KU 5-star Freshman Drought Breaking. at PG, Why?



  • Two 5 star PGs in a single class!!!

    It feels like the drought and/or asymmetry is breaking, right?

    Why is it breaking now?

    What has changed?

    Do we somehow owe this all to adidas thinning their own herd? Schools like UCLA have jumped to new brands. Pitino was bounced at Louisville. Is adidas now shipping all its talent from its summer game program to one destination: KU? Is this why KU is suddenly signing 2 5-star PGs in a single class? Or is there something else going on? Are we looking at a strategy change by adidas, or is it multifactorial, or all just luck of the draw.

    Should we expect this to be the new norm?

    Or is this a random anomaly that will not occur again for another ten years, or more?

    I am so pumped up, if something has finally changed structurally and Self can finally field an 8-10 player roster full of non-transfers, non projects, non admissions challenged, and non-character challenged players.

    Rock Chalk!



  • Except for one tournament this summer Dotson has been Under Armor.



  • @jaybate-1.0

    I kind of think it’s much simpler than that. These kids maybe superstars in the making. Yet they are still kids. And with kids comes the in thing. You know what is cool or the flavor of the month.

    Kentucky was the in thing and may still be. Yet this recent recruiting class though is great. Is a drop off from previous recruiting classes.

    I assume the fad is changing for what ever reason and now KU is becoming the in thing.

    Or I could be just full of crap.



  • The stud PGs in this class were spread out around the country. Not just on the coasts or in the deep south.

    Here’s the list of states with top 50 PGs - Minnesota, Tennessee, Maryland, New Jersey, North Carolina, Illinois, Louisiana, Georgia, Florida, Missouri (also one from Canada).

    None on the west coast this year, but the entire eastern part of the country is pretty well covered. Add in some combo guards that are also pretty well distributed across the country, and you have an opportunity for a lot of programs to have a shot at a really good lead guard.



  • We have playing time to offer. The highest ranked on 24/7 is Grimes at 17, and the lowest rated is De Sousa at 31. That’s the sweet spot - guys that might not rush to the NBA after a year. Let those 4 hit their sophomore years, and we might be in the running for back to back national championships.



  • Jaybate 1.0 said:

    Two 5 star PGs in a single class!!!

    It feels like the drought and/or asymmetry is breaking, right?

    Why is it breaking now?

    What has changed? And “DDoubleD” (??} said basically the same thing … . Both of you are talking about “GUARDS”.

    The ANSWER IS SIMPLE … TWO THINGS What happened last year that was significant ??? POY … Frank Mason (Guard) … and HOF … Coach “Self entering the Hall of Fame” !!! What incoming Guard would NOT want to play at K.U. ???



  • Also, the ongoing FBI investigation has probably given pause to some of the prospects about programs that are suspected of being dirty, such as Kentucky, Arizona, Auburn and Louisville and are selecting safe program such as KU and Duke and even Vanderbilt.



  • I don’t think Kansas gets the cool factor the same way a UNC or UCLA does. However, guard play at Kansas has gotten a MAJOR perceptual upgrade the last two years with our 4-1 and POY. We used to be a team of Cole Aldrich’s and Wayne Simiens but now we’re Frank Masons! RCJH



  • @JayHawkFanToo Is Duke safe? I’d assume they get whomever they want based upon rep and media coverage and the influence they can offer, but that 9 stack mcd aa’s and K’s about face on his one and done policy does make one say hmm.



  • Well just a guess but turning a Towson commit into POY and a draft pick probably helped in this department.



  • @approxinfinity

    Duke has a pretty clean record and FWIW has a geat academic reputation and a desirable East Coast address. With the MSM help, his reputation as a top coach and his involvement with the National teams he has had an unfair advantage; Coach Ratatuille is way too sanctimonious for my taste but likely does not need to cheat to get top players.



  • @JayHawkFanToo Inclined to agree, but would like that hypothesis verified.



  • Don’t forget Embiid and Wiggins tearing it up in the NBA adds extra exposure to the young folks. Particularly Joel’s outgoing, social media savvy stardom.



  • @approxinfinity For all the constant comments made about how we “know” how Cal gets OADs to UK, or suspicions about Duke, we need to remember that there are zillions of people out there who think the same about Self and KU.

    On your specific point, how exactly would one go about verifying that the 9 McD AAms were not lured to Duke?

    How does anyone prove a negative? This is why I refrain on spreading rumors or making flat accusations about other coaches, and why I wish people would show the same discretion about ours.



  • @mayjay

    In the case of the squid, having his two previous programs with vacated Final Fours make a reasonable person think there is a pattern, wouldn’t you agree?



  • @mayjay valid point. By wanting it verified, I mean that I would like people to hold Duke to the same standard and investigate their program as much as everyone else’s. Just as I would hope that UNC isn’t given a double standard on academics because they are UNC.



  • @approxinfinity Hey, my tag line has disappeared. Help!



  • @KUSTEVE why does that happen to just you?



  • @Crimsonorblue22 Apparently, he is alway “it” in our game of tag-line.



  • @approxinfinity I see no evidence that they are not investigated like everyone else. That is just an assumption.



  • @JayHawkFanToo Both times, it involved an individual player whose shenanigans were the reason for the retroactive ineligibility determination. I don’t think the Rose test has been connected to Cal, and Camby accepted money and jewelry before his F4 appearance from 2 agents wanting to represent him. Hard to connect that scenario to Cal or see how it should tar him. Didn’t we have a few players get impermissible benefits–just not when it would have voided a F4?

    At least the Rose thing occurred in connection with his ability to qualify, and therefore one can be suspicious of UK involvement, but the Camby thing, as slimy as it was, seems unfair to leave on Cal’s doorstep.

    And, I should note, I don’t like him, so it pains me to defend him.



  • @mayjay

    Plausible deniability, the squid’s specialty. When WWW is involved and has free access to the program and players, you know something is going on that is not exactly kosher. Do you recall the money sent by FedEx? Do you think he did not know about it? Nobody got fired over it that I recall so there is an implied complicity and protection of the parties involved.

    • the paragraph above is not related to Calipari but Sutton.

    The law will eventually catch up with him.

    Having said that, I agree with you that so far he has not been caught personally but, do you think he gets all these top prospects just because he is a good coach? Coach Self is a better coach at an elite program and has to sweat bullets to get the players he does.



  • @mayjay Whether they have been investigated / monitored and been deemed above board or have not yet isn’t a position I’m attempting to establish with my comment. I am only trying to state that I would like to see it. I have not seen proof that they have been investigated thoroughly and I would like to. Is the public being inquisitive and wanting greater transparency something that makes you uneasy? Should the public assume that a powerful school with the media in their back pocket and deep Nike ties is being monitored closely enough without evidence? Maybe it’s out there. I just haven’t seen it. I wonder if our current political climate regarding demands for investigations from all sides isn’t making this a bit more heated that it normally would be.



  • @JayHawkFanToo Maybe I am missing something. You do realize, I hope, that the money package case was in 1988-89 under Sutton? I think Cal is their 4th coach since then, but sure, he must have known. (Was there a different case you are referencing? Because that actually was an Emery Freight package; Sutton resigned; Wayne Casey resigned; and one player was barred for life.)

    I am guessing you are willing to impute knowledge of evildoing to Cal that you do not impute to HCBS.

    And your statement that we just have to know something is going on is precisely what people say about “Dollar Bill.” Which is my point.



  • @approxinfinity I think you should give Duke precisely the same benefit of the doubt that you do anyone else, including us. How, precisely, can anyone discover how much any program has been investigated? What would meet your standards if you, as you say, would like to see the evidence of their having been investigated?

    I am not reluctant or hostile to the idea–I just think demanding proof they have been cleared is a meaningless exercise because it cannot and will not be done.

    Personally, I want proof Alabama has been investigated in football. Why would so many people want to go to that mosquito-ridden state for so many decades?



  • @Crimsonorblue22 Are you suggesting “operator error” ? This is what my tag line says:

    Looking to improve that 82.7 % prediction record this year. TGIF. In other news, a man is being evicted in Clearwater, Fl due to the fact he never revealed he had an emotional support squirrel.

    I have waited for days to tell all of you about the emotional support squirrel. Free my taglines!



  • @KUSTEVE It MAGICALLY REAPPEARED!!! Oh wait…it was “operator error”. I had it in the about me section instead of the signature box. So it was just me. Thank Heavens I got to the bottom of it - there’s an emotional support squirrel out there that needs rescuing.





  • @KUSTEVE 🕵



  • @KUSTEVE lol. I have no idea what is happening with it and won’t be able to look until tomorrow. Sorry it’s playing tricks on you 🙂



  • @mayjay this is where I equate it to our current political climate. I don’t necessarily need proof of specifics that were investigated, but I need proof that an organization in whose integrity I have complete faith has investigated (maybe monitored is the better word) and found them to be operating in an ethical manner. But I’m not sure such an organization exists or is empowered to do so, and I don’t have faith in the school regulating itself. So barring having an organization i can trust, this makes the thought of transparency of output of the investigation more appealing. And I think we can agree, that’s a path that is much more difficult to navigate as everyone wants their own facts and has their own stances on the particulars.

    While this Preston situation is unfortunate,it at least gives me faith that we are monitoring ourselves.

    Beyond all this, doing away with the one and done rule would solve 90% of the problem.

    And I get where you’re coming from. The current paradigm is just not maintainable.



  • @approxinfinity Too funny…lol. It was me putting the signature line in the “about me” box. My 6th grade education comes in handy.



  • @approxinfinity They just had a story out this week about the end of the one and done. Under the proposal that is floating around now, high schoolers could go straight into the NBA, and if they go to college, they have to stay two years. Me likey.



  • It’s only a wild hunch, but don’t the good guys in the FBI currently seem a little too busy with their own reputed rogue elements, and with similar reputed rogue elements in some of the 17 US intel entities, plus same at Foggy Bottom and DOJ, to stay strongly focused on a reputed D1 petroshoeco/coach bribery problem?

    The recent speculation I have read is either:

    a.) Sessions will try to head off a nearly failed state apparatus by having a counsel of special prosecutors investigate Special Prosecutor Mueller, Comey, Sessions, Rosenstein, Lynch, Clinton, both Podestas, Abedin, Awan, Flynn, Manafort, Kushner, Popadopolous, and a likely enormously long list of sealed indictments made and looming regarding Neocons and Neolibs tied deeply into starting our country down this slippery slope of treachery and possible treason; or

    b.) Trump forces Sessions out and appoints Secretary of Labor Acosta the new Attorney General (to avoid a confrontation process) and Acosta replaces Rosenstein, Mueller and takes on active oversight of ALL investigations.

    I just don’t see how the FBI could feasibly conduct business as usual right now out in the metaphorical provinces.

    But I’m only a layman fan.

    Rock Chalk!



  • @mayjay

    I have corrected my post to reflect the statement I wrote did not apply to Calipari but to Sutton.

    Again, don’t you think the presence of WWW and the access he has to players raises humongous red flags? Would yo be comfortable with WWW having the same access and influence at KU? I certainly would not. Have you ever wondered why he gets all these top prospects? Is he that good of a coach? He has had considerable more higher rated players than just about every other program including KU and yet he has the same number of titles as Coach Self and less than Coach K or Roy Williams so that is not it.

    I know he was not directly implicated in the issues that resulted in the two programs he coached before having Final Four appearances forfeited, I have posted thay much before in previous threads; however, he was the head of those programs and is ultimately responsible for any thing that went on there.

    I understand that in a court of law what you know to be true and what you can prove are two different things; however, this is a sports forum and not a court of law and we are not attorneys but sports fans, perhaps for a moment you can forget you are an attorney and cut us some slack and let us state our personal opinions without having to provide proof…they are just opinions after all and no one is stating them as facts, right?



  • @approxinfinity It gives me faith on our self-monitoring, as well. More and more evidence stacks up that Self is a high, high character guy that demands the same from his staff. I mentioned this when the bribery charges were initially discussed – that’s what worries me. Prosecutors love targeting the folks that are at the top, on the moral high ground. I thought Self and coach K should be concerned. I still do, given the methods involved with this initial prosecution.

    The discussion by @jaybate-1-0 above regarding why folks might have time for this with other matters now at hand – it’s headlines. It’s how the prosecutor gets appointed to the Federal Bench (for life, no less), or gets an Attorney General appointment. Federal prosecutors don’t get paid a lot by private attorney standards. They are in it for other reasons. Career advancement and prestige are part of that equation.



  • @Red.Rooster exactly right. PG FM is consensus POY.



  • @jaybate-1.0 😉 I was wondering what you thought about this man.

    So now we need to see a couple of 5 star centers, with the same prerequisites, commit to KU now, right?


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