New 2019 Recruiting
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Ryan on the Phog doesnt think Achiuwa ends up at KU and even said he may not visit… interesting twist to pay attention to.
He does think if Miller gets canned at Arizona that KU Could circle back to Nnaji if needed. He also mentioned Josh Green but that’s like saying Wiseman would have gone to KU, a complete joke
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If we don’t get any defects from the coaching changes, I fully expect to take some transfers… Feels more likely by the day.
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@Kcmatt7 I think he would be a match up nightmare for teams. Let’s sign him today. Like right now.
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Precious is in LFK.
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Grad Transfers and Transfers are okay, I just dont want a team of them like this season. A 3 star recruit would could develop would’ve been much better than Charlie in the long run.
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@FarmerJayhawk I’m not hopeful but it never hurts to get a visit.
@kjayhawks Charlie was a 4* recruit tbf. Transfers have been really hit or miss. Not that my opinion on it matters but I’d say 1 max per cycle and preferably not every time.
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Malik and Dedric were great. Important for both teams.
Charlie was an emergency.
But overall, we just need to recruit better. If Bill is going to swing for the fences with big name Spring signees, he better land them.
The emergency takes hardly ever pan out.
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Evan Daniels put a CB pick in of Duke for Hurt today…
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Wish I could say I’m shocked by this. But I just think you look at what Self has done with potential OADs compared to K and Cal and he’s clearly in 3rd place. That makes the decision much easier.
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@Kcmatt7 so grimes would be doing much better under those 2? I think the ones they get could’ve skipped right to the league. We generally don’t get the top 10.
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Kcmatt7 said:
Wish I could say I’m shocked by this. But I just think you look at what Self has done with potential OADs compared to K and Cal and he’s clearly in 3rd place. That makes the decision much easier.
I won’t be even a little bit surprised if Hurt ends up going elsewhere. The threat of a probation probably isn’t helping recruiting at all…
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@Crimsonorblue22 It doesn’t matter what Grimes would have done with the other two. It only matters what he has done under Self and the stigma that comes with it. Along with Cliff, Diallo, Selby, Henry and really just most of the OADs we’ve had. It is just the current perception, and it’s hard to argue with.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@Crimsonorblue22 It doesn’t matter what Grimes would have done with the other two. It only matters what he has done under Self and the stigma that comes with it. Along with Cliff, Diallo, Selby, Henry and really just most of the OADs we’ve had. It is just the current perception, and it’s hard to argue with.
Yeah, fair or not this is what the view is.
And there was an article today on the Athletic slobbering all over Calipari and how players improve massively under him.
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BShark said:
Kcmatt7 said:
Wish I could say I’m shocked by this. But I just think you look at what Self has done with potential OADs compared to K and Cal and he’s clearly in 3rd place. That makes the decision much easier.
I won’t be even a little bit surprised if Hurt ends up going elsewhere. The threat of a probation probably isn’t helping recruiting at all…
If I were a recruit I’d be worried about a post-season ban as well. Especially as a OAD where this may be your only chance at one.
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Kcmatt7 said:
BShark said:
Kcmatt7 said:
Wish I could say I’m shocked by this. But I just think you look at what Self has done with potential OADs compared to K and Cal and he’s clearly in 3rd place. That makes the decision much easier.
I won’t be even a little bit surprised if Hurt ends up going elsewhere. The threat of a probation probably isn’t helping recruiting at all…
If I were a recruit I’d be worried about a post-season ban as well. Especially as a OAD where this may be your only chance at one.
No doubt kids are worried about it. It’s the uncertainty that is a killer. Once all the dust actually settles I trust KU will get it rolling again.
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BShark said:
Kcmatt7 said:
@Crimsonorblue22 It doesn’t matter what Grimes would have done with the other two. It only matters what he has done under Self and the stigma that comes with it. Along with Cliff, Diallo, Selby, Henry and really just most of the OADs we’ve had. It is just the current perception, and it’s hard to argue with.
Yeah, fair or not this is what the view is.
And there was an article today on the Athletic slobbering all over Calipari and how players improve massively under him.
I have not read the article, but I find that amusing. PJ Washington has been incredible this year and I would assume that is mainly what the article is about, but besides the Wall, AD, Cousins type players who has gone to UK and blown up and gotten so much better. I am sure there are a few, but what about the Harrison Twins, Dakari Johnson, Marcus Lee, Trey Lyles, Weynen Gabriel, Sasha Jones, etc…
I feel like Cal gets a pass because of all of the top end talent he gets that are going to be great no matter where they go.
Maybe that is just my perception. He has had a lot more bust then people realize I guess is my point.
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BShark said:
Kcmatt7 said:
Wish I could say I’m shocked by this. But I just think you look at what Self has done with potential OADs compared to K and Cal and he’s clearly in 3rd place. That makes the decision much easier.
I won’t be even a little bit surprised if Hurt ends up going elsewhere. The threat of a probation probably isn’t helping recruiting at all…
that’s EXACTLY what it is - -this FBI crap has kicked us right square in the nads - - - HARD
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Woodrow said:
BShark said:
Kcmatt7 said:
@Crimsonorblue22 It doesn’t matter what Grimes would have done with the other two. It only matters what he has done under Self and the stigma that comes with it. Along with Cliff, Diallo, Selby, Henry and really just most of the OADs we’ve had. It is just the current perception, and it’s hard to argue with.
Yeah, fair or not this is what the view is.
And there was an article today on the Athletic slobbering all over Calipari and how players improve massively under him.
I have not read the article, but I find that amusing. PJ Washington has been incredible this year and I would assume that is mainly what the article is about, but besides the Wall, AD, Cousins type players who has gone to UK and blown up and gotten so much better. I am sure there are a few, but what about the Harrison Twins, Dakari Johnson, Marcus Lee, Trey Lyles, Weynen Gabriel, Sasha Jones, etc…
I feel like Cal gets a pass because of all of the top end talent he gets that are going to be great no matter where they go.
Maybe that is just my perception. He has had a lot more bust then people realize I guess is my point.
What is the success rate compared to Self though. Of course they both have had their busts. But Self OADs do not seem to have much staying power in the League. And had Self landed some of the guys Cal got, of course it probably changes perception. But these are the results:
- Josh Jackson - Bust - Soon to be wash out
- Selby - Bust - Washed out
- Diallo - Bust - I find it hard to believe he ever makes it
- Alexander - Bust - Washed out
- Preston - Bust (Whether fair or not) - Washed out
- Henry - Bust - Washed out
- Wiggins - Underacheiving
- Embiid - Stud
- Selden - Bust - Will wash out
- Bragg - Bust
- Grimes - Bust
- B-Mac - Bust - About to wash out
- Oubre - Not a bust but not a hit
Cal
- Kat - Hit
- Cousins - Hit
- Monk - Hit
- Booker - Hit
- Wall - Hit
- Bledsoe - Hit
- Rose - Hit (Still falls under Cal)
- Fox - Hit
- SGA - Hit
- MKG - Hit
- AD - Hit
- Knight - Hit
- Knox - Seems like a hit
- Kanter - Hit
- Murray - Hit
- Randle - Hit
- Diallo - Hit
- Noel - Underachieved - Still in the league though
- Skal - Underachieved - Still in the league though
- Bam - Seems like he’ll stick
Add in all the misses from transfers and what not, but that is still one hell of a track record.
K
- Ingram - Hit
- Giles - Meh. Underacheive but still in the league
- Kyrie - Hit
- Bagley - Hit
- Tyus - Hit
- Parker - Hit (Knee injury derailed)
- Jahlil - Underachieve
- Rivers - Hit
- Winslow - Hit
- Trent - Miss - Will wash out
- Duval - Miss - Will wash out
- Carter JR - Hit
- Jackson - Miss - Will wash out
Still, a better track record than Self. Not near as good as Cal, but still better.
Just how I see it at least.
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I think it’s safe to say Giles was derailed by injuries too.
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I’d even say Oubre was a hit, but I don’t believe Self had anything to do with it. Seemed more like he botched that situation than is the reason Oubre has had a decent career.
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@Kcmatt7 Why is Josh a bust and MKG a "hit. Go look at their stats. Then Oubre being a hit has nothing to do with Self? You are trying WAY too hard to make your point.
Also, I am not arguing that Self is on par with K and Cal just that Cal’s record is overstated because he landed can’t miss guys.
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@Woodrow Josh is a bust because he’s definitely not getting a 2nd contract. Kidd Gilchrist will have made $60M in 7 seasons by the time he washes out. IF he washes out. MKG is better from advanced stats metrics as well. Josh will be lucky to ever have a PER as good as MKG’s worst.
Sure, Oubre was successful because of Self. I can concede that point and still think my point is correct. The reason I don’t attribute it to Self is because Self barely played him to start the season and he struggled mightily his first two years in the league.
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LOL @ Josh not getting a second contract. Come on.
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Sure was fun beating duke last year! Great coaching job!
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@Woodrow The Suns will not be giving JJ a 2nd contract. It’s almost guaranteed at this point.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@Woodrow The Suns will not be giving JJ a 2nd contract. It’s almost guaranteed at this point.
You said he would not be getting a second contract. Insinuating he will be out of the league when his first one runs out. The Suns might not sign him and if he was smart he wouldn’t resign with that dumpster fire, but he will sign a second contract with a team.
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@Woodrow Ok, we’ll see. He is not that far from washing out. His PER is ranked 300th out of 388 players who have played in 20 or more games so far this season. He is 226th out of 266 players who have played 750 or more minutes this season. He is 250th out of those same 266 players in True Shooting Percentage. He is a 3 and D wing with no 3. I very much see him ending up overseas without improvement.
But whatever, it doesn’t matter. He was the 4th pick in the draft and he is unlikely to get meaningful minutes anywhere after his stint with the Suns. And even if I count him as a “hit,” it’s semantics at this point. It barely changes the list. All I was trying to do was put this out there visually. We can nitpick my list all we want, but Bill has not had the success that the other two have had with guys who had OAD potential coming into college. It is the perception, even if the recruits we have landed aren’t the same caliber as some of these others for Duke or UK.
All I’m trying to say, I can see why a recruit and their family would pick UK or Duke over KU if their child has a shot at being a OAD player.
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The biggest stat not listed is that Dook and Uks classes are better than KUs almost every single year.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@Woodrow Ok, we’ll see. He is not that far from washing out. His PER is ranked 300th out of 388 players who have played in 20 or more games so far this season. He is 226th out of 266 players who have played 750 or more minutes this season. He is 250th out of those same 266 players in True Shooting Percentage. He is a 3 and D wing with no 3. I very much see him ending up overseas without improvement.
But whatever, it doesn’t matter. He was the 4th pick in the draft and he is unlikely to get meaningful minutes anywhere after his stint with the Suns. And even if I count him as a “hit,” it’s semantics at this point. It barely changes the list. All I was trying to do was put this out there visually. We can nitpick my list all we want, but Bill has not had the success that the other two have had with guys who had OAD potential coming into college. It is the perception, even if the recruits we have landed aren’t the same caliber as some of these others for Duke or UK.
All I’m trying to say, I can see why a recruit and their family would pick UK or Duke over KU if their child has a shot at being a OAD player.
I agree with that! I was never arguing that Self is even close when it comes to those other two programs when it comes to OAD.
I was simply saying that Cal gets the benefit of the doubt most of the time because of the Wall, Cousins, AD, of the world. He doesn’t have very many TRob, Withey, Tyshawn, Frank, Graham players.
He isn’t some world beater when it comes to developing players.
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Anyways, sorry to derail the thread.
Precious is in town so let’s hope we get a W tonight and Self knocks it out of the park with him.
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@Woodrow I wholeheartedly agree. Self, to me, is the far superior player developer if given multiple seasons. Which is why it has always been funny to me that he’d even go after the players he goes after.
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Woodrow said:
Anyways, sorry to derail the thread.
Precious is in town so let’s hope we get a W tonight and Self knocks it out of the park with him.
WE ARE GONING TOWIN
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Woodrow said:
LOL @ Josh not getting a second contract. Come on.
Agree for sure Woodrow - - - Josh will for sure be getting a 2nd contract - -plain and simple
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Woodrow said:
Kcmatt7 said:
@Woodrow The Suns will not be giving JJ a 2nd contract. It’s almost guaranteed at this point.
You said he would not be getting a second contract. Insinuating he will be out of the league when his first one runs out. The Suns might not sign him and if he was smart he wouldn’t resign with that dumpster fire, but he will sign a second contract with a team.
it may not be with that pit hole but ya Josh will get a 2nd contract. - - Phoenix has a lot of more problems then Josh - place is a dam dumpster fire - Josh would do really well to get the hell out of there. - -He is NOT their main reason for their situation
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Well something must of leaked - - got out or something. – - -6 picks on Matthew Hurt today - -and it looks like Duke is yet going to get Hurt - - SOB - this FBI thing is just killing us - - We are now a 59% - -and Duke is at 29 % – Man we are in a world of hurt. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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More follow the leader than anything. Literally 3 days ago Evan said he didn’t know jack. Bossi over at Rivals still likes KU.
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If I’m Precious right now AFH looks mighty fine
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FarmerJayhawk said:
If I’m Precious right now AFH looks mighty fine
you would think - -the phog was insane tonight - - solid - - solid showing for the guys tonight. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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we played very well, and got a much needed win. now, let’s finish strong!
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@FarmerJayhawk saw him sitting by Wayne, 100 miles away
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How were announcers? Saw marlins man in ku hat
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@FarmerJayhawk he’s much taller than wayne
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@BShark @Crimsonandblue12 Precious is enormous. Wayne is probably 6’7 or so and Precious makes him look small. Honestly he’s big enough to play some 5.
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@FarmerJayhawk Would be a dream to land him. Wouldn’t even care if Hurt went to Duke. Though right now Hurt is the better offensive player.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
How were announcers? Saw marlins man in ku hat
pretty decent – Jay Bilas was one of them
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BShark said:
@FarmerJayhawk Would be a dream to land him. Wouldn’t even care if Hurt went to Duke. Though right now Hurt is the better offensive player.
Either one. The perimeter is going to be salty.
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FarmerJayhawk said:
BShark said:
@FarmerJayhawk Would be a dream to land him. Wouldn’t even care if Hurt went to Duke. Though right now Hurt is the better offensive player.
Either one. The perimeter is going to be salty.
Agree. With or without Grimes. I hope it’s with though.
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BShark said:
FarmerJayhawk said:
BShark said:
@FarmerJayhawk Would be a dream to land him. Wouldn’t even care if Hurt went to Duke. Though right now Hurt is the better offensive player.
Either one. The perimeter is going to be salty.
Agree. With or without Grimes. I hope it’s with though.
Should be. At this point the staff isn’t recruiting any guards other than Stanley. Who honestly would be a nice bench piece.
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Simien? Precious makes Simien look small? That’s a big high schooler!
