Pieces fallin in place
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Self isn’t the old Self. He promised Oubre minutes (well… let’s call it a “politician’s promise”).
It will simply be insane if we can’t nail one of those top guys. We have the absolute perfect situation for all of them. I know I am biased. But seriously… I can put up the list of advantages we have… but we’ve all done it a million times now so I will save the redundancy.
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@drgnslayr Jeff Borzello certainly likes our chances with the big dog.
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@drgnslayr just like we said bud, it would really shock me now if he ends up anywhere but here. I mean cause now Giles at Duke, and fully expect Allen to land at Kentucky, so where else because Ku is high on his list- - - -whaaaa ya I heard Mississippi St was trying to push, but I don’t think that’s happening. So you thinking Udoka, that would be a sweet class for us come on Mitch you said you was going to recruit for us make it pay off lol, Udoka. ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I’m Biased too, I absolutely think Bolden has the best chance to play right away here & keep himself relevant for a future in the NBA. It would be insane if we missed on all that talent out there. But it could happen, I even think its a good possibility the way things have gone. I’ve been in this funk where I’m expecting the worst, hoping for the best, would be ecstatic with good news. But my gut says no right now
I think Certain players he’s given the keys to car immediately. But even Oubre sat early which we have all thrown around as maybe a negative that recruits see with Self.
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Any idea when Allen, Bolden, and Udoka will announce? Who’s blinking first?
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Boy that’s a tough one, none have given an exact date.
If I had to guess Bolden could be a winter or spring signee. If the Giles Announcement does anything to speed up that time-frame we will have to see in the next week.
Allen could sign this fall but I’m not sure he’s done taking visits.
Good luck getting anything on Udoka.
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My optimism isn’t about landing Bolden… It is optimism that we land at least one of the elite post players left (of which Bolden is one of those).
My favorite catch would be Udoka. His potential is every bit that of what JoJo had. Maybe a bit less footwork capabilities but more than made up for with his power. A guy like this only comes around every few decades. He reminds me of Shaq.
Bolden is a great catch, too. He is no where near the explosiveness of a player like Giles… but he would be our next version of a Perry Ellis. He looks to be another “designer.” That means frustrating moments like we have had with Perry… but when Perry leaves KU we will soon realize how much we miss his production.
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@konkeyDong Nice link bud, this is ANOTHER where I feel we have like a pretty decent chance. percentages I would say my feel right now is like maybe 60% KU 40% Flordia State like Jeff says the main reason Flordia State so close is because they have been there from the start, and the relationship Hamilton has with the family, the bad for them is already other bigs on roster, and they after the other big boy also. Plus agan I don’t think he has to worry about competing with Bolden, I think it would be worked out, Bolden probably at the 4 and Udoka at the 5 we shall see. he is surpose to commit or announce in December so got a bit yet. ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@FarSideHawk I know Udoka is announcing in Dec, just my feel is Bolden might announce fairly soon
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@BeddieKU23 again I read on him he isUdoka says he is going to announce in December, I think Allen and Bolden will both announce this fall, maybe more Bolden then Allen.
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@jayballer54 This is a point I’ve made previously, but why is it that year after year, the “pieces fall into place” so much later for us than other schools? Why can’t we get early commits from top recruits?
This year, 6 other schools already have multiple commitments from Rivals top 50 ranked players - Duke (4), Michigan State (4), Kentucky (2 top 30), Miss. St. (3), and UCONN and UCLA with 2 each. KU = zero/zip/zilch/nada high ranked commits. Self usually ends up with a strong class, but not without a lot of angst and hair-pulling along the way.
What are we doing wrong or they are doing right? Again, they are all highly ranked, esp. Giles, so not all the top guys wait until spring obviously. Is every other coach guaranteeing playing time? Are we just a back-up choice for these types of players? Is it all a ShoeCo thing?
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@DCHawker one reason is that nobody knows what are guys are doing next year. Kentucky and Duke guys are a nba prep school, so there is always room for the next year guys. Unless you have the twins. But I hate it too!
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This post is deleted!
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@DCHawker well guy, I have some theory well maybe not so much theory, but ideas on why, which I have brought up her before, some have agreed possibly, others not so much but could be a multiple of things. Mine is just mine, and I have changed my way into thinking this, didn’t use to think like this, but I now still WONDER. Some say well, these players are now waiting more to see what other players are going to do- - - that’s true, I can see that, some say they wanna wait and see who is coming back so they can see about playing time- - -ok maybe.But you know what my thought on that is? To me waiting to see about playing time, just doesn’t cut it, I mean if your a top notch recruit, one of the top 20 players, why are you waiting? If your as good as people say you are, if you say you are, then why wait? if your that good sign, get it over with and then next season go in a compete for the spot, if your good, TAKE IT, you should be confident in yourself, Whaaa you afraid of the challenge? the competition at your spot? your a top 20 player in the nation, you back down from nobody, accept the challenge and let the best player win out. If your not up to the challenge to compete for your position if need be then my question is- - -DO WE REALLY WANT YOU? do we want asomeone who when things get tough that’s gonna back away? as a top 20 player do you just want that position given to you, instead of you earning the position? Thing is guy also is as KU fans, we think our school is the best, and wonder why these recruits wait or not sign with us- - -we think what the hell we are KU, and I agree, we have ALOT of things in our favor, we have tradition, we have exposure, we develop players, we are 2nd in getting players in the N.B.A and a much as we can’t understand WHY these guys wouldn’t want to come, as bad as it is, you look we are butting heads with the same other big time programs all the time, and its usually KENTUCKY & DUKE and lets face it, those two just have as much of the same things if not more as much as I hate to say it. Duke has championships & a legendary coach, and Kentucky has all the championships, I dunno, but a lot of those kids its a pickem for them, that’s their luxury, and unfortunely as fans we have no say, Now my thought though too is and I have mentioned, and some others are wondering, IS IT A TIME for some coaching changes in our staff, I feel that we are getting some dead weight, someone is NOT closing out on these kids, if you sell your program, and I mean really do your job and sell it, grab it by the throat and not let up then there shouldn’t be a reason we are losing some of these kids, example Terrance Fergurson, and he is just one. wish I had the answers buddy, but if we have recruiters that’s getting beaten at their jobs, then maybe its time to find people who can get it done, example Aaron Miles give him a shot just my thoughts ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@Statmacdam he would be a nice catch, think that is still a wide open recruitemebt, although I’m sure you know a lot more then me, mine is all gut, and what little I can manage to find and pick up. keep us posted buddy, ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Like most of us on here I live and breathe KU basketball and I think all of the top recruits should become Jayhawks. That said, I still think recruiting to KU is really hard. Yes, we have the tradition, the history, the great coach, the updated dorms, the constant TV exposure, the amazing future HOF coach, etc. Even with all of that an 18 year old kid still needs to be convinced to move to small town in the middle of nowhere as far from the coasts as you can get. I feel like I can say this having grown up in Kansas.
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@joeloveshawks I agree, but the guys that have gone here speak very highly of KU and I think that helps.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Totally. We have had amazing players and a lot of the guys really love Lawrence and even end up spending time there later in life. Just saying that I think one thing that makes it tough on Bill is where KU is located.
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I think playing style is probably the biggest obstacle for Self. His system isn’t freshmen friendly and that’s not going to appeal to a lot of people and they have to be sold more on KU than other schools and that takes time to do that. This is one of the drawbacks in being so rigid and inflexible in running his system no matter what. Coach K had this issue until a few years ago and once he started showing more adaptability, the OAD’s started headed to Durham. Cal and Roy have always had freshmen friendly systems.
If Self shows the flexibility he did for most of the WUG, he’ll start attracting more of the higher end guys earlier instead of the spring. It’ll take a couple of years of established system adaptability for recruiting to catch up, but that’s what has to happen first.
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You both made great points. We have a disadvantage in recruiting because of the lack of top talent in the area. Tough to beat Duke for kids in the NC area. Tough to beat a lot of teams when the home schools put the pressure on. There’s clearly a pecking order in schools and we have clearly fell just short of the top right now. Each & every year that can change.
From the exhibition game, it sure didn’t look like we had any less restrictions in scheme. Looked like the same ol Self offense.
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@BeddieKU23 the hi lo looked pretty good, opened it up for the perimeter guys, but they were cold. Also looked like Mason could drive anytime he wanted.
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@drgnslayr well just saw that Udoka will be making decision soon, but I’m not VIP member so couldn’t read story off 247. I had read he was going to announce in December, maybe he has changed his mind, announce sooner, maybe that’s who we were trying to close deal out in a recruiting battle today. wish I had the membership. would be sweet bud. ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I think you are spot on concerning the rigidity hurting recruiting.
If he did move up his decision, good chance it ties into Giles committing first, and a few others to drop like dominoes behind Giles.
I have believed all along it was between us and FSU. It really doesn’t make sense for his career to go to FSU, but the convenience of staying in the same state may be a factor. Udoka would be a complete MONSTER in the hi/lo! Actually, he could turn out to be our best hi/lo player of all times by the time he leaves Kansas.
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@drgnslayr very good point, like I said just saw it off 247, but you have to be a VIP and I don’t belong, I know it was going to be in December, we shall see. wouldn’t it be great to land Bolden and Udoka both. ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 Crystal Ball has Udoka as an 88% lean toward Florida State. 6% to KU and Kentucky.
Crystal Ball is wrong all the time, but rarely that wrong.
Hope they are in this case…would be nice to have a true space eater in the paint.
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@drgnslayr I don’t think it’s specifically the rigidity of the system as much as the system itself not being freshmen friendly. If the system were more freshmen friendly, Self could still be very rigid with it and land elite players early.
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@SoftballDad2011 ya I don’t put near the trust in crystal ball anymore, I have saw where it says one thing, then before you pull it up you see someone predicting them to go some where else, as a matter of fact there is an analyst that did that same thing just the day before yesterday predicting KU, I like to pull up the individual analyst predictions and see which one is sayin which school
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I’m sure you are probably right on that… but also the rigidity of his system doesn’t encourage players to create, especially for themselves. It is a far cry from Calipari and his claims to just be a servant of his players and the only thing he cares about is seeing how many players he can put in the league. It is all a bunch of bull, because if Cal just sent players to the league but had a losing record, UK would toss him out like old bread.
But good recruiting is a lot about perceptions. I think even the rigidity of our system feeds into the perceptions. “Go to Kansas and have ZERO freedom on the court…” All of this is a perception game played on recruits. “Stuck playing the hi/lo.”
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I like to do that too. There are some individuals that seem more in tune than others most of the time.
It is a tool and an unreliable one at that.
for a tool to be useful you have to know how it is made and how it works. And based on your comments, you obviously do.
To me it is best used to gauge which direction the wind is blowing, how hard it has blown and whether the direction is starting to shift.
Almost all of the time when there is a landslide consensus for one school at the time a recruit sets their announcement date, the direction won’t won’t change …because by the time they set their date someone in their trusted circle has already spilled the beans…and the analysts have already reflected that.
I have found that the tool is a lot less effective for someone like Andrew Wiggins who keeps his decision close to the first and keeps a close circle. Or when there is not much seperation between the top two or three ranked schools.
my interpretation has been wrong before…and I hope it is on this one! I am intrigued by Udoka.
I do think the wind has started to shift on Bolden and that he will be a Jayhawk unless another 4-5 star big commits soon and pushes him elsewhere.
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If Bill Self should depart for the NBA sooner than later, I would say it is this OAD recruiting nightmare which would drive him from the collegiate game. And not just the RECRUITING of top level talent, but the COACHING of such soon-to-be-gone athletes. Self has perfected a system designed for incremental longterm player development; but is forced to bend that system almost to the breaking point by time and effort spent in luring, then hastily transfiguring sows’ ears into silk purses. I think the guy is overpaid…but maybe not by much. He is balanced on a mighty high tightrope.
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@REHawk good pt, or maybe he retires. The last few years w/Embiids injuries, cliffs ineligibility, Perry’s injury and now dealing w/ncaa, again, has to really be taxing on a guy that loves to coach. Mix in these top-ranked kids that want to go to a nba factory, not much fun! Signing Bragg early last year was a gem of a find, hopefully there are a few more of those kids that fall in love w/KU!
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the other KU site is reporting Udoka will be a spring Signee. Maybe he commits in the winter or waits.
Allen sounds like the most likely to sign early.
Bolden had said in the summer he was a spring signee. If what’s gone on with Giles doesn’t force his hand I can see him waiting.
Jackson- spring, Monk- spring
New Guard interest Jones- spring will watch KU closely to see if he would fit with the team. Think of another Vick, long, lean, quick, athletic.
Sounds to me we will be waiting until the year is over for anyone else, AGAIN
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@BeddieKU23 I saw that to this morning. You know what that tells me? That tells me NOBODY knows squat about what these kids are going to do. You could go to 100 different sites and get 100 different answers, it’s a crap shoot with these kids. They can say one thing today, and then something completely different 2 or 3 days later. Example?- - - -Udoka right off the top of my head, 1st thing I see is that he says he will announce in December, then - - - - I see he is moving his decision up from December, which told me or so I believed that he had made the decision and wanted to get it over with, possibly tired of the pressure of the recruiting,- - -then this morning I read that it will probably be spring time, so you just have to play the wait and see. As far as Bolden I don’t buy it that it will be spring before he announces, IF I had the money I’d be willing to bet substantial amount he commits BEFORE spring. WHY? mainly because the 3 main schools that he was or is REALLY interested in, things are taking shape.I know you seem to feel he is or strong chance he will end up at Duke, just can’t believe that, long before Duke KU was a heavy lean on Bolden from the get go. So now with Giles committing to Duke, and chances Allen to Kentucky, things seem pretty set, perfect fit at KU for him. Giles plays more of a 4, and yes I know Bolden is surpose to be a 5 but wants to be able to play some 4, which also fits for KU he would be given a chance at that position at KU, where if he joined Giles at Duke they would be fighting for the same position, and we know who wins out there. Chances of him having a better shot at that position are much better with KU also in on Audoka, he lands at KU, UDOKA plays the 5, and Bolden the 4, OR even if we don’t get Udoka, then the transfer that messed his leg up and sitting out forget his name, he will play the 5 and Bolden the 4 makes more sense, just don’t buy him waiting till springtime. ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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If Bragg is here next year he’s pretty much guaranteed to play the 4 & start, if Bolden’s desire is to play the 4 then Bragg is in the way don’t you think? I think Bolden would be interchangeable at either position in the KU offense but he seems to want a school that will showcase him as a 4 for the next level. If playing early, starting & needing to play PF, how do we sign him if Bragg is here.
In the scenario that Bolden is wanting to start right away at PF then the only schools that could offer him that is Alabama or Oklahoma. He’d walk right in there as the big catch at both schools. At KU Bragg potentially is in his way, Duke has Giles, Kentucky has Gabriel, Killeya-Jones etc.
If Bolden is okay with being the quote on quote “5” in the offense then he’s got a starting job at KU immediately.
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@BeddieKU23 Bragg would not be a hindrance to Bolden starting. Self has rarely had a true 5 in his line up and has usually had two 4’s with one who could play one the perimeter and one in the post. Bragg can play the perimeter and Bolden can play in the post so there’s no reason Bragg should keep Bolden from starting. It’s Lucas, Coleby, and Lightfoot that Bolden has to beat out.
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Gary Bedore put out an article today about the Giles signing, not the relevant part here. In that article, he talked about the rest of KU’s recruiting targets including a new name to that list, 6-4 guard Andrew Jones (38th on Rivals, 35th on ESPN, and 34th on 24/7). Of KU’s remaining targets, only De’Aaron Fox is signing during the early signing period. Jarrett Allen is a possible early signing, but nothing is official with him on when he may sign. Marques Bolden, Josh Jackson, Udoka Azubuike, Malik Monk, and Jones are going to be spring signings so it should be pretty quiet on the recruiting front for KU for awhile.
On KU offering Jones (@Statmachine, I would guess that Allen and Jones are the players that the KU players you talk to were referring to based on Bedore’s article), it sounds like this might be a conditional offer dependent on either Selden or Svi, mostly Selden, leaving early based on how Jones said his conversation with Self went when he was officially extended an offer.
Self is proactive right now still extending offers to players, but with everybody KU is a serious candidate to land being a spring signing, it should be a mostly uneventful few weeks in recruiting for KU.
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The NBA has moved away from the Center and Power Forward differentiation and both positions are used interchangeably. Last time I checked there are only 5 true starting Center in the NBA and most of the players we think of as centers are now called Power Forwards; there is bigger difference between the traditional Power Forwards and the new. “stretch” Power forwards that can step outside and hit the 3.
The trend is now moving to college and It would not be a surprise to see 2 PF and no center playing together. No player on the official KU current roster is listed as Center.
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This situation drove Donovan away. Pitino is only hanging till his kid at UMinn has the bonafides to run UL, or land with an elite Nike program. Self’s best move, if he can stand it, is to hang on long enough to hire Tyler and get him two years of assisting at some level for KU ON HIS RESUME, and then take the biggest pro check he can get. This 3-4 year path will get him a shot coaching an Olympic team, which he clearly wants to do.
Self almost has to know that once he and KU TOOK THE MONEY from Adidas, and adidas couldn’t break the apparent embargo, that that killed any chance he had of winning a bunch of rings in his final decade of coaching, unless something catastrophic happens to Nike.
I suspect he is only hanging on for Tyler and a shot at the Olympics, maybe the conference title run, too. But to me, the Greatest KU coach since Phog Allen is on a short fuse now, because of the damn Big Shoe politics. Breaks my heart to write it. He coulda been the greatest. He was perfectly prepared to join the ranks of the all time ring winners, when he turned 50. But the apparent embargo hit at exactly the worst time for him. And the tragedy is KU and Self made the choice.
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@jayballer54 we gotta get Bolden. I really am not on par with all the recruiting stuff. Im too focused on the season right now. But, yah, we have to get Bolden. Beyond that, Idk.
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@jaybate-1.0 Well, Self’s determined lean on the defensive game is keeping KU in the annual ballpark. That’s not the best of lures to snag many of the look-at me superstars…but for those like Selby, Diallo, Ben Mac and a few others who deeply test NCAA guidelines. Hell of a twist for a coach who, given the right talent, is unparalleled among current collegiate peers, including Coach K (in my humble opinion). Gotta hope that Self and family, as well as his topnotch staff, can handle the Shoe Co. stresses in full stride; grin at the frustrations which handicapped Jayhawk Basketball extends yearly to Nike superprograms.
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@BeddieKU23 well here it is, perfect example of me mentioning to you this being a crap shoot on decision day and committing, like I said I 1st saw Udoka would announce in December, then we saw the other article that he was going to be a spring time commit, and now I just read that chances are he will commit early again in an article off 247 sports, so like I said, its a huge crap shoot, just depends on where you read an article, who to believe, who not to believe. bottom line is only time will tell I guess. ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Agreed, I think we have a shot if he does commit early. Nobody knows nothing though…
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@Lulufulu hang in there, I understand where your coming from, maybe i’m to focused with the crimson and blue binders on, but I feel really confident that Marques will be coming to KU not really going to get into repeating myself AGAIN might make people upset but as the header I posted said pieces falling into place, although I DO agree with Beddie23 to some respect he is ours to lose unless another big 4-5 star signs before him, my only question to that would be WHO would that be? but I am absorbed in the recruiting, I keep stats throught the season on the team, the players, I love getting into it deep. things like keeping track of the leading scorer for each game, leading rebounder for each game, individual pts per game, team shooting pct’s individuals shooting pct, individual reb avg per game, team reb per game, free throw pct, team turnovers, avg turnovers per game, individuals assist avg, team asst avg, individuals blocks, and do the same for opponents as a team same things I listed, I get dep into this stuff during the season, got 3 ring binders that make up stats, I have wriiten down each big 12 teams schedules and keep track of records and watch multiple of big 12 games thru the year. but not to worry I believe Bolden will land in JAYHAWK NATION ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BeddieKU23 exactly , your spot on only the one that knows for sure is THE PLAYER theirself, and half the time I’m not even sure they know until they wake up one morning and like a light goes off and they say hmmmmmmm, think I"ll announce today. you know the one thing I Can’t stand buddy? I can’t stand the way these kids have turned this recruiting process into a circus. You know what I mean? you know, calling for these huge press conferences in front of national media, ESPN and such, having a table with all these dam hats lined up, or hidden under the table, what happened to the days they decided called the coach and the Coach announced it to the media after he got the commit? Dam I’m getting old lol, well the hell is Rodger Bohensthil, or Roger Morningstar, or Tommy Kivisto, or Rick Suttle, or the Knight brothers when you need them lmao, now I AM showing my age lol, ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
