Preseason Hype/Discussion
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@BShark bet on then?
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Some stuff from Scott Chasen at 24/7
âOur freshman class, I think, is probably the highest basketball IQ for an entire class that we have had for a while. I do think that as far as interaction with others and communication, I do think itâs a pretty good class. I really do,â Self said. âIf you guys remember, when Frank [Mason] first got here, we couldnât get him to talk. Of course, by the time he left here, we barely got him to talk. But Devonteâ [Graham] was one of those guys who just had it from the first day he walked on campus from the communications standpoint. I do think Ochai and David are in that same boat.â
So now comes the big question: Who will be left on the outside looking in?
Popular names to throw out before the season as potentially receiving a redshirt were Lightfoot, who may be the fifth big in the frontcourt, or Agbaji, a talented freshman who may be better served holding off a year and making things up on the back end. (Theoretically, McCormack could also be in that conversation as a potential fifth big, but that would seem extremely unlikely, especially given his status as a McDonaldâs All American.)
Of course, Sam Cunliffe was once in that conversation as well, but he has since transferred to Evansville, where heâs since added at least one set of responsibilities to his work on the court.
Regardless, hereâs what Self had to say about the rotation when asked about it back at media day:
âI hadnât thought about a rotation yet. We donât even know how you play 12,â Self said. âDo you try and play 10 and redshirt a couple, play 11 and redshirt one, play 12 and redshirt none? I do think our players that are young are good enough that if theyâre playing five or seven minutes a game they will be better at age 23 than 18. We havenât got that far yet. We could play long or two little guards at the same time. I think itâs too early to tell.â
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@BShark It makes alot more sense to have Garrett playing point guard. Heâs just too talented not to use his skill set at point guard. Our perimeter defense with him and Dotson, Grimes, and KJ will be STOUT.
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@KUSTEVE Add in that offensively, it makes sense to put the ball in his hands since he isnât a threat off the ball at all. Force the D to guard all 5 spots instead of basically letting Garretts man play zone. (Which was typically a big slow 4 last year, playing right into our opponents hands).
This year, when he is running point, he should have a 3 or 4 inch height advantage. We could post him up or clear out and let him drive the ball on a smaller guy. He becomes a much bigger offensive threat at PG, imo.
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@Kcmatt7 Every PG he plays against will be smaller than him. His defense will be exceptional, and heâll hit enough 3 pointers so teams canât lay off him. He played out of position all last year, and really did a great job.I canât wait to see him run the team.
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Yeah, a lot of his game in HS was driving it and pulling up for mid-range jumpers when needed. He was really good at that. He isnât a catch and shoot 3 pt guy.
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For those that donât want to click!
#4 Dedric
#21 Grimes
#54 Doke
#94 Vick
KSU has three players on the list: Wade at 23, Brown at 59, Sneed at 74.
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This is a nice write-up from @1JayhawkLifer on the Phog. Thanks.
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When Bill came out he said itâs always fun to have this Ladies Nights because you get tired of reading the newspaper. Later, after a question from one of the participants, he said âyou know I was just thinking about that, because I donât have anything else to think aboutâ. They were both said with humor and it helped lighten the mood, but there was definitely a small cloud hovering.
If I were to guess going by SDSâs demeanor/body language (although he did smile and seem to be enjoying himself), I donât think he will be playing, at least initially. Which really truly sucks because he is getting screwed by this whole thing and you can tell he just wants to play basketball and be out of this particular limelight.
Some interesting tidbits, during a session on scouting other teams, Norm Roberts said during the tournament when Duke was playing Syracuse a lot of fans probably wanted to play Syracuse, but the staff wanted to play Duke. Boheimâs zone is extremely effective and they knew Dukeâs wasnât. They also noticed a tendency of Bagleyâs that he was lazy and would not cover his position very well, so they decided to put their biggest and best defender on him, Svi. Which obviously worked very well.
When they were going through the players on Dukeâs team a picture of Grayson Allen was put up on the screen and the room proceeded to booo very loudly. Norm was like, âAmazingly we have gotten that same reaction from all the other groups as wellâ He then jokingly said, âI donât like him either.â biggrin
They divide the scouting of teams between all the coaches, so while one is scouting the next team up, the others are working on teams that will follow. They usually work about 10 days out on scouting.
When they scout, they show each player the player(s) they will more than likely be going up against. Bill then quizzes each player on the weakness(s) of the opposing player to make sure they understand what to look for and what to exploit when out on the court.
The best leapers on the team are Agbaji & Vick, with it being a toss up as to who is the better of the two. Hudy was asked who, of all the players she has trained, had the biggest leap from start to finish and she said Dedric Lawson. Canât wait to see what he can do on the court.
It was a great time as always, and got me excited for basketball season to begin. Not going lie, this FBI stuff had deflated my enthusiasm a bit, but last night helped restore it.
RCJH!! "
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Here is an interesting analysis on Lightfootâs role for the upcoming season by Matt Tait.
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@JayHawkFanToo This is a good series in general.
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If Mitch plays one real minute at the three I will be shocked.
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So, Kenpomâs system isnât without issues especially for preseason but KU is #1 on Kenpom preseason and itâs not even close.
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BShark said:
If Mitch plays one real minute at the three I will be shocked.
I could see him getting a few minutes here and there at the 3 this season. Definitely not equal to what he will at the 4. I think most of those minutes at the 3 would come due to foul issues though or if Self wants to go with a huge line up. Silvio playing this year would also probably make Mitch playing some minutes at the 3 the best way to get him on the floor.
I think this would also likely be Self experimenting with different line up combinations during the nonconference part of the schedule and wouldnât expect to see Mitch at the 3 during B12 play except in extreme situations.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
BShark said:
If Mitch plays one real minute at the three I will be shocked.
I could see him getting a few minutes here and there at the 3 this season. Definitely not equal to what he will at the 4. I think most of those minutes at the 3 would come due to foul issues though or if Self wants to go with a huge line up. Silvio playing this year would also probably make Mitch playing some minutes at the 3 the best way to get him on the floor.
I think this would also likely be Self experimenting with different line up combinations during the nonconference part of the schedule and wouldnât expect to see Mitch at the 3 during B12 play except in extreme situations.
Right. I could have been more clear but by real minutes I meant close/big games and not when KU is up big against a team such as South Dakota.
I can definitely see Self fooling around in those types of situations.
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@BShark I saw the KenPom rankings this morning and while I wasnât surprised KU was #1 I was shocked by the margin as you pointed out.
Was also surprised at Texas being #16 seems a little high to me.
Also WVU at #10 and KSU at #12.
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@BShark Lightfoot shouldnât be getting big minutes in big/close games period this year unless Silvio doesnât play this year
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@BShark Lightfoot shouldnât be getting big minutes in big/close games period this year unless Silvio doesnât play this year
Agree. Even if Silvio canât go tbh Iâd rather KJ be used as the back-up 4.
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@BShark That would largely depend on match ups to me. I donât know how well KJ could handle a physical 4 and with Mitchâs added bulk, Iâd think heâd be better suited for those types of match ups.
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Self on Agbaji
âThatâs one of the ones that was luck that we got,â Self said. âWe didnât recruit Ochai hard, [assistant coach Norm Roberts] thought he could play well enough that I should go watch him. I went to watch him, and I go, âI think heâs better than who weâre recruiting.ââ
The next step of evaluation revealed only more of the same.
âThen when you get to know him and you study him; you get to see length, explosiveness, attitude and toughness,â Self continued. âYou also see that his sister plays volleyball at Texas. Itâs a very athletic family. Both parents played [college basketball]. You start thinking that this kid has got some things, some intangibles.â
Of course, that final comment in and of itself would have been massive praise for any four-star freshman, especially one that was a late riser like Agbaji (even if he still finished well behind some of the more elite names in the class in the rankings).
Self, though, wasnât done hyping up the freshman.
âI donât want to make any predictions too bold, but he is going to be a guy who is going to start a lot of games, play a lot of minutes and score a lot of points while he is here,â Self said. âIt just may not happen immediately for him because we have depth. He was ranked No. 337 when he committed to us and Iâll be surprised if he doesnât pan out to be one of the best 30-40 players in this class.â
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Crazy. Itâs exciting thinking what Agbaji could be in time. Thatâs some awful high praise
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http://www2.kusports.com/weblogs/tale-tait/2018/oct/22/he-will-he-wont-he-might-2018-udoka-azub/
http://www2.kusports.com/weblogs/tale-tait/2018/oct/23/he-will-he-wont-he-might-2018-dedric-law/
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@BShark Dotson/Garrett/Agbaji/KJ/Big Dave. Charlie and Lightfoot off the bench first. Weâll need more size, and more wings, but that is a super solid core of experienced players. 7 guys with that much experience is such a luxury for us.
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"Self has since recruited some big-time pro prospects on the perimeter: Xavier Henry, Ben McLemore, Andrew Wiggins and Kelly Oubre, but they all lacked one quality. âThey were more shooters and scorers than playmakers,â Self says.
Williams was a playmaker, and in June 2016, Self found the guy to answer the question of what it would have been like had Williams run fist at Illinois. He called Howard.
âQuentin Grimes,â Self said from his seat at a tournament in Dallas. âHe reminds me of D-Will, but he will be better.â"
Lots of nuggets in that article but yeah Grimes is really good.
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Dotson
Grimes
Vick
KJ
Dedric
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BShark said:
Dotson
Grimes
Vick
KJ
Dedric
Whatâs this list for?
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KJ over Dok for versatility? Is this your starting lineup @BShark or confirmed?
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Kcmatt7 said:
BShark said:
Dotson
Grimes
Vick
KJ
Dedric
Whatâs this list for?
Starters imo, maybe not right away but eventually.
I think now rounding out the 8 man rotation will be Garrett, Moore and Dok. McCormack as a spot duty guy.
Interestingly enough, I think Silvio going out is biggest for Charlie Moore. It slides KJ down to playing the 4 much more and frees up guard minutes.
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@BShark So Doks not even in your 8 man roster!?!
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dylans said:
@BShark So Doks not even in your 8 man roster!?!
I meant Dok instead of Mitch. Iâll edit that LMAO.
I think Dok plays around 22 mpg.
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I canât imagine Doke not starting.
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@BShark Oh no way Self doesnât start Dok. You can book that.
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Yeah Dokeâs playing especially if heâs improved his FTâs. Heâll play anyway, heâs the dominate post player in the league beside his equally dominate teammate
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I think we see his rebounding and shot blocking improve this year substantially. He will be a force.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BShark Oh no way Self doesnât start Dok. You can book that.
I can see Dok starting for sure.
I think it will be interesting to see how Self plays it. I think once you get past Dok and Dedric, the bigs arenât very good so it makes a lot of sense to play small some of the time. But maybe he wants more of a particular identity and Mitch/Dave get bigger minutes than I expect.
Edit: Iâm counting KJ as a wing when I say the other bigs arenât very good. KJ is much better than Mitch.
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@BShark I think you will see a lot of KJ at the 4 like you are wanting.
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Self just said Doke and Dedric have solidified themselves as the starting bigs.
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Woodrow said:
Self just said Doke and Dedric have solidified themselves as the starting bigs.
Makes sense. I want to dream damn it. I have small ball fever.
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BShark said:
Woodrow said:
Self just said Doke and Dedric have solidified themselves as the starting bigs.
Makes sense. I want to dream damn it. I have small ball fever.
Move to Pennsylvania, follow Villanova. LOL
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BeddieKU23 said:
BShark said:
Woodrow said:
Self just said Doke and Dedric have solidified themselves as the starting bigs.
Makes sense. I want to dream damn it. I have small ball fever.
Move to Pennsylvania, follow Villanova. LOL
Lol. Hard pass.
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Good to here reassuring words from Self.
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Grimes is learning to always be on the move when Lawson has the ball, and at a recent practice, the big man found Grimes cutting to the basket. He cocked the ball back as if he was going to dunk it until Silvio De Sousa met him at the rim. Instead of trying to dunk on De Sousa, Grimes adjusted in mid-air, going underneath De Sousaâs left arm and dropped the ball over the rim with a finger roll.
âI was like, âwoo, that was crazy,ââ De Sousa says.
âIf that was me or anyone else,â sophomore Chris Teahan says, âtheyâre flat on their back because Silvio knocks them over.â
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âItâs definitely hard to guard him and keep him in front, especially if he hits you in the chest, it knocks you back a little bit and he can get separation and knock it down,â Teahan says. âHe has certain moves in his body that are hitchy, and heâll get you moving a half step one way and get enough room to knock it down in your face.â
These are the type of moves that won Self over, and once the Jayhawks started recruiting Grimes, the expectation was that they would land him because his mom, Tonja Stelly, also attended KU. But Howard says Stelly was no help. âShe made it extra tough for us because she went here,â he says. âShe wanted him to make the decision himself.â
Grimes was ultimately convinced it was the best system for him because of Selfâs fist offense and the freedom he gives his guards to make multiple reads with the ball in their hands. When Grimes is asked about theoretical plays, he talks out the progressions and options he would have with the ball.
Close your eyes and you can picture Deron Williams, who would play methodically and then beat defenders with a burst. âDeron was sneaky athletic too,â Howard says. âBut this kid, heâs freaky. And heâs fast too.â
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Told yâall Grimes has a great basketball mind.
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BShark said:
Told yâall Grimes has a great basketball mind.
Had no doubts either. Canât wait to see it on the floor
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He was a really nice surprise at the U18 games when he played PG and was select the Tournament MVP. Kid can do it all.
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Lol found put from local sports talk. - The Big 12 screwed up , they commented that KU actually WAS NOT the 100% pick to win the Big 12 title this year - - Said that yes K-State received a pick to win it - - OSU head coach- Boyton said he has learned that experience means a lot - - And there you have it â the rest of the news - -this is " Jayballer " - - Good Day lmao - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Interesting stuff from Ryan on the Phog here: https://247sports.com/college/kansas/Board/103719/Contents/Starting-lineup-tomorrow-123759798/
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Coaches cannot vote for their own team so no team gets all the votes.
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KSU got 2
