Which Game Will Andrew Wiggins Go Off for 40 In?
Wiggins is clearly in a slump the last two games. He let it get to him in Austin. He fought through it and helped the team in other ways in Waco. So he is going to come out of it sometimes over the next 3-4 games.
Andrew has scored as many as 29 points without really taking a game over. He puts his prints all over a game or two, but he has yet to explode like BenMac did, or for that matter like EJ did. I believe Andrew will do so. I believe he has a tremendous amount of energy building up in him. I believe the learning curves of playing Self Ball with the team and of just how tough it gets in D1 are starting to level off and so from here on it is just a matter of time before he transcends a game.
I say its 3 games from now.
drgnslayr last edited by
The key is he continues to help the team out regardless if he nails shots or not.
Then when his shot returns, he has to make sure and still do the other things he was doing when his shot wasn’t dropping. He shouldn’t trade one for the other. We’ll need him to be productive on both sides of the ball in March, but in the least, he needs to keep up on rebounding and defense.
nuleafjhawk last edited by
@jaybate 1.0 Points or minutes ?
RockChalkinTexas last edited by
Next Sat., the 15th, when TCU comes to AFH is the most logical but would love to see it against a more worthy opponent like vs UT on Feb. 22.
JayHawkFanToo last edited by JayHawkFanToo
It is highly unlikely that Wiggins will score 40 points. Unlike other teams that heavily rely on one or two players for the bulk of their scoring, KU has several scorers and a more balance offense that does not lend itself to one player having a monster game. Wiggins is an unselfish player and I cannot see him taking the number of shots needed to get to 40. On the other hand, I can see Mason getting hot and taking very available shot and possibly getting to 40
KU’s offense has seemed to be getting less and less diversified each game recently. There tends to be one guy that gets going and Self plAys through him, so no this idoes not appear to be shaping up as a spread it around every game team like in '08. Rather, this team takes turns with players having big games. Soooooo that’s why I was thinking a great scorer who has been up to 29 already while trying to learn the ropes, might have a monster game.
And players having one or two monster scoring games in a career has been a phenomenon of self Ball most years. So since Andrew is arguably the most talented perimeter scorer Self has had, it only seems logical that he would explode for a much bigger game than 29.
VailHawk last edited by
National championship game against Wichita State?
“KU’s offense has seemed to be getting less and less diversified each game recently.”
I totally agree with that!
We are starting to play that spacing game… where we think that just moving the ball quickly, from side to side on the perimeter, will suddenly create offense. I’ve been getting a little taste in my mouth of other teams we had with stagnant offense… three perimeter players passing back and forth and all 5 players basically not moving around.
Offense needs to be fluid. Most of the players need to be in a constant state of motion.
Andrew Wiggins could easily punch 30 ppg with just a tiny change. Instead of him setting up on offense on the perimeter, just waiting to get the ball and then look at his defender and see if he can take him one-on-one… Andrew needs to be playing his game off the ball. While our 1 and 2 are playing catch back and forth, Andrew needs to be darting diagonally through our interior players, which creates big multi-player screens. Usually the other teams’ interior players will screen for Andrew every bit as much as our interior players! Then he pops out of the pack and he is wide open… either in mid range or at the 3pt line!
This would be the first time all year where we actually use his foot speed to create an advantage!
His potential is totally being wasted now.
In years ahead… Andrew will learn the pro game so well that he will understand the single inch of scoring space he needs to score. All the great scorers develop this skill. It allows them to usually stand around and then score once they get the ball because they know just the single inch of scoring space they need. Andrew isn’t playing at that level yet. He needs plenty of space to feel comfortable on his shot… and he still needs some extra space to prevent someone from blocking his shot.
The way for him to get the space he needs at his current skill level is to hustle (off ball) more on offense by running through the post clutter and popping free on the other side. Yes… it requires more running… but it is the sure way where he can receive the pass with plenty of scoring space!
Oh, and with Joel’s production and mpg reduced from playing injured with a brace, it seems to shift the burden of scoring to fewer players and more to the perimeter, where Andrew plays. Lastly, Self seems in process of shifting Andrew to the 2 where he should have even greater MUA for scoring and less muscle and fatigue on defense. It all seems to point to some monster Kobe kinds of games sometime soon.
@drgnslayr , I think Self’s move of Wiggins to the two is his first step in moving in the direction that you would like to see. We are soon going to begin to see him impacting Games in the fashion of BenMac coming off screens and some cutting through the clutter. Andrews days of having to mix it up with strong 3s and helping with bigs are fading. Self has apparently decided that Silden can do that better. And that Wiggins can create from the two better than Selden. I think the move makes a lot of sense. Of course, I am biased because I called for it on the heels of you advocating for more Kobe style game for Andrew.
I don’t see Wiggins getting 40. Even if you argue that we are less balanced than before…we are still balanced enough. 30? I’ll buy that.
Crimsonorblue22 last edited by Crimsonorblue22
@Hawk8086 I’d just like to see Wiggins and Embiid combine for 40!
bskeet last edited by bskeet
Can he score 40? Yes.
Will he score 40? Probably not.
He’s not asked to score 40. Kobe is. McDermott is.
Wiggins’ role on the team is different. Self likes teams with balanced scoring-- where there’s a threat from every position. And why not? That was the formula for success in 2008.
I think we will see him score 30 but probably not 40 unless it’s a game with an overtime or two.
I think Andrew views success as positive numbers in as many categories as possible and no turnovers. His line from Baylor shows his focus on the whole game:
- 14 points on 4-13 shooting
- 2 blocks
- 0 turnovers
- 3 steals
- 1 foul
- 5 assists
- 7 rebounds
His shooting will improve, but his focus and impact is on all aspects of the game.
JayHawkFanToo last edited by
Very nicely put, excellent post.
REHawk last edited by
Whether 13 points or 40, in Andrew Wiggins the Jayhawks landed a quality recruit who has come to value all aspects of the stat sheets. At this stage of the season, and of his career, he can ease off the pedal on nights when he cannot buy a hot hand…or when defenses are stacked to prevent his signature moves with the ball. He voices pride in developing into a more complete player on both sides of the midstripe. In every contest AW seems to engage in some form of jawdropping maneuver or athletic aberration. Just as fans and posters have come to take in stride his 17/19 performance or his 60+ ft. buzzerbeater, it will not surprise many of us if he does go off for 40 pts. before early April…even though that might not be in the cards per customary Bill Self Basketball. But then, Andrew is certainly not to be reckoned with as a “customary” Bill Self recruit…
I don’t understand the line of reasoning that Self players don’t beast offensively.
Julian, who couldn’t shoot a lick went off for 30+ once or twice, didn’t he? And Wigs HAS to be more dominant than Julian, right? And Julian’s teams had Rush and Chalmers.
BenMac went off for 30+ a couple times and Wigs has got to be better than BenMac, right?
Heck, poor old Bad Mouthed EJ went off for 39 once. Surely Wigs is more dominant than and so more likely to beast for at least 39 than EJ, right?
I sense you aliases are kind of underestimating and making excuses for Wigs good but not great numbers so far this season. Imagine if Wilt had put up Andrew’s numbers so far. Would anyone even remember Wilt?
I am more optimistic about Wigs than some of you. I think that line of Wigs in the Baylor game was pretty weak for a player of his caliber. I think a lot of his lines have been pretty weak. But I think he has gotten better and he was just slumping with the transition from 3 to 2. Change is hard. Wilt and Danny never had to make such a big change. But the change, change, it will do him good, as Sheryl used to sing. And I think Wigs is going to find himself at 2 and start fulfilling expectations with a few offensive beasts (unless he has been hurt all along, which is always possible).
Go, Andrew, go!
Show these over protective aliases you can still soar now that you know how rough D1 really is!
Beast for 40!
P.S.: if Joel has to play hurt the rest of the season, there LIKELY will come a game or two in the madness where KU WILL NEED Wigs to beast for 40. Best get one under his belt before then for practice!
nuleafjhawk last edited by
I’d rather have 5 guys go for 20 ea…
And make free throws !
drgnslayr last edited by
“I think Self’s move of Wiggins to the two is his first step in moving in the direction that you would like to see. We are soon going to begin to see him impacting Games in the fashion of BenMac coming off screens and some cutting through the clutter.”
I hope so! I think you are right!
KUSTEVE last edited by
@jaybate 1.0 The 2nd half against Baylor was telling. I think he learned to relax, and just play, instead of worrying about being 1 for 9. The half court shot … was a message from God that said, “you are oozing with talent. Simply relax, and you will do great things.” He looked mentally strong the 2nd half. It showed in his face. This wasn’t a scared guy worrying about what everybody would say. this was a guy ready to prove something. His game had an extra step, and he made some amazing plays. This guy’s story is just beginning. How about he drops 40 on West Virginia?
FarSideHawk last edited by
@drgnslayr Off topic, but would love to see you do a mid season comparison KU vs Kentucky players like you did with BBall2012 before the season.
Wonder how you think our talent/team compares with them after seeing them through 20 games.
I’ve been thinking about it. I usually catch Kentucky games, but have missed the last couple. Missing just two games makes me put a question mark over what to expect. They are a bit like Kansas, but with even more freshmen. You can watch just a half of Kentucky basketball and either see nothing impressive, or you see a big run and also experience one of their players breaking through a barrier… figuring out how to achieve something in D1. We’ve seen it happen with Wiggins and Selden… and several times with Embiid.
So it is easy to update match-ups… more difficult to make a prediction. All of those star freshmen (on both sides) are down as a ‘maybe’ in March. The result details of a game have too many possibilities to predict.
Right now… to be honest… the surprise player of them all (over both teams) isn’t a star freshman. It’s star junior, Naadir Tharpe. We’ve suddenly found his ‘on’ switch and when it is ‘on’ he carries us to victory! Tharpe owned Baylor. Guess the question is how many more times will Tharpe put his big boy pants on again? Will his light stay ‘on’ every game now, through March?
With Tharpe ‘on’ we possess a threat from the 3-line. Defenses eventually have to go get him. When they start doing that our game changes and our options on offense start opening up. By the time mid-February comes around, a lot of teams will put up pretty solid defense. Successful teams need a consistent tool they can pull from their belt that will conquer solid defense. Often times, it’s these teams that start surging around March Madness. It’s the teams that are starting to play sound defense, but also have a good offensive weapon that can tear apart another team’s solid defense. That’s the kind of edge you want to be good at as March approaches…
FarSideHawk last edited by FarSideHawk
@drgnslayr Yes, I agree. I have seen a few Kentucky games, not all. But it seems like the talent edge that was believed to be Kentucky’s has somewhat tilted towards Kansas.
PG - Clear edge was on Harrison, and it still maybe due to size, but Naadir has closed the gap.
SG - Selden hasn’t set the world on fire, but neither has the other Harrison.
SF - I haven’t seen James Young play much, but he has had some break-out games, so not sure if Wiggins still has an edge here or it is even.
PF - Randle has been a beast, and you have to give him the edge over Ellis I think.
C - This has been the biggest rise on Kansas’s side. Embiid has surprised everyone and gets a definitive edge over either WCS or Dakari.
As a team, Kansas seems to have come farther than Kentucky, but they are coming around as well.
Bench - not sure. Kansas is doing well, but don’t know enough about KY
Coaching - Maybe bias, but have to go with Self.
I wasn’t surprised with Embiid’s progression… I think most of us in here thought he would make a big leap. I think it is more the crowd outside of Lawrence, who weren’t paying attention.
Tharpe wasn’t supposed to be a scoring machine. I recall Keegan said we never have to count on him for a single point. Well… glad he’s provided more than assists! I guess probably 3 games he has taken over and won. Imagine if we were siting here with 8-losses and behind Texas in the B12 standings?
Even with the bigger guards at Kentucky, if Tharpe can belt deep 3s he’ll shoot over length unless they play out, and if they do that then they will expose their foul-prone interior for us to attack. We have the same issue with our post and need good guard play to add a protective layer around our post players.
HighEliteMajor last edited by HighEliteMajor
@FarSideHawk Ok, I’ll make it easy
PG - Advantage KU. Harrison is unreliable and inconsistent. We have a two headed monster – one becoming a dead-eye three point shooter and the other a master of getting the ball to the hoop.
SG - Advantage KU. Selden has more intangibles than the other Harrison twin. He’s won games for KU this season. Aaron Harrison has not done that.
SF - Advantage KU. Wiggins has the upside to dominate a game, explode for 30, and play top tier defense. Young is a good player, but Wiggins is in a different league.
PF - Advantage KU. Both Ellis and Randle can score. But this is about tourney time. Ellis has experience, he’s been through it before. Randle is a load, but Ellis is the better bet to provide a consistent tourney performance.
C - Advantage KU. Embiid over Willie Cauley Slacker Stein and that other dude is not even a debate.
Bench - Advantage KU. Our second five beats any other second five in the nation.
Coach - Advantage KU. Self always wins. Cal wins when things go right. Self prevents the valleys. Cal has not been able to do that.
Now, I’m going to take off my crimson and blue glasses and take a nap …
@jaybate 1.0 Ive been wondering the same thing! I really feel like its gonna happen but when will it?
@jaybate 1.0 Wouldn’t we all absolutely Love to see him go off for 40 15 & 6-7 in the NCAA’s one game? Particularly the big one.
@jaybate 1.0 The 40 points also implies that those who believe this will happen, also think he will break Ben’s freshmen single game scoring record.
I like your optimism!
But seriously… if these two teams played 10 games against each other in March… what would the outcome be?
6 games Kansas, 4 Kentucky?
I like to crunch my head around probabilities… but to be honest, this is a tough one. First… we are a good month out still. Both of these teams are improving rapidly, plus there is the chance for injuries and other issues between now and then. Just running through a lineup giving advantages doesn’t nail down a game outcome prediction. It will be more about the synergy the teams bring to the game.
If we can throw out the Texas game, I like our synergy, and I like it better than Kentucky’s. And Kentucky doesn’t have the total beast interior that gives our guys trouble (like Texas has). Randle is a beast… but that is on offense. His defense sometimes vanishes completely. I’m keeping an eye on Johnson to estimate where he will be in a month. I’m not worried about Willie C.
The key for us is to keep Perry and Naadir pushing hard. That’s our big advantage because these guys are about the only ones who have seen March territory before (on both teams).
I give an advantage to KU because of Perry and Naadir… no other reason. Wiggins, Selden, Embiid… are all very capable of becoming invisible in March. We’ve now seen all 3 vanish during games! So you can’t count on any of them in March… you just hope they show up, at least some of the time!
@jaybate 1.0 Here’s another thought on Wiggins. If his shot isn’t falling he impacts the game in many ways. He is getting better at doing that. He can tell himself Im gonna lead the team in boards, or steals or assists and he can do it. Has he lead us in assists yet this year? I don’t think so but I bet he could.
@VailHawk My son looked at the current project Tournament brackets, and WSU’s bracket is absolutely LOADED with yearly tournament-type powerhouses. Obviously things and brackets may change, but it doesnt look too good for the Shocks…
I think the Shocker starting 4 can play with anybody, but a couple of those key 4 guys with a couple of quick fouls (=bench), and their whole game suffers…and all it takes is 1 such game. Just think of 2008’s “Davidson game” for KU. All that talent + experience + coaching cred…and it would have been all for naught if it wasnt for Kaun, a limited skill big, and the gods mercifully allowing a forced buzzerbeater 3 to miss…
Ha! Regarding KU vs. KY… I would agree with HEM’s assessment (why does that keep happening?), especially KU’s Bench. Yes, capitalized. Consider:
Man, considering what you all have already seen out of each player, along with the chemistry between Traylor and Black…those five truly could beat anybody’s second five. Probably are a top20-30 team by themselves, which means a Tourney team. Size, brawn, shooting, penetration, fair defense, height (not small ball), and a definite tenacity & orneriness to a few of the players. And no mention of Frankamp, Lucas, Wesley…(role players).
icthawkfan316 last edited by
@ralster Gone are the days of having KY & Connor as our only bench, huh? (no disrespect to either player). Just imagine if Self had this kind of depth in '12.
JayHawkFanToo last edited by
All KU needed was for McLemore to be eligible, instead of sitting out the season, and likely there is another banner at AFH.
REHawk last edited by
@ralster If Selden and Embiid stay (and White), just imagine next year’s bench!