Preseason Hype/Discussion
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I would not take that bet, just spit balling based on what I watched last year with Garrett. Hoping the staff will see he is more of a fit at PG, was kinda awkward off the ball. Definitely not slighting Grimes. I think there are three capable PGs on the roster (Dotson, Grimes, Garrett).
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@BShark I like it
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@BShark He’s going to be a star for us. He’s simply fearless, he never looks rattled, or worried. That confidence is going to take him a long way.
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@BShark that’s a kid that gets it. Can’t wait too watch him grow…
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This is some info from Ryan Noel for those that don’t read the Phog.
"From the bits I’ve heard. like I said, I think it’ll be mostly Devon and Garrett handling the “lead guard” duties rather than Grimes or Moore.
And being a PG in high school mainly means you have the ballhandling ability to run things. He was widely billed as a PG by everyone that scouted him, and Self watched him run PG a bunch before his commitment.
Is he a traditional PG like Dotson is? No, but he’s most comfortable with the ball in his hands rather than playing off the ball. I think a lot of people on this board are in for a rude awakening when Garrett plays a lot at PG and Charlie Moore struggles to get minutes."
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@BShark bet on then?
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Some stuff from Scott Chasen at 24/7
“Our freshman class, I think, is probably the highest basketball IQ for an entire class that we have had for a while. I do think that as far as interaction with others and communication, I do think it’s a pretty good class. I really do,” Self said. “If you guys remember, when Frank [Mason] first got here, we couldn’t get him to talk. Of course, by the time he left here, we barely got him to talk. But Devonte’ [Graham] was one of those guys who just had it from the first day he walked on campus from the communications standpoint. I do think Ochai and David are in that same boat.”
So now comes the big question: Who will be left on the outside looking in?
Popular names to throw out before the season as potentially receiving a redshirt were Lightfoot, who may be the fifth big in the frontcourt, or Agbaji, a talented freshman who may be better served holding off a year and making things up on the back end. (Theoretically, McCormack could also be in that conversation as a potential fifth big, but that would seem extremely unlikely, especially given his status as a McDonald’s All American.)
Of course, Sam Cunliffe was once in that conversation as well, but he has since transferred to Evansville, where he’s since added at least one set of responsibilities to his work on the court.
Regardless, here’s what Self had to say about the rotation when asked about it back at media day:
“I hadn’t thought about a rotation yet. We don’t even know how you play 12,” Self said. “Do you try and play 10 and redshirt a couple, play 11 and redshirt one, play 12 and redshirt none? I do think our players that are young are good enough that if they’re playing five or seven minutes a game they will be better at age 23 than 18. We haven’t got that far yet. We could play long or two little guards at the same time. I think it’s too early to tell.”
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@BShark It makes alot more sense to have Garrett playing point guard. He’s just too talented not to use his skill set at point guard. Our perimeter defense with him and Dotson, Grimes, and KJ will be STOUT.
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@KUSTEVE Add in that offensively, it makes sense to put the ball in his hands since he isn’t a threat off the ball at all. Force the D to guard all 5 spots instead of basically letting Garretts man play zone. (Which was typically a big slow 4 last year, playing right into our opponents hands).
This year, when he is running point, he should have a 3 or 4 inch height advantage. We could post him up or clear out and let him drive the ball on a smaller guy. He becomes a much bigger offensive threat at PG, imo.
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@Kcmatt7 Every PG he plays against will be smaller than him. His defense will be exceptional, and he’ll hit enough 3 pointers so teams can’t lay off him. He played out of position all last year, and really did a great job.I can’t wait to see him run the team.
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Yeah, a lot of his game in HS was driving it and pulling up for mid-range jumpers when needed. He was really good at that. He isn’t a catch and shoot 3 pt guy.
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For those that don’t want to click!
#4 Dedric
#21 Grimes
#54 Doke
#94 Vick
KSU has three players on the list: Wade at 23, Brown at 59, Sneed at 74.
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This is a nice write-up from @1JayhawkLifer on the Phog. Thanks.
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When Bill came out he said it’s always fun to have this Ladies Nights because you get tired of reading the newspaper. Later, after a question from one of the participants, he said “you know I was just thinking about that, because I don’t have anything else to think about”. They were both said with humor and it helped lighten the mood, but there was definitely a small cloud hovering.
If I were to guess going by SDS’s demeanor/body language (although he did smile and seem to be enjoying himself), I don’t think he will be playing, at least initially. Which really truly sucks because he is getting screwed by this whole thing and you can tell he just wants to play basketball and be out of this particular limelight.
Some interesting tidbits, during a session on scouting other teams, Norm Roberts said during the tournament when Duke was playing Syracuse a lot of fans probably wanted to play Syracuse, but the staff wanted to play Duke. Boheim’s zone is extremely effective and they knew Duke’s wasn’t. They also noticed a tendency of Bagley’s that he was lazy and would not cover his position very well, so they decided to put their biggest and best defender on him, Svi. Which obviously worked very well.
When they were going through the players on Duke’s team a picture of Grayson Allen was put up on the screen and the room proceeded to booo very loudly. Norm was like, “Amazingly we have gotten that same reaction from all the other groups as well” He then jokingly said, “I don’t like him either.” biggrin
They divide the scouting of teams between all the coaches, so while one is scouting the next team up, the others are working on teams that will follow. They usually work about 10 days out on scouting.
When they scout, they show each player the player(s) they will more than likely be going up against. Bill then quizzes each player on the weakness(s) of the opposing player to make sure they understand what to look for and what to exploit when out on the court.
The best leapers on the team are Agbaji & Vick, with it being a toss up as to who is the better of the two. Hudy was asked who, of all the players she has trained, had the biggest leap from start to finish and she said Dedric Lawson. Can’t wait to see what he can do on the court.
It was a great time as always, and got me excited for basketball season to begin. Not going lie, this FBI stuff had deflated my enthusiasm a bit, but last night helped restore it.
RCJH!! "
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Here is an interesting analysis on Lightfoot’s role for the upcoming season by Matt Tait.
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@JayHawkFanToo This is a good series in general.
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If Mitch plays one real minute at the three I will be shocked.
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So, Kenpom’s system isn’t without issues especially for preseason but KU is #1 on Kenpom preseason and it’s not even close.
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BShark said:
If Mitch plays one real minute at the three I will be shocked.
I could see him getting a few minutes here and there at the 3 this season. Definitely not equal to what he will at the 4. I think most of those minutes at the 3 would come due to foul issues though or if Self wants to go with a huge line up. Silvio playing this year would also probably make Mitch playing some minutes at the 3 the best way to get him on the floor.
I think this would also likely be Self experimenting with different line up combinations during the nonconference part of the schedule and wouldn’t expect to see Mitch at the 3 during B12 play except in extreme situations.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
BShark said:
If Mitch plays one real minute at the three I will be shocked.
I could see him getting a few minutes here and there at the 3 this season. Definitely not equal to what he will at the 4. I think most of those minutes at the 3 would come due to foul issues though or if Self wants to go with a huge line up. Silvio playing this year would also probably make Mitch playing some minutes at the 3 the best way to get him on the floor.
I think this would also likely be Self experimenting with different line up combinations during the nonconference part of the schedule and wouldn’t expect to see Mitch at the 3 during B12 play except in extreme situations.
Right. I could have been more clear but by real minutes I meant close/big games and not when KU is up big against a team such as South Dakota.
I can definitely see Self fooling around in those types of situations.
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@BShark I saw the KenPom rankings this morning and while I wasn’t surprised KU was #1 I was shocked by the margin as you pointed out.
Was also surprised at Texas being #16 seems a little high to me.
Also WVU at #10 and KSU at #12.
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@BShark Lightfoot shouldn’t be getting big minutes in big/close games period this year unless Silvio doesn’t play this year
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@BShark Lightfoot shouldn’t be getting big minutes in big/close games period this year unless Silvio doesn’t play this year
Agree. Even if Silvio can’t go tbh I’d rather KJ be used as the back-up 4.
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@BShark That would largely depend on match ups to me. I don’t know how well KJ could handle a physical 4 and with Mitch’s added bulk, I’d think he’d be better suited for those types of match ups.
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Self on Agbaji
“That’s one of the ones that was luck that we got,” Self said. “We didn’t recruit Ochai hard, [assistant coach Norm Roberts] thought he could play well enough that I should go watch him. I went to watch him, and I go, ‘I think he’s better than who we’re recruiting.’”
The next step of evaluation revealed only more of the same.
“Then when you get to know him and you study him; you get to see length, explosiveness, attitude and toughness,” Self continued. “You also see that his sister plays volleyball at Texas. It’s a very athletic family. Both parents played [college basketball]. You start thinking that this kid has got some things, some intangibles.”
Of course, that final comment in and of itself would have been massive praise for any four-star freshman, especially one that was a late riser like Agbaji (even if he still finished well behind some of the more elite names in the class in the rankings).
Self, though, wasn’t done hyping up the freshman.
“I don’t want to make any predictions too bold, but he is going to be a guy who is going to start a lot of games, play a lot of minutes and score a lot of points while he is here,” Self said. “It just may not happen immediately for him because we have depth. He was ranked No. 337 when he committed to us and I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t pan out to be one of the best 30-40 players in this class.”
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Crazy. It’s exciting thinking what Agbaji could be in time. That’s some awful high praise
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http://www2.kusports.com/weblogs/tale-tait/2018/oct/22/he-will-he-wont-he-might-2018-udoka-azub/
http://www2.kusports.com/weblogs/tale-tait/2018/oct/23/he-will-he-wont-he-might-2018-dedric-law/
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@BShark Dotson/Garrett/Agbaji/KJ/Big Dave. Charlie and Lightfoot off the bench first. We’ll need more size, and more wings, but that is a super solid core of experienced players. 7 guys with that much experience is such a luxury for us.
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"Self has since recruited some big-time pro prospects on the perimeter: Xavier Henry, Ben McLemore, Andrew Wiggins and Kelly Oubre, but they all lacked one quality. “They were more shooters and scorers than playmakers,” Self says.
Williams was a playmaker, and in June 2016, Self found the guy to answer the question of what it would have been like had Williams run fist at Illinois. He called Howard.
“Quentin Grimes,” Self said from his seat at a tournament in Dallas. “He reminds me of D-Will, but he will be better.”"
Lots of nuggets in that article but yeah Grimes is really good.
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Dotson
Grimes
Vick
KJ
Dedric
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BShark said:
Dotson
Grimes
Vick
KJ
Dedric
What’s this list for?
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KJ over Dok for versatility? Is this your starting lineup @BShark or confirmed?
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Kcmatt7 said:
BShark said:
Dotson
Grimes
Vick
KJ
Dedric
What’s this list for?
Starters imo, maybe not right away but eventually.
I think now rounding out the 8 man rotation will be Garrett, Moore and Dok. McCormack as a spot duty guy.
Interestingly enough, I think Silvio going out is biggest for Charlie Moore. It slides KJ down to playing the 4 much more and frees up guard minutes.
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@BShark So Doks not even in your 8 man roster!?!
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dylans said:
@BShark So Doks not even in your 8 man roster!?!
I meant Dok instead of Mitch. I’ll edit that LMAO.
I think Dok plays around 22 mpg.
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I can’t imagine Doke not starting.
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@BShark Oh no way Self doesn’t start Dok. You can book that.
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Yeah Doke’s playing especially if he’s improved his FT’s. He’ll play anyway, he’s the dominate post player in the league beside his equally dominate teammate
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I think we see his rebounding and shot blocking improve this year substantially. He will be a force.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BShark Oh no way Self doesn’t start Dok. You can book that.
I can see Dok starting for sure.
I think it will be interesting to see how Self plays it. I think once you get past Dok and Dedric, the bigs aren’t very good so it makes a lot of sense to play small some of the time. But maybe he wants more of a particular identity and Mitch/Dave get bigger minutes than I expect.
Edit: I’m counting KJ as a wing when I say the other bigs aren’t very good. KJ is much better than Mitch.
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@BShark I think you will see a lot of KJ at the 4 like you are wanting.
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Self just said Doke and Dedric have solidified themselves as the starting bigs.
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Woodrow said:
Self just said Doke and Dedric have solidified themselves as the starting bigs.
Makes sense. I want to dream damn it. I have small ball fever.
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BShark said:
Woodrow said:
Self just said Doke and Dedric have solidified themselves as the starting bigs.
Makes sense. I want to dream damn it. I have small ball fever.
Move to Pennsylvania, follow Villanova. LOL
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BeddieKU23 said:
BShark said:
Woodrow said:
Self just said Doke and Dedric have solidified themselves as the starting bigs.
Makes sense. I want to dream damn it. I have small ball fever.
Move to Pennsylvania, follow Villanova. LOL
Lol. Hard pass.
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Good to here reassuring words from Self.
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Grimes is learning to always be on the move when Lawson has the ball, and at a recent practice, the big man found Grimes cutting to the basket. He cocked the ball back as if he was going to dunk it until Silvio De Sousa met him at the rim. Instead of trying to dunk on De Sousa, Grimes adjusted in mid-air, going underneath De Sousa’s left arm and dropped the ball over the rim with a finger roll.
“I was like, ‘woo, that was crazy,’” De Sousa says.
“If that was me or anyone else,” sophomore Chris Teahan says, “they’re flat on their back because Silvio knocks them over.”
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“It’s definitely hard to guard him and keep him in front, especially if he hits you in the chest, it knocks you back a little bit and he can get separation and knock it down,” Teahan says. “He has certain moves in his body that are hitchy, and he’ll get you moving a half step one way and get enough room to knock it down in your face.”
These are the type of moves that won Self over, and once the Jayhawks started recruiting Grimes, the expectation was that they would land him because his mom, Tonja Stelly, also attended KU. But Howard says Stelly was no help. “She made it extra tough for us because she went here,” he says. “She wanted him to make the decision himself.”
Grimes was ultimately convinced it was the best system for him because of Self’s fist offense and the freedom he gives his guards to make multiple reads with the ball in their hands. When Grimes is asked about theoretical plays, he talks out the progressions and options he would have with the ball.
Close your eyes and you can picture Deron Williams, who would play methodically and then beat defenders with a burst. “Deron was sneaky athletic too,” Howard says. “But this kid, he’s freaky. And he’s fast too.”
