February 28: News Headlines Digest
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Also see our Daily Threads, February 28, and the News Digest for Yesterday, February 27, as well as Daily Threads for Yesterday, February 27
##Newell: KU basketball guard Wayne Selden Jr. sacrificing spotlight to help Jayhawks win##LAWRENCE — Look at this from Wayne Selden Jr.’s perspective, and it’s easy to see why many players in his situation might be frustrated.
Before No. 1 recruit Andrew Wiggins signed with KU in mid-May, the talk was how Selden — the 12th-best player in his class — would have an opportunity to step in immediately to a major scoring role.
###ESPN: Bill Self backs Wichita St. for a No. 1###
Kansas coach Bill Self believes that unbeaten Wichita State deserves a No. 1 seed in the NCAA tournament if it beats Missouri State on Saturday and then wins the Missouri Valley tournament.
That doesn’t mean he’s changed his stance on scheduling the Shockers.
###Keegan: Andrew Wiggins the right choice for Big 12 Player of the Year###
Even with 17 percent of the Big 12 season remaining it’s difficult to imagine anything happening that could prevent Kansas freshman Andrew Wiggins from winning the honor.
####Mike and Mike: Decade of Dominance####
Kansas coach Bill Self dishes on winning 10 straight Big 12 titles, the development of Joel Embiid and Andrew Wiggins, the challenges with one-and-dones, social media and more.
###### Also see our Daily Threads, February 28, and the News Digest for Yesterday, February 27, as well as Daily Threads for Yesterday, February 27
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February 27, 2014
##Self meets the press on Thursday##
Shay Wildeboor JayhawkSlant.com Senior Writer
On Thursday afternoon, Bill Self conducted his weekly press conference in Lawrence. Jayhawk Slant is here to provide you with a complete recap.
Is it motivating that you could win the undisputed title this week?
COACH SELF: You know, I think that may be a small part of it. I think the motivation is it’s Oklahoma State and we’ve kind of developed a pretty good rivalry with them in recent memory. (The) Last three games have been really close, last possession type games. Certainly, the opportunity to win a game away from home, in front of a national audience on (ESPN College) GameDay, is plenty of motivation in itself.
Does Oklahoma State look like a different team so far with Marcus Smart coming back from that suspension?
COACH SELF: Yeah, they’re different. I know that I was a guy that probably sang his praises as much as anybody since he’s been at OSU because I got to know him through the recruiting process. He’s good. He can impact the game and not score. He’s one of the few guys out there that can control it. His defensive anticipation is probably as good as anybody that we’ll ever play against, not just this year. He’s a good player, and obviously, he and the OSU team have been through a lot here as of late. He’s spinning it into a positive; they seem to be playing very, very well, and he’s played very well since he’s been back, totally dominated the games.
If Phil Forte is starting, what challenge does he present?
COACH SELF: To me, one reason why they’re playing better is because he’s played well, and he plays better whenever Marcus (Smart) is in the game with him because he does as good a job of finding he’s like of like the twins, Marcus and Markieff (Morris), looking for each other. I think that he is certainly as good of a sixth man as there is in the country coming off the bench, giving energy and making shots. Whether or not he starts, I don’t know what Travis will do. He hasn’t phoned me and told me exactly how he’s going to play everything out.
I do think that he’s (Forte) tough to guard. He stretches the defense and really allows driving opportunities for some of the other guys because you can’t leave him.
When the schedule came out and you saw Oklahoma State on Saturday night, on ESPN GameDay, did you think ‘That’s a big one. That could be for the league that night?’
COACH SELF: Yeah, the only thing negative I thought of is 10 p.m. (when the game is approximately over), that means it will be late we won’t get back until about 4 a.m. in the morning. When the game starts at 8 p.m., it’s going to be a long day.
But certainly we thought that this game or I did, I can’t speak for others – would have conference implications as far as who would have the best shot to win it.
You know, it’s nice being able to go down there knowing that we’ve clinched a tie, but still, a tie doesn’t really mean anything. We’ve got to go finish the job and we’ve got some opportunities to do that. But why wait? Let’s go ahead and take care of business and put ourselves in a favorable position with the committee moving forward into the tournament.
Tarik Black and Jamari Traylor, they’re not twins, but what they provide for you, it’s hard to say one without the other. Could you talk about them?
COACH SELF: Well, there are not too many programs in the country that have as many big guys coming off the bench as we do. Then, in addition to that, have guys that are productive coming off the bench. You could even throw Landen Lucas in there. In his limited minutes he’s done very well for us, too.
I really think Tarik (Black) and Jamari (Traylor) have been a big reason why we’ve been better. They’re giving us energy; they’re playing at a high level; they’re efficient, as you pointed out. They don’t take a lot of hard shots. Most of their shots are in tight, but yet, they still do what they do and certainly give us a physical presence and an energy presence, and that’s needed with Joel Embiid and with Perry Ellis, too.
It’s nice to have somebody a little bit different coming in off the bench that can kind of have a different type of impact on the game based on their own skill set. Both of those guys are able to do it.
You mentioned putting yourself in a favorable position. A lot of the talk from the talking heads assume it’s going to be you and Wichita State for that final No. 1 spot. How do you see that?
COACH SELF: Well, first of all, we’re not in competition with Wichita State. They’ve had an unbelievable year. We’ll be in competition with them if we play them, but they’ve had an unbelievable year, and I personally think they deserve the No. 1 line if they’re able to go ahead and take care of business. You hear the so called pundits say, ‘Well, their schedule this or that.’ Well, it’s hard to win on the road, especially when you’re everybody’s Super Bowl game, and they’ve been able to do that. You have to respect that.
All I want is for us to get better and put us in a more favorable position. People around here will make a big deal about that potentially, and I guess it did happen in 1980 or '81 where it came down to a one possession deal and Wichita State beat Kansas in that one game if I’m not mistaken. So it has happened before where they’ve met in the tournament.
But I would say this: If that were to happen and both teams meet in the tournament, that means that both teams have probably done quite well in the tournament to get to that game. If it happens, it happens, but I’m not the least bit concerned or consumed with, ‘Hey, I hope this or I want this’ or we’re in competition with them. All we’re in competition with is ourselves and the teams that are lined up to play in front of us, no one else.
We’re a long ways away from being a serious contender for the No. 1 line. I mean, right now we may be, but we’re still potentially five or six games away, which is a lot of time that you can move a lot of lines in the selection committee’s mind. Yeah, we could be a No. 1, could be a No. 4. A lot of things just depend on how we finish the season.
Since you’ve been at KU, the two highly-ranked teams in the state of Kansas have been KU and K State. What’s it mean for the state when Wichita State is the other team highly ranked and highly profiled?
COACH SELF: Well, I think it’s great for our state, a state populated as we are and considered so many to be a flyover type state from a media standpoint. I come from Illinois where I don’t know how many, 11 million people or whatever it is live in the state, and you come here, and what is it, just under two [2.9 million]? I don’t know exactly how many live in the state, and to have three programs that have done as consistently well as they have I think speaks volumes to the ball in our area. People will try to pit things against others, but I’ve said all along, iron sharpens iron, and when others are good in your area, that kind of raises your own level, too. It’s been good for us to have K State and Wichita State so competitive.
When you go back to Stillwater, do you allow yourself just a little bit of time to walk down memory lane, or do you not?
COACH SELF: I’ve forgotten most of my memories back from age 18 to 22. Probably not. You know, the first time I went back I made a mistake I can’t remember if it was Big Monday or if it was an (ESPN College) GameDay or whatever when we went back the first time or whatever when I came here, but it was a big game and they were loaded. That was the year they went to the Final Four. We ended up losing in the Elite Eight, but they rocked us good. I think I called three timeouts in the first four minutes of the game and got a technical just so that we could stop play a little bit to catch our breath, and they rocked us pretty good.
I kind of did that, I toured every place and went to lunch with old friends and all that, and I realized after that, we’re not going to go down that path again. So this is strictly a business trip, and if I’m able to see some of my buddies, it’ll be after the game in the hallway as we leave, but that’ll be about it.
At what point of the season do you actually look at other teams across the country and where you guys may be seeding wise?
COACH SELF: I think it’s still a little premature – close to the last week of the regular season, but for sure going into the NCAA Tournament. I think curiosity, obviously, is pretty high at that point in time, so you start thinking about it. But I don’t look at it like who we’ll be seeded with 1 and 2 and that stuff as much, or 1 and 4, 2 and 3. I look at it as, 'Okay, if we’re a 1 (seed), who’s the 8 and 9s and who’s the 16s? I’ll look at it from the standpoint of just looking at it one week in advance as opposed to looking all the way through it.
Throughout the years, when Kentucky and North Carolina have been to the national championship game, they lose a lot of personnel, then the following year they’ve played in the NIT. Why do you think KU has been able to rebuild what it’s lost and still get into the NCAA Tournament?
COACH SELF: Well, I told Bob (Davis, Jayhawk Radio Network) this the other day; the thing that kind of gets lost in the situation (is that) the players are good, but the assistant coaches are really good. When you think about the players that we’ve had and the turnover we’ve had, those guys (assistant coaches) continue to bring in guys (players) that fit who we are and what we’re trying to get accomplished. It’s been pretty remarkable by that staff. And of course the staff changes, whether it’s Jank (Tim Jankovich) or Danny (Manning) or Joe (Dooley) or whoever, we’ve had turnover.
But there’s been some constants in the job those guys have done. When you recruit well, obviously you lack experience a lot of times. Still, you want experience, but yet talent will win more games than experience will, and hopefully by the end of the season we’ll have both.
I was wondering about the Big 12 Conference Player of the Year race. Obviously you have a couple guys who have been considered; Iowa State’s got a couple. When is the last year, if you’ve thought about it at all, when it was so open with three games still left before the tournament?
COACH SELF: I know Wayne (Simien) won it, I know Marcus (Morris) won it and T Rob (Thomas Robinson) won it, if I’m not mistaken. Have we had any more than that win Player of the Year in the league? I think that may be it.
This year, I’d like to say Joel (Embiid) is a candidate. I don’t know if that’s as realistic for Joel – just being honest – because numbers are usually what a lot of people vote on, and his numbers aren’t such that that could be the case, even though he can impact the game as much as anybody in our league. I think Wiggs (Andrew Wiggins) is definitely in contention to be our conference Player of the Year, but I think there are guys from other programs that are in serious contention, too. (There) may even be some guys that right now would be a leg up on some others, including Andrew.
I still think with three games left, it’s starting to get down to it. But I do think everybody should refrain from drawing any conclusions on what they think until the season is over because there are still a lot of things that can happen between now and then that would definitely tip the scale one way or another.
Back to your staff, you’ve had some turnover just in the last year, with Norm Roberts coming back and Jerrance Howard joining in. What have they brought? Also Fred Quartlebaum, what’s he brought to your staff?
COACH SELF: I thought Barry Hinson was positive. He (Quartlebaum) makes Barry Hinson look like the sky is falling and the sun will never come up. He is the most positive guy ever. He never has a bad day. I think that’s been good for our players, and I think our staff energy is good. When I was a young guy, my staff was pretty young, and I didn’t ever think about needing any energy on our staff. As we get a little bit older, I think hiring a young guy that’s a little bit different, and Jerrance is that. He brings something totally different from an energy standpoint, from a fun standpoint, that I think is really important because none of us are getting any younger. Although Norm (Roberts) is young, Kurtis (Townsend) and I, we’re on the down side of everything.
So I really believe that he (Howard) brings energy. The one thing that you can’t undersell – Doc (Sadler) did it for us and Barry (Hinson) did it for us - is having somebody that’s been in the fire like Norm (Roberts) has. We talk about being the fire; Norm was in New York City as a first time coach for six years or whatnot. So he’s been there, and to have somebody that can see it through a little bit different eyes from a head coaching perspective has been real good for me, as well.
We’ve got a really nice blend, and we have for a while, from Danny (Manning) the ex player, to Jank (Tim Jankovich), the intellectual. With Jank the sky was always falling with him, too. But then you have different guys that are so upbeat and positive and we kind of offset each other. I think that’s been really positive.
When you’re putting together a roster, people just look at bringing in the top players, but is it underrated to bring in those guys that are kind of in the 20 to 50 or 20 to 70 range?
COACH SELF: First of all, I don’t know if we understand this, but I want you to think, if you say 20 to 50 range, bring in those guys, those guys are studs. Thomas Robinson couldn’t crack that group; Marcus and Markieff Morris couldn’t crack that group in so called high school recruiting services experts. Tyshawn Taylor wasn’t in that group, Elijah Johnson wasn’t in that group, neither was Travis (Releford) or (Jeff) Withey. But they were all good players. The key with our guys, and they’ve done a good job, you not only recruit kids but you have to evaluate and then be able to project. Jank was very good at that, projecting, and Norm is very good at it.
So I really feel like that those guys I don’t look you can look at guys No. 1 through 5 or No. 1 through 7 that are rated that way yearly, maybe even No. 1 through 10, and you know they’re going to have a huge impact. You know. But there’s not that much difference between No. 11 and 50 maybe what days they played well and who was watching and stuff like that. I think those recruiting services, although I appreciate them and I know they work hard, I think they’re so overrated in a lot of ways because it’s up to a school to determine who can play and how they fit to make you better. There’s a lot of guys out there that could pick a school that are so, so talented on paper, but they can’t play the way that that system is designed to play with, or play for, and it just never works out. Our guys have done a good job of plugging them into who we are.
Do you feel like in the last couple weeks Wayne Selden, Jr., has started to figure it out?
COACH SELF: Yeah, Wayne is getting it. Whether or not he’s making shots or not, he’s figuring out a way to impact the game. He’s figuring out his role and the impact he can have. Certainly, (he’s) taking a lot of pride on the defensive end. He’s played well.
Joel (Embiid) and Andrew Wiggins deserve the majority of the attention; I get that. But it shouldn’t be lost, if we didn’t have those two, then there would be Wayne Selden, Jr., who obviously would be used in a way where he could be strongly considered for Freshman of the Year in our league.
There’s been a lot of years that there’s been a Freshman of the Year in our league that, from a talent standpoint, probably wasn’t superior to what we feel Wayne Selden, Jr., is.
How has Naadir Tharpe matured over the year?
COACH SELF: Well, he’s done great. We’ve done fairly well in the league, and in large part because of our point guard play. He’s responsible. If you go back and think about it, he kind of put us on his back at Iowa State, and he’s put us on his back in some different games that you look up and say we wouldn’t have won that game without him. He’s played well. And the same thing with Oklahoma the other night; when we were kind of puttering around a little bit, he made every play down the stretch, so he’s gotten better. The one area I think that he can continue to get better at is on the defensive end, but I think he’s really trying. I’m really pleased with him. I think he’s one of the most improved players around.
Talking about progression, can you discuss what you’ve seen from Andrew (Wiggins) from the attention coming in and actually putting him in position to be considered for Player of the Year in the conference?
COACH SELF: Well, I think that he’s learned how to impact the game more from an athletic ability. (It’s) Still not enough to our liking, but he’s getting better at that, and he’s learned that when he plays, he’s going to get other people’s best shot. People are going to line up to want to get a piece of him; that’s the way it is. That was pretty evident, even in the preseason stuff, because he got a lot of attention and hadn’t really made a basket yet. That’s the case.
I think he respects that and understands that better. But he’s had the best year on our team, and I would say that to this point. That doesn’t mean other guys can’t surpass him or whatnot, but to this point, he’s been the most consistent and the best performer that we’ve had on our team. That’s pretty good when you really don’t have upperclassmen to really teach you how to do it, and you have all this expectation and hype. At least from the outside looking in, to me, it looks like he had the weight of the world on his shoulders to start. Looking back now, he’s handled it exactly the way that he should have handled it based on who he is. He’s been really, really good. He’s been himself. He hasn’t tried to be something he’s not, and he’s not bought into what everybody else is saying about him.
I think considering all the things that go along with it, it’s a lot easier no disrespect to Joel – when there’s less pressure. Now Joel feels the pressure that Andrew has been feeling the whole time, and I think Andrew has done really well.
Were you concerned that Andrew (Wiggins) might go another way, in particular with Marcus Smart, at Big 12 media day?
COACH SELF: I would say I had my concerns. My concern with him is the fact that sometimes not sometimes, every day, he may be the most polite kid we’ve ever had here. He is so nice. And he’s nice to everybody, and sometimes you question whether or not we want him to be nice. I mean, nice is okay except for two and a half hours a day. But that’s not it.
I think sometimes the way that we see him in certain situations, it looks like he’s disinterested at times or maybe he’s coasting or what somebody else says should fire him up verbally when he talks to the media, but none of that stuff affects him, none at all.
Looking back over time, he couldn’t have handled it better with all the hype coming in. He just plays. He doesn’t worry about defending himself, he doesn’t worry about talking about anybody else, he doesn’t do anything except just go play. But I know it registers, and I know those things are used to motivate him.
What do you think about Oklahoma State? They’re like seventh or eighth in the conference right now, but are they talent wise the second-best team in the league?
COACH SELF: Oh, I think they’re good. When (Michael) Cobbins went down, that was obviously a big blow. It would be the equivalent of one of our key players going down, so that was a loss. But they’re capable of beating anybody, and they’re certainly capable of beating anybody at home.
Whether or not their talent level – if you’re going to rate them and I have a hard time doing that because I could look at different teams in our league, and based on how we play, who’s the hardest to guard, this or that – but I do think Oklahoma State is right at the top when talking about raw talent in our league.
With Wichita State, there’s a lot of chatter out there, whether it’s on ESPN, fans on social media or anybody else. Some of that you’re probably not in tune with, but some of it maybe you are. Are you surprised by the level of comparisons? Does it almost make it a rivalry without playing?
COACH SELF: You know what, I don’t know because I don’t follow it. I’ve seen certain things I saw something this morning. It had the top line, and of course Wichita State was a part of that, and then it had Kansas as a team that could potentially get to a top line, along with teams that I’m sure can, too. Yeah, those are all realistic. But I’m not hung up on it and I am certainly not looking into what other people are saying or comparing things. The scheduling deals come up way too much. There may be an opportunity for us to play them (the Wichita State Shockers) very soon, sooner than what even a regular-season scheduled game would be played. But who knows if that’s the case? I’m certainly not going to spend any time worrying about that.
As long as you brought it up, is there a chance you’ll change your outlook on scheduling games against Wichita State?
COACH SELF: I don’t want to say never, but we’re pretty locked in on what we’re trying to do from a scheduling standpoint. That’s not a knock on anybody. But without getting into it, I would say that’s probably not on the immediate horizon.
Wouldn’t that be a huge TV game at this point?
COACH SELF: (It) Could be. Who knows who it’ll be four years from now? Who knows? Scheduling is it could be next year, it could be whatever, but we’re going to schedule strictly based on what we feel is best for us. But you know, you bring up a good point. Yeah, it could be a huge TV game, and it could help us recruiting in that area. Could it help as much as if we played in LA or New York or Philly? There’s a lot of things that go into scheduling other than what is the immediate thought amongst fans. I’m going to do what’s best for Kansas; I’m not concerned with what’s best for anybody else or doing something because it would be nice. Who cares about that? You want to do what’s best for your program, and that’s what we’ll always do.
When you schedule Philadelphia or something, what’s the best thing about that recruiting, so the players can come in here
COACH SELF: Possibly, and the other thing is the attention you get in that area. When you recruit like for instance, when we schedule in the Big Ten, we had a presence in Indianapolis, we had a presence in Chicago, we had a presence in Ohio, we had a presence in Milwaukee, Wisconsin and we had a presence in Minneapolis. We had a lot of presence in a lot of metropolitan, highly-populated places because we were in the league. Those things help.
When you schedule and play a Georgetown and teams like that, trust me, it does not hurt at all for us to be able to go in and dabble in those areas knowing that we can sell that. That’s something that I think all coaches across America look at.
I’ve heard coaches a lot of places say, ‘Well, I only want to play at places that we are going to recruit.’ Well, if that’s true, the only reason they say that is because it helps them recruit. But every coach is different, and I certainly feel what we’ve done here has been fairly beneficial for our program.
Defensively how far off is your team from being a “Bill Self in March” defensive team?
COACH SELF: I thought against Texas we were. I thought against Oklahoma we weren’t. So I think we’re probably consistency away (from becoming that). I still think we struggle with making other teams play bad, and that’s something we’ve always done. If you go back and think about when we had our run a couple years ago and go to the championship game, Purdue had us dead to rights, and we made them play bad the second half. We make two shots or three shots outside of two feet against NC State and we win.
You know, the (North) Carolina game, Ohio State game and you’re down 13, you’re not going to outplay them. You’ve just got to make sure they kind of drop their level a little bit. So there are a lot of things that I think that we can do to get to the point where that’s the case, like getting consecutive stops which lead to an 8 0 run and basically the game can be turned in that two minutes. We don’t do that consistently enough.
After you clinched the share of the Big 12 Conference title, I believe you said it was kind of anti climactic. How do you regroup your guys and get focused on the next one?
COACH SELF: Well, we talked about that yesterday. The thing, regardless of what happens from this point forward, although we’ll be evaluated on what happens postseason, you can’t say the kids haven’t done well. You can’t say they haven’t had a good year. Whenever you win your respective league, it’s a good year; I don’t care whether it be the Patriots or the Dodgers or the Cardinals. Over a period of time, when you win your league, that’s a good year, but good years aren’t good enough.
So the whole focus now of course. We want to win it outright – the whole focus is what do we want to give to make this good become great, and what are we going to give to try to make great become special, if we can get to the point where we are really good.
We’ve got a long way to go on that. As you guys know, the difference between being average and good, or average and pretty good, it’s not nearly as hard to get there. It’s really hard to get from good to great and it’s really hard to get from great to special. If we’re not still motivated by that, then we’re not going to motivate our guys.
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I’ve only spent three years in the state of Kansas, and even those were’nt full years, just 2 semesters each year at school. So I don’t pretend to have a finger on the pulse of what drives the anti Wichita animosity, but I don’t get it. I know my friend @nuleafjayhawk really doesn’t like them. Some one fill me in. I am capable of learning to hate a team, see mizery, the cubs and gbpickers as examples, but I don’t quite get it.
I see Kentucky lost again last night to Arkansas, and I’m sure some of their fans wrote the same after we lost to kstate a couple weeks back.
I happened upon a liveblog of the Badgers game the other night. I thought I’d try it out. A few Badger diehards there, but not much else. Who ever was running it felt the need to describe every play, i.e. “Brust misses 20 footer, Yogi rebounds”. It was hard for discussion to develop because of the too frequent updates, updates that were telling all of us what we were watching anyways. That’s one reason why @jessenewell is the best at what he does, and why all of you are the best college hoops fans out there.
Speaking of hoops fans and writing, Keegan decided to write a political piece several weeeks ago about the bill being discussed in Kansas about permitting some discrimination in some cases against gays. What followed was predictable for an article like that. Everyone who was unified in their fanaticism for the greatest college program out there suddenly were being divided by their opinions on the matter. Please don’t start that here by the way!!! Arguing by keyboard is never productive, it’s too easy to name call and not discuss. And I don’t mean we can’t disagree obviously, but it often gets nasty on these types of forums. But rarely does it get nasty here.
And one more thing, time to shut up OSU and their bandwagon fans and win the thing outright tomorrow. Enjoy the skill of Smart, etal, I do, but let’s give them a Stillwater slaughter they’ll talk about for years.
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@wissoxfan83 Since you asked. My hatred of the Shuckers started in 1981 at the " Battle of New Orleans ". Although Kansas beat Kansas that day (anyone else that was there or watched can attest) much more than WSU did, I naturally walked out of the building with a sour taste in my mouth.
Fast forward to Bourbon Street that night. In 1981, I’d been a KU fan for close to 20 years. I’d experienced huge disappointments and losses before, so losing to a mid major team (albeit a mm team that was LOADED with talent and STILL barely beat us) was hard, but not something that could not be overcome. Until the beer started flowing.
Now, I’ve been to Missouri games and their fans had nothing on the WSU fans that night. I understand the exuberance of a nothing, nobody team beating a basketball giant like Kansas, but DAMN - they were some obnoxious, rude, ignorant and generally just not nice people.
And that was just the women and children.
OK - fast forward another 32 years to 2013. I’ve been over the Battle of New Orleans game for at least…5 years. My beloved Jayhawks are out of the tournament and I figure " What the heck, WSU is from Kansas, got a couple of Kansas boys on the team, there’s no reason not to root for them". And I did. I was genuinely excited for them to get to the Final Four and genuinely disappointed when they got beat.
I’M OVER IT!! The anger and hatred is gone !! Hallelujah!!
Until greaseball, slimebag, big mouth Marshall starts calling us Chickenhawks. Really? They’ve had two successful seasons in a million years and he’s calling us Chickenhawks? Not in some jesting, Bill Self’s my good buddy and I need to razz him about this way. No. He genuinely believes that the UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS ( Who, by the way has played THE toughest schedule of anyone in the country ) is afraid to play Wichita State. Great Jumpin Jehosaphat!! And their fans buy into that crap. And they play in a weak, crappy conference. And their coach is a slimeball. And their fans buy into that crap. (repeats are intentional!)
I’m just one guy, I know I don’t speak for many (if any) others. Most people probably like the fact that they are a (state of) Kansas team. I don’t mind being alone in being right ! just kidding. Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion, I don’t like them now - next year when Marshall gets hired away I might.
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@wissoxfan83 Allow me to do my best to describe the anti-WSU sentiment. Just to give you an idea of my “credentials”, I was born in Wichita and grew up in a small suburb just minutes away from the city. I went to Wichita public schools. When I graduated high school, I moved into the city and began attending classes at Wichita State. I accumulated over 70 credit hours at the university. I still live in Wichita. I have attended a few Wichita State basketball games, the last of which were a couple of NIT games during the Turgeon era. So I would say that I have my finger firmly on the pulse of this issue.
Let me also say that despite my Wichita ties, I have been a Jayhawk fan for as long as I have liked sports. As a boy of 10, my grandfather sat down with me and we watched the '88 championship game together while my mom was in the hospital at the time. That memory planted the seed, but I wouldn’t become what I would describe as a “die hard” until the '91 season. Since then, I have watched every game possible, known the rosters, worn their gear, etc.
With that boring history of me out of the way, let’s delve into the issue of why there is such strong anti-WSU venom these days. The quickest and simplest answer is that it stems from a lack of respect from WSU fans, and to a lesser extent coach Marshall. The prevailing cry from their fan base is “KU is afraid to play us.” You can try and explain to them all the reasons coach Self states - that we use home games to generate revenue to fund the athletic department and that any away games are done so in order to give us a recruiting foothold in a different area of the country - but it’s just way too obnoxiously convenient for them to retort to the juvenile response of “play us, or you’re scared.” For a blue blood program to be accused of being afraid of anyone, it is insulting. And they get some of it from their coach, who I believe is obsessed with KU. We don’t want to play them, OK, move on. Instead he is constantly trying to drum up media pressure, maybe even legislative pressure, to get us to play him. He taunts us, saying if he was KU he wouldn’t want to play WSU either (because of the fear factor). He was at a pep rally and uttered the word “chickenhawks.” For all the talk about how KU is scared to play them and they shouldn’t be criticized for their weak schedule, I believe he if spent a little less time obsessing about KU he could have gotten a few more quality opponents on his schedule.
As I said, that is the simplest answer. There are, of course, more nuances to the issue than that. For example, Shocker fans are bandwagon fans. Obviously every sports team is going to have their share of fair-weather followers, but the gold & black bandwagon seems to have a larger than normal portion of bandwagon fans. As I said, I attended WSU in the late 90s and early aughts. There was no school spirit. No support for the team. Even after building a new arena, they still wouldn’t start selling out for years. KU fans in Wichita single-handedly kept local sports bars open during the winter months for years. No WSU fans to be found. Now, they come out in droves like they own the place.
Another thing is that they lack any appreciation or respect for KU’s basketball tradition. Like their bandwagon mentality, it is all about the now. Because they made the Final 4 last year and we didn’t, and because they are undefeated this year and we aren’t, we are “headed down” and they will “continue to rise to the top.” I’ve been told that, or some variation thereof, by countless WSU fans. That their less than 2 full stellar seasons somehow has leapfrogged them ahead of KU in the heirarchy of college basketball. When I have (foolishly) tried to engage them in debate, and have called upon our all-time wins, string of conference championships, Final 4 appearances, possessing the original rules of basketball and inventing the game I’m usually met with “wow, you have to go back that far huh?” or “we don’t care about the past, we’re the future!” It’s nauseating.
Anyway, that’s my own perspective on why there is so much animosity towards the Shockers.
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@icthawkfan316 Thanks for the education. You are dead on about sustaining excellence. Look what happened to Butler once Brad Stevens left. I recall WSU peaked a few decades ago and we got an earful about it at the time. Then they dropped off and things got quiet again. It would be interesting to chart the home game attendance over the past 30 years.
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@icthawkfan316 thank you and nuleafjhawk! So tired of media asking Coach Self about this !! Marshall could learn from him about tact and class!
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That’s just one thing about Self I like. He is a class act and takes the high road when reporters ask him questions about coaches and players from other teams.
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Wow! It sounds like you have had a lifetime of tough interactions with Shocker fans.
I have some experience with Shockers… but I’d call those experiences mostly neutral. I’ve never experienced anything but respect for the history of Jayhawk basketball. Really the only beef I have ever encountered was about our lack of willingness to play. I’ve heard the ‘chickenhawk’ name before… only in reference to not playing them.
I’ve sat at a table in a breakfast joint and hashed it out with an entire table of Shocker fans before. All of them were polite, but I was polite back and started out by commenting how well they are playing and I’ve become a fan on tv, watching their games. I think it helped that I made it clear I wasn’t looking down on their program. This happened about 1 month ago.
Every single Shocker fan, in the end, admitted their deep respect for the history of Kansas basketball. And under all the chest pumping they were hiding pride for Kansas basketball. It’s there, and it is in just about all of them. It just isn’t possible to not appreciate Kansas basketball if you are from Kansas.
But all those fans are frustrated. Their comments: “Why won’t Kansas accept the recent 3-game offer that actually increases seating by 500 over 3 games played in AFH? Kansas doesn’t want to waste an away game to a place where they don’t heavily recruit? How many players are Kansas recruiting in the Bahamas? Is it enough to warrant playing 3 games there? What was their revenue from those 3 games? Uh… wasn’t that little tour an out-of-pocket expense?” I have to hand it to their fans… they are well informed, and extremely well informed when talking about developing this rivalry. I have to admit… that accidental meeting impacted my thoughts on all of this.
What also impacted me was my own competitiveness. I have to admit, I can be over-competitive… to the point where I can put myself in situations where I am an asshole!
So I apologize to everyone in here… if I ever push wanting to play the Shockers too strongly. I do respect everyone’s opinions, but sometimes I can come on way too pushy!
Everyone has their own experiences to draw from and to form their opinions. We all need to respect that… I need to respect that!
I know my accidental collision with a table full of Shockers (naturally I was wearing a Jayhawk tshirt that attracted their attention) must have happened for a reason. I know I largely defused some of their attitudes. They weren’t ready for me to be as complimentary as I was about Shocker ball. They were thinking KU fans must be arrogant and only self-centered. I know I would never have got them to admit how much respect they have for the history of Jayhawk basketball if I hadn’t broken the ice first by complimenting their program.
I have only one sports love that trumps my Jayhawk basketball… and that is love (in general) for the game of basketball! That is why one side of me totally enjoys the heck out of watching the Shockers play… and my other competitive side wants to play them and beat them to a pulp!
Rock Chalk!
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@drgnslayr Thanks for weighing in on a positive interaction with WSU fans. I don’t live in Kansas anymore but I read comments from the papers back there. That is why I thought here we go again, because I traveled to Wichita frequently the last time the program was strong and it was,a bandwagon group at that time.
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@drgnslayr I wish I had interactions like that with Shocker fans, but honestly I don’t. Maybe it’s a generational thing. I’m in my mid-30s, and most of my friends and acquaintances are roughly the same age. Also, I wouldn’t say it’s a lifetime of bad experiences. Until a couple of years ago, they weren’t bad. But success has gone to their head. Plus for most of my lifetime they didn’t have a “bandwagon”, so there weren’t the fair-weather fans to deal with.
I will say that I am not opposed to playing them. I wish we would just to shut their fans up! (hopefully). But I also respect coach Self’s & AD Zenger’s reasons why we don’t.
As far as the trip to the Bahamas goes, that is a tournament. There’s a difference between your regular non-con schedule and the pre-season tournaments. KU could not have banked those 3 games and instead scheduled 3 games in AFH. They couldn’t have scheduled 3 additional road games either. There is a set number of games you can play each year, and the only way to increase that number is with the one “pre-season” tournament every school is allotted. Pretty much every school that can afford it takes advantage of the opportunity to expand their schedule with the pre-season tournament games. And next time someone asks you how many players KU is recruiting in the Bahamas, you answer “all of them”. Because when Self walks into a recruit’s home and says, “well, if you come to KU we play in places like the Bahamas, Maui, Vegas, etc.”, you can bet that’s an incentive.
The other thing about the Bahamas trip is that KU has to make trips like that to compete. Not to compete on the court, but to compete against other blue blood programs for recruits. It’s not all that dissimilar from the building of the apartments for the basketball players. KU couldn’t very well play every pre-season tournament in the Sprint Center and get away with it. So some of the trips are things they have to do, even if they don’t want to (although I don’t think anyone had to twist Self’s arm about the Bahamas trip). Scheduling WSU is not something we have to do to compete on any level, so we don’t.
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@icthawkfan316 Well, let’s not forget that Wichita State plays some pretty darn fine venues as well. What top recruit wouldn’t want to play at Tulsa, St. Louis, Tuscaloosa, Carbondale, Springfield, Chicago, Des Moines, Terre Haute, Cedar Falls, Evansville, Peoria and …drum roll (this is the one that Marshall nails down ALL the top recruits with)…Normal, Il.
I kinda almost wish I hadn’t made that list. Now in addition to not liking them, I feel sorry for them too.
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Yeah… I’m in my mid-50s… about the same age is all those Shocker fans I sat down with. I have to admit… it was a bit nervy for me to do it. Felt like I was walking into an ambush!
Their fan base is unique. WSU is an urban university. They don’t really have any campus life. Lots of part-time students, often older, trying to finish up a degree. I’m sure a big chunk of their younger students are foreign because their big programs include engineering. Their campus is flat, but amazingly stuffed with beautiful artwork! Every few years I drive through there campus just to see if I see more amazing art! I don’t know… do they have a big art program? I’ve heard they are about to expand dramatically… the golf course will completely go away and so they have room to expand their campus. Not sure where the students will come from. My guess… more International students. Seems an odd mix of students, but a big chunk of fans are middle-aged from Wichita. ICT… maybe you can fill us in. Am I right with my assumptions?
Strangely… one of the guys sitting at that big table was an ex-baller. We managed to do one of those “6-degrees” things and traced a mutual ball player friend. The world is a small place! I’m going to try and hunt down that guy after March. Get his impressions… regardless where we and the Shocks finish. I’d definitely like to talk to him if we end up playing.
I miss a rivalry… and I have no desire to start playing the lowly Mizzou Tigers again. We can’t just make a rivalry happen. Playing Duke every year will not make us rivals. We need some animosity between schools and fans. The Shockers are what we have left to dance with. It is what it is…
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Thanks guys, I never met a Shocker fan, but if I do, I will try to be annoyingly rude to them and I’ll blame you. I’ll say something like “you messing with my friend nuleaf, you messing with me, and let me tell you about my cole aldrich look alike friend missing a tooth, he’ll slap the silly out of you.”
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I meanw hat else did they really expect coach to say about WSU regarding a one-seed? No they don’t desrve it because they don’t play anyone? He has way to much class for that. And he is right that we don’t need to play them unless they want to play just at AFH and the Sprint Center. It doesn’t behoove us to play in Wichita when we already have a firm recruting footing in the state.
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@icthawkfan316 “And next time someone asks you how many players KU is recruiting in the Bahamas, you answer “all of them”. Because when Self walks into a recruit’s home and says, “well, if you come to KU we play in places like the Bahamas, Maui, Vegas, etc.”, you can bet that’s an incentive.”
I think you nailed this one right on the head! Yes, AFH is the greatest building on Earth we all know that but come on what’s more exciting than getting a free trip to the Bahamas or Hawaii. Not all of these kids will make it to the NBA and take trips like that so why not do it on someone elses dime and get to do something you love while you’re out there? Playing WSU in Wichita does not accomplish that.
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@HawkInMizery isn’t “behoove” Marshall’s term to describe how we feel about playing them?
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@drgnslayr You are right on your description of Wichita State. It is a commuter school, meaning the majority of the students drive to campus, go to class, then drive home (or to work). Combine that with the fact that there is no football, and you don’t get the true “college experience” attending WSU. It’s one of my big regrets in life, not going away to college. Told myself I was just going to get some gen-ed classes out of the way at WSU then I was off to Lawrence. Just didn’t work out.
There is a large chunk of international (asian) students. If you are to linger around on campus, they are the ones you’ll see the most. Not sure how big of a chunk are middle aged. Maybe, it’s been 10 years since I’ve been in their classrooms. I know they have satellite “campuses” in and around different parts of town, so many students utilize those. It is a strange student base for sure.
I miss a rivalry too. I know we’ve talked about this. I don’t think we can manufacture one with Wichita State. When I think rivalry, I think something lasting. I can’t fathom WSU having the kind of long term success to sustain such a rivalry.
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I think you hit it on the head… question is… can WSU’s success last?
I think it can as long as Marshall is there. But what happens if he skips off to another school?
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@drgnslayr sure hope he does… Far, far away!!!
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@HawkInMizery I just want to thank you for using the word " behoove ".
I agree with everything you say, I just really like the word behoove.
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Do you have a link to the video where Marshall calls us chickenhawks?
I’ve scoured the net and can’t find it. I found a speech he gave a while back and it was long… I sat through the whole thing and didn’t hear chickenhawk, even when talking about KU.
Surely if he said it, it is out there on the net somewhere! Everything else is…
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@drgnslayr I’ve been looking when I get a chance and have not found one either, but there’s so many references to it, it seems as though he must have said something to that effect.
Regardless, here’s an excerpt from the “Men’s College Basketball Nation Blog” from December 18, 2013 that sums up the issue pretty nicely:
“This isn’t knocking Wichita State,” Self told The Star on Tuesday. “But if it was best for our program, I would reach out to them about scheduling them. But it’s not. I’ve heard a lot of talk about them wanting to play us so bad; Gregg Marshall’s never contacted me about playing.”
Hold on, though, there’s more. Self related his experience as coach at Tulsa, when he couldn’t get Oklahoma or Oklahoma State to schedule his team. “And they wouldn’t play,” Self said.“But I didn’t blame them. And I didn’t make a big deal of it.”
This, of course, is surely the attitude that drives Wichita State fans bonkers – and the attitude that gives Kansas fans that extra taste of hegemonic joy: We’re Kansas and you’re Wichita State. Know your place, please. Don’t make a fuss. We’re not going to play you, because what do we stand to gain? Pipe down. Extra-maddening, no doubt, is that they’re right. Even Wichita State fans, who can do no more than turn Marshall’s old use of the term “chickenhawks” into a message board/school yard insult, would have to agree with such an obvious dynamic.
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@drgnslayr I looked, think they erased that part, but I heard it, live!! It was their celebration from winning the NIT.
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I caught that one… it did seem edited even though it was long.
I agree in the sentiment that drives the anger in Wichita. I’m just not sure it is a healthy thing to pull on them. What happens if we play in March and they spank us? It’s not like Self knows how to play Mo Valley teams. And never would he face a more motivated team.
It just seems like we are setting ourselves up for a major beat down and bragging rights for decades. I think we finally almost evaporated the “66-65” smack. Just thinking about that makes me want to chuck lunch.
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@drgnslayr I hope we do play them in tourney!! Welcome it! Coach Self will too. We are not afraid!
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@nuleafjhawk sounds like a plan! You do mean crimson?? Jk
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@Crimsonorblue22 LOL - yeah, that color.
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@nuleafjhawk I love the red too! I was hoping they would have one of their new uni’s in red. Love those new ones and their names, chalk and phog.
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@icthawkfan316 We seem to have a totally different perspective about WSU. Maybe it has to do with age, or maybe things have actually changed in the 30+ years since I left Wichita. I’m 64 and, like you, I also grew up in Wichita, went to public schools. I graduated from West. And also like you, I have loved the Jayhawks for as long as I can remember- and I can remember listening to KU football games on the radio as a kid when Gayle Sayers played- so that goes back a ways. But unfortunately, it wasn’t in the cards for me to go to KU and I ended up at WSU. I got a good education, but it wasn’t KU. Anyway, as far as the WSU fanbase being bandwagon fans? I’d have to respectfully call BS on that one. About the only fans I know of that are rabid even when their teams have been lousy for decades are the Cubs and the Red Sox. But winning creates excitement, and brings the fans out in droves. It’s that way in all sports. Look at the Royals in the 80’s, the Chiefs now, the Mavs after Mark Cubin bought them, etc. Do you actually think that Kansas fans would be as rabid if they just had a mediocre team year after year? Do you think AFH would sell out every game year in year out if they didn’t win? I don’t. Yes, WSU fans are excited now, because they have something to cheer about. They are excited because they’re winning. KU has been winning for generations- like about a hundred years. They know what its like to win and they’re smug about it. (recall the discussion about rushing the floor after a victory) So maybe Shocker fans don’t know how to win with grace, but the kids who go there now have only known one year of success. I guarantee, if you get off this board (with the most intelligent posters anywhere) and get on someplace like ESPN, you will see that KU fans can be idiots too. I used to live in Dallas, and I can tell you that when the Cowboys or the Rangers or the Mavs are winning, EVERYONE is a fan, driving around with pennants out their car windows, etc. But if they’re not in the title hunt, it’s only the diehards who care.
When I went to WSU in the 70’s, it was a commuter school. Not too many kids lived on campus. I didn’t. I was married and had a kid, so the atmosphere is totally different than in Lawrence. In Lawrence, kids are totally immersed in the University and school life. They ooze school spirit. At WSU, kids go to school as a job. They live at home with their parents or live off campus, but their lives don’t revolve around school. Lot’s of people worked full time and went to school around work. I did. Maybe things are different now. Certainly, things could have changed in all this time, but I think the difference between “commuter school” and “college town” is significant.
And “respect for tradition”? How many young people do you know who know anything about history? Any kid at KU who read one of Jaybate’s posts about how this basketball season relates to the invasion of Normandy would say “HUH?” The reason KU students know about tradition is because they walk in to AFH and see banner after banner after banner. Kids could care less about history, To a kid, history is yesterday. Unfortunately, I’m old enough to remember when WSU was only WU, and I can vaguely remember Ralph Miller, (although that’s probably mostly a memory of my dad talking about him), and those who followed him. But I do have a theory about why WSU can’t sustain success, and thus, build tradition.
WSU has always been a mid-major, so coaches come to Wichita as a stepping stone to a big name job. The good ones move up (Ralph Miller to Oregon, Mark Turgeon to TxA&M, and Gene Smithson, in between) and the losers just move on. But it would be pretty rare to find someone like Marshall who would turn down UCLA to stay in Wichita. Wichita doesn’t have the prestige, money or environment to keep someone who could make the big bucks at a big name school. So they get a good guy for awhile, he wins, then he goes somewhere else and the process starts all over again.
So how do they get out of the rut and start to build a tradition? Seems like a pretty difficult proposition to me. They don’t have a football team so that hurts them, since football is the cash cow driving the bus. And I don’t have nearly enough knowledge about conference realignment to suggest what other conference might want them. So they’re left with trying to find big name schools to play them, who have no incentive to do so. It seems to me if they can’t get out of the Valley, they’re screwed. And they will never get the opportunity to build a tradition so they can have smart fans who appreciate history. So, fortunately for me, I love KU. But I wish WSU could get a little of the same magic KU has. And I’m glad to see Wichita be famous for something besides BTK. And I do honestly mean that I “respectfully” disagree with you. I hope I didn’t come across otherwise.
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Sitting here in a spanking new, bright crimson Jayhawk cap & lo & behold the Naismith Award field has been reduced to the final 10 players. Shuckers will certainly be prematurely frenzied over this. But that’s OK, they really never have been there before.
Full Name Class Position School Conference
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Tyler Ennis Freshman Guard Syracuse ACC
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Nick Johnson Junior Guard Arizona Pac-12
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Sean Kilpatrick Senior Guard Cincinnati American Athletic
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Doug McDermott Senior Forward Creighton Big East
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Shabazz Napier Senior Guard Connecticut American Athletic
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Jabari Parker Freshman Forward Duke ACC
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Julius Randle Freshman Forward Kentucky SEC
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Russ Smith Senior Guard Louisville American Athletic
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Fred VanVleet Sophomore Guard Wichita State Missouri Valley…
And my personal favorite…
- Andrew Wiggins Freshman Guard Kansas Big 12
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For some unknown, possibly metaphysical reason the site will not allow me to edit the # 1. in front of Wigs’ name to a # 10. I really did not do that purposely. But that’s OK too.
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@globaljaybird It’s an omen !!
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@Crimsonorblue22 I actually hadn’t paid attention to the fact that he said that but you are correct, I just like the word though! I spend all day going through repetitive scripts, gotta stretch my vocab somehow during the day.
@nuleafjhawk Anything i can do to contribute to the board my friend!
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@oldhwkfan No worries about the disagreement. I welcome lively debate, and we are all KU fans here and I have never encountered anything other than respect here. You are no different.
To me this statement says it all: “if they’re not in the title hunt, it’s only the diehards who care”. I believe that whole paragraph just described bandwagon fans. If you’re only in it for the good times, you’re a fair-weather bandwagon fan. Not sure how you can call BS on that, when you in essence described to a T what it means to be a bandwagon fan.
Yes it is easier to be excited about your team when you are winning. I don’t doubt the level of excitement & rabidness increases when teams are winning. I’m a Raiders fan, so yeah, it’s hard to get excited for football season. However, my allegiance never wavers. I didn’t become a Broncos fan all of a sudden because the Raiders are down. I’m silver & black in my football fanhood. And that’s the difference in a HUGE portion of their fans now. People who had never before been WSU fans, and were in fact KU fans, have now jumped on the black & gold bandwagon. Don’t get me wrong, if those fans are that fickle I’m glad to be rid of them. But to me it’s as maddening as people saying “I’m a KU basketball fan, & a KSU football fan.” To me, when people say that, it means they are a true fan of neither.
Saying Wichita State has always been a mid-major is a cop out. According to Wikipedia, the only conference older than the Missouri Valley is the Big 10, and some very good schools have emerged and moved on from that conference. KU? Cincinnati? Most of the former Big 8, Iowa, Memphis, St. Louis, Tulsa, and most recently Creighton…all former MVC schools. So if WSU wants to mope about it’s situation as a lowly mid-major, I don’t feel sorry for them. They should have moved out of that conference. You say they’ve always been a mid-major, I’d say that conference is a mid-major. That conference is a stepping stone for universities to improve themselves by moving on to bigger & better things, much like the coaches at those institutions. If they failed to capitalize and get out, that’s on them. They probably have missed their window, as not having football really cripples them in today’s conference realignment climate. So you’re right, they’re probably screwed.
As far as their scheduling goes, yes it has to be hard to get teams to play them. I have a couple ideas on this though. First, if I’m WSU, I go up to a few of the big boys and say “we can’t compete with the same level of recruits as KU, but you can. How about a home-and-home series that would give you some visibility in KU’s backyard?” And by big boys, it doesn’t have to be UNC, Duke, Kentucky, etc. But maybe the second tier or third tier of schools after that. The Arizonas, Florida, Ohio St, Villanova, Cincinnati, etc. Maybe that works, maybe it doesn’t. The other thing I think Wichita State should have been doing since the Turgeon years is an idea that ESPN practically handed them with the bracket busters games. Schedule other high-quality mid-majors. VCU, the Brad Stevens Butler teams, Gonzaga, Nevada, etc. A quick look at their schedule this year suggests they may have been attempting a touch of that, with games against St. Louis (their marquee win), Davidson, & Tulsa. And lastly, if you really want games against top-tier competition, you might have to bite the bullet and offer a one game deal at your opponents’ gym. You don’t see KU making return trips to Towson do you? The little guys have to do the traveling to play the elite. The problem is that WSU thinks they are above this now. Well, from a competitive standpoint they are above it. But if you can’t get anyone to play you, the reality is they are not above it. So to me, you can either take a lesser schedule and deal with the criticism, or you can take steps to improve it. Or you can do what Wichita State is doing, and whine about it not being fair.
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“And that’s the difference in a HUGE portion of their fans now. People who had never before been WSU fans, and were in fact KU fans, have now jumped on the black & gold bandwagon.”
Really? Most of the fans I’ve always seen at a Shocker game are 50-somethings… or 60-somethings… I know during games tv wants to show the craziness of the student section, and they show that at Shocker games, too… but I’ve always been under the opinion they have a rather small student section, especially when compared to KU.
I think the older crowd doesn’t shift quickly to any bandwagon. However… I do think many people are buying more Shocker gear because entrepreneurs have been busy pumping out tons of Shocker gear. I’ve seen some of it and sometimes it made me rubber neck… “huh… what the heck?”
Wichita has plenty of KU fans… but most of the town members are Shocker fans. I remember a million years ago going to a Shocker football game there and the stadium was packed. And their team stunk! I’m sure it didn’t always work out that way because they no longer have football.
I keep hearing rumblings that football will return to Wichita. Anyone else hear that?
It doesn’t make sense for anyone in Wichita to be against WSU. WSU brings business to Wichita. And it is the only D1 option for miles!
ICT - you know… I think you are on to something. I know the Shocks don’t want to just come to Lawrence to play for a paycheck… but what if they try to book big boy teams in Sprint? I’m sure there are enough Shocker fans that would love to go up to KC once or twice a year for a game with a big boy team! Maybe if that works, they can eventually work something out with KU. In fact… why not just do an annual WSU vs KU game at Sprint? That pays big revenue to KU and they never have to travel south of the flint hills. I’m certain it would be a big sellout every year and tv dollars would be gigantic!
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I like to write the word “cower”… especially when it pertains to some of our opponents!
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@drgnslayr Well, maybe I’ll quantify that as saying a HUGE portion of the fans I encounter. It is true that a large portion of Shocker fans at the games are 50+ in age. Isn’t that the case with KU games though? Kids don’t have money for season tickets. Heck, I’m no “kid”, but I don’t have that kind of money laying around. You are also correct that their student section is not as large as KU’s. In fact, the local news just did a piece last night about a handful of WSU fans that were camping out in the cold weather for good seats, and there were literally like 3 or 4 tents worth of students.
As for football, that rumor has been going around for awhile. 15 years ago or so I was attending WSU and did a paper (or speech for my public speaking class) about the likelihood of WSU bringing back football. I spoke to a number of administrators, and at the time the prognosis was bleak. One of the main reasons was Title IX, which states that equal funds must be allocated for women’s sports as men’s sports. That includes scholarships, and I was told they would have to create about a half dozen women’s sports just to compensate for the scholarships necessary for the creation of a football team. I really don’t know that they are any closer than they were 15 years ago, but I could be wrong.
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You are the guy to ask… how did they lose their football?
I recall the tragic plane crash, but football was around after that.
KU games have lots of older folks, too… but a lot more students. I angered some people at KUSports a while back for insisting we give the first 5 rows around the court to students. It helps the atmosphere in a huge way! I said that someday we are going to lose our status as having the best basketball game atmosphere because of all the old people sitting court side.
Come on… watch a KU game carefully. Cameras can’t ignore the first few rows around the court. When something happens where the fans are going nuts, it contrasts completely with some of the camera footage that shows old people sitting down and not even clapping. Half of them don’t even seem to be paying attention! It is friggin’ embarrassing! Just because these people obviously are all millionaires doesn’t mean they can just sit there without participating!
I’ve heard several other schools have addressed this by putting students near the court. I know the revenue is an issue… but seriously… doesn’t Jayhawk basketball generate enough money?
Or if the uber rich want to keep those tickets they have to start participating with plenty of energy! We can have spotters in the crowds watching… and when these fans are caught sleeping through games, it goes on tape and they then have to defend ownership of their season tickets. Make them pay gigantic fines for being boring fans! They can afford it… and the fine payments will offset the ticket revenue losses from those who lose their season tickets to students in “ticket court!”
Lets face the facts… the crowd nearest the court is also representing our school. Proper behavior is required!
I loveeeee this idea!
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@icthawkfan316 just saw the news, 5 tents in Marshallville!!!
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@oldhwkfan why do you think Marshall didn’t take the UCLA job?
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@drgnslayr ask Lew Perkins.
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@drgnslayr Well it was before my time, but my understanding was that it just wasn’t financially tenable to keep football around. Now trying to build one back from the ground up has to seem like an impossible task.
You got me curious as to if they had in fact been any progress, so I’ve been looking at articles about them possibly reviving the program. There was apparently an effort to get a club team started by a group of students that would eventually hand over the team to the university, at which point it would be an NCAA team. In response to this movement, Wade Robinson (Vice President for Campus Life and University Relations) was quoted as saying "My suggestion is that everyone who is interested in playing football while enrolled at Wichita State should contact the Kansas Cougars or Wichita Wild to still continue their education and pursue playing football,” That tells me all I need to know about how serious the administration is about bringing football back.
(The Wichita Wild is a professional indoor team, and the Kansas Cougars are a club team that I have never heard of).
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Where is Lew Perkins? Is he still retired? I used to visit with him at games.
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@drgnslayr many WSU fans say Perkins killed their fb program. I don’t know that much about it.
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many WSU fans say Perkins killed their fb program
@Crimsonorblue22 I think they give Lew a bit too much credit…
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Yeech! That link didn’t exactly make Lew sound good. He presented himself well when I spoke with him. It seems that he left a trail of darkness behind him wherever he went.
Kind of hard to imagine how he got that Maryland gig after WSU.
I never understood how WSU landed Lew. Lew always seemed like a east coast mobster.
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@bskeet probably, I don’t really know much about that. Had a high school fb coach from, think heights, told me that too.
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What I don’t like about Marshall is that now, when they are good, he mouths off about playing us. He probably said it when he first got there, but not as loud. And trying to act like it is in our best interest to play them is just so obviously wrong. Also, don’t forget that after they beat us in 81 with all that talent, they went on probation. Pretty serious recruiting violations as I recall.
