Bill Self: Colonial Athletic Association Raider

  • Jack Whitman of Bill & Mary Jane is not the first player in the Self Era from the Colonial Athletic Association (CAA) to transfer to KU to ball on the Naismith cellulose.

    Frank Mason of Towson State (well, he backed out of a Towson commitment, right?) was the first to pull the CAA---->B12 switcheroo.

    That worked out okay, didn’t it?

    National POY.

    Hell yeah!

    So ol’ bate 1.0 has a leeeeeeeeetle hunch about what’s going on under the surface of this apparently improbable coincidence of Self bringing two CAA players in the succession of a decent interval.

    Self has now apparently conceded that the adidas conveyor is NEVER going to bring him any top 1s and 5s, and maybe even fewer and fewer 5-star and 4-star types at those positions.

    But what to do about it?

    Self threw everyone a knuckle ball with the sibling transfers from Memphis. Everyone thought: oh, well, Self has gone back to the Graceland well to become a raider of unhappy Memphisto players.

    WRONG! That was an anomaly. Just like Tarik Black was an anomaly. Josh Pastner is gone. Once Tubby gets his guys in Graceland, they won’t be leaving.

    Self will take anomalies anytime, of course.

    But what is really, really, REALLY going on here is that Self needs a system.

    And what might be that system be?

    Well, I’ll give you a hint.

    It has to do with becoming a raider.

    I hypothesize Coach Self has decided to become Mr. CAA Raider.

    Whoa, Mistuh CAA Raider? Bate 1.0, are you mainlining some of dat new Syrian shit dat ISIS (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) be dumping into da Windy City dat be spikin’ dey crime stats, since dey MOAB-ed the jack outta the underground junk labs in Middle-Uh-Nowhere Afghanistan?

    Most definitely not.

    But what I am suggesting does follow a vaguely similar principle.

    An’ whut might dat be?

    Well, when TPTB apparently deny Coach Self his 1 and 5 OAD and 5-star junk, and when the 4-star junk even begins to dry up, or move on, well, then Coach Self has to change supply. You dig?

    But sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-it, Bate 1.0, the CAA?

    Yup, the CAA.

    Think about it.

    CAA members and partial members have been giving majors fits for years in the March Carney. Just look at some of the schools in the CAA.

    George Mason University.

    East Carolina University

    Old Dominion University

    University of Richmond (remember the Spiders?)

    St. Francis University

    Virginia Common Wealth


    Rhode Island

    That’s a veritable murderer’s row of first weekend upsets of D1 majors in the tournament.

    Recall how many times KU has had a tough half against teams like those, once in awhile even been upset.

    Everyone of those teams always appear to have at least one or two guys that could play some back up rotation minutes for KU’s 8-10 man rotation, and it seems especially so now that Self can barely get a whiff of 5-star and 4-start players at 5.

    And half of those school’s probably have one 1 that could back up whatever Self signs at the 1.

    Self grew up watching Barry Switzer be the Red River Raider at OU. Barry probably got in a big Eldorado and carried his pappy’s bootlegger’s equalizer and some pints of sour mash and raced over the Red River Bridge on I-35 after dark and went down and wowed the mothers of those big drought horse lineman in those little panhandle towns and then raced back north across the river before the Texas alumni in pick’em up trucks with gun racks and coon hounds got to him and split his skull.

    Now Bill Self is about to become the CAA Raider.

    Instead of an old Eldorado, he and Norm are going to sweep in low in the alumni jet and low altitude drop with a parafoil–Navy Seal style–into some of those little CAA feeder towns and wow some of those mothers of the better CAA players and, bam, once they finish the dog and pony, he and Norm race out to the darkness at the edge of town and hold up their sky hooks get picked up by an alumni helicopter that takes them to an airport and a waiting Citation to wing it back to Lawrence.

    He might sign a whole second string of these guys.

    Imagine, KU might again have enough actual players on the roster to have legitimate practices again.

    No more coaches suns.

    No more projects from other hemispheres.

    Just guys that already know the fundies.

    Know how to dribble and have seen a cheerleader with a short skirt before.

    In the off season, almost anything seems possible.

    Go, Bill, go!!!


  • @jaybate-1.0

    I am not sure where you are getting your information but essentially all the schools you cited Are not in the CCA and are not associated members in basketball either.

    George Mason University. - A10

    East Carolina University - American Conference

    Old Dominion University - C-USA

    University of Richmond (remember the Spiders?) - A-10

    St. Francis University - NorthEast

    Virginia Common Wealth - A10

    UMass - A10

    Rhode Island - A10

  • @JayHawkFanToo Oops! There it is, jaybate. Self’s likely wearing camo, preparing to raid conferences everywhere!

  • Mushrooms? Acid? Meth?

    C’mon, @jaybate-1-0, you trippin’ or just on overdrive? 💥💥💥

  • Wow @jaybate-1-0, You okay? Most of these teams we have played at some point and most of us know what conference they are in. I also don’t buy into the Nike hype at this point with just about every other brand has their camp and most kids go to several. Not to mention hasn’t self got at least 4 #1 recruits on ether ESPN or Rivals with Henry, Selby, Wigs and Jackson? If it was as simple as Nike we would go back to them even tho I believe Adidas offered more cash and mech. People forget we were nike for quite a few years and didn’t win jack diddly.

  • @JayHawkFanToo

    Guess they have not updated their wiki page in awhile.

    Or is your source mistaken?

    Fake News–it’s FANtastic!!!

  • @mayjay

    When you post apparent drug smears, as you appear to do above, I sometimes wonder if you have been de-patterned at Gitmo, subjected to hypnotic retraining, and deployed as a cloud slave on all fours in a cubicle farm that is given lollipup tog treats each time you appear to smear aliases with drug references online.

    Just kidding. Really.

    Hey, have you read former NCAA director Walter Byers book in my recent tag line?


  • @kjayhawks

    Don’t post to me about shoes and agents. Send your posts to Rick Pitino and the authors of SOLE INFLUENCE, okay? Maybe they can help you. I’m just a fan on website.




    Virtual levers can move the virtual world with the right software!!!😂

  • “Self has now apparently conceded that the adidas conveyor is NEVER going to bring him any top 1s and 5s, and maybe even fewer and fewer 5-star and 4-star types at those positions.”

    I’m thinking Bill just takes advantage of what is right in front of him. The transfers were right in front of him.

    I think Bill had a great season. Okay… he would have liked to bring home the trophy in April. But… he finally had a team with plenty of experience and that helped him execute his plans and win a bunch of games this past year.

    Maybe he just didn’t want to go back to having a super young team for the next few years… the transfers will help prevent that.

    I’m psyched for next year and the year after. I think we will have a great mix of talent, from experienced to newbies.

    It’s time to pull Self above Wooden; Kansas above UCLA. Let’s secure that conference streak record and pile on top of it! While we are at it, we should take home the big trophy in April, too!

  • @jaybate-1.0 The wiki page lists many of the schools you included as former members, and some as only associate members. The post about hallucinogens was due to you being so uncharacteristically wrong that I assumed there had to be a chemical explanation!

  • @jaybate-1.0

    The Wiki page is correct, you are reading it incorrectly, as @mayjay pointed out.

  • @JayHawkFanToo

    Are you sure? I thought it was you that pointed it out? Are you operating under two aliases? You seem confused.

  • @mayjay

    Ok, let me see if I understand you. Are you implying you were projecting your hallucinogenic experiences onto me, rather drawing the apparently more probable inference that I just misread something? Since I don’t take hallucinogens, I am trying to understand your insinuation that I did. Perhaps if we keep exploring your personal experiences we will get this sorted out. I am trying hard to understand what made you choose hallucinogens? What is it about hallucinogens that apparently resonates so deeply with you that you would insinuate other aliases using them, rather than just remarking that they misread something? I want to help.

  • @drgnslayr

    It appears to be both.

    OAD 1s and 5s haven’t signed for so long that he appears just to take what ever is in front of him, plus he appears to be moving into the CAA conference, and perhaps into other similar conferences to tap a possible willingness of some players to move up to an elite major in a bcs conference. Eh?

  • @et al

    Despite my apparent misreading of the CAA wiki page (I haven’t gone back to check), an important point remains. Self appears potentially to be moving further down market and into cherry picking mid-major players in the east.

    Before anyone responds, make sure you are sober and don’t project hallucinogen consumption onto yours truly. I can pass blood tests from here to eternity!!! 😄

    Now let’s enjoy the off season!!!

    Walter Byers would want us to.

  • drgnslayr said:

    Maybe he just didn’t want to go back to having a super young team for the next few years… the transfers will help prevent that.

    💯 totally agree. After 2012-2013 I’m pretty sure he said “never again” to that level of green.

  • jaybate 1.0 said:

    Despite my apparent misreading of the CAA wiki page (I haven’t gone back to check), an important point remains. Self appears potentially to be moving further down market and into cherry picking mid-major players in the east.

    Newman - Mississippi State

    Coleby - Ole Miss

    Cunliff - Seattle/ Arizona State

    Dedric Lawson - Memphis

    K.J. Lawson - Memphis

    Moore - Cal

    Whitman - W&M.

    1 out of 7? How exactly is he cherry picking programs in the East? Looks more like the South and West.

    Are you OK? You seem to be way off your game lately.

  • @approxinfinity

    Maybe.but it seems to go beyond green. He can’t even get the green 5 stars with enough frequency to sustain an 8 man rotation of OADs and 5-stars through the usual injuries the way the other elite majors seem able to do regularly. This falloff in quality of depth is acute. Imagine UNC and U.K. and Duke and Arizona and UCLA and MSU backfilling with mid majors!!!

    But Self must have looked at all the upsets by mid majors early and late and thought, whoa, maybe I can bandaid by cherry picking advanced mid majors, instead of taking problem OAD s and five star Weight gain projects and long shot foreign projects.

    Maybe Self has decided that it is easier to add 10 pounds to an experienced mid major, rather than 30 to 40 pounds with a five star project, or teach fundamentals to foreign players that have only played that game for a year or two .

  • @jaybate-1.0 for sure. I think what Self realized was that to recruit top shelf talent as freshman, it was no longer possible to maintain the process of earning minutes through years of the program. The high talent, even the high potential raw talent wanted minutes immediately or they would not come. This means that going the Transfer U route is in fact going back to what Bill is comfortable with: earning your minutes, and only starting around your junior year of college.

    I think Self had an epiphany with Lucas. While this may sound harsh. Self appreciated Lucas and everything he did to develop into a good player. But ultimately Self realized that the cost of developing a role player for 5 years is simply too great. You can get a player that maxes out at Lucas’ talent level with less investment. And I would be very very surprised if we aren’t extremely selective with freshman scholarship offers going forward. That is to say, I would not expect scholarships on high-character project freshman, as you alluded to.

  • @JayHawkFanToo

    You appear to be missing the point! KU is an elite major! KU is supposed to be able to keep the cupboard full with a mix of OADs and 5 stars, maybe one 4 star once every few years, as a favor to some colleague, at the 9 and 10 spots. Many of his OADs are problem cases, or sloppy seconds. Many of his 5-stars are guys that either havent played enough to have fundamentals, or have to add huge weight gains to play. He signs 4 stars almost every season and they play big minutes. Self started a Towson DECOMMIT at PG for 2-3 seasons. He has played a 3-star recruit at the five for 2 seasons. The bulk of his incoming class are transfers. And one of them is a mid major transfer. OMG!!!

    Self is doing a great job playing with rosters of players like what he had at Tulsa, plus 2 elite major grade players, but HE SHOULD NOT HAVE TOO!!!

    That’s the point!

  • In his years at KU Bill Self, I think, has grown more comfortable with experimentation. He has adjusted to the talent available, remarkably so the past two seasons. His tribulations with freshmen is leading him to venture into heavy line-ups of transfer athletes who have already proved their value. Even his 3 best talented freshmen in recent years, kids with probable NBA All-Star futures, have let him down occasionally and not risen to the key moment production of a Carmelo Anthony who, as a freshman, sent the Jayhawks home with a momentous loss in The Big Dance. And then there was highly touted Alexander and Bragg. Obviously, Coach is ready and intent on trying something new…stretching his parameters. A very intriguing situation right now, watching his near future line-up solidify and gel. I do anticipate that he will squeeze lots of wins from this somewhat rag-tag new group. Whether he can haul home another league trophy then advance to the Final 4 will tell us the success of his change-up.

  • @REHawk

    I agree with what you say, but I’m not sure he is experimenting. It appears the powers that be keep cutting off one avenue of recruiting to him after another. And now he is down to chasing transfers and perhaps increasingly midmajor transfers.

    Hell! Self didn’t have to play midmajor players at Illinois!!!

    Its appears flat wrong that such a great coach should have apparently to keep ducking and weaving with less and less talented teams with less and less quality depth apparently just so TPTB can keep adidas on the ropes, while all the Nike and Air Jordan programs keep getting their rosters 10 deep in OADs and 5 stars with few transfers.

    KU seems increasingly now little more than Gonzaga with a legacy and one OAD.

    It’s sickening to watch the program and Self be slowly strangled to death by the current asymmetry in recruiting regimes, seeding and whistling!

    I wish I had the emoji for blowing chow.

    I would surely use it.

    And this second class citizen status of KU is becoming so normalized that KU fans are beginning apparently to start to say, well, that’s just the way it is.

    It’s like if Harriet Tubman came back to life and offered KU fans a ride to freedom, Harriet’s heart would be confronted by KU fans that turned down the opportunity to escape to freedom the same way Harriet said some of the broken and beaten slaves turned down her offers of freedom.

    Come on, KU fans, we can’t just quietly keep letting KU be treated as a second class shoe brand and rely on Bill Self to keep pulling out hat rabbits to compensate.

    Self and KU deserve better.

  • @approxinfinity

    Yes, Imagine waiting 4 3/4 years for Landen to be a solid defender and rebounder that could not score!

    Especially when you knew you likely would NEVER sign a playable OAD/5-star EVEN to complement him at the 5.

    I know the big adidas bucks ease a lot of pain, but some days it must suck waking up and realizing you’re a Hall of Fame coach at an elite major and OAD/5-star 1s and 5s just don’t sign with you!!!

  • @jaybate-1.0 🤢 I don’t think Self is being strangled. He was, but only because he was trying to play the same game.

    Where we’re going, we don’t need roads.

  • @approxinfinity

    “You will!”–Yoda to Luke

    The surest ways to kill the B12 are:

    a.) weaken Texas in football; and

    b.) weaken KU in basketball.

    ✔️ and about to be ✔

    The B12 has to be killed.

    4 power conferences are necessary, not 5.

  • @jaybate-1.0

    What exactly am I missing? You indicated that KU is raiding East Schools for transfer player and yet, of the 7 transfer players currently at a KU, 6 are from the South or West and only one might be from the East.

    Earlier, you mentioned a number of schools that you claimed were in the Colonial Conference and yet all but one were in conferences other than the Colonial.

    Again, my posts were not about the transfer issue but about your gross mischaracterization of conference membership and player geographical origin. @mayjay theory is starting to sound more plausible.

  • @JayHawkFanToo

    Now you confuse me more.

    With “mischaracterization,” are you Suggesting an appearance of some intent to mischaracterize on my part?

    Or are you trying to suggest an appearance of intent with “gross mischaracterization”?

    If so, I lacked such intent.

    Next, were you not the one who first indicated I had apparently inaccurately read and recollected the list of CAA schools on the wiki page, if I apparently did? (Note: I still have not gone back to review the Wiki page to check your observation. I am relying on your characterization.)

    Next what exactly is a “mischaracterization”? Was I really committing a “mischaracterization” ?

    Or was I committing an accurate characterization of an accidental goof in reading and recollecting of the CAA wiki page?

    And how might you know enough about what I was thinking to be able reliably to distinguish one from the other?

    Why would I want to intentionally grossly mischaracterize this issue?

    If I erred, it was an accident.

    Next, what exactly is the standardized threshold for a “gross mischaracterization,” as opposed to a “mischaracterization”; what you describe would appear to me to be more accurately described as an accidentally, unintentionally inaccurate recollection, if such were in fact to have occurred?

    Again, are you suggesting intent to mischaracterize on my part, or are you suggesting some possibility of intent to mischaracterize, or are you accidentally suggesting a possible intent to mischaracterize?

    Next how exactly does a mischaracterization differ from an inaccurate characterization? Are they identical? Mischaracterization seems more negative and critical than accidentally inaccurate characterization, and both seem more so than accidentally inaccurate recollection.

    What did you mean by choosing mischaracterization instead of the other possible options?

    Do you think in retrospect you mischaracterized what you claim I did, or was it an unintended, inaccurate characterization, that has lead me to my confusion about what you meant and about your intent?

    Your description of my post as “gross mischaracterization” seems to me the making of a tempest in a teapot, but since you have appeared to attach such gravity to it, I have tried to take you respectfully and have drilled down some to what appears problematic in your apparent teapot.

    Now, again, do you really not see KU–a supposedly elite major-- signing a bunch of transfers from lesser majors, plus a mid major transfer from Bill and Mary, as yet another sign of KU recruiting sliding downhill?

    Does my reputedly unintentionally inaccurate recollection of what schools belong to the flipping CAA really and truly matter very much in comparison to Self having to sign a mid major transfer from Bill & Mary to fill out a roster he has already loaded with a bunch of transfers from lesser majors?

    My god, even Ted Owens could find enough freshman to fill his first roster spots without resorting to more than 1 or 2 juco transfers max. And LB could coach’em up to a 30 win team with his freshman adds too. And Roy? Reputedly recruiting half the country he could fill a roster most of the time with freshman.

    Look at Roy at UNC. At least one near .500 season. Scandals. Health problems. Uncertainty he will remain the coach much longer. Does he have to go begging to this extent for transfers from Bill and Mary, or Memphis, or ASU? C’mon!!!

    Coach K? He takes part of a season off. Old as the hills. Swirling talk about him retiring every season. Occasional near .500 seasons. A former player with a jewelry scandal. Does he have to go begging to this extent for transfers from Bill and Mary, or Memphis, or ASU? C’mon!!!

    Stumpy? Never won a ring. Choked with a long stack. Got cut back to medium stacks. Dresses and acts like a used car salesman in Toledo. Coaches in a state with more scorpions than people. Does he have to go begging to this extent for transfers from Bill and Mary, or Memphis, or ASU? C’mon!!!

    Alford? The charisma of a fence post. Never won a ring as a coach. Recruits to a 12,000 seat overgrown gymnasium. Does he have to go begging to this extent for transfers from Bill and Mary, or Memphis, or ASU? C’mon!!!

    Ratso Izzo? Mr. U.P. with a tire iron? Mr. Line’em up in football pads and scrimmage’em. Mr. I can’t win a ring unless the refs don’t bring whistles! Even Ratso can keep his rosters stocked with freshman. Does he have to go begging to this extent for transfers from Bill and Mary, or Memphis, or ASU? C’mon!!!

    This issue emerging at KU the last few years of transfers from lesser majors and now one from Bill & Mary, is trending up, not down.

    KU is no longer an elite major in terms of depth.

    And it appears it’s starters maybe moving to transfers from lesser majors.

    If Self ever misses signing his 1 OAD per season, KU will be just another major In talent.

    KU does NOT want to let itself slip this much in recruiting AND have to replace Self in a few years. It won’t be pretty at all!!!

    Rock Chalk!!!


  • @jaybate-1.0

    Let’s see. Out of the 9 schools you said belonged to the Colonial Conference 8 were incorrect. Of the 7 transfer players that you said were raided from East schools, 6 were incorrect. Now, if you missed 1 or 2 you can see it as an careless error; however, when just about ever name you named is wrong, gross mischaracterization is the proper, shall we say characterization?..or else we can go with @mayjay premise.

    As to why you would cite incorrect information, this one is easy. You formulated premises with no facts to back them up so you cited incorrect facts to fit your obviously flawed premise. SOP for politicians and either you are one or should be one…on the other hand, this is not the type of politician we should have; too many like this already.

  • I think Self doing what he always does. Recruiting from wherever. He has an eye for it.

  • I don’t think it’s so dire. Throw out UK because they turn their roster over every year and it skews the #s. In the last 5 years Duke has 4 more top 100 players than KU. Arizona has had 1 more top 100 player than KU. And KU has had one more than UCLA. KU has had more top 100 talent in the last 5 years than all but 3 teams out of the hundreds in the NCAA. I too would like to see KU get all the very best players, but it’s just not like KU’s struggling to stay at .500 either.

  • @jaybate-1-0 @JayHawkFanToo

    Oh, for Lawdy’s sake, please let it rest before I look for some drug to take! Like hemlock!

  • @mayjay Sorry to say but exactly why I’ve grown so weary of & scarcely visit our chat site anymore- snipe, snipe, & more damn snipe… Worst thing about it is I’m guilty of the same damn intolerance just like the next guy. Shit I just as well stay here & talk to the wife…or the effin wall. At least the wall can’t bitch back. That’s why it’s downright impossible to beat a damn good dog. Over dude & waaaaaaaay on out there.

  • @mayjay Exactly why I’m so weary of our chat site anymore- snipe, snipe, & more damn snipe… Shit I just as well stay here & talk to the wife…

  • @globaljaybird We need a bumper sticker: I CAN’T STAND INTOLERANCE!

  • @globaljaybird I feel you man. I don’t think we are any place new though. It’s a long off season and the other things to talk about have their pitfalls of unpleasantry.

    I’m sincerely sad the Royals aren’t doing well. The trade deadline firesale isn’t a pleasant discussion for committed fan even if its an honest one.

    Anyway you do what makes you happy and then if you feel like sharing tell us about it. Like what I said about baseball, this place will be here even if you want to walk away and do what needs doing, and we’ll be here when you feel like talking.

    I’d love to hear about the good stuff from you and roll with that. Remember when @drgnslayr told us about his garden and was it you @KUSTEVE that posted pics of your ranch? And hows your sweet dog doing GB? The dog days of summer approaching. Rose smelling time. Be good bud.

  • What Jaybate is posting is true. Looks like folks are so caught up with the conference mistake, they’re missing the point. Our first national player of the year for Self came from Towson. Our starting point guard came from Appalachian St. Our #3 big came from Bill and Mary Jane. The Lawsons came from the formerly relevant Memphis out of the powerhouse AAC, our top 5 transfer guard came out of Miss St ( yes, they do field a bb team), and our pg for next year came out of Fascist U ( they do play basketball at Cal when they aren’t assaulting conservatives, and pissing all over the First Admendment ). We aren’t talking about getting 8 transfers from Kensucky or Dook- Bill is taking a hodge podge of talent where ever he can locate it. It might not be the CAA, but these guys come from the depths of college basketball, and are transformed once they hit Lawrence.

  • @approxinfinity I don’t remember who posted their Texas Ranch pics- it wasn’t me.

  • Its been great seeing Self become flexible with his recruiting, he’s adapted.

    I think he realizes that you take what is available nowadays. Getting the top kids out of HS is becoming even more of a crap-shoot. If your recruiting a top player and you have a player returning that could reasonably be resistance to that incoming freshman for playing time, forget about it. This cycle is a perfect example of that for KU.

    I’ve started to see all these transfers in the thought that Self didn’t want them going somewhere else. Newman, Lawson’s, Cunliffe, Moore these are all guys that any program would have wanted playing for them. Self has struck “transfer gold”


    I don’t think it’s just that jaybate was wrong but how he handles responding to it.

    You can go to (much more official than Wikipedia, which while correct listed former members which somehow confused Jaybate) and hover over a tab that says members to see

    College of Charleston
    James Madison
    William & Mary

    I know some aren’t as good with computers but it takes 10 seconds.

  • BeddieKU23 said:

    Its been great seeing Self become flexible with his recruiting, he’s adapted.

    I think he realizes that you take what is available nowadays. Getting the top kids out of HS is becoming even more of a crap-shoot. If your recruiting a top player and you have a player returning that could reasonably be resistance to that incoming freshman for playing time, forget about it. This cycle is a perfect example of that for KU.

    I’ve started to see all these transfers in the thought that Self didn’t want them going somewhere else. Newman, Lawson’s, Cunliffe, Moore these are all guys that any program would have wanted playing for them. Self has struck “transfer gold”

    Plus he wanted to avoid a super young team next year.

    Let’s say he adds a random hs guard, wing and pf instead of the transfers this year. We could have been looking at trying to get 3-4 starters out of the 18 class.

    Now instead PF is set and PG could be set depending on what we see from the 18 class. Wing should already be covered even if Vick goes pro. Now only the 2 and 5 potentially and it’s not a given that Doke will go.

  • KUSTEVE said:

    @approxinfinity I don’t remember who posted their Texas Ranch pics- it wasn’t me.


  • @dylans yes

  • Nice yep!

  • @BShark I think over the 10,000 amazing posts Jaybate has made, if he makes an error on conference affiliation, then he has earned the right to be cut a little slack. The salient point hasn’t changed- Coach Self does more with less than anyone in college basketball. We don’t hand over starting jobs very easily- almost never will you see a true freshman go directly into the starting lineup ( except for 2013, when we had no choice ). Before oubre was assaulting green meanies, he was not starting his first 10 games at KU. So, we can’t just hand out starter’s minutes the year before. We don’t “HAND THE KEYS OVER” to a Trae Young, like OU. We don’t guarantee starter’s spots to 8 people, like the Squid. Bate’s main point is we’re getting to Elite 8 games with Towson and Appalachian St recruits. We’re shoring up our front line with a William and Mary transfer. If we had Nike instead of Adidas, it might be different. But, we are stuck with Adidas. It is a testament that he can take a player with extreme limitations like LL, and turn him into a rebounding fool. Is there a talent embargo? Absolutely. Are we making due with what we have? Absolutely.


    One weaker recruiting year and you’d think the world was ending.

    Duke, UK, Arizona, UNC. These are the programs that typically, consistently recruit better than KU. Historic programs, with HOF coaches (cept the whale who may get there). Programs, that, Duke aside have had down stretches with a lame coach in the last 20 years.

    More with less? Villanova just recently won a title with Jalen Brunson and a bunch of guys ranked in the 60-80s. Self could absolutely consistently get players in that ranking range to KU if he targeted them early instead of chasing the top 15. So, the philosophical approach is to blame as well. When you go against the big dogs, sometimes you are left scrapping. This year was somewhat different though, as Self lost two PGs to the home school and Chaundee Brown respected the fact that Wake had been recruiting him for years (kind of like how KU had shown interest in Preston since the 8th grade but not that extreme).

    I would agree that in Self’s system, it’s not ideal to start a bunch of FR.

    We should see how recruiting shakes out in 18 and 19. Self can usually sign guys when he has PT available.

  • @BShark I don’t want to see a HOF poster get run off the boards for making a clerical error. His main point wasn’t discussed- only his clerical error.


    I’d rather see no poster get ran off in most cases and certainly not jaybate. He handled it poorly. Instead of going back to wiki to check, or checking their conference site he just kept posting in his usual verbose style (and hey, that’s how he wants to post so that’s fine). It’s extremely easy to check. So I was hoping that by posting the link and the teams in the conference, that said part of the discussion could be over.


    I respectfully disagree. We did discuss his premise that KU was raiding the Colonial Conference and was proven to be incorrect. A clerical error, as you put it, is when you miss one school or misspell a name; however, when 8 of the 9 schools he cited are incorrect it goes way past clerical error; anyone that follows college basketball know that most of those schools were in the A10, which is a fairly well known conference and considerably better and better known than the Colonial.

    If you look at the Wiki page for the Colonial Conference, the list of current teams is clearly indicated and teams with past affiliations are also clearly indicated with their current Conference affiliation in the same line in the table…nothing ambiguous about it.

    Normally you use facts to develop a premise, you don’t develop a premise and then create your own facts to justify it, particularly when the facts are so obviously incorrect.

  • @JayHawkFanToo The premise was we were shaking every tree out there to make it happen on our roster. You’re going to be 70 too at some point…God willing.

  • Jaybate is 70?

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