BOLD PREDICTIONS
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@jaybate-1.0 I watched every minute of the FIBA tournament. Grimes had the ball in his hands a lot. My first impression was that he is big physically. Big enough to take the ball inside and defend the big guys on switches. Grimes isn’t slender like Garrett. Grimes also made the biggest effort to get his teammates involved. Most players on those tournament teams just go one on one. But, he turned the ball over too; usually trying too hard to get it to a teammate. Grimes’ three point shooting was off, but there’s no reason he can’t be a spot-up shooter. I can’t wait to see these guys, Thanks Coach Self.
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Thanks for the insights. Sounds like quite a player.
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Seems Self faces a tough choice. Grimes might be best at 2 or 3, taking over the ball for stretches, the way MJ used to.
But Self needs a point guard to let QG play that way.
Maybe Self WILL get away with Charlie and Dot at point with Grimes or Vick at wings switching off onto tall PGs.
OR Self can make Grimes a tall point guard, use Vick/Garrett at 2, big Ded at 3, and rotate all his remaining 5 bigs at 4 and 5.
If Grimes can do what you saw, then I say give him the keys and let him drive and kick. Oscar Robertson and Derek Rose seem like Grimes best precedents. Both demolished the NCAA.
I like Rose for a precedent. Rose had CDR AND an bunch of bigs. Ded = CDR. Figure KU’s bigs will be better than Memphistos. Figure KU won’t miss FTs down the stretch or run into a better coach.
Hang banner.
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jaybate 1.0 said:
Seems Self faces a tough choice. Grimes might be best at 2 or 3, taking over the ball for stretches, the way MJ used to.
But Self needs a point guard to let QG play that way.
Maybe Self WILL get away with Charlie and Dot at point with Grimes or Vick at wings switching off onto tall PGs.
OR Self can make Grimes a tall point guard, use Vick/Garrett at 2, big Ded at 3, and rotate all his remaining 5 bigs at 4 and 5.
If Grimes can do what you saw, then I say give him the keys and let him drive and kick. Oscar Robertson and Derek Rose seem like Grimes best precedents. Both demolished the NCAA.
I like Rose for a precedent. Rose had CDR AND an bunch of bigs. Ded = CDR. Figure KU’s bigs will be better than Memphistos. Figure KU won’t miss FTs down the stretch or run into a better coach.
Hang banner.
I don’t think we will see Grimes at the point this year , true he can play it - believe he did play it some in High School - just not seeing it at KU. - - I don’t think you might have to worry as much with our point as you might think. = =Devon is a very capable pg and other then being a Freshmen which again he is going to struggle at times such as like possible with that dam West Virginia press and possible some other stretches.
As most here know I for sure love Devon I just like his mentality kid is super quick and loves driving the ball tough kid reminds me some of a young Frank myself same bull doggish approach - I’ll take him any day. - - Now Charlie more likely then not will probably start the season as the starter and that’s ok that’s a luxury for us 2 pretty decent pg’s however I don’t think it will be long before Devon takes that spot. he is just to good not to you remember the saying it’s not who starts a game but it’s who is on the floor at the end? - -umm ya - - Devon.
Gonna be a lot of Dedric & Quentin for us and then throw Doke on top of that. - We are just so deep we can throw so many different combinations at a team. - Our depth is gonna be a huge factor this year. Going to allow the guys out front to be more aggressive cause they know they got help in back if they get beat Got the Bruisers allow the guards to take more risks at stealing the ball over playing the passing lanes and such. Then on our front line they don’t have to worry as much about foul trouble be more aggressive on the boards and such - -Someone get in trouble just throw another one in. - - McCormack - – DeSousa - – Mitch - - - Hell even KJ can slide down for a bit -we can go big - -we can go small - -we can combo MERCY - -look out. - Again I’m not real big in comparisions I just let them be who they are. - Some get a bad rap cause people try and tag them with a comparision and they might not meet some one’s expectations then all we hear is how they were such a bust. - I’m telling you though we are going to enjoy Quentin for his one year here and yes it will be one year just sit back and enjoy. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I also watched all the games and I was surprised when he played PG because he obviously was projected to play SG in college. I will guess that Coach Self saw in practice how good he was and decided to have him run the point; a real luxury to have a capable 6’-5" PG.
He was extremely good against competition that in some games was the equivalent of a JuCo team but other times was very good and he was rightly named the Tournament MVP. No doubt he is the best combo guard of his class.
KU has had several players (in recent years) that were ready to start and contribute very early on, McLemore, Selden Jackson. Wiggins come to mind and others did not start right away but did as the season went on, Embiid, Oubre come to mind and others such as Perry, Mason and Graham that you could see their potential became outstanding players but not necessarily from the get go.
From what I have seen, Grimes might be the player most ready to start and contribute from day one in recent years; Coach Self has pretty much said the same thing. You mentioned that at the U18 his 3 point shot was not as good as expected but he was shooting from FIBA range which is farther out than college; I expect him to be a 40% or better 3 point shooter, he was at that level his junior and senior HS years and with the additional training I am sure he will be up there in college. More concerning is his FT shooting since he has averaged around 64% which is low for someone that will be shooting fa air number of them.
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Grimes is the kind of player Self can shuffle around 1-4 depending on situational need. I would guess mainly 1-3 with the roster KU has this season. He will hope to become a pg in the NBA. He has great pg instincts. Think DWill.
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I agree. Grimes is the best combo guard of the class that can play 1-4 and might actually be the best PG in this team, but for the team, he is a better option at SG or wing. Moore is a natural SG but with the build of a small PG so I expect that when playing with Grimes they might switch position at times depending on the match ups but the primary PGs for the team will be Moore and Dotson with Garret as a distant third option. When playing a tall PG that would have too much advantage over Moore or Dotson, Grimes can slide to that position or Garret can play PG as well.
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Has anyone heard news in regards to Silvio?
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twhalen said:
Has anyone heard news in regards to Silvio?
Nothing more that I know of. All I have heard is that Coach Self is fully expecting Silvio to be Eligible and ready to go - nothing otherwise that I have heard at this point. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@JayHawkFanToo Yep. Lot’s of roster flexibility. Who knows maybe Vick plays pg.
@twhalen I am not getting the same vibes from this as the Preston situation. The first game will be very telling. If Silvio plays I would expect him to play all year. If not…
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No news is good news?
As far as I know he is still in school and working out with the the team. I really don’t expect the NCAA to do anything until the FBI has acted and by that time the season might be over. I assume KU will get assurances from the NCAA that Silvio is still eligible because it would not risk having to forfeit games, more so in a season where the National Title is a very realistic goal.
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If Vick plays PG maybe Doke can slide and play wing…
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The thing is: to win a ring, KU’s starting 5 and first two rotation players HAVE to play a scheme that can OVERCOME whistle asymmetry and flat out beat the other 2-3 best Nike EST teams in the country, when they shorten to seven to keep their best guys on the floor 38-40 minutes with the refs no calling the KU OPPONENT back into the game from 20 to 5 remaining and then putting the KU opponent on the FT line the last 5 minutes. This is the recurrent pattern every non Nike EST team faces each March.
So: Self has little choice but to get his most dominant two scorers in position to strike as quickly as possible to avoid passing to get open looks that just allows more no calls.
Any non Nike EST team that runs the stuff down the stretch against any TOP 3 Nike EST team is playing into the structural asymmetry apparently imposed on such games.
My point here is this:you don’t want to run offense all season and run 8-9 man rotations that rely on point guards passing to get Grimes, or Ded, the ball, because the no calls stop that cold in March.
You also don’t want to waist your time with Grimes and Ded driving for short treys, because those COMPLETELY disappear in March.
The 7 man rotation and the 40-50% trey and the carry them up on your back dunk are the only way on offense for a non Nike EST team to have ANY chance in a Final Four these days.
I’d rather invest in Grimes at PG now instead of having to shift over to in March.
Besides, even if Grimes plays 2, he will effectively take over point to seal close conference games.
Cut to the chase.
START him at PG so opponents face maximum stress from tip off and rest whenever they crack.
That way you get to run with what brung you when the refs weigh in in March.
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@jaybate-1.0 - – Sorry to disappoint you but I don’t think your going to be seeing Quentin at the point , I strongly feel they recruited these TWO players for very specific positions. I think they recruited Devon and fully committed to him as being THE pg on this roster and he is good enough to do that, I also think they recruited. Quentin fully as a 2 wing player - Not saying he won’t play any other position BUT I think if anything you have more of a chance of seeing Quentin playing some 3 more then the pg.
We have two very solid pg’s to man that spot - ya you might and again I say might see Quentin possibly play a LITTLE pg but to suggest that Coach is going to move him over and have him starting at the pg? - - - Not happening. - For one If they were going to do that I don’t think they would of invested so much time in recruiting Devon again and with Moore who has had a year of playing as the pg at a major college has that College experience - just don’t see it - -not at all , not in the scenario your trying to paint anyways - -Quentin if I were to wager I would say he will be playing the 2 spot 90 % of the time with probably at least the other 5-10 % at the 3 - -it just doesn’t make that much sense to try and have him come in and take over as a pg when you have two very competent other pg’s already there, that’s not making us of the entire squads contributions/talent and Devon is a talented player and will be just fine as the pg - leave Quentin at the 2 there is a bigger need for him there then our pg spot - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I am already disappointed.
Vick and Grimes relegated to wings by a couple short point guards that Vick and Grimes will have to cover for on defense and shoot for on offense.
Orthodoxy costs will be paid to the end of the season.
Unorthodoxy costs would only have to be paid till January or early February.
But orthodoxy and playing the OADs that keep the OAD spigot open will likely prevail.
And we will likely celebrate another 30+ win season, a title from overwhelming numbers and get shot out of a gym when we have to shorten to 7 against a team with a 6-3 point guard, a 6-6 2, and a stretch 4 as good as Ded, and a 5 that can shoot the trey and pull Doke out to 20 feet.
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@jaybate-1.0 Seems like though we have just recently had a couple of short point guards Well Devonte not that short but seems like Frank and Devonte shot the ball pretty well, just because your short doesn’t mean you can’t play the game. - Look at Tiny Nate Archibald - - - The Small fry from Kentucky a couple of yrs back , Frank - our POY - were gonna be all right
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What makes you think Dotson is a short guard? Every single publication (even KU) lists Dotson as 6’2” the same height as Devonte and Chalmers and taller than RussRob, Sherron, Mason and Tharpe and just an inch short than Tayshawn Taylor, all of the recent PGs at KU. Moore is the same height as Collins, Tharpe and Mason…and no, I am not going by KU measurements, which actually proved to be spot on if you look at the listed height at KU and compare with measurements at the NBA combined in the last few years, I am going by listed measurements in other publications which list height. You are welcome to find a recent publication that lists Dotson shorter than 6’2”; his height in elementary or middle school do not count.
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@JayHawkFanToo I probably started that. He looks about 5’11", but everything I’ve found is saying he’s 6’2".
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@JayHawkFanToo Here Dotson is working over Jahvon Quinerly, and Dotson is definitely taller than Jahvon, who is 6’1". We’re going to be just fine at point guard, because Dotson is a BEAST:
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@KUSTEVE Dotson is the best PG in last year’s class. FIGHT ME ANYONE THAT DISAGREES.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
Can Zion stop doke?
He’s strong enough to hold his position against Doke in the post. Whether his technique is sound enough to do so without fouling is beyond me because we haven’t seen him tested like that.
Because Doke doesn’t have a lot of post moves (he’s not Kevin McHale down there), if a player can handle the strength, he can be guarded.
It’s just that 95% of the players in college BB can’t handle Doke’s strength. Zion is one of the strongest incoming freshmen I have ever seen.
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The big question is …can we shoot the ball from outside and stretch the defense. I think we can. Several people on here have doubts. Bill has doubts :
“And I’ve said hundreds of times already, and I’ll say it some more: We’ve got a lot of nice players — really nice players — but unless we have a couple of guys kind of emerge as knockdown shooters, nice players can be guarded pretty easily.
“We’ve got to find some guys that can consistently stretch it.”
And that’s the million dollar question. I like our chances…Vick becomes very important. Charlie gets more run. Grimes has to show his mettle. Dedric and KJ have to shoot better from 3. That’s our challenge. I think we’re up to it.
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I think Grimes will be an improved shooter in college.
In HS, Grimes often had to create his own shot. He has excellent form and shot the ball pretty well, but he had to do a lot of work off the dribble. He is a good catch and shoot guy, and should have a chance to use that skill more often at KU.
Dotson/Moore will be the best PG he has ever played with on a consistent basis. That takes the burden off him to playmake every trip, which should help him be more efficient.
He will also have D. Lawson commanding double teams inside. That should help bend the defense in his favor. Remember, in HS Grimes was always the focal point offensively. At KU, he will have opportunities where he is the second or third option, or will have plays where the defense is drawn away from him.
@KUSTEVE raises the point of shooting, which is a key factor. I think Grimes and Vick are going to be able to stretch the D. Lawson may be able to help as well. KJ, Moore and Dotson are good enough shooters to keep the defense honest. KU doesn’t have a Graham or Svi to hold a guy outside at all times, but KU has enough solid shooters to keep the defense from packing it in.
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jayballer73 said:
@jaybate-1.0 Seems like though we have just recently had a couple of short point guards Well Devonte not that short but seems like Frank and Devonte shot the ball pretty well, just because your short doesn’t mean you can’t play the game. - Look at Tiny Nate Archibald - - - The Small fry from Kentucky a couple of yrs back , Frank - our POY - were gonna be all right
It means you can be NPOY and be one of the best short guards of the modern era and need help from wings, get contaied against NBA perimeter bodies like Quentin Grimes, and not make the Final Four in the case of Frank Mason, whom I dearly love and respect.
But competitive basketball officiated as it has been in the March Carney means any obvious weaknesses like short players playing shorter as the game wears on get ruthlessly exploited by Nike EST opponents.
War is hell.
Assymetrically officiated Carney ball played against NIKE EST teams stacked with OADs is at least a war game with live rounds.
No prisoners taken.
All weak links broken.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
What makes you think Dotson is a short guard? Every single publication (even KU) lists Dotson as 6’2” the same height as Devonte and Chalmers and taller than RussRob, Sherron, Mason and Tharpe and just an inch short than Tayshawn Taylor, all of the recent PGs at KU. Moore is the same height as Collins, Tharpe and Mason…and no, I am not going by KU measurements, which actually proved to be spot on if you look at the listed height at KU and compare with measurements at the NBA combined in the last few years, I am going by listed measurements in other publications which list height. You are welcome to find a recent publication that lists Dotson shorter than 6’2”; his height in elementary or middle school do not count.
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You already know EXACTLY why. HOWLING!!!
And Charlie is positively diminutive with historical indexing!!
Next.
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justanotherfan said:
…I think Grimes will be an improved shooter… At KU, he will have opportunities where he is the second or third option, or will have plays where the defense is drawn away from him… KJ, Moore and Dotson are good enough shooters to keep the defense honest. KU doesn’t have a Graham or Svi to hold a guy outside at all times, but KU has enough solid shooters to keep the defense from packing it in.
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I am grateful to you for trying to put this issue in a reasonable and reassuring light, but…
OMG! You, whom I trust implicitly at least to try to ring out the fantasy talk and tell it as it is; i.e., without the hype, have done so again and…alas, you have confirmed my worst fears.
First, Grimes, on a team full of newbies and transfers will be second or third option some of the time
.Second, the team doesn’t have ANYONE like Svi and Devonte that teams have to stretch to guard every possession.
Now think with me a moment here.
No. One. Like. Devonte. Or. Svi.
Last season, Nova had SIX guys like Devonte and Svi!!! Hell, two were in the paint!!
Every second or third year some team has 3-4 like Devonte and Svi. Heck, only a few years back even the bang ball cheese heads had 2-3 outside AND a footer that could pot the triceratops. And it seems Consonants always has 3 trey guns.
And EVERY season it seems like a few teams have at least 2 like Devonte and Svi, right?
So this means this team is trying to win a ring without as good of 3pt shooting (not even talking about Nova grade here, just average Final Four grade shooters), as some other elite teams almost certainly will have, AND in a season when many coaches will be trying to emulate and implement some or as much of Nova’s trey offensive and defensive schemes as possible.
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jaybate 1.0 said:
Last season, Nova had SIX guys like Devonte and Svi!!! Hell, two were in the paint!!
Actually, Nova really only had three guys like that - Bridges, Divincenzo and Brunson. They had two interior guys who could shoot, but feasted more on the fact that many teams would not send their 4 or 5 man out to guard them, as opposed to being outright knockdown shooters. They had one other guy that benefited from a stretched defense (Booth) by getting good, unguarded looks.
Nova benefited from being able to stretch the defense in so many ways that someone always had an open look. I think Grimes, who is a better player than all but probably Bridges (and maybe Divincenzo) will get the same benefit, which is probably worth a couple percentage points.
KU will benefit from open looks. Vick hits open looks. Grimes will. Moore does. Dotson probably will. The Lawson’s might.
There are enough capable shooters that KU should have adequate shooting. It won’t be great, but good enough to get the job done.
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Actually they had six.
