What does Frank have to do to get a whistle?
ajvan last edited by
Here’s something I’ve been puzzling over for awhile.
The OU thriller certainly wasn’t the first time “Pitbull” Frank Mason has been hurt by the refs. Against OU, Higgins was the main offender, but the phantom fouls and eye-popping non-calls came early and often. I’d argue Frank was the player most consistently screwed by the reffing in that game.
Furthermore…I don’t think this is a rare occurrence with Frank. In the season’s early-going, it’s been common for him to drive to the rim and take hits under the goal while the refs swallow their whistles and stare like they’re watching early-round love taps in a UFC bout.
What does Frank have to do to get a whistle? And why aren’t his drives into the trees more frequently rewarded?
My only answers are pure speculation. All the more so because Frank’s often the shortest player on the court, and you’d think that help him get to the line more often, but it’s clearly not the case.
Is it because he doesn’t have a big rep nationally and refs haven’t heard of him? Or because he’s built like a mini-tank even at his height? Or because he doesn’t chat up the refs like a more outgoing player might do?
Frank doesn’t get his share of calls and I don’t get it. Anyone have a hypothesis?
Good question! I wonder if Bill will step up about it. He was basically clotheslined on the last play of regulation. I would think MAYBE it was because it was so close to the end of the game and “refs aren’t gonna call that”, but then they call the over-the-back on Landen right after that!
I don’t know if it’s just because he’s small and tough, but he’s certainly not getting the benefit of the doubt.
I had the same thought during the game. Is there anyone in the country that gets knocked around more with no foul called? He hits the floor maybe 10-20 times a game, some of that is possibly his style of play and the way he gives up his body. I don’t know, but he takes a beating and it may show toward March.
All I can think of is that the refs think he’s so short that everyone should block him. I wish we would do something different at the end of the shot clock!
IMO Frank is a better scorer on the drive Devonte is a much better passer.
@Barney Dg has a nice pull up. Dish would be nice too.
All I can think of is that the refs think he’s so short that everyone should block him. I wish we would do something different at the end of the shot clock!
Just as long as he doesn’t flop or flail his arms like a sniper took him out from 400 yards.
“Is it because he doesn’t have a big rep nationally and refs haven’t heard of him? Or because he’s built like a mini-tank even at his height? Or because he doesn’t chat up the refs like a more outgoing player might do?”
I think you nailed it here.
Refs typically think “no harm done” so they will let contact slide.
The “no harm done” isn’t just about the care of the safety of players… but of their own reputation.
No one likes whiners… but I have no doubt that guys that talk up refs are taking one of the steps necessary to get calls. Having a coach argue for it is also a big help. Flopping isn’t necessary and hurts the game, but showing a bit of drama during the foul is very helpful. Devonte and Frank both use the head jerk drama sometimes. It seems to work better for Devonte, the less stout of the two.
So why does Devonte get more calls going his way over Frank? Devonte will lay on the ground for a while. He is more likely to roll around on the ground and show he is in pain. It stops play and has fans looking on thinking “these refs need to better control the game.”
What I am getting at is that Frank needs to linger around on the ground more often and illustrate some pain. More like they do in soccer. During his time down, that also gives Self time to scream at refs.
Any disruption from the game instantly points fan focus on officiating. When I said “no harm done” I meant from the ref’s perspective of not bringing attention to the refs.
Disruptions in the game instantly bring attention to the officiating. Refs do what they can to prevent that.
@drgnslayr Well put!!!
I noticed Perry in the OU game when he was on the right block that when he spun and the shot did or didn’t fall and there was contact he looked at the baseline ref a lot, like, “what do I have to do to get a call here?”
He too seems to get jobbed due to his size, or lack there off.
Announcers are always funny, when they say if it’s a foul you have to call it, or if it was found in the first 5 mins of a game it was a foul the last 5 mins of the game. Yet it’s only when it’s about a player they are backing that game.
Was Landen’s foul at the end of regulation called correctly? Yes it was only because the decapitating of Frank (perhaps a little over the top there by me) wasn’t called 1 or 2 seconds earlier, since the refs wanted to let the game play out and not be the cause of a team winning or losing.
Landen DID commit the foul, and that was a good call… had it not been for the obvious call they just missed. I don’t see how the refs missed the other call if they could clearly see the Landen foul.
Perry gets ripped on calls constantly because he doesn’t make a big enough deal about it.
Disrupting the game is the way to start getting more calls.
Devonte gets calls because when he doesn’t he instantly complains and holds the game up, or lays on the ground showing pain.
@drgnslayr Dg sells! I get a kick out of him, lil flair for the dramatic.
justanotherfan last edited by
I think the only reason Landon got called for the over the back is because Lattin fell down and Landon was right in front of the rim. If they let that go, Landon gets an uncontested layup with two seconds to go for the game winner after he went over the back. Landon gained too great an advantage, so they had to call it.
As for Frank, I think he gets a fair amount of calls. He goes to the line about 4 times a game, which is second on the team behind Perry. That’s a decent amount for a guard that drives to the basket.
There were some calls missed in this last game, but overall, I think Frank has been officiated pretty fairly.
Yes, and if I remember it right, Lattin continued to hold the ball as he was going down, further accentuating Landen’s reach over the top of him because Landen continued to hold on, too. It became a more obvious call as he was going down. Not from the contact, but from just exposing that Landen was over the top of him.
RockChalkinTexas last edited by
Really good analysis of Frank’s defense on Buddy vs. the time Wayne was guarding him at the start of the game. This has charts and GIFs to prove Luke Winn’s analysis. We Are No. 1 in SI Power Rankings.
joeloveshawks last edited by
@Crimsonorblue22 Me too. I love Frank but I prefer Perry and Wayne taking the last shots due to their size.
Wow! Thanks for that great link!
And to think that Jay Bilas doesn’t even have Buddy in his Top 5 group of NBA draft selection.
Buddy’s stock has exploded. His game is lifting so high so quickly that no one knows when he will reach a plateau. It is exciting to watch him improve at the rate he is improving.
Buddy is a true volume scorer, and his style of play fits right into the NBA mold. I can see him putting up really good stats his first year in the league. In his second year, I can see him explode his stats and be right at the top with all the star volume scorers.
I just hope he stays healthy. It is such a tragedy when guys get hurt and drop their performance down a big notch. The tragedy is not just with the player, but the fans miss out on so much, too.
It was great seeing the game stats specifically concerning Buddy and being guarded by different KU players. I think there is a lot to learn from those stats, and in the same time, the stats are a bit misleading. I think Frank did a better job than the stats show, especially when comparing to Wayne’s stats on Buddy. I don’t think Wayne was that much better than Frank. I just think Buddy and OU took quite a while to get into a scoring flow and Wayne was fortunate to guard Buddy when they weren’t in their best flow. But I’m not trying to take away anything on Wayne’s defense. Both Wayne and Frank did a great job “containing” Buddy. As the article mentioned, Buddy could have easily gone for 60+ points in this game.
I’m not sure Buddy is the stud some of you think he is. Don’t get me wrong he’s a great college player, but the NBA is a whole another animal. Too many great college players make it to the NBA, and are never heard of again.
I’m just guessing but if Buddy was the man he would have already left for the NBA. I could be wrong though.
@DoubleDD Players develop at different rates and Hield is a late bloomer. He played AAU ball with Ellis so KU’s staff was very aware of him, but didn’t recruit him until late and even then they didn’t recruit him very heavily. Hield is a projected top 10 pick right now and there are plenty of very good NBA players who were late bloomers and 4 year college players.
DoubleDD Banned last edited by DoubleDD
Alright lets make a $20 bet?? If Buddy makes an all star game in his first 5 years. The check is in the mail. If Buddy doesn’t make an all star game. in his first 5 years. Then you will start a topic on KUbuckets
The title should be I was wrong.
Then you will write a post telling other posters how you will never ever question @DoubleDD again.
@DoubleDD I could care less what Hield does in the NBA as I am not a fan of the league. I do know that he is plenty dangerous playing for OU…against us.
I will take you up on that bet. With an exception if he gets injured. Can’t account for bad luck.
Buddy is a volume scorer, and the method for getting his points looks like it will transfer just fine to the next level.
I think he will adapt fine to the NBA… perhaps even easier than our guy Wigs.
Curious question: You are a NBA GM… would you rather have Wigs or Buddy?
@drgnslayr wiggs! 100 %
@DoubleDD So if a player isn’t an all star, they’re a nothing player that gets forgotten about? That’s the two options you’ve presented. I don’t think Hield is either category. I think he’ll be a good NBA 2 that’s a career 10-12 point scorer because he’s a good shooter.
Wigs without even thinking about. Buddy is good not sure he’s the type of player you would build an NBA team around. I’m not sure I’d even waste a lottery pick on Buddy. Yet that is just me.
Please spare me? I could tell you the sky is blue and the grass is green and you would find a reason to disagree with me. The reality is the odds are against Buddy making it big in the NBA, or even being a good player. That’s not opinion just the numbers.
Anthony Bennett called…he said being a great player in college does not mean you will do great or even stay in the NBA, Adam Morrison agreed.
@DoubleDD You’re too blinded by your homerism to make rational judgements on players, so it’s not possible to have rational debates with you. My opinion on Hield is on this site (different thread) and it’s not all star good and it’s not out of the league in the blink of an eye like you think.
Maybe you should learn to read?? Before you break down some one and what they’ve posted? What a novel ideal HUH?
Sorry facts hurt, but numbers say the Buddy will fail in his bid to be an NBA star or even be a good player in the NBA. Again It’s not an opinion or even my opinion. You didn’t even read that did you? Again it’s not an opinion or even my opinion. Did you read it that time?
Go back and read my posts I neither claimed Buddy would succeed or fail as and NBA player. I merely pointed out the odds are against Buddy and any young rising player. The odds are so slanted I would be willing to make a bet.
I’m blinded by my homerism? I have no clue what your even try to imply? By the way aren’t you an OU fan?
JayHawkFanToo last edited by JayHawkFanToo
Please enlighten us on what numbers tell us that Hield will not be successful in the NBA? Most every draft projection has Hield as a first round pick and the more recent ones have him as a lottery pick, I would think these numbers are the opposite or the numbers you used for you analysis…
I am not saying that Hield will be a star in the NBA but the numbers appear to indicate that he should do well in the League…after the last game I believe it.
P.S, A little civility still goes a long way, in this forum and in life in general.
That’s funny I thought I was the one being civil. After all I guess I can’t see past my homerism to have rational judgements on players?
So being drafted in the 1st round guarantees success? Do you really want to have that debate? Also I never said Buddy couldn’t be a success, just said the odds are against him. Does anybody read before they post?
P.S. Civility is a wonderful thing but nothing works with people that think their poop doesn’t stink.
jaybate 1.0 last edited by jaybate 1.0
The refs feel they got exploited by BAD BALL and this is pay back.
Opposing players have learned the refs will only call fouls on drives when contact hits the arms. Thus, it is open season on face smahes.
This is the refs way of saying they don’t like refereeing drive ball
You are right, being drafted in the First Round does not “guarantee” success but it is decent indicator of potential success, in other words, the odds would be in his favor rather than the other way around.
Putting down other poster’s opinions while stating yours as fact does not show civility. I will not get into a poop argument with you…I will defer to your expertise in the subject.
@DoubleDD You are correct. The chances are that Buddy will not be an NBA star. That can also be said of most of the college players who are drafted this year including many of the lottery picks. It is very interesting how many of the very good players who were later round choices or free agents from Northeast Southwest Podunk State. Any one who would take a bet as to whether any current college player will be an NBA star has more money than sense.
On the other hand, Buddy has demonstrated that he is able to improve year after year and may have a shot at NBA stardom. He has demonstrated that he is a star in college and KU had better keep him under 46 in Norman or we are toast there. From what I have seen in college ball this year, I would be more comfortable with him taking a game winning shot than anyone.
@DoubleDD I disagree with you and your reaction is to try and make a bet off of something 5 years in the future. That’s fine if you think Hield won’t pan out, but basing that opinion on the odds simply because the odds say he won’t pan out or that he wasn’t a OAD is a very flimsy leg to stand on.
What specifically about Hield’s game will keep him from staying in the league like you think?
bskeet last edited by bskeet
Buddy is shaping up to be have a phenomenal final season of college basketball. He is clearly a great college player. Even better, he’s a good kid… so it’s easy to like him.
He’ll get drafted in the NBA, which is an amazing accomplishment – period. And well deserved.
However, great college players do not always become great NBA players.
Occasionally a good college player becomes a great NBA player (Steph Curry, Kawhi Leonard.) But it seems there are more examples of great college players becoming average professionals (Tyler Hansbrough, Evan Turner, Jimmer Fredette, Andrew Bogut. and these are just the Wooden Award Winners).
It is what it is.
Even more confounding is the fact that what makes a player successful at the next level isn’t even totally within the player’s control. They could have the talent and skills that would make them above average, yet land in a system that is a bad fit, or with other talent that overlaps or isn’t complementary… or any number of other things.
All I’m saying is that it’s hard to predict how these guys will fare at the next level. The only college player I’m willing to wager money on is Ben Simmons. But even with his talent, it might not translate to greatness at the next level.
Points well taken.
I just have the feeling Buddy will kick arse at the next level. But he will have to go out there and prove it like everyone else.
RockChalkinTexas last edited by
I have been pondering the same thing…where does that 3 feet rule come from? Is it a new one? Is there even a rule that says so? Inquiring minds want to know…
I agree with that…
There is no rule for players giving space. They have full access to the in-bound court.
The problem is not enough space on the out-of-bounds on the side. That should be regulated and there should be enough room so the defender can step right up to the out-of-bounds line and still have enough room for the passer.
RockChalkinTexas last edited by RockChalkinTexas
@JayHawkFanToo That was Pomeroy’s point. There is NO such rule. Jeff Goodman was on ESPN saying that it should have been called because of the “3 feet rule” right after the game on SportsCenter with SVC. They even have a video asking something like “Was Mason’s Play Illegal?” Pomeroy was tired of the bs coming from him and that’s why he tweeted that.
EdwordL last edited by
On PHOGNet, someone posted a link to the NCAA rules, noting that pages 69-72 specifically address the inbounds pass. There is no rule concerning 3 feet from the boundary. The 3-foot “cushion” is lateral and permits the inbounding player to make a step pass. Also, another poster on that board noted that while Gottlieb continued to whine about it, Goodman later tweeted that he had been wrong about the so-called “3 feet” rule. I say Gottlieb’s still got something on backwards.
I know. I watched and followed the entire process and kept wondering if there was “new” rule I did not know that required 3 feet…with all the new rules that were recently implemented I wondered if there was one I missed…apparently there is not one.
DanR last edited by
Furthermore, it’s the same amount of out-of-bounds space for both teams.
@DanR ha ha!
@drgnslayr If there is no rule, then why do the refs make the defender step back?
nuleafjhawk last edited by
@Hawk8086 Because they want to give every possible opportunity for KU to lose.
@Hawk8086 I know when I officiated games it depends on the gyms. How much space there is. On open ended gyms a player that is in bounding only can step back so far as well.
So with the sideline at AFH having the scorers table so close to it they have to advise the defender to step back for space at the beginning of the play.
That’s my interpolation anyway
I played in a few gyms when we’d inbounds I front of the opposing fans when you went to run into the floor they’d try and trip you or pull on your shorts.
Actually saw a ref get tripped by a fan as he was back peddling down te court. They couldn’t prove it was on purpose. But found out after the game it was their coaches wife that did it. Lol
@JRyman bet it was Marsha’s wife!
@JRyman So…if there was not much room…and the ref had to ask Frank to step back a few feet…doesn’t that become a defacto “rule”? Meaning…isn’t there validity to the point that Frank shouldn’t have stepped back close to the inbound line? And thus maybe violated a “rule”?
@Hawk8086 not sure how you’d call it and on what terms. “Cause I said so” won’t hold up.
Now if Frank makes ℅ txt with him or the ball while crossing the line the whistle should blow and its usually a T for interference.