So nothing yet?
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@wilson Bingo…this is where the big chill happens by the NCAA. They’ve already frozen or will stall Preston, and now they will sit on Silvio’s eligibility. Once KU completes it’s investigation, the NCAA will then have to provide a final ruling. I guarantee you they will take as much time as KU took with Billy.
I will be shocked if Preston and Silvio are cleared quickly.
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So: today, this situation is completely unchanged from the moment Preston disappeared into the Chronosimplastic Infindibulum, except for Sosinski getting a few minutes.
Cunliffe has shown up exactly as planned is being slowly worked in.
De Sousa, despite my doubts about him being able to improve test scores significantly, is on track to get here near January 1, after which he will be an 17-18 year old big man that will begin learning the offense and trying to get in D1 condition.
Regarding Preston, Self is still saying believe–believe a student-athlete with suspected vehicle ownership issues, will turn out not to have such issues. Believe Preston will likely be back.
But let us recall some things.
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Preston was neither starting, nor lighting things up, when he disappeared and would take a good month month to get back to that level and another month or two to become a credible 20-25 mpg big.
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17-18 year old big men that neither know the plays, nor have ever achieved D1 grade physical condition, are not likely to be able to do more than back up a few minutes each half.
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Cunliffe, despite my early optimism, is a 10-15 mpg back up until next season.
So: our starting 5 is our starting five for the season.
Preston and De Sousa jointly buy us 5-10 minutes of back up each half for Doke.
Cunliffe buys us 5-10 minutes more rest per game for our wings.
My point here is this: how good we can be is how good you think our current starters are with reasonable back ups by March.
Self has been building to this scenario, not toward another kind of team.
The reason for optimism is that with reasonable backups by March, the starters can play a 4-1set at a fairly rapid pace. That should prevent defenses from hamstringing them.
The reason for pessimism is the flaws in the games of some of the starters seem likely to be there in March just the same as they are now.
But either way, with a long bench, Self will be able to begin to substitute a little to make points with players that are not listening.
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Here is an article by Andy Katz about KU and the possible play of Preston and De Souza on the NCAA website.
Here is another by Jeff Goodman about KU with comments from other coaches about KU’s issues.
By the way, DeSouza turned 19 in Octoberand Preston turned 20 also in October, not quite 17-18 year old kids.
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Below is from an article on KU Hoops written by G Bedore
“He was really active and good at practice today,” said Self, who is of the opinion a decision on whether Preston can play this season will be rendered soon. “I don’t anticipate him playing (against Stanford). I do anticipate us getting very close to knowing if and when he will be able to play. I’m pretty optimistic. Our people are optimistic. It’s at the point now it will be out of our hands and somebody else will make the decision (the NCAA).”
Asked how much Preston could play in the Big 12 opener against Texas and/or ensuing league games if he’s deemed eligible to play soon, Self said: “I don’t think he’s done enough for 20, 25 minutes (in a game) but I think in a couple of weeks (he could do that) certainly.”
Self said if IMG Academy senior for Silvio De Sousa is declared eligible soon, “I think he could play some. I think that it would be more of a plugged-in situation until he gets comfortable.”
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@jaybate-1-0 If it helps any I believe Silvio is 19 year old. (Or just slightly younger than Svi as the announcers will likely point out).
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Call me crazy but I’m starting to get the feeling we end up with both of our boys. - Read the article from the LJW this morning and Coach sounds pretty confident even with Billy, says he doesn’t think it’s going to be long - seems like ya it’s going to be a 2nd semester thing for both. Said it will take a bit for adjustment for the guys maybe a couple of weeks for Silvio and a little less then that for Billy. - -I smell the " ROCK " cookin up something really good for the Crimson and Blue. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I used to have a sign on my office door that read…Lack of planning on YOUR part does not constitute an emergency on MY part
I still have that sign hanging up. Plus another one that says a $100 surcharge will be added to your order if you mention that you found it cheaper online.
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I miss the days when people would go out of their way to help one another. Apparently I’m old fashioned.
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dylans said:
I miss the days when people would go out of their way to help one another. Apparently I’m old fashioned.
Who is needing help? - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 who doesn’t?
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@jayballer54 who doesn’t?
lol, - - -I need -LOTS lol - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Good post.
I heard this morning that the NCAA won’t take any time at all to qualify DeSousa. It’s a straight forward deal and he has the same process all incoming scholarship athletes have. It should be a “rubber stamp” moment.
Billy is a different story. My faith is in our compliance department. They know that “time is of the essence” so their info gathering and forms will be gone over carefully to prevent getting held up by the NCAA by having them request additional info. One of those request moments could cost him another month of play.
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The whole Billy Preston thing … he’s kind of like Yoda communicating from the nether world. Just kind of a hologram. Is he a hologram on the bench? Has anyone really touched him to make sure?
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Another website said that we expect to have news on both by the 26th. Silvio for sure by then, Preston is a maybe still, but that if it isn’t by then, soon after.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Here is an article by Andy Katz about KU and the possible play of Preston and De Souza on the NCAA website.
Here is another by Jeff Goodman about KU with comments from other coaches about KU’s issues.
By the way, DeSouza turned 19 in Octoberand Preston turned 20 also in October, not quite 17-18 year old kids.
I am positive you will obediently agree that the difference between 17-18 and 19 approaches absolute zero, when a player has never been through D1conditioning, does not know the plays, has not played a second with his teammates and is changing climates from subtropical Florida to Kansas in January.
I am waiting for submissive agreement!
HOWLING!!!
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dylans said:
@jaybate-1-0 If it helps any I believe Silvio is 19 year old. (Or just slightly younger than Svi as the announcers will likely point out).
I know u mean well, but it doesn’t help me much.
How many years will 19 year old Svi have been practicing and playing for KU on January 1?
How many years will 19 year old Silvio have been practicing and playing for KU on January 1?
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@JayHawkFanToo I used to have that sign too!
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@jaybate-1.0 None, but 19 is much closer to full grown adult than 17. That will help in this case. It won’t make him an instant success, but good God man we’re throwing Lightfoot out there. I want to see something resembling a grown man in the post again even if he isn’t quiet ready for prime time this year.
I’m almost to the point of giving up on this season anyways and his early addition and seasoning is going to be big for next season. I said almost - there is a faint glimmer of hope in these possible additions.
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@jaybate-1.0 I think Svi was brought in too young and it hurt his development.
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I read in a KC Star article that HCBS said the NCAA eligibility offices are closed next week and reopen Jan 3. If true, KU needs to hear by Friday or wait?
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Many appear discouraged about the lack of depth.
I am discouraged about the recruiting dynamics that lead us to this lack of depth.
I don’t expect next year’s seeming greater numbers to really solve our problems either, as so many do.
I will be very happy to get Preston and De Sousa this season.
Next season brings transfers and not one but the sudden, inexplicable anomaly of two 5-Star PGs. This all fills me with apprehension about the baggage that may hit the carousel next year.
As for this season, I am just advocating for tempered expectations regarding what the newbies second semester will actually enable.
All this team really needs from the newbies are subs, so our starters can play hard most of the game.
The newbies could supply that after a month or two.
More than that I doubt.
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@jaybate-1.0 I am discouraged about the recruiting dynamics that lead us to this lack of depth.
$$$
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I can’t recall for sure, but believe Bob Knight was quoted in “College Sports, Inc.” (1990) as indicating a top player back then cost a school willing to cheat about $150k in under the table cash over four years in those days. It’s hard to imagine what just a year of an OAD might cost some schools today!
But my deeper concern is: what if KU we’re willing to cheat and no amount of incentivewere enough to get more than the number of players KU has this season?
I want to believe there is no giving massive incentives to top players going on and that there no embargo of constraining KU recruiting. I want to believe everything is okay. But I don’t ever recall reading that the swamp in college basketball was drained between 1990 and present.
Swamps appear to be difficult things to drain, judging by the tiny numbers of persons actually being indicted and going to jail in Washington, Hollywood, New York, and Chicago, where it increasingly appears crime is rampant, but justice is scarcer than indictments for treason and pedophilia and missing trillions.
America increasingly appears a land where the price of tax relief for corporations and billionaires is swamp expansion, not swamp draining.
To paraphrase “Jerry Maguire…
Show me the convictions, Jerry!
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@jaybate-1.0 I still contend this years dearth of talent allows for next years influx of 5 stars. Wax and wane.
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How much was Ayton paid?!?
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@dylans Apparently enough.
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It’s not that hard to imagine. The FBI put some numbers out there and it’s pretty much widely known that Anthony Davis took 250k.
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@BShark And Billy sits…
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jaybate 1.0 said:
Next season brings transfers and not one but the sudden, inexplicable anomaly of two 5-Star PGs. This all fills me with apprehension about the baggage that may hit the carousel next year.
You are overthinking it. Grimes grew up a KU fan. Dotson wanted desperately to play for a blue blood program. Dotson was targeted and prioritized in his JR year by KU while UNC and Duke closed their heavy PG leans.
jaybate 1.0 said:
As for this season, I am just advocating for tempered expectations regarding what the newbies second semester will actually enable.
All this team really needs from the newbies are subs, so our starters can play hard most of the game.
The newbies could supply that after a month or two.
More than that I doubt.
I would agree with this. I don’t think Preston or Silvio save this team. Just letting the starters get a bit more rest and not having to play Mitch at the 5 could help a fair bit in the long run.
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I find again and again that I underthink it. I underestimate how elaborate the problems of KU and college basketball are. I suspected KU would be short handed again this season, but I never dreamed it would be this acute this soon.
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BShark said:
It’s not that hard to imagine. The FBI put some numbers out there and it’s pretty much widely known that Anthony Davis took 250k.
It’s actually very hard to imagine, because based on the last year of disclosures about corruption in Washington politics and missing monies we know that figures like those you mention are often gross understatements apparently made as effective limited hangouts.
The numbers could easily be 5, 10, or 100 times that. We have no clue really. We just know the numbers released officially tend to incompletely account for the actual magnitude of what is going on.
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@BShark Widely known? I like sources, nice credible verifiable sources. Anything less for a statement like this is speculative, possibly slanderous or libelous, rumor.
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dylans said:
@jaybate-1.0 I still contend this years dearth of talent allows for next years influx of 5 stars. Wax and wane.
This is what board rats have been believing for years now. Sooner or later this recurring appearance of asymmetry in recruiting and the annual constraints it imposes on KU’s pursuit of rings has to become recognized as something more than annual anomalies attributable to weather, girl friends and coaching charisma elsewhere.
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@mayjay Chicago Sun not only reported it, but then doubled down on it after the Davis’ threatened a lawsuit saying they had sources from 3 separate universities that claimed Davis Sr. asked them for anywhere from $125k to $150k.
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Woe is us because we don’t know if or when they’ll approved. Woe is us because the players coming in might take a while to get up to snuff. Let’s end the pity party. So our team will be at their best once we start playing for the Big Cheese - I can live with that.
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dylans said:
How much was Ayton paid?!?
I read somewhere that it was like 500,000 and that the money was already spent. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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BShark said:
jaybate 1.0 said:
Next season brings transfers and not one but the sudden, inexplicable anomaly of two 5-Star PGs. This all fills me with apprehension about the baggage that may hit the carousel next year.
You are overthinking it. Grimes grew up a KU fan. Dotson wanted desperately to play for a blue blood program. Dotson was targeted and prioritized in his JR year by KU while UNC and Duke closed their heavy PG leans.
jaybate 1.0 said:
As for this season, I am just advocating for tempered expectations regarding what the newbies second semester will actually enable.
All this team really needs from the newbies are subs, so our starters can play hard most of the game.
The newbies could supply that after a month or two.
More than that I doubt.
I would agree with this. I don’t think Preston or Silvio save this team. Just letting the starters get a bit more rest and not having to play Mitch at the 5 could help a fair bit in the long run.
if nothing else with Silvio Coach Self can use Him like he did our football walk on the other night. Coach ask him -can you do this? - He responded I don’t know any of it.
Self said then just set a high screen and then roll to the basket. Hell if nothing else Silvio can do that for the first couple of weeks when he is in till he picks up on the offense, do that and get some rebounds, - make some stick back buckets and he will be ok until he can pick up the offense gives us depth and 5 more fouls anyways for a bit. - I think he will be fine. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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jayballer54 said:
BShark said:
jaybate 1.0 said:
Next season brings transfers and not one but the sudden, inexplicable anomaly of two 5-Star PGs. This all fills me with apprehension about the baggage that may hit the carousel next year.
You are overthinking it. Grimes grew up a KU fan. Dotson wanted desperately to play for a blue blood program. Dotson was targeted and prioritized in his JR year by KU while UNC and Duke closed their heavy PG leans.
jaybate 1.0 said:
As for this season, I am just advocating for tempered expectations regarding what the newbies second semester will actually enable.
All this team really needs from the newbies are subs, so our starters can play hard most of the game.
The newbies could supply that after a month or two.
More than that I doubt.
I would agree with this. I don’t think Preston or Silvio save this team. Just letting the starters get a bit more rest and not having to play Mitch at the 5 could help a fair bit in the long run.
if nothing else with Silvio Coach Self can use Him like he did our football walk on the other night. Coach ask him -can you do this? - He responded I don’t know any of it.
Self said then just set a high screen and then roll to the basket. Hell if nothing else Silvio can do that for the first couple of weeks when he is in till he picks up on the offense, do that and get some rebounds, - make some stick back buckets and he will be ok until he can pick up the offense gives us depth and 5 more fouls anyways for a bit. - I think he will be fine. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
I WOULD AGREE WITH ALL OF THE ABOVE EXCEPT OVERTHINKING THIS STRUCTURALLY RECURRENT PROBLEM WITH KU’S RECRUITING.
WE HAVE OBVIOUSLY UNDERTHOUGHT THE PROBLEM, BECAUSE EACH TROUGH IS LOWER AND EACH PEAK IS NOT AS HIGH.
THINGS ARE NOT GETTING BETTER. SELF KEEPS HAVING LESS AND LESS LIKELIHOOD OF REACHING A FINAL FOUR BASED ON HIS TALENT IN COMPARISON TO THE TEAMS THAT STOP US. OREGON CLEARLY HELD MUA LAST SEASON. SINCE 2012 KU KEEPS RUNNING INTO TEAMS THAT HOLD SHARP MUA AND STOP KU COLD BEFORE THE FINAL FOUR.
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@jaybate-1.0 We have 6 new players coming in next year. One was the AAC POY. 19 ppg + 10 boards a game. His older little brother averaged 12.9 + 9 boards a game. Charlie started for a Power 5 team. The 3 we signed were all top 40. Overflow from an overabundance of talent in the market? Does it matter when you have a brilliant coach who is now licking his chops over the prospect of having so much talent on board? I think not. We are LOADED FOR BEAR NEXT YEAR. Keep the faith. Final Fours are coming.
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It looks good on paper going in, but so did the Alexander, Diallo and Preston years.
I am not unappreciative of how good we have had it. 82% to 84% is to die for.
But with the nearly unparalleled success we have enjoyed for nearly 30 years, it sticks out anomalously that we cannot sign the basic pieces required to let Self power to a ring the way Consonants, Cal and Roy have gotten to do. Just plain wrong. Self deserves one to three POWER teams that others have to get lucky to beat instead of KU always being the team that has to get lucky.
Regardless, I will work on my attitude!
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Kcmatt7 said:
@mayjay Chicago Sun not only reported it, but then doubled down on it after the Davis’ threatened a lawsuit saying they had sources from 3 separate universities that claimed Davis Sr. asked them for anywhere from $125k to $150k.
This.
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Researching this was interesting. The original article by author O’Brien was on Aug 5, 2010, on the Sun Times website. It said Davis was likely to go to UK and alleged that rumors were that the commitment cost S200,000. That was removed from the website that day.
The next day, Davis Senior’s lawyer threatened to sue. O’Brien contacted him for a comment, and he said “Thanks for ruining my son.” UK denied the story.
On Friday, the paper published a new O’Brien story that had the new quote about 3 alleged sources from other schools saying Davis Sr. had been seeking the 125 to 150 thou, but not alleging anything more about UK in particular.
The University issued a statement the next week threatening a lawsuit, noting the family and school denials, and seeking a statement specifically retracting all allegations and rumors as not based on credible sources.
No lawsuits were filed. No retractions, either.
A few years later, O’Brien wrote a retrospective about Davis in which he mention that “the Sun Times” had written about the Davis recruiting rumors in 2010, never mentioning that he himself wrote those articles.
Conclusion: I think the Sun Times very cleverly changed the allegation from the UK commitment to general allegations that the dad had sought money from other schools. This converted the original story to a Cam Newton story, and eliminated any allegation about UK specifically. Had Daddy sued, that would have opened his bank records to scrutiny. Whether he received anything illegitimate would have come out. The school no longer had any great harm it could assert, so it had no incentive to sue anymore.
Kuddos to Sun Times lawyers for a brilliant non-retraction/double-down that has still left everyone using those stories as their sources of alleged well-known payments to Davis.
I suspect Daddy got something at least, and he has gone quietly into a wealthy retirement.
Amusing aside: I came across this quote on a Louisville board’s 2014 recap of the Davis rumors:
That . . . sums up the Calipari era at UK. I’m coming to this realization: if that’s what it takes to land the #1 class all the time and to make 3 final fours in 5 years, count me out. I’d rather wait another 27 years for a championship than see the university from which I earned two degrees do business that way.
I didn’t do any follow-up to see what that poster has said following the unveiling of UL’s prostitution based recruiting, or the latest scandal that has cost Pitino his job!
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I say we run and gun and see what havoc we can wreck on the B12-2. Throw Sam, Silvio, Billy (fingers crossed), and even young and the DE out there for 2-3 min bursts before tv timeouts to give the thoroughbreds a reasonable rest and see what we can do through pure offensive fire power. We could very well run teams under the table with our extra boys. Guards win college bball. Let’s see if anyone can keep pace with our guards.
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@mayjay Yeah all of this stuff is very messy. There is no doubt at least in my mind that players get paid.
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@KUSTEVE I like how next year is looking A WHOLE LOT. I have no idea what jaybate is expecting.
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KUSTEVE said:
Woe is us because we don’t know if or when they’ll approved. Woe is us because the players coming in might take a while to get up to snuff. Let’s end the pity party. So our team will be at their best once we start playing for the Big Cheese - I can live with that.
I would take a final four over winning the conference any day of the week. The national media would never shut up about it,but honestly, I don’t follow those yahoos like i used to. I’m much more concerned about our preparation for march and if the guys we need contributions from are developing.
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@mayjay well now that you looked at that, read up on the AD, Kentucky and World Wide Wes connection…
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I am not sure what is the big deal about recruiting. Had Preston not had the car issue KU is doing fine and no one is taking about depth issues. Next year KU has the #2 class with still one more player to get. If KU gets one the players it has been pursuing it will likely move to #1 and this does not even consider the Lawsons and Moore who were all top 40 players and when included it makes up for likely the best class ever at KU.
Considering that in the last 10 years KU has the best record in college basketball while playing in one of the thougher if not the toughest conference means that it has had lots of quality players; you just don’t get to have the best record with average players.
The main factor affecting recruiting is location. As much as we like Lawrence, it is not the preferred destination for the largely urban group that makes up the bulk of the top prospects.
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@JayHawkFanToo Even if we had Preston, this is the thinnest collection of post players ever under Self.
