Bill Self: Colonial Athletic Association Raider
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What exactly am I missing? You indicated that KU is raiding East Schools for transfer player and yet, of the 7 transfer players currently at a KU, 6 are from the South or West and only one might be from the East.
Earlier, you mentioned a number of schools that you claimed were in the Colonial Conference and yet all but one were in conferences other than the Colonial.
Again, my posts were not about the transfer issue but about your gross mischaracterization of conference membership and player geographical origin. @mayjay theory is starting to sound more plausible.
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Now you confuse me more.
With “mischaracterization,” are you Suggesting an appearance of some intent to mischaracterize on my part?
Or are you trying to suggest an appearance of intent with “gross mischaracterization”?
If so, I lacked such intent.
Next, were you not the one who first indicated I had apparently inaccurately read and recollected the list of CAA schools on the wiki page, if I apparently did? (Note: I still have not gone back to review the Wiki page to check your observation. I am relying on your characterization.)
Next what exactly is a “mischaracterization”? Was I really committing a “mischaracterization” ?
Or was I committing an accurate characterization of an accidental goof in reading and recollecting of the CAA wiki page?
And how might you know enough about what I was thinking to be able reliably to distinguish one from the other?
Why would I want to intentionally grossly mischaracterize this issue?
If I erred, it was an accident.
Next, what exactly is the standardized threshold for a “gross mischaracterization,” as opposed to a “mischaracterization”; what you describe would appear to me to be more accurately described as an accidentally, unintentionally inaccurate recollection, if such were in fact to have occurred?
Again, are you suggesting intent to mischaracterize on my part, or are you suggesting some possibility of intent to mischaracterize, or are you accidentally suggesting a possible intent to mischaracterize?
Next how exactly does a mischaracterization differ from an inaccurate characterization? Are they identical? Mischaracterization seems more negative and critical than accidentally inaccurate characterization, and both seem more so than accidentally inaccurate recollection.
What did you mean by choosing mischaracterization instead of the other possible options?
Do you think in retrospect you mischaracterized what you claim I did, or was it an unintended, inaccurate characterization, that has lead me to my confusion about what you meant and about your intent?
Your description of my post as “gross mischaracterization” seems to me the making of a tempest in a teapot, but since you have appeared to attach such gravity to it, I have tried to take you respectfully and have drilled down some to what appears problematic in your apparent teapot.
Now, again, do you really not see KU–a supposedly elite major-- signing a bunch of transfers from lesser majors, plus a mid major transfer from Bill and Mary, as yet another sign of KU recruiting sliding downhill?
Does my reputedly unintentionally inaccurate recollection of what schools belong to the flipping CAA really and truly matter very much in comparison to Self having to sign a mid major transfer from Bill & Mary to fill out a roster he has already loaded with a bunch of transfers from lesser majors?
My god, even Ted Owens could find enough freshman to fill his first roster spots without resorting to more than 1 or 2 juco transfers max. And LB could coach’em up to a 30 win team with his freshman adds too. And Roy? Reputedly recruiting half the country he could fill a roster most of the time with freshman.
Look at Roy at UNC. At least one near .500 season. Scandals. Health problems. Uncertainty he will remain the coach much longer. Does he have to go begging to this extent for transfers from Bill and Mary, or Memphis, or ASU? C’mon!!!
Coach K? He takes part of a season off. Old as the hills. Swirling talk about him retiring every season. Occasional near .500 seasons. A former player with a jewelry scandal. Does he have to go begging to this extent for transfers from Bill and Mary, or Memphis, or ASU? C’mon!!!
Stumpy? Never won a ring. Choked with a long stack. Got cut back to medium stacks. Dresses and acts like a used car salesman in Toledo. Coaches in a state with more scorpions than people. Does he have to go begging to this extent for transfers from Bill and Mary, or Memphis, or ASU? C’mon!!!
Alford? The charisma of a fence post. Never won a ring as a coach. Recruits to a 12,000 seat overgrown gymnasium. Does he have to go begging to this extent for transfers from Bill and Mary, or Memphis, or ASU? C’mon!!!
Ratso Izzo? Mr. U.P. with a tire iron? Mr. Line’em up in football pads and scrimmage’em. Mr. I can’t win a ring unless the refs don’t bring whistles! Even Ratso can keep his rosters stocked with freshman. Does he have to go begging to this extent for transfers from Bill and Mary, or Memphis, or ASU? C’mon!!!
This issue emerging at KU the last few years of transfers from lesser majors and now one from Bill & Mary, is trending up, not down.
KU is no longer an elite major in terms of depth.
And it appears it’s starters maybe moving to transfers from lesser majors.
If Self ever misses signing his 1 OAD per season, KU will be just another major In talent.
KU does NOT want to let itself slip this much in recruiting AND have to replace Self in a few years. It won’t be pretty at all!!!
Rock Chalk!!!
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Let’s see. Out of the 9 schools you said belonged to the Colonial Conference 8 were incorrect. Of the 7 transfer players that you said were raided from East schools, 6 were incorrect. Now, if you missed 1 or 2 you can see it as an careless error; however, when just about ever name you named is wrong, gross mischaracterization is the proper, shall we say characterization?..or else we can go with @mayjay premise.
As to why you would cite incorrect information, this one is easy. You formulated premises with no facts to back them up so you cited incorrect facts to fit your obviously flawed premise. SOP for politicians and either you are one or should be one…on the other hand, this is not the type of politician we should have; too many like this already.
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I think Self doing what he always does. Recruiting from wherever. He has an eye for it.
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I don’t think it’s so dire. Throw out UK because they turn their roster over every year and it skews the #s. In the last 5 years Duke has 4 more top 100 players than KU. Arizona has had 1 more top 100 player than KU. And KU has had one more than UCLA. KU has had more top 100 talent in the last 5 years than all but 3 teams out of the hundreds in the NCAA. I too would like to see KU get all the very best players, but it’s just not like KU’s struggling to stay at .500 either.
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Oh, for Lawdy’s sake, please let it rest before I look for some drug to take! Like hemlock!
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@mayjay Sorry to say but exactly why I’ve grown so weary of & scarcely visit our chat site anymore- snipe, snipe, & more damn snipe… Worst thing about it is I’m guilty of the same damn intolerance just like the next guy. Shit I just as well stay here & talk to the wife…or the effin wall. At least the wall can’t bitch back. That’s why it’s downright impossible to beat a damn good dog. Over dude & waaaaaaaay on out there.
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@mayjay Exactly why I’m so weary of our chat site anymore- snipe, snipe, & more damn snipe… Shit I just as well stay here & talk to the wife…
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@globaljaybird We need a bumper sticker: I CAN’T STAND INTOLERANCE!
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@globaljaybird I feel you man. I don’t think we are any place new though. It’s a long off season and the other things to talk about have their pitfalls of unpleasantry.
I’m sincerely sad the Royals aren’t doing well. The trade deadline firesale isn’t a pleasant discussion for committed fan even if its an honest one.
Anyway you do what makes you happy and then if you feel like sharing tell us about it. Like what I said about baseball, this place will be here even if you want to walk away and do what needs doing, and we’ll be here when you feel like talking.
I’d love to hear about the good stuff from you and roll with that. Remember when @drgnslayr told us about his garden and was it you @KUSTEVE that posted pics of your ranch? And hows your sweet dog doing GB? The dog days of summer approaching. Rose smelling time. Be good bud.
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What Jaybate is posting is true. Looks like folks are so caught up with the conference mistake, they’re missing the point. Our first national player of the year for Self came from Towson. Our starting point guard came from Appalachian St. Our #3 big came from Bill and Mary Jane. The Lawsons came from the formerly relevant Memphis out of the powerhouse AAC, our top 5 transfer guard came out of Miss St ( yes, they do field a bb team), and our pg for next year came out of Fascist U ( they do play basketball at Cal when they aren’t assaulting conservatives, and pissing all over the First Admendment ). We aren’t talking about getting 8 transfers from Kensucky or Dook- Bill is taking a hodge podge of talent where ever he can locate it. It might not be the CAA, but these guys come from the depths of college basketball, and are transformed once they hit Lawrence.
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@approxinfinity I don’t remember who posted their Texas Ranch pics- it wasn’t me.
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Its been great seeing Self become flexible with his recruiting, he’s adapted.
I think he realizes that you take what is available nowadays. Getting the top kids out of HS is becoming even more of a crap-shoot. If your recruiting a top player and you have a player returning that could reasonably be resistance to that incoming freshman for playing time, forget about it. This cycle is a perfect example of that for KU.
I’ve started to see all these transfers in the thought that Self didn’t want them going somewhere else. Newman, Lawson’s, Cunliffe, Moore these are all guys that any program would have wanted playing for them. Self has struck “transfer gold”
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I don’t think it’s just that jaybate was wrong but how he handles responding to it.
You can go to caasports.com (much more official than Wikipedia, which while correct listed former members which somehow confused Jaybate) and hover over a tab that says members to see
College of Charleston Delaware Drexel Elon Hofstra James Madison UNCW Northeastern Towson William & MaryI know some aren’t as good with computers but it takes 10 seconds.
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BeddieKU23 said:
Its been great seeing Self become flexible with his recruiting, he’s adapted.
I think he realizes that you take what is available nowadays. Getting the top kids out of HS is becoming even more of a crap-shoot. If your recruiting a top player and you have a player returning that could reasonably be resistance to that incoming freshman for playing time, forget about it. This cycle is a perfect example of that for KU.
I’ve started to see all these transfers in the thought that Self didn’t want them going somewhere else. Newman, Lawson’s, Cunliffe, Moore these are all guys that any program would have wanted playing for them. Self has struck “transfer gold”
Plus he wanted to avoid a super young team next year.
Let’s say he adds a random hs guard, wing and pf instead of the transfers this year. We could have been looking at trying to get 3-4 starters out of the 18 class.
Now instead PF is set and PG could be set depending on what we see from the 18 class. Wing should already be covered even if Vick goes pro. Now only the 2 and 5 potentially and it’s not a given that Doke will go.
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KUSTEVE said:
@approxinfinity I don’t remember who posted their Texas Ranch pics- it wasn’t me.
Statsmachine?
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@dylans yes
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Nice yep!
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@BShark I think over the 10,000 amazing posts Jaybate has made, if he makes an error on conference affiliation, then he has earned the right to be cut a little slack. The salient point hasn’t changed- Coach Self does more with less than anyone in college basketball. We don’t hand over starting jobs very easily- almost never will you see a true freshman go directly into the starting lineup ( except for 2013, when we had no choice ). Before oubre was assaulting green meanies, he was not starting his first 10 games at KU. So, we can’t just hand out starter’s minutes the year before. We don’t “HAND THE KEYS OVER” to a Trae Young, like OU. We don’t guarantee starter’s spots to 8 people, like the Squid. Bate’s main point is we’re getting to Elite 8 games with Towson and Appalachian St recruits. We’re shoring up our front line with a William and Mary transfer. If we had Nike instead of Adidas, it might be different. But, we are stuck with Adidas. It is a testament that he can take a player with extreme limitations like LL, and turn him into a rebounding fool. Is there a talent embargo? Absolutely. Are we making due with what we have? Absolutely.
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One weaker recruiting year and you’d think the world was ending.
Duke, UK, Arizona, UNC. These are the programs that typically, consistently recruit better than KU. Historic programs, with HOF coaches (cept the whale who may get there). Programs, that, Duke aside have had down stretches with a lame coach in the last 20 years.
More with less? Villanova just recently won a title with Jalen Brunson and a bunch of guys ranked in the 60-80s. Self could absolutely consistently get players in that ranking range to KU if he targeted them early instead of chasing the top 15. So, the philosophical approach is to blame as well. When you go against the big dogs, sometimes you are left scrapping. This year was somewhat different though, as Self lost two PGs to the home school and Chaundee Brown respected the fact that Wake had been recruiting him for years (kind of like how KU had shown interest in Preston since the 8th grade but not that extreme).
I would agree that in Self’s system, it’s not ideal to start a bunch of FR.
We should see how recruiting shakes out in 18 and 19. Self can usually sign guys when he has PT available.
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@BShark I don’t want to see a HOF poster get run off the boards for making a clerical error. His main point wasn’t discussed- only his clerical error.
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I’d rather see no poster get ran off in most cases and certainly not jaybate. He handled it poorly. Instead of going back to wiki to check, or checking their conference site he just kept posting in his usual verbose style (and hey, that’s how he wants to post so that’s fine). It’s extremely easy to check. So I was hoping that by posting the link and the teams in the conference, that said part of the discussion could be over.
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I respectfully disagree. We did discuss his premise that KU was raiding the Colonial Conference and was proven to be incorrect. A clerical error, as you put it, is when you miss one school or misspell a name; however, when 8 of the 9 schools he cited are incorrect it goes way past clerical error; anyone that follows college basketball know that most of those schools were in the A10, which is a fairly well known conference and considerably better and better known than the Colonial.
If you look at the Wiki page for the Colonial Conference, the list of current teams is clearly indicated and teams with past affiliations are also clearly indicated with their current Conference affiliation in the same line in the table…nothing ambiguous about it.
Normally you use facts to develop a premise, you don’t develop a premise and then create your own facts to justify it, particularly when the facts are so obviously incorrect.
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@JayHawkFanToo The premise was we were shaking every tree out there to make it happen on our roster. You’re going to be 70 too at some point…God willing.
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Jaybate is 70?
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Can we stick to just talking about the topic and not try to characterize board members?
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@KUSTEVE Were you mischaracterizing that you own a ranch or that someone else misscharacterized your posting pictures of an alleged ranch? Or did someone post pictures of a one and a half story and mischaraterize the domicile as a ranch?
And I agree, the more anal retentive of of our friends missed the point…and the subsequent humorous response…Bill has recruiting hand cuffs on. Yet he still kicks the conferences butt.
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@Fightsongwriter Nice response…lol. Made my day…
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@BShark I’m not 100% exactly sure, but if not, he’s real close.
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@KUSTEVE is that a polite thing to do?
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This thread has been anally retained. Let’s move on.
