Jan 18 Game Day: Jayhawks focus on OSU; media focus on Wiggins
bskeet last edited by bskeet
Oklahoma State — led by confident guard Marcus Smart — knocked off the Jayhawks, 85-80, on Feb. 2 last year to end an 18-game home-court winning streak, and the talk this week has been about more than a top-15 matchup at 3 p.m. Saturday that could go a long way toward determining the league race.
During an exclusive interview with Bleacher Report this week, Wiggins reflected on his first seven months at Kansas, his chosen pit stop on the way to the NBA.
“It isn’t what I thought it was going to be,” Wiggins said. “It’s a lot harder than I expected.”
In five games against teams ranked at the time KU played them, Wiggins is averaging 20.2 points and 9.6 rebounds, shooting .446 overall and .348 from three-point range. In the other 11 games, his numbers drop to 13.8 points and 4.7 boards, .433 overall, .313 from three.
Something mighty significant has to happen for Marcus Smart to get the opportunity to perform an encore backflip this afternoon in Allen Fieldhouse.
#####OUR DAILY THREADS:#####
ParisHawk last edited by
Joel Embiid’s latest tweet: “Aaron Rodgers stopped by today to watch practice and show me how to do Backflips”.
I like this guy’s sense of humor!
About media re-focus on Wigs.
Well, so much for letting the hype die down.
A new hype cycle promoting the brand starteth?
Bleacher Report story digest: expectations were too high; humanize; build sympathy; re inflate expectations. More “impactful.”
Keegs: Wigs plays better against better competition; competition getting better today. Shoots 35 not 31 from trey. Reinflate expectations.
Thoughts on media refocus:
Maybe Joel got too big?
Nothing going on with Wigs game that a 40% trey wouldn’t cure.
Games are what happen to us while they’re busy reinflating hype.
A game awaits.
KUSTEVE last edited by KUSTEVE
Some real shocking news : Doug “Snotleib” Gottlieb is the only “expert” on CBS picking the Cow Patties to win. The other three experts are selecting KU. Of course, the other three experts didn’t graduate from OSU like Snotlieb. Geez, what a homer.
ParisHawk last edited by
@KUSTEVE Not saying you’re wrong, but somebody had to pick the underdog so the talking heads could keep talking. Just the way it works…
KUSTEVE last edited by approxinfinity
@KUSTEVE I found Snotlieb’s last two tweets about KU…
Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Jan 15
We shall see #CBS RT @leftyrollks: @GottliebShow Who you got Saturday? Does Smart come in and shock The Phog again? Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Jan 14
#KU fans, before you pound your chest… Let’s talk 24 turnovers…
RockChalkinTexas last edited by RockChalkinTexas
@ParisHawk All talking heads try to keep themselves relevant.
Nothing for us to do except go out and play the game we know and love. Tarik, Jamari and hell even Landen should all come off the bench to keep bigs out there.
KUSTEVE last edited by KUSTEVE
@RockChalkinTexas You’re probably right. Just because Gottlieb is an OSU grad, and posted the only disparaging tweet in the media about our victory over ISU, and was giddy as a school girl with the possibility of OSU winning at PHOG for the 2nd straight year, he was just being a talking head. Nothing to see here, move along.
@RockChalkinTexas Should your quote read "Jamari, Landen and hell even Tarik should all come off the bench … "
It had been a while since I saw a college player get 5 fouls in 5 minutes. Coach Self must really believe that what Black brings to the table is vastly superior to Lucas.
VailHawk last edited by
“BORED RATS PICKING JAYHAWKS”. I have a hunch this game won’t be close
@HighEliteMajor HCBS’s mo is just a mystery to me HEM. Maybe we can get a glimpse of future F & F shootouts today? Then again, maybe we only see Frankamp during tv TO’s & the pre game shoot around? Injury may be the only Lucas sighting at all. It’s awful to think how much impact the frequency of foul calls could impact the outcome, but that’s just the fact of the matter. "Bruise Brother"s is a nifty handle for those two. This game could be won or lost at the line-if much of the activity involves Joel. OSU will likely go after him hard & fast, right from the gate. Enjoy the game HEM- we won’t have to listen to DV or JB today.
We all think KU has this thing turned around, that we’re past the hardest part of our learning phase, that the last three games has this ship going in its inevitable direction. Right? It fits with what we’ve seen, and what we were conditioned to expect heading into the season.
But I don’t think we can say that. Look at last season’s team. Experienced. Seniors – and they lost three in a row in league, in February; one game was perhaps the biggest upset of the entire NCAA season.
This team is the second youngest team in NCAA D-1. It just seems inevitable that this team will snub its collective toes more than once, or twice. Don’t we all really expect to lose some games in conference? And if history shows us anything, the predicted losses don’t always turn out to be the losses.
Actually, we should expect another valley. I would be surprised if we didn’t have one.
It would also not surprise me at all if we lost to Oklahoma St. today. I don’t expect that, but it would not surprise me. We aren’t a juggernaut yet. We have demonstrated that we can lose at home. And college basketball is such that just when a team seems to peaking, someone knocks them off the that peak.
And if lose to Oklahoma St. today at home, the enthusiasm and positivity of the last three games should not be lost.
I’m going to toss this in today – I think Frank Mason has a big game. Double digit scoring type game. He’s a better defender than Tharpe, and have a feeling that his ability to get to the hoop might be necessity.
@globaljaybird - Right, if I’m Travis Ford, the first thing I try to do is get Embiid to hedge on a ball screen and dribble hard at his hip. Actually, I would have a set play whose sole purpose is to try to draw a foul on Embiid as well. If ball screens get switched, don’t you know Ford will (or should) direct his players to try to pump fake Embiid, just like ISU did at the top of the key late in the ISU game. If I’m playing KU, #1 on the chalkboard is to get Embiid out of the game. If we sacrifice a few possessions as a result, so be it.
jaybate 1.0 last edited by jaybate 1.0
@KUSTEVE, first, it appears you maybe right that Doogie is being a homer, but I also think ParisHawk appears to be right that someone has to play the role like Doogie appears to be playing for this game. The talking heads are apparently a team–a team trying to maximize eyeballs and clicks.
How might a team of talking heads try to build clicks and eyeballs?
I suspect they would start with a map of where the eyeballs and clicks are to be gotten. I suspect the talking heads would be picked for their expected abilities to get eyeballs and clicks from certain regions, plus not repell clicks from other regions assigned to other talking heads.
Next, Team Talking Heads (apologies to David Byrne) would look at each game and its teams and figure out how to promote that game to the bread and butter concentration of eyeballs and clicks that Team Talking Heads tries to appeal to; that would be a place called the Eastern Standard Time Zone.
The game has to do okay in EST, or there is little point in broadcasting the game. You make a CST game do okay in EST by linking it temporally to games in the EST (it leads into, or follows an EST game), and by telling its story within the framework of its significance to the major EST teams; e.g., out in the provinces, these are a couple of good teams that could eventually be the teams our EST teams have to smight for a ring. This is where all of the ACC and Big Ten talking heads come in on the dais. But, again, Team Talking Head might as well grab what it can out in the provinces, er, CST, and that’s where Doogie comes in.
You would want Doogie to support at least one of the CST teams, but at the same time you would not want Doogie saying, “Look, these teams are way better than the teams back in EST,” You would also not want Doogie building either CST team into a team that is likely the greatest team in college basketball; that would undermiine what you are trying to do in EST. Finally, you would want a guy in Doogie’s role with the kind of looks and speech pattern that eyeballs in the EST zone would identify with. You would want Doogie’s role to appeal to the EST guy’s fantasy (or reality) of what it would be like to be exiled to the provinces for work. You would want Doogie to play the role of the EST guy that couldn’t make it at a big time EST school and had to go out to the CST, to get to ball, and to get a gig afterwards. In short, you would want Doogie Godlove.
Team Talking Heads has impact guys and glue guys, just like Bill Self’s basketball team does. Each guy has a role and each guy has to subordinate himself to the goal of Team Talking Heads: maximum eyeballs and clicks.
So, you say, but, but, but, jaybate, why doesn’t CST glue guy Doogie heap the love on KU, when KU obviously has the bigger marquis player, likely better team, greater overall talent, and the better record? Why isn’t he talking about how KU is at home and likely to clean Okie State’s clock? Why is he scorning KU and loving on OSU?
Well, at one level, it is about Doogie Godlove being an Okie State grad and so we can on one level say he is being a homer for his old school.
But, remember, Doogie is on a team and just as Wigs, or Selden, could drop 30 most any game, but subordinate to the team so that they only do so selectively, Doogie has to subordinate to his team.
Doogie has to get EST eyeballs and clicks, plus get as many CST eyeballs as he can; that seems his mission.
What Doogie is apparently doing works on a lot of levels.
If you were an EST eyeball, which would you rather see? A game being promoted as a sure KU win, or a game with an upset in the making? Would you rather have all your EST hero talking heads in agreement, or would you rather have one of your EST hero talking heads, the black sheep brother, if you will, the one you loved and envied his chutzpah for going out in the provinces to ball, sticking it in the eye of CST Goliath (KU) and being loyal to his school? Answer: EST eyeballs would probably love what Doogie is doing?
But there is another dimension that Doogie appears to be playing to here. In the CST, what percentage of the eyeball pie chart is KU fans and what percentage is “non KU fans sick of being beaten by KU?” Answer: “Non KU fans sick of being beaten by KU” is the vast majority, so Doogie is positioned to attract the lion’s share of CST eyeballs and clicks, too.
So: Team Talking Heads is covering it bases. You might say: Its nothing personal. Its business.
So: how in the future can KU counter this dynamic apparently underpinning Team Talking Head coverage that, at least, seems counter productive to Team Jayhawk in Doogie Godlove’s case?
The Big 12 needs to expand into the EST with an EST division for WVU to play in; then Team Talking Heads EST players can promote the game more strongly from the KU is an EST time zone conference team angle.
Next, KU needs to continually emphasize two things:
red, white and blue uniforms; and
Tradition and patriotism sell in the EST, because that is apparently how the EST eyeballs view themselves as being with in the American experience.
The early ownership of the Dallas Cowboys figured this out long ago. If you are outside the EST, become America’s team.
The more KU ties itself to tradition and to embodying what America stands for, the more successful will be its marketing. And expanding the B12 into the EST will make it that much easier to market those concepts.
Doogie Godlove would have a great deal of difficulty getting eyeballs and clicks by siding with OSU, if KU were being marketed more explicitly as the embodiment of America’s team. What American, regardless of time zone, wants to pick against America?
We are not dealing in realities, when it comes to Team Talking Heads and promoting games.
We are dealing in perceptions of signs circulating in sign markets.
Or so it seems to me, at present.
HighEliteMajor last edited by
@jaybate 1.0 You really need to fix your avatar … things don’t feel aligned.
@HighEliteMajor-Ford knows they don’t have an answer or a prayer with Embid on the floor, so your assessment is probably plan A for OSU.
@HighEliteMajor–wow, that’s a nice potential basketball grail image. I would like to use that. I wonder: is it in the public domain?
@jaybate 1.0 Doogie…love it!!! I have a visceral reaction to Doogie, much like many do with Dicky V. . When he tweeted out the KU slam after we beat the Clones on their home court, I was waiting for him to show himself to be a Cow Patty homer. You are probably right about the sportscasting teams choosing up sides, but I’m sure they didn’t have to twist Doogie’s arm to take his beloved Cow Patties.
@jaybate 1.0 yep, just googled “cup of the carpenter images” and there it was … I bet you could right click on what I have and it would be all yours.
I wish Keegans article described the five games a little more in detail that Wiggins had top games against ranked teams. I know Duke was one, Florida was one, KState and Iowa State. San Diego State was the other I think. 3-2 record in games Wigs shines, and 9-2 I think in the other games where he blends into the team a bit more.
So does KU play better when Wigs is not the star?
I’ve shown here before where Mason’s 4 best games are all KU losses, which are basically Tharpes worst games.
I hope instead of a flip today that Smart does a flop.
I hope the game is on here in SEC country instead of SEC basketball.
I don’t get worked up about announcers too much. I enjoy just about all of them, except Brent Musberger, who doesn’t work for CBS anymore, so I think we’re safe today. I do have to tolerate him every time I watch the 88 championship game.
I always liked Billy Packer until I watched the 08 game and realized he was blatantly cheering for Memphis for some reason.
I believe that we need better bench production. I noticed the ISU game, obviously a success, but nonetheless, a success only from the starters and Traylor. The rest contributed almost nothing.
Black fouled out with a total of 5 minutes playing time. Do the fouls per minute math on that one.
I, and most of you as well, better enjoy the Joel show while we have it. Man I hate this OAD garbage. We deserve better, as do the fans of the other OAD schools, even Kentucky.
Because when you think about it, Kentucky might be looking at an UCLA style dynasty if Davis and company had stuck around. Not that we’d want that, but 30 years from now people are going to recognize Florida because they won back to back championships because guys stayed when they didn’t have to.
And we could be looking at an UCLA style dynasty should our stars stay put. I have no illusions that will happen.
HighEliteMajor last edited by
@wissoxfan83 do you think Self has any real faith in his bench?
@HighEliteMajor I know you don’t think so, and you’re getting to me and I’m starting to wonder as well. I think what we miss is knowing what happens in practice and maybe these guys aren’t performing what coach is practicing with them.
@HighEliteMajor: got to agree with you that KU nation expectations, further primed by media hype re-inflation, are leading us to underestimate how tough it is to beat a team with a great, experienced point guard, like Smart. I was among the first to say that Cobbins loss to OSU marginalized OSU from serious contention, but I think OSU is a very dangerous team today. Travis Fiesta sits in a hair triggered ejection seat in Pickensville. If he doesn’t make some hay with this team, he could be termed a failed experiment in going short at head coach. Thus, OSU Coach Fiesta is going to be willing to pull out all the stops today for a road win against KU to give the Pokes an edge at least against other challengers to KU. Further, Coach Fiesta is not going to forget that Kevin Young contact on Smart last season. Since the recent trend seems to be that you can cheap shot with a forearm and not get ejected, I look for OSU to come out cheap shotting. Further, I think there is some chance that Self is going to be tempted to send them out flat today, and to substitute massively the first 30 minutes, in order to try to prepare to win the Baylor game Monday. The possible combination of take no prisoners by OSU, plus Self trying to steal one the flat way, makes me do a little dry washing, even though I too expect KU to win.
We are going to learn a bit about which coach–Travis Fiesta, or F. Scott FitzDrew–Self respects the most. Self needs to win these two home games in order to avoid having to go on the road for a win against either. At the same time, he tends to only amp for one game. Since Baylors seems to have the greater depth of talent, coaching being equal, Self would likely elect to play OSU flat and amp for Baylor. If he amps for OSU, then it would seem Self thinks Travis Fiesta is the tougher coaching challenge, and F. Scott FitzDrew the softer one.
Whatever, it is a great Saturday-Monday to be a basketball fan; that’s for sure!!
Rock Chalk as always, HEM,
P.S.: I am continuing to get a lot out of your posts. I have tried to do what I can to contribute to the site, but, without my fastball, the best I can do now is try to be a control pitcher and concentrate on middle inning relief. its okay. Regardless, the game’s the thing and its damned good to still be alive.
Coach Self must see something in Black. If Black were a Freshman or Sophomore at KU, would he play over Lucas?
@KansasComet: Self sees something, and Black is giving it inspire of his foul problems. Black hung 17 points in one game; that is what he can do under certain circumstances and that’s darned good. But what Black brings to every practice and game, however long or short he is on the wood, is an example of how to play in tandem with another big man. Black is teaching all of KU’s big men how to play in a tandem. I know Embiid and Perry have to start, but Embiid in particular still is not savvy about playing in a tandem. Every minute in practice and in a game Embiid sees Black play he is getting the right way to play in tandem modeled for him. This is worth a lot. Black is also modeling the same thing for Traylor, who came to the game late and has also never really learned how to play in tandem. Jam Tray was born exploding out of position, but he has never quite gotten how to play together with another big. He has come far under Black’s tutelage this season. Really, watching Jam Tray and Black grow into dance partners has warmed my heart as much as any of the other good things that have “developed” on this young team. When Black gets fouled up, we don’t get to see much of it, but when he doesn’t, then Jam Tray and he are starting to move as intuitively with each other as two bigs are supposed to do. They may never get to Marcus-Kieff levels of intuition, but then they were twins and played together a lot of years. What we have to hope is that Black can stay on the floor longer, and that Embiid/Ellis begin to master the tandem dance step. So far, Embiid and Perry have been like two ships passing in the night doing what they do with out much coordination or ability to anticipate the other. Perry is kind of an internal type. And Embiid just has played long enough to intuit how to play with Perry. As a result, neither one is getting any leverage from playing with the other. They just both have lots of talent and are more or less doing their things separately; this is like Charlie Parker and Miles Davis alternating between solos without the bridges that cause the band to take off to something greater than the sum of the parts. I know it would probably be considered “weird,” but it might be good to have Perry and Embiid take a ball room dancing class and take turns leading and following just to force them to get attuned to what the other is doing. Another less gender charged approach might be to put them both on skates at a rink and tie a rope between them and take turns having them skate ahead, behind and beside each other. Really, Embiid and The Designer could make beautiful music together once they BOTH know their partner and where he will be when.
@wissoxfan83 - The practice thing is completely legitimate. That’s our missing piece. I will say that Self has made reference to practice before on players. I’ve listened to his comments this season and he hasn’t made comments detrimental to White, Greene, or CF, for example. He has made a point of saying that Black was the best player in practice a couple times. Black seems like the absolute perfect first big off the bench for this team – except the fouling. When he can play for stretches, it’s usually positive. Last game it appeared that Self had no concern about Black’s availability, meaning he didn’t pull him really to protect him from fouling out. The practice explanation on the Lucas vs. Black thing is probably the best – but all that counts is what happens when the lights come on. So far, advantage Lucas. But it’s what Self is looking for, that’s important. Seems like Black is the guy.
@jaybate - I don’t know, jb, still seems like Cy Young stuff to me. We are simply crimson and blue soldiers here, and glad to have the general back. RCJH back at you. Take care of yourself.
@jaybate 1.0 I get what you are saying. What is your take on Lucas?
Black had 17 point in a game where referees allowed an inordinate amount of fouls and basically swallowed their whistles; this is not the norm and most every other game this season has been called the other way around.
Unfortunately for Tarik, the change in contact rules have taken what is/was one of the more important part of his game, i.e. physicality. Unless we run into a refereeing crew like the one at the Georgetown game, the chances of Tarik having another big game are pretty slim.
@wissoxfan83 2AD = more good players for everyone. There are only so many roster spots. It would be great for college basketball, but it’s an NBA rule not NCAA.
All the NCAA could do is penalize the schools, maybe by requiring a minimum number of years per scholly awarded (i.e. 2 years). That way if a player left after one year the school is down a scholarship the next year. This would deter most schools from being OAD factories due to the inevitable down year. I don’t think Calipari would care. However, this would penalize schools like KU who have an unexpected OAD in Embiid.
Rodgers visits KU…
I thought my brother in law was full of it when he said he saw Rodgers in Lawrence last night. hmm
drgnslayr last edited by
It’s time to thump OSU… unless we get into extreme foul trouble!
Watch the fouls today, boys!
Jesse Newell last edited by
Doogie Snotlieb is butt hurt over his Cowpokes taking a beating from the good guys. He was reduced to babbling about San Diego State in his effort to not give KU credit for smashing his alma mater in the first half.
@KansasComet: Lucas is a fine player and will assume Black’s role next year. Right now, Black is coming on and Jamari and he are learning to play together. Its a numbers thing. Lucas could do fine. But Self is honoring Black’s last season, and Jamari is coming around as a 4, after having played the five the last two years. Jamari is not pretty on offense, but he keeps getting it done in most other ways and brings that explosiveness. Landen is just one injury away from being on the line of fire and he will do well, if needed. Frankly, he moves around the floor the best of all our bigs, even Embiid and Perry. He just doesn’t have Perry’s gifts around the hole and Embiid’s twinkle toes. Landen will not be smoked out by the incoming frosh either. He will be hard to beat out, even though Self probably will bring him second. Landen is a player.
@jaybate 1.0 Thanks. I can dig it. Good points.
@JayHawkFanToo To me (bears fan) that’s like seeing coach with a Missouri Tiger.
Wishawk last edited by
Sometimes I hate it when I call it right. I though that Forte might be the x-factor and darn it if the smurf-on-steroids part-deux (Keiton Paige was the original one) didn’t almost single-handedly steal the game.
Gotlieb is a douche and the bag it came in. When Seth Davis indicated that KU is a legitimate final four team, Dougie started to whine and bring up the SDSU game. Davis gave him a look that basically said…you are moron, and told him…see you in March. Dougie tried to backpedal and looked even more pathetic.
Doug Gotlieb has officially " Jumped the shark." The older posters will know what I am talking about.