Lagerald Vick: Team Cancer?



  • Not outside of the realm of possibility.

    The last few games now have been awful from him. Turnovers, terrible shot selection, passes that even when they get to a team mate are not at a good spot which kills a potential play, loafing on D, loafing off the ball offensively etc…

    It’s no surprise that with Vick playing like this KU is 1-2 (EMU doesn’t count) with the only win being against a bad OU team. Either Vick needs to pull himself together or get put on the bench.



  • That’s why I think it was a mutual decision not to come back.



  • Some guys are just boneheads. I doubt Self would hesitate to pull the trigger if true. But we aren’t going anywhere without a functioning Vick. He’s critical.



  • I’d say his mother might be the only one to get thru to him. That rebound kinda sealed the deal for me.



  • I think cancer is too strong. To me, a cancer infects the whole team, leading to its demise. Clearly Vick is a head case, and unpredictable. But is he the reason everyone else is playing so poorly? If he were truly cancerous, last year’s team would not have played in the Final 4.

    I don’t think he will be the go-to guy we were hoping for based on his performance early this season, but I also don’t think his flightiness will prevent the rest of the team from starting to play together as a team. He may not be the answer, but he’s also not the whole problem.



  • Didn’t we have this convo last year?



  • The only way we survive with a non-functional Vick is with a functional Grimes, and today gives a bit of hope in that dept. By survive I mean our Target baseline… winning the Big 12.

    A Dotson, Grimes, Garrett, Dedric, Udoka lineup is still capable.



  • @tundrahok but, as a senior if he can’t be a leader, we might fall apart?



  • I have to disagree. This team is still figuring out its identity. Self let the team vote to bring him back. If he was a cancer, why would the team bring him back? Q’s early struggles are not Vick’s fault. If anyone here didn’t think a game like this was iniveitable, I (am sorry but I have to) seriously question the depth of your insight. This team had been relying on Vick, D Lawson, Doka waaay to much. We have been squeaking out close wins at home for sometime. This offense is as stale of an offense as I can remember in recent memory. IMO, this is the best possible outcome of this game (outside of blowing the doors off ISU). Hilton is a tough place to play. Many others will loose. You better believe Self is going to have the teams ear more than had we squeaked out another W. As long as Dok come back, I’m not even upset about him sitting out. This team needs to learn how to play without the cheat code. Remember, It’s a marathon, not a sprint. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve recently begun to worry about the ceiling of this team come March, but it’s early January. AFH is still the best home court advantage in the country. Let’s not hit the panick button just yet. Rock Chalk



  • The offense being stale is Self’s fault. He recruited players that can’t shoot and players to force the two big system again, when none of the bigs can shoot. It’s a losing effort in modern basketball.



  • BShark said:

    The offense being stale is Self’s fault. He recruited players that can’t shoot and players to force the two big system again, when none of the bigs can shoot. It’s a losing effort in modern basketball.

    https://kuhoops.com/ku-basketball-news/223979465/

    Or is it a mental approach.



  • That has been an issue with Self for a long time imo.



  • @approxinfinity That’s a huge gamble with Vick. I think as it was mentioned, you’re way better with a bit more EXPERIENCED Vick with a little bit of a “mind” issue that can produce almost at will. Or, you go with an extremely EXPERIENCED Garrett that is horribly inconsistent and isn’t much of a threat from the outside.

    At least with Vick in the game, teams MUST respect his shooting. Otherwise, teams are going to pack it in everytime. As for Grimes? I think it’s too much right now. He clearly can’t handle the pressure. He is not a take over guy. I think he could, can, and possibly might. But right now, he’s just not quite where he could be and hopefully where he wants to be as a “go to” player.

    This team has SO much potential, but right now they just aren’t quite together as pieces. We all want the parts to become a whole. I’m sorry, we must have Doke in beast mode. DLaw must work the “high low” offense to perfection for us to have a chance inside. But if the perimeter does not make teams pay, we won’t have the season we all want, that baseline #15 win.

    Dotson

    Grimes

    Vick

    DLaw - I would tend to have KJ in with his brother for some bonus chemistry.

    Doke/Big Mac

    Small ball:

    Dotson

    Grimes

    Garrett

    KJ

    DLaw

    Away games are going to be twice as nasty until this team finds themselves. Lastly, I think the B12 Champion will have a few more losses this year. We may suffer 3-4 more losses on the road, possibly more at this rate. We may even see a sweep by TT and ISU in the PHOG if this team doesn’t play to their super high potential. Then again, this team may win every game in the PHOG, which is likely, and lose 1-2 more on the road. I see the TT game in Lubbock and even the game in Stillwater as a possible traditional loss. Stillwater is Self’s cryptonite.



  • I expect KU to take a earned drop and punishment in the polls. We will be fortunate to be in the top 10 after this loss. If you want to argue ISU’s underrated play, then they are most definitely way underrated and terribly under ranked. Now, KU gets to face the consequence of their play. They need to take their medicine because it seems there’s a lot to take this season. UGH.



  • @Crimsonorblue22 Certainly senior leadership is lacking. Vick is our lone senior, and as a multi-year starter he should provide that leadership, but he’s not going to. I just think failing to lead is different than sabotaging the team, which is implied by the term cancer.



  • BShark said:

    The offense being stale is Self’s fault. He recruited players that can’t shoot and players to force the two big system again, when none of the bigs can shoot. It’s a losing effort in modern basketball.

    We’re undefeated starting two bigs.



  • @Bwag You’re spot on. All the current problems with our team are mental. That’s something a good coach can fix, and we happen to have a hall-of-fame coach. We’d all prefer the fix happen sooner rather than later, but we just need patience. Last year’s team didn’t gel until late in the season, and we were a lot more mature than this year’s team. I think we’ll get there.

    Great article too, thanks for sharing.



  • FarmerJayhawk said:

    BShark said:

    The offense being stale is Self’s fault. He recruited players that can’t shoot and players to force the two big system again, when none of the bigs can shoot. It’s a losing effort in modern basketball.

    We’re undefeated starting two bigs.

    Sure but the team still hasn’t played well in those games. Doke is very good when he is able to play.



  • @tundrahok does the team follow his lack of effort? I hope dedric steps up! I know Mitch would but he’s not out there. I wish d dot could.



  • @Crimsonorblue22 Well, that’s a good point. Laziness could be infectious. I think our whole team kind of quit trying in the last several minutes of the game yesterday, and that was the most disappointing thing I saw.

    But Lagerald’s issue is usually lack of focus more than lack of effort, it seems to me. Self has often commented that players are putting forth the effort, but just aren’t clued in to what they should be doing.

    Yesterday was different. The lack of effort by Vick and several others stood out. It was pretty clear they had kind of given up. But that’s not what we usually see.

    I’ve been surprised by some recent box scores at the number of minutes Vick played because I just didn’t remember him. He didn’t do anything memorable, either good or bad. I don’t think that’s cancerous, just cluelessness. Lack of positive impact differs from a negative impact. Sins of omission rather than commission. Still sins, perhaps, but to me a bit different.

    Yesterday, though, most of the team was guilty of both.



  • BShark said:

    FarmerJayhawk said:

    BShark said:

    The offense being stale is Self’s fault. He recruited players that can’t shoot and players to force the two big system again, when none of the bigs can shoot. It’s a losing effort in modern basketball.

    We’re undefeated starting two bigs.

    Sure but the team still hasn’t played well in those games. Doke is very good when he is able to play.

    I think going undefeated against the toughest schedule in America is playing pretty well, but to each their own.



  • @BShark I think our crappy play is more a team effort, but 7 turnovers when you play off the ball is pretty hard to explain. I keep thinking KJ is sitting over on the bench, and the few minutes he got ( except for that stupid behind the back pass on the fast break ) were better than what Vick played the whole game. Vick is not a hero, and I think him trying to be one hurts more than it helps.



  • He’s had a rough stretch forsure but I don’t think he’s a cancer to the team. Dotson and him I believe have double digit turnovers combined the pasted two games, obviously Dotson being a freshman gives him a little bit of leeway. This teams has a decent ceiling with a healthy Doke and Grimes/Vick to their capabilities. We know what we are going to get outta every else. I still think if Doke is able to return and Self shortens the bench we will look much better. No reason at this point for Mitch, Charlie and KJ to be seeing more than garbage time. Mitch maybe debatable but David playing more and developing helps more than Mitch being out there IMO.



  • Doke also changes the pace of the game because he is so efficient. We get a bucket and can set our defense instead of the up and down game we got caught in last night. He’s also our best rim protector. He may very well be 20 points over our current replacement players. We will see when ISU comes back to play in Lawrence.



  • @Kcmatt7 Uh, no we won’t. Doke’s done. Nice thought though. Ugh.



  • So has anyone heard of this injury? Is it from dunking? I thought Self said he got hit.



  • KUSTEVE said:

    @BShark I think our crappy play is more a team effort, but 7 turnovers when you play off the ball is pretty hard to explain. I keep thinking KJ is sitting over on the bench, and the few minutes he got ( except for that stupid behind the back pass on the fast break ) were better than what Vick played the whole game. Vick is not a hero, and I think him trying to be one hurts more than it helps.

    I mentioned earlier in this thread. - -just curious I know might be insane but at this point it might also help some too. - -Start McCormack at the 5 - -like HEM mentioned and I totally agree with , but I was thinking with Vick in one of his swoons - not being seen on the floor doing his disappearing act yet again - -Ok so everyone say Garrett is an offensive liability - -so at least for the moment - let’s start KJ - -he was decent at Memphis can score - -at least keep the opponents honest - have to play us 5-5 - -instead of them sagging with Garrett on the Floor Bring Vick in to back up KJ - for right now anyways - -maybe Vick be more inspired coming off the bench - -start KJ at the 3 - -Have Garret come of the bench to back up Dotson & Grimes - at this point couldn’t hurt - -I know he is more of an offensive threat then Marcus - -he rebounds the ball decent - so he gives us more height - -more rebounding and can score better then Marcus - -what ya think? - I know it’s not the pemament solution but hell can’t hurt and try


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