire tonight, Texas was the first to the floor and just out hustled us to several rebounds. One Dedric literally just stood and watched a put back, didnt even move. No more transfers please, maybe if we can only get guys ranked in the 100s, they will at least go hard.
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HighEliteMajor said:
I’m fed up with Grimes’ lack of effort.
If you have the game recorded, just watch Grimes every time a shot goes up. It’s pathetic.
He is the king of “just standing there.” You could watch the first 10 minutes and see what I’m talking about. He … just … stands … there.
One rebound in 20 minutes. Think about that.
Think about this. Agbaji had as many rebounds (7) tonight as Grimes’ has had in the last five games combined. Just a quirk? Nope. Grimes five games prior to that? Right, seven rebounds.
I don’t understand. Do we demand effort, or don’t we?
I wondered ALL dam year what the deal was with Quentin’s rebounding effort - -for a kid his size - - pretty sad. - - One bright note – Dam looks like Obaji is gonna be really good - -trying to find some kind of positive out of this mess.
I mean 1st start even though he has been solid before - -but tonight - -I mean look he had 24 points - - 7 rebounds - - I think they said a couple of steals and a block. - -I would say that is a pretty solid full game debut. - -Like they said just now on post game - - we need a leader - -we have no leader. - - Last year it was Devonte - - - the year before Frank - -we just don’t have that true leader - -for one. - -I know more problems then that but yet. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@Big-Clyde52 If all of the players had been here for 1,2,3 or even 4 years, it might really hurt their pride knowing they are in danger of ending the streak. However, with all of the new people playing this year, maybe it doesn’t really bother them as much as we think. Nobody likes to lose but right now we do not seem to be truly invested in doing all of the little things it takes to win. We have very little room for error, and teams are exposing this right now.
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The boxscore is depressing lol, Dedric had 13 pointv off of 15 shots, lightfoot and Moore combined for 4 fouls and zero other stats in 20 minutes. Outside of Ochai and Devon they are pretty ugly. Some hinted at it being just shooting but we shot better than Texas. Turnovers were even, heck they only out rebounded us by 4. Them hitting 4 more 3s and several at very timely moments was a big difference. Its amazing how much better ISU and Texas have shot the 3 vs us compared to anyone else, we are going to guard better out there. When Dedric isn’t hitting we need to just let Vick and Ochai fire away from distance.
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As much as we complain about Vick, we aren’t .500 without him. Q is really a guy that’s hard to say anything positive about and I hate because he seems like a good kid. He has a ton of similarities as Wigs, good kid, parents were both good athletes. He just doesnt have a fiery mindset.
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We are not hitting on all cylinders in so many. ways. Play hard for 25 sec and then give up an easy basket, watching an opponent rebound, not ready on a missed free throw and get out-hustled to the ball, not taking one more step to stop a pass that ends up as a 3 pointer, 3 times not getting a shot off before the shot clock hits 0, etc. Whether or not these errors are due to attitude, lack of necessary desire, lack of effort or uncertainty, who knows for sure? The sky isn’t falling when it is little things here and there that stop us. We are definitely searching for an identity and for leadership; Coach Self has his work cut out to get this team where he wants it to be. I have confidence in him because we have been in similar situations.
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Lol moore played tonight. Must be desperate
It’s a good thing I missed the game
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From dg, Everybody take a chill pill
… went thru the same thing last year . Losing at home in non conference / early in conference … you gotta go thru the dark to get to the light !! #BELI4VE
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not same team. No DG on this team
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That is the worst a ku team has looked since the tcu ymca game. We played better the night after TRobs mom died and everyone was shell shocked and hung over with grief.
Losing Dok is proving more critical than we thought. We are a bad team right now. 3 shot clock violations? Come on. I bet Frank and devonte didn’t combine for 3 in 3 years. Imagine if Ochai was not playing how ugly this would be. You cannot lose games like this and WV and win conference.
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Self can coach up effort, defense, and rebounding. He cant coach up shooting. Teams have finally figured out that crowding Dedric and letting everyone except Vick shoot 3s is the best defensive strategy. Unless guys can start hitting the outside shot consistently to open things up every game will be a struggle.
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@BigBad - Well, he can coach up shooting. However, your point is that he can’t coach up shooting NOW. And you’re right. No magic potion there.
But he can create looks and opportunity. He can script to get players in position to be successful. He can focus on getting Vick and Agbaji those critical looks from three. That’s his job right NOW. That’s what is critical right NOW. Both of those guys can turn this around. They both can shoot. Dotson can get his looks on normal reversal or kick out as a PG many times does.
This is not difficult. But it requires Self to be hands on, and focus on the key elements that will make this team successful.
This is a coaching moment. One where Bill Self needs to step up.
There was an article about how time was spent with Garrett and his shooting over this past summer. And he still looks like a seventh grader shooting the ball, form-wise. The poor form is my concern.
Even after the work with Doke on free throw shooting, the form was still poor. And this was after a wasted summer in 2017 where nothing was done.
I know we’ve seen improvement from many shooters over the years. Sometimes guys just don’t have the touch. Much of it is God given/genetics. But as coaches, they should demand excellent form from those that struggle.
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I will refer to this year’s team as “The Home Boys” until they take on a “Road Warriors” mentality and stop taking punches and deliver some haymakers!
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@HighEliteMajor This is the same Bill Self that decided Ochai wasn’t one of the best 9-10 players on the team initially. I’m not hopeful these days.
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@BShark I don’t think that is true. Self said this last night and I think it is 100% true IF Doke doesn’t get hurt this team is 22-2 probably and ranked in the top 3. His injury changed everything for this team.
I think Self thought Ochai would have been a “luxury” not a necessity on this years team.
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Don’t forget he had a stress fracture
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Woodrow said:
@BShark I don’t think that is true. Self said this last night and I think it is 100% true IF Doke doesn’t get hurt this team is 22-2 probably and ranked in the top 3. His injury changed everything for this team.
I think Self thought Ochai would have been a “luxury” not a necessity on this years team.
He’s better than Grimes in every way though. Better than KJ too.
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@BShark I don’t think in Self’s wildest dreams he could have imagined this from Q. He was awesome when he coached him for team USA, and I assume he was great in Summer workouts. I mean the kid was a consensus top 10 pick before the season.
I think there is also some politics going on with Q and KJ to some sense.
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@BShark Hard to imagine, I know, but I’m giving Self a full pass on that one. It’s hard to imagine Grimes being so bad so far and KJ being really sub-par. If Grimes was near expected and KJ just reasonable, and if we still had Doke, I can understand that decision. Vick coming back. Garrett a relied upon cog. Thinking the lower ranked freshman would struggle for minutes was probably reasonable. It’s his job to project to game action, but circumstances do support the decision. As for Moore, well, you had that pegged.
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Fair points. I think we all expected Grimes to be much better than this. Grimes just isn’t even mentally in games lately. He doesn’t contribute ANYTHING. It’s crazy, really. Even he were half of what Self thought, this team would be a lot better off.
KJ…KJ is really interesting. I thought he sucked based on watching him at Memphis. I posted as such. Then there were reports that KJ was doing great in practice and he was expected to compete for a starting spot. I should have stuck to my guns, but I was hoping he had improved during his year off.
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Unfortunate reality but we have had a number of setbacks. The main issues to me are below. Some out of our control and others that are hard to explain. These are the difference from us being a top 5 team and the current team we are. We are really a top 25 team at best. I hate to say it, but we seem to have 3 guys on our entire team who are putting up numbers game in game out. Dotson, Lawson and Ochai. Vick and Garrett are mercurial players on offense. At least Garrett gives us exceptional D every night.
Doke - Expected to be a 14 and 8 guy game in game out. Out for the season…again.
Silvio - Expected to be a 10 and 10 guy. Out for most of the season if not the entire season with eligibility issues…again.
Grimes - Expected to be a dynamic scorer. Top 10 talent. Potential lottery pick before he put on a jersey. Has had three good games all year and at least 5 games where he may as well not have played. Maybe the most disappointing guy in years. Selby level disappointment.
Vick - Has been what we all know him to be. A guy who can be incredible and a guy who can be flat out awful on and off the court. Unfortunately we have seen a bit to much of the “bad” Vick even though he won us a few games by himself early in the year.
Dotson - To me, he has exceeded expectations. Great ball handler. Great FT shooter down the stretch. Could be a Jayhawk to remember.
Ochai - Goes without saying that he has been incredible once the redshirt was pulled.
Lawson - Averaging nearly 20 and 10 a game as expected. Our best player by far.
KJ - Expected to be a contributor and has been a non factor.
Garrett - A defensive specialist who has been much better than expected on offense lately. I still think he could win us a game in March.
Moore - Expected to be a contributor and has been a non factor.
Big Dave - Not sure what we thought. I think we all assumed he would ride the bench behind Doke and Silvio. Now they are gone and he still rides the bench.
Mitch - Pretty much the exact same as Dave.
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On McCormack, he’s really not that bad.
PER is 16.4, fourth best on the team (Doke is #1; Dedric #2; Agbaji #3 in limited time). Rebounds 12.7 per 40 minutes, Dedric 13.4 per 40 minutes.
To me, he’s a guy that if you invest minutes, you will have that better product in March.
Dotson, Agbaji, Vick, Dedric, McCormack. This is reacting to what I’ve seen the past two games.
See how Grimes does coming off the bench. We know Garrett can function in that role. Play 3/2 as much as we can with Dedric and McCormack in. Only use Mitch if really needed.
This seems a better option than what we’ve seen, and we can have a better presence on the boards – which is helpful to a poor offensive team, both in creating some additional possessions offensively, and endng the other team’s possessions as soon as possible.
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@BShark Grimes is truly a conundrum - a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma…Other than shooting the ball (with limited success), he appears incapable of or unwilling to impact the game in ANY meaningful, that is positive, way.
Re-watch some of the games and focus on him. He literally just stands around most of the time. He is a matador on defense when the guy he is guarding drives on him. He doesn’t get into rebounding position or put a body on anyone. When he drives, he’ll fall away or throw up a floater to avoid contact.
A couple of stats are really telling. In 536 minutes, he has exactly 9 offensive rebounds. He’s 6’5" and decent build for heaven’s sake - on a team that needs everyone to crash the boards. Ochai has one more in about 1/4 the minutes. Heck, Moore has 6 in half the minutes of Grimes. The other is steals - just 7 in 536 minutes. Vick, who is no defensive wizard, has 26. Garrett has 35. Moore has 13, again in about half the minutes. Those are effort stats.
Not clear to me if this is correctable - may be just his DNA to play this passively, at least against guys that are going to be as big, fast and strong as he is (in contrast to HS)…
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I’ve watched Grimes extensively this year. He seemed to lose his aggressiveness as he started picking up cheap fouls, and hasn’t gotten it back at all. He just seems to be passive in every facet of the game. Rarely drives to the basket (even though that’s probably one of his top skills). Rarely crashes the glass. Rarely pressures the ball defensively. It’s like he is avoiding contact at all costs. I don’t know how you fix that.This may just be a lost season for Q.
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@justanotherfan it has been awhile since he’s had an O foul. He’s sat so much, I don’t think he’s been in foul trouble, has he?
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@Crimsonorblue22 I just looked – He’s had four fouls, four times. Once he had four fouls in 16 minutes. Other three times 26, 31, and 35 minutes. So no real foul trouble other than that. Never fouled out.
The guy is just not aggressive for some reason.
Scores 21 vs. MSU in game 1, national stage, looks great, and then a downward spiral with a few blips of positivity.
Maybe girlfriend problems? Homesick? Never know.
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@HighEliteMajor I meant no offensive fouls lately and those 4 game fouls were early?
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@HighEliteMajor Just like with Mickleson and other bigs in the past, it seems like if Dave got more consistent minutes in logical sub flow stretches, he would perform with more confidence and consistency. The in 2 min, out for 30 in for 1 makes it really hard to do much of anything.
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@justanotherfan Protecting the merch a la Wiggs? But with much less impact (OK, about zero impact!).
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Here is a pretty good article that breaks down all the problems on this years team.
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The truth is that regardless of the issues this KU team has, they will still likely win the Big 12 as long as they stay undefeated at home and don’t drop another bad loss on the road. The Big 12 champ probably ends up with six losses this season. I think KU can find a way through the rest of this season with only three more road losses, so they can still probably tie for the conference crown if they hold at AFH.
At this point, Self might as well figure out if he can get Grimes jumpstarted. That’s literally the only way out of this current mess. Grimes is the only player on the roster that has the talent to change the trajectory of this team (Round of 32 exit). KU may need to experiment with Grimes handling the ball more so that he can start getting downhill. Too often he has been a non factor standing on the weak side of the floor beyond the three point line, neither crashing the boards or getting quality touches.
This season is lost if Grimes doesn’t get rolling, so everything that happens over the next four weeks should be focused on doing just that. Garrett doesn’t have the top end offensive talent to do that. Vick is a guy that benefits from others getting him open shots, so he can’t be relied on to create those looks himself. Dotson is probably playing about where you would have expected him to.
This is about getting high level production from Quentin Grimes. Its the only way to save the season.
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@Woodrow Thanks for sharing this article. It is pretty spot on. The problem is simple. Lack of high level talent coupled with the lack of upperclassmen leadership. Typically the best college basketball teams either have young talent or junior/senior leaders. This KU team has neither. All that said, we have Bill Self and he rules the Big 12 every year until he doesn’t.
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@justanotherfan You had me feeling all optimistic about still having a legit shot at #15, but then you had to kill the buzz by saying it was up to Grimes to make that happen.
Could it please be up to Ochai or Big Dave instead? Mitch?
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@Woodrow Good article, I was talking about this earlier in the season. Garretts man can basically play a zone defense and protect an area of the court without having to worry about him hitting 3s. Now teams have taken it to the next level by leaving him open for jump shots time and time again but they are staying 5 or 6 feet off of him to prevent the drive now to. Vick has seen guy follow him and never leave for the same reason because Garretts man can always help. Vick needs to learn to move better without the ball and drive it more. Grimes has a similar problem, can’t hit the jumpshots consistently so teams are sagging off to prevent him from driving or causing the high number of charges he has had this season. Have one shooter and one good big is a dream for a defense at this level. Some follows the shooter and you can have anyone else help or double down low. Ochai maybe the key to 15 if he is able to hit 3s consistently and give defenses another guy that they have to keep track of or as @justanotherfan was saying, Grimes wakes up and starts playing better. I honestly think Grimes isn’t near as athletic as we thought he would be and thats half the issue.
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@kjayhawks We’ve seen the voices that have really supported Garrett now not contest this failing element of his game – meaning, I hear no argument that this is not a critical weakness that negatively impacts our team. Makes me wonder where this reasonableness was from some during the Jamari Traylor discussions when he was in the 4 spot, out on the floor (or the “high” in the high/low), even when photos of game action demonstrated the same thing.
The thing is, Garrett is a much better player than Traylor. Further, we need Garrett to play. We didn’t need Traylor to play.
The impetus is on Self to figure this all out offensively. I’m confident in that right now. February seems to be Self’s best month.
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@HighEliteMajor Right Garrett has to be on the floor and I wasn’t trying to make it sound as if he shouldn’t. But yes, Self and Co need to sit down and figure out some new plays and a new style of offense to make this work.
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Wouldn’t those dribble drives to the basket from Dotson and Garrett work a little better if they had a Big Dave sealing off a path in the lane to the basket?
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@KUSTEVE Uh, we agree … mark that on the calendar. Play the man.
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I think Grimes is being overwhelmed by the quickness of the game. He was guarding a player a few games back, trying hard to stay in front of his guy, and he stuck his leg out, and the guy blew right past HIM. By the time he got he got his foot down, the guy had already went by him. If he can’t keep up with the speed of the college game, how is that going to work for him going pro?
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@KUSTEVE 100% accurate.
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Just go watch WVU game winning hoop – Grimes go blown by at the top of the key. Like he was standing still.
