Preseason Hype/Discussion
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Here is an interesting question in view of how everybody seems to have OU at the bottom. In spite of his big numbers, was Trae Young a net positive or a net negative to the program? By catering to one player to the detriment of the team, did Lon Kruger damaged his career and coaching reputation?
Great question.
In my observation Kruger just took it too far with how much freedom he gave Young. You could see the disconnect on the team by the middle of conference play. It certainly looked like his teammates were jealous to an extent and pissed off at Young having so much media coverage and having the ball in his hands a staggering % of the time for their offense. Young’s play at times looked selfish but he also had plenty of brilliant moments. If anything I think Kruger just failed to strike a balance between having a standout star player and making the rest of the pieces coexist with him. I would be stunned if players were not upset at the situation.
As far as being a net positive/negative I think without Young’s talent that OU team wasn’t making the tournament and wasn’t going anywhere. Overall he’s a positive to the program because there was massive exposure to OU all over the media (OU probably profited off Young) , Young was drafted high so that helps with recruiting. I’m sure there were plenty of recruits or players coming up that looked at Young’s situation as something they would want for themselves. No other player in the country was given the freedom or control that Young got. If players are about showcasing for the NBA this was a perfect example of that.
OU is going to struggle this year but not because Young is gone. Manek, James, McNease is a solid core trio but what else do they have. They had to go the grad transfer route for guards because the cupboard is bare. McGusty leaving hurt them big time and I wouldn’t be surprised if that was part of the Young fallout (net negative part you mentioned). Odomes & Doolittle haven’t progressed like you would expect from Kruger. It’s not a talented bunch and the only way they stay competitive is if the transfer guards they got play out of their mind.
Kruger is in rebuild mode and has to find a way to get better players back in Norman. He’s also got to keep them in Norman once they get there which has also been an issue.
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What’s everyone’s thoughts on who will be on the Pre-Season First Team All Big-12? Who will be POY, Defensive POY?
1st Team:
Barry Brown
Desmond Bane
Dean Wade
Dedric Lawson
Udoka Azubuike
POY- Dedric Lawson
Defensive POY- Konate- Unamimous
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I’m going to go out on a limb
All Big 12
Brown
Wigginton
Grimes
Wade
Dedric
POY Dedric
DPOY Konate
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Team 1: Brown, Wigginton, Wade, Lawson, Konate
Team 2: Fisher, Grimes, Bane, Lard, Azubuike
POY: Lawson
DPOY: Konate
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@KirkIsMyHinrich That combination for 1st and 2nd team definitely looks correct. I’d pretty much bet on those ten.
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It hurt me to put two kitties on the first team, but Brown and Wade are pretty much the team.
I would put Grimes first team if he played for any other team in the Big 12.
Fisher is the one I feel least confident in because of his knee.
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Yeah, big caveat there on Fisher. IF he can stay healthy. ISU having two guys that should be first and second team and THT speaks to their talent. We are going to find out if Prohm is a goober this year imo.
Brown and Wade definitely feel like locks. Sneed is a DUDE too but other than that KSU is mostly replacement level players. In fact I think Sneed will add just as much value to their team as Brown. Brown has more name recognition at this point though.
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@BeddieKU23 lol
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Fisher had another surgery and will be ready by the beginning of season? Knee again?
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Here is an interesting question in view of how everybody seems to have OU at the bottom. In spite of his big numbers, was Trae Young a net positive or a net negative to the program? By catering to one player to the detriment of the team, did Lon Kruger damaged his career and coaching reputation?
Young was a positive for OU. That team probably finishes 9th or 10th in the League without him, and definitely misses the tournament. They basically repeat the previous year.
This year we will see them without a good PG again, and OU will likely finish 8th or worse in the League and miss the tournament.
I think Kruger has hurt himself by struggling as much as he has since Hield and Co. left. Rather than building on that, the program has fallen flat. I think that hurts him more than letting a top 5 pick have free rein over the offense.
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Question:
Do you think OU basketball suffers when their football does well?
One of my dear OU football friends says they can’t have it both ways. The more promotion OU football gets its just a reminder that OU is a football school, not a basketball school.
I’d like to hear what people in here think about that comment.
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I think OU could be better in basketball, but its a matter of emphasis. OU doesn’t focus on basketball. They don’t pour a lot of resources into basketball. OU could be a top 25 program if they put the resources into it.
Kruger is a good coach, but OU doesn’t recruit at an elite level. If they did, they would be consistently in the rankings.
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@justanotherfan Yep. You can only win so much with a bag full of rocks.
And now Lon is going to have to start two grad transfers, including one who is on his third team now, and wasn’t really doing well in the A-10.
Realistically Lon needs a big class this year too. They currently have one solid player committed that should be the cornerstone of this class but there is a lot more work to be done there.
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Agree with others, Lon just isn’t a consistent recruiter. OU is a machine in football because they recruit Top 10 classes. Imagine Lon doing the same or any program in the Big-12 doing this outside of KU.
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Grimes is one I think can end up 1st team by season’s end. If he’s the leading scorer on this team or the top guard option that looks favorable. For some reason it looks like he might go a bit underrated until we see how big his role is on a stacked team
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@BeddieKU23 I think he ends up being the 2nd leading scorer and a general stat sheet stuffer. That should be good enough for first team if it happens.
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BShark said:
@BeddieKU23 I think he ends up being the 2nd leading scorer and a general stat sheet stuffer. That should be good enough for first team if it happens.
That’s my expectation as well. This KU team is good enough to have 5 starters in double figures but the minutes figure to limit that to probably 4. I would expect:
Dedric-18 pts, Grimes- 13, Vick - 12, Azubuike- 11.
After that Dotson- 8, Garrett- 6, De Sousa- 5, Moore/Lawson 4 & 4 I figure in that order. So many mouths to feed…
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BeddieKU23 said:
BShark said:
That’s my expectation as well. This KU team is good enough to have 5 starters in double figures but the minutes figure to limit that to probably 4. I would expect:
Dedric-18 pts, Grimes- 13, Vick - 12, Azubuike- 11.
After that Dotson- 8, Garrett- 6, De Sousa- 5, Moore/Lawson 4 & 4 I figure in that order. So many mouths to feed…
I think you’re probably underselling KJ Lawson and Charlie Moore a bit there. I think Azubuike probably scores a bit less, but more efficiently (8 or 9 ppg, but 80% or better from the field). I think both KJ and Moore average 6 or 7, probably at the expense of a non-scorer like Garrett. Dedric probably only scores 16 or so a game because there are so many options.
This team will score 80+ a night, but it will be fairly spread out, as you outlined. Dedric will be in double figures every night, but after that, a revolving cast of characters will have big games. Grimes will have a couple of games where he goes off for 25-30 (I wouldn’t be surprised if Grimes has the highest scoring game of the season). Dotson will have a 20 point game or two. Moore will go for 15-20 a time or two. De Sousa will have some nights where he gets some offensive put backs that push him to 12 or 14. Vick will have a game where he hits 4 or 5 threes to get him near or over 20. Heck, Dedric has a 30 point night in him, too. Azubuike will have a game where he dunks a team to death and goes for 20.
This KU team has six guys that can go for 20 on a given night, and probably eight that can go for 15. That’s going to put a lot of pressure on defenses.
Like you said, so many mouths to feed… but I think everybody will get their chances to eat.
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These were mine that I posted in another thread. I think the overall average might be a bit high though…
Dedric 17
Grimes 12
Doke 10
Vick 9
KJ 9
Dotson 7
Silvio 7
Moore 6
Garrett 5
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@BShark I hope Doke is more of a force than 10 points a game. His size alone should be good for 4-5 easy dunks a game. Maybe another 4-6 points off of baby hooks and (gulp) free throws. I would love to see his average around 14 and 10.
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@BeddieKU23 I agree pretty much with what you have predicted , like you say a lot of mouths - -however I think Silvio might be a little more productively ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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justanotherfan said:
BeddieKU23 said:
BShark said:
That’s my expectation as well. This KU team is good enough to have 5 starters in double figures but the minutes figure to limit that to probably 4. I would expect:
Dedric-18 pts, Grimes- 13, Vick - 12, Azubuike- 11.
After that Dotson- 8, Garrett- 6, De Sousa- 5, Moore/Lawson 4 & 4 I figure in that order. So many mouths to feed…
I think you’re probably underselling KJ Lawson and Charlie Moore a bit there. I think Azubuike probably scores a bit less, but more efficiently (8 or 9 ppg, but 80% or better from the field). I think both KJ and Moore average 6 or 7, probably at the expense of a non-scorer like Garrett. Dedric probably only scores 16 or so a game because there are so many options.
This team will score 80+ a night, but it will be fairly spread out, as you outlined. Dedric will be in double figures every night, but after that, a revolving cast of characters will have big games. Grimes will have a couple of games where he goes off for 25-30 (I wouldn’t be surprised if Grimes has the highest scoring game of the season). Dotson will have a 20 point game or two. Moore will go for 15-20 a time or two. De Sousa will have some nights where he gets some offensive put backs that push him to 12 or 14. Vick will have a game where he hits 4 or 5 threes to get him near or over 20. Heck, Dedric has a 30 point night in him, too. Azubuike will have a game where he dunks a team to death and goes for 20.
This KU team has six guys that can go for 20 on a given night, and probably eight that can go for 15. That’s going to put a lot of pressure on defenses.
Like you said, so many mouths to feed… but I think everybody will get their chances to eat.
I’ve gone back and forth on the scoring projections. I’m confident in the top 4 more or less but you could be right about KJ/Charlie, we just don’t know how the minutes are going to shake out which is why I went low. This team shouldn’t have any trouble scoring 80 a game once this team forms an identity and Self figures out who’s in the rotation and how all the pieces fit.
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All 5 of our starters will average double figures, and two reserves will avg double figures as well.
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jayballer73 said:
@BeddieKU23 I agree pretty much with what you have predicted , like you say a lot of mouths - -however I think Silvio might be a little more productively ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
I lowballed Silvio until we know for sure he’s playing and if he’s the only primary big sub for Dedric and Doke. I hope we can get him 12-15 minutes a night consistently because he’ll produce
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@joeloveshawks I get where you are coming from on it but it’s already 45 points a night from the front court, counting KJ as a front court player. Even on Self’s deepest front court teams like the JR Morris Twins team or the Cole and SO Morris twins team the front court scoring has only been in the high 30s.
For Doke to average 4 more points they have to come away from someone else. I think with more depth and post options Udoka could be better overall but still score less than last year.
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KUSTEVE said:
All 5 of our starters will average double figures, and two reserves will avg double figures as well.
Lol, calm down. This won’t happen. Even 08 only had 4 guys in double figures.
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@BShark I will NOT calm down…you can’t make me…lol. 7 double figure scorers…we’ll average more than the Warriors…lmao…
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BeddieKU23 said:
jayballer73 said:
@BeddieKU23 I agree pretty much with what you have predicted , like you say a lot of mouths - -however I think Silvio might be a little more productively ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
I lowballed Silvio until we know for sure he’s playing and if he’s the only primary big sub for Dedric and Doke. I hope we can get him 12-15 minutes a night consistently because he’ll produce
I’m expecting 20 minutes a night from Silvio. He KU gets the shaft and he can’t play that changes my projections big time.
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KUSTEVE said:
@BShark I will NOT calm down…you can’t make me…lol. 7 double figure scorers…we’ll average more than the Warriors…lmao…
You better calm down - -you want me to get Granny? lol - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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How about this? The team struggles from 3 in the pre-conference…Braun announces he is accelerating his senior year, and comes on in January, and hits the game winning shot to win the national championship. since we’re willfully speculating…
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@jayballer73 hehehehehe…this is fun. The best speculation on the board was where they were arguing about whether Braun would grow some more…that is just epic, classic rockchalk speculation…lmao. It was just too funny…
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You guys sure seem sold on Dedric. I’m not ready to predict him as b12 player of the year before seeing him play at least one game.
If he really is as dominant as Lafrentz, Gooden, Collison, Simien, Marcus and TRob I’ll be very pleasantly surprised.
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@DanR SOLD!
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DanR said:
You guys sure seem sold on Dedric. I’m not ready to predict him as b12 player of the year before seeing him play at least one game.
If he really is as dominant as Lafrentz, Gooden, Collison, Simien, Marcus and TRob I’ll be very pleasantly surprised.
Hopefully he does live up to the billing because the plan is 100% to run the offense through him. Showcase type of talent and basketball ability.
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BShark said:
For Doke to average 4 more points they have to come away from someone else. I think with more depth and post options Udoka could be better overall but still score less than last year.
Doke unleashed could add 4 more points just by getting a couple offensive rebounds!
I’m looking forward to the Doke-Konate matchups this year.
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Correction. I’m looking forward to everything about this season!
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Dedric averaged 19-10 without much of a supporting cast at Memphis. He commands double teams. He can shoot and handle. In a lot of respects, he’s a bigger, meaner, stronger version of Perry Ellis. And Dedric has the benefit of playing with a lot of talent now. He has never had a big man like Doke. He’s never played with a guard as good as Grimes. He’s never had PGs like Moore and Dotson. Dedric should be DOMINANT this season from day one.
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Dedric is the kind of player that warps the court and most opposing teams will have no good answer for defensively. He will score himself and create offense for everybody else because he is such a threat on offense.
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@justanotherfan Interesting comparison. i think Dedric is a better passer, and has better handles, but I think Perry is better shooter, at least so far. I was trying to rack my brain to come up with a comparison, and Dedric is a composite of several players, from some Manning to Perry, a bigger, slower version of JJ, to Oubre’s perimeter jumper. Good stuff…got me to contemplating…
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Y’all are gonna like Big Dave.
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@KUSTEVE Yeah Dedric is a special talent. Really understands the game too, great natural feel, a basketball lifer.
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BShark said:
Y’all are gonna like Big Dave.
That pass from Dotson to Big Dave towards the end of that clip is something we will see a lot. Grimes out on the wing keeping his defender honest. Two defenders converging on a slashing Dotson. Dedric keeping his defender honest on the other side of the paint, and an unguarded McCormack getting an easy lay-in as a result.
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@DanR I’m looking forward to Doke/Konate matchups too. I’m hoping Doke doesn’t get a technical called on him for standing this time in Morgantown. We know Konate won’t get called for a technical despite flexing and trash-talking every time he does anything. I’m still mad about that if you can’t tell.
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I can see games where Doke goes off for 20+ easy depending on whom he matches up. At the % clip Doke scores , a 3 point shooter would have to shoot 50% to match the efficiency.
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Doke’s one achilles heel is that he doesn’t shoot well from the line. If you can foul him before he scores, his efficiency plummets to near unplayable levels. Granted, you can’t do that every trip, but that’s also why I think KU closes games with Doke on the bench and either Big Dave or De Sousa manning the middle.
Doke can start and play early, but in the late part of games, where teams are more willing to take fouls, he will probably find himself on the bench.
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We will have to see how much progress he made over the Summer. FTs and rebounding are what kept him from being drafted so I will guess he has worked hard on both.
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BShark said:
Y’all are gonna like Big Dave.
Dave is a big boy - -love his size - - and really like how he hits the boards. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Here is an interview with Garret at Boot Camp; apparently Vick Hs developed some leadership skills and has been more vocal. Nice to see it from the lone senior.
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D DOTTTTTTTT
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@BShark I knew there was a reason I was on devon’s wagon early in the recruiting of him - You remember I was right there wanting this boy. Did you see that cross over at about the 0:24-25 in to the video? T hat stop and pop. - - The kid is relentless. - -attack – -attack - -attack. - -there is to a degree now pay attention I say to a certain degree he attacks the rim just Like Frank - -no fear. did you say fast? - -this kid is fast - -real fast. sweet dish’s . I just don’t see how you keep him out of the starting line up for very long - -very long at all. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
