TREMONT WATERS BACK IN PLAY
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@KUSTEVE said:
@brooksmd i’m distracted. it’s ncaa time, so i’m slipping.
@brooksmd & I both are sipping, but it rhymes…
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@Texas-Hawk-10 One of the Academic All Americans this year is Canyon Barry, Scooter’s brother.
4.0 in Nuclear Engineering at a public school, UF.
Of course, he shoots free throws underhanded like his dad, so there is that…
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His quickness is unbelievable. I think his offensive skills would instantly translate in the college game. I’m sure the defense would be a work in progress.
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Waters is electric with the ball, around the same size as Frank Mason. Wish his outside shot was more consistent but he has excellent vision and can run a team from day-1. He will need to add significant weight to his frame in College.
If Waters looks at KU this time around I’m conflicted about what that means for an impact on 2018 recruits. I know we should only be worried about what next year will be like without Frank but Self has clearly prioritized some point guards in 18 already with IMO more potential and signing Waters will compromise our chances with them. That’s how it goes these days, nobody wants to come in and earn their PT.
The best case scenario is the recent talk of Devonte coming back, happens. We find another guard with ability for depth behind Devonte and roll with some combination of Graham, Newman, Vick Cunliffe, Garrett, Svi?, (insert guard recruit/transfer).
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@Crimsonorblue22 said:
What was his attraction to GT?
He could commit there while schools like Duke, UK and KU were holding out for more “elite” options.
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@BeddieKU23 said:
Waters is electric with the ball, around the same size as Frank Mason. Wish his outside shot was more consistent but he has excellent vision and can run a team from day-1. He will need to add significant weight to his frame in College.
If Waters looks at KU this time around I’m conflicted about what that means for an impact on 2018 recruits. I know we should only be worried about what next year will be like without Frank but Self has clearly prioritized some point guards in 18 already with IMO more potential and signing Waters will compromise our chances with them. That’s how it goes these days, nobody wants to come in and earn their PT.
The best case scenario is the recent talk of Devonte coming back, happens. We find another guard with ability for depth behind Devonte and roll with some combination of Graham, Newman, Vick Cunliffe, Garrett, Svi?, (insert guard recruit/transfer).
Mason wasn’t known for his shooting when he signed at KU (Graham was tho), I think Waters would make a good choice if he came to KU.
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As far as 18 recruits if we get Waters I think you risk not getting Dotson. Dotson isn’t that much better. Keep prioritizing Grimes either way.
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He would be a quality signing that’s for sure. Not ready to get too excited yet when he hasn’t received his release nor spoke about who he might be considering now. Of course the rumor mill says Zona/Duke might be the reason…
Mason was a scorer though, Waters has a similar reputation as a score-first type that is evolving his PG skills. The thing I like about Waters is he’s super quick and will find an open man which is what the offense will need next year. Earlier in his prep years I thought he was too reliant on being a scorer but he’s calmed that down as he’s rounded out his game. His size worries me, he would need 15-20 pounds to be able to take contact in the lane against bigs.
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A bird in hand…
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Duke doesn’t worry me provided they get Duval. No idea about AZ’s roster though.
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From what I’ve seen of Tremont… he is a much better pick than Trae Young. The one area Trae has over him is his long ball shot. But everything else I give to Tremont; handles, passing, driving and finishing with either hand, court vision…
I would rather have Tremont’s skill set and have 4 years to polish my trey. I’m willing to bet his trey will come along and pass Trae’s trey because Tremont’s defender has to back off because of his threat to drive more.
Tremont is that “hidden gem” Bill always like to get.
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Yeah Tremont is a 4 year player most likely so he’s a great program type player to build around. Not everyday you find a Top-35 talent that could be in your program 4 years.
I wonder though when he visited did he feel slighted by the staff? He probably knew the staff was targeting bigger fish and might have felt KU wasn’t after him as hard as other targets (they have since missed on). Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe it was he visited and just felt more comfortable with Georgetown at the time but since their season has imploded and KU is still after a PG, maybe he’s thinking that’s a good situation for him after all. Will be interesting to see after his release where he’s looking… You would think KU would be high on his list after being in his top 5 before
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The problem is there are several big schools after Tremont now.
Guess it matters how it went on his visit.
Yes, he could feel slighted because we were going after bigger fish. But he will find the exact same situation at all the blue bloods.
And we have the perfect example of what can happen for him… Frank was not a premiere PG when he came to Kansas, but he will leave Kansas (most-likely) as NPOY! Frank was able to put all of that stuff behind him when he came to Kansas.
I think most of the best players have a sense of reality within. Definitely not all. But it is a good part of their personality test to know if they can use their mind in realistic directions. This situation is a good test.
Tremont has a very similar situation coming here that Frank had. Signing late because coming out of a previous commitment. There is an opening at PG. And he could come right in and possibly start for 4 years! We may bring in another PG after his first year and then we run another 2-PG lineup. Having Devonte certainly hasn’t hurt Frank’s numbers or status!
Actually, this is a beautiful formula moving forward! We know how to play 2 PGs better than any team in America!
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Frank was a fall signing. He was previously committed his last year, but had to take a prep year due to academics.
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Oh yeah…But he had committed to Towson. It was a good thing he failed a class or two!
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Imagine Tremont AFTER Hudy?
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@drgnslayr He performs a dance on the court. Quicker than lightening, he will drive, drive, drive, and set up dunk after dunk.
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It makes ZERO sense for Tremont to go anywhere but Kansas. Biggest reason? Hudy. Tremont is a driving guard and he is going to need to build his body to use that drive to take him to a paycheck someday.
Just look at Frank as “the example.”
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I would expect a Top 30ish player to have everyone after him. The list is long of teams that need a PG now. Which gets me back to the dilemma we’ve been in with every top PG this cycle.
Is Devonte coming back?
If he is returning, Waters won’t start, which won’t be attractive to him. If Waters doesn’t slow play his recruitment this time around we may again lose out to a team that has more clarity at the position.
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Ryan is hearing Waters to Syracuse… They need a PG
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Is that the issue?
We are losing our PG. Frank.
We know Devonte can scoot over and we can have a more traditional shooting guard fill his spot.
Or…
We just keep everything the same and maintain 2 PGs on the floor at all times.
I’m thinking having Devonte come back would be a plus for signing Tremont.
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Blah, but it makes a lot of sense. Syracuse has max minutes to offer.
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Malik Newman is the real issue. Self just this week said its going to be really hard for him not to be a starter next year. They want a PG to play alongside him. If Devonte returns Self has his guy, if Devonte doesn’t return KU needs a guy. The problem is, the decision isn’t yet public for recruits to know one way or the other. There’s a real slim chance we get Devonte back and a Top 30 player to come play behind him. Those days are gone…
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Pencil Newman in as a starter. Erase only if injured.
And yeah too many programs for a top 3o player to go to over being a back-up for a bigger program. Even UK had a thin back court this year…
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Yupp if your coach is saying your a starter now, you must be turning heads in practice.
Waters will end up wherever playing time is the most plentiful. Cuse definitely has that to offer…
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Yeah I don’t think it will be KU but if he does I think it would work out well for both parties.
Good thing is next year KU will have lots of PT to sell at most positions, bad thing is it isn’t a great class.
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@BShark said:
KU will have lots of PT
Not necessarily a good thing- starting to sound like the Duke/UK train.
We always have to blend program players in with top talent…
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Agree but it appears to be the way it is shaping up unfortunately*. Barring some program player additions this Spring. Which is why I’d love to add Mark Smith and Shakur Juiston. Then you have guys with a year in the program going into 2018.
*Preston thinks he is OAD and I could easily see Doke going after next year as well as Bragg if he survives this offseason. Then looking at the guards obviously Graham and Svi are gone regardless of what happens this year, Newman and Cunliffe want to be gone after next year.
So Vick, Garrett and Lightfoot plus late 17 recruits and any 18 recruits. Could lead to a top 18 recruiting class for KU but a tough season…
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Funny I’ve thought the same way then conventional wisdom smacks me in the face and says “Bill Self” always figures it out.
And he does always figure it out.
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People keep saying 2018 is a weak class. How can you tell what they will become 2 years before they graduate high school?
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I see it like this:
Devonte = PG - 2
Malik = 2 - 3
Vick = 2 - 3
Svi = 3 - 4
Cunliffe = 2 - 3
Garrett = 2 - 4
I still think we have room for a PG coming in and getting some big minutes his freshman year.
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Bill the Wizard. I think it would depend a lot on the class. Close on Grimes and land some top end posts (minutes will be there to sell at least) and the team is probably winning the league again.
@Ralph said:
People keep saying 2018 is a weak class. How can you tell what they will become 2 years before they graduate high school?
It’s relative but evaluators that have made these comments before have typically been proven right at the college and NBA level. 2019 class appears stocked with NBA talent.
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Mason was a 36% shooter from 3 in HS and a volume scorer. Not bad for HS kid.
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This is how you recruit him, you tell him…Tremont, you are Frank Mason 4 years ago and look at him now…SOLD!
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Cunliffe is also a guard/wing type that will be fighting for starter minutes
Newman is a 2, at 6’2 what else is he going to play if his own coach says he’s not a point…
We definitely need a guard regardless of Devonte’s decision. The caliber of guard will hinge on whether he’s here or not
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@JayHawkFanToo said:
This is how you recruit him, you tell him…Tremont, you are Frank Mason 4 years ago and look at him now…SOLD!
I bet he’d take the minutes at Syracuse. Depends on what kind of kid he is but it’s hard to turn down minutes at a big program.
@drgnslayr said:
I see it like this:
Devonte = PG - 2
Malik = 2 - 3
Vick = 2 - 3
Svi = 3 - 4
I still think we have room for a PG coming in and getting some big minutes his freshman year.
Cunliffe and Garrett on the roster too. If Graham and Svi both stay, it’s hard for incoming recruits to not just see 6 guards.
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Bill the Wizard, funny. Kind of like Bill the Science Guy?
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We tried that a few times already with no bites…
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Keep forgetting Garrett! And he’s my favorite player in the class. I say just let him play I still think he’ll facilitate offense at whatever position he’s playing
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Me, too! I added him in my list above. He’s still no PG.
Bill Self says Jayhawks need to corral point guard during spring signing period
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@BeddieKU23 said:
Keep forgetting Garrett! And he’s my favorite player in the class. I say just let him play I still think he’ll facilitate offense at whatever position he’s playing
The season after next with SO Garrett and SR Juiston (if KU lands him) would just be ridiculous bbiq.
And ya I agree I don’t know that Garrett would officially be the PG but you can start the offense through him.
@BeddieKU23 said:
We tried that a few times already with no bites…
Yep. Sexton and Young.
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The top end of the class is strong, as is any cycle. But the general sense has been the 18 class is not nearly as deep as some previous or the 2019 class after it. I think re-classifications have hurt the 18 class as more and more guys jockey which class they end up in. We’ll see some guys emerge and maybe some more depth helps balance things out but its definitely not looking like a blockbuster class to need immediate OAD types filling your roster
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Definitely we need a guard. The more Self publicly talks about it more the astonished I am that no one has signed on.
I just don’t understand what kids are not buying about Frank Mason not being here next year.
Do we need billboards across America?
Do we need to start a smear campaign with flash flyers “come to KU and run the show like Frank Mason”.
What is Self not doing correctly here…
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Hey folks…
We NEED a PG!
Yes… it is looking like we will have a lot of guards next year. HOORAY!
Bill is turning the corner on his past ideology. He’s okay with a 4out-1in. Great!
If we are going to start becoming a guard intensive team, then we need to recruit more guards than we did in the past.
BTW: This is more about terminology anyways.
Examine the 3 spot. Historically, that spot has always been for the “small forward” or “shooting forward.”
Then… we started calling the 3 a “swing guard”.
Now, we just call that spot a “guard.”
Look at how basketball has changed. In the good ol’ days, we’d be looking at 3 potential post players, from 3 to 5.
Now… everyone looks at the 3 as a perimeter player. And many teams, including ours, is seeing the positive of having the 4-spot be out on the perimeter.
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The problem isn’t wanting one, it’s getting one.
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But it is different when you try it on a 4 year player; it will not work on a OAD…on the other hand, every HS player believes he is a OAD…
