THE INNOCENTS ABROAD 2.0
UNLESS Self can pull a Herb Brooks and win the WUG with a bunch of lesser players, the decision to participate in WUG seems increasingly foolish.
KU and Self have been exposed as almost completely isolated in American college basketball. KU has been forced to represent America with Florida Atlantic and SMU players, apparently because neither top Nike, nor top Adidas programs will help out.
It is a disgrace.
And making SMU and FAU players wear Kansas Jersies is an insult to both their schools and ours. If this were KU against the world, then play only KU players and win or lose as KU. Otherwise, put USA on the Jersies.
There would be some honor in representing USA with a skeleton crew of outmanned players. It would at least expose the disloyalty and cowardice of other programs too selfish to commit to the USA cause.
But playing in Kansas Jersies with two injury replacement players from lesser programs just makes KU look pathetically isolated.
Someone did not think this through.
And in 21st Century international sport, when you don’t think it through, you get used, abused and beaten badly.
I fear for this roster of fine young men that just want to play some basketball and represent their country. They appear caught up in something much bigger, and ill-conceived than they, or many of us, at the beginning grasped.
And since Self was apparently at the helm of this decision, it’s on him.
Good luck, coach.
With no credible center, several of your best players out, injuries taking others, and a cold shoulder from other top American players and programs, you’re going to need it.
Welcome to The Innocents Abroad 2.0.
And they’re wearing Kansas on their Jersies.
REHawk last edited by
@jaybate-1.0 Maybe I’m just thinking as a Negative Ned about the outcome of our involvement with these Games, but I can’t envision any positives other than Jayhawk opportunity to get in 30 days of unlimited practice and playing time this summer. What with the ineligible foreign players on our roster, coupled with injuries to Greene and Graham, the stars are not aligned to portend for heavenly blessings. Those two factors plus our entering the competition with no dominant big man. Perhaps in the course of next season these 30 days will pay huge dividends. Otherwise, hopes appear futile for any but negative publicity and impact. Could this June/July squad defeat Wichita State in a rematch?
HighEliteMajor last edited by HighEliteMajor
At first, this seemed like a cool thing. I posted yesterday that my opinion has changed. If we could go back an change things, maybe we don’t do this. The main reason is that it excludes two very important pieces to our 2015-16 puzzle, Svi and Diallo. Obviously, missing Greene and Graham has put a major damper on the festivities, too. We have 4 rotation players not even participating. And our transfer (Coleby) is not part of it, either. That all stinks. But like many other things in life, you have to make commitments not knowing how the landscape can change in between. It has just changed for the negative. But that doesn’t mean it will end negatively.
You never know how things work out. I wouldn’t bet against us having a pretty good run in this tourney. The best part? – KU hoops in June and July.
drgnslayr last edited by
I was a Negative Ned a while back and didn’t receive a lot of backing on it. My concerns were injuries and that we might get smoked in WUG and then we make our program look bad. The idea we could recruit off of this was a total, 100% flop. We had a good recruiting year despite having to play in WUG.
Yes, we are isolated. And I hope that gets through to the troops and they develop a chip. I think we spoil our players with so much love and attention they don’t realize that the rest of the world could care less about Jayhawks and them. That is something they need to know to develop a chip.
We already lost Graham, and I hope he can fully recover without a bleep on the screen for the upcoming season… but while I’m busy being Negative Ned I will state that I feel sure he will slow down a step this season and has the possibility of recurrence.
I just hope we don’t lose anyone else.
And I hope the benefit of our little extra season pays off this coming year. I think we have a good chance of seeing that, especially since D1 has to run on a faster clock… a clock slower than what we will experience at WUG.
Crimsonorblue22 last edited by
Grouchy group here! KU is excited to go! A great experience for our team. We may be short a few, but this can only help. I’m glad Dg can go, I hear his injury is not that bad, so I’m going w/that. I’m just thrilled to see them play this summer.
Crimsonorblue22 last edited by
Feed for radio tonight. Hope it works!
VailHawk last edited by
Interesting hearing both sides as always. Two things:
Had anyone ever heard of the “world university games” before we were awarded the chance? I don’t think anyone will notice it’s even happening let alone putting any sort of negative on KU. I think sports center may mention it later in the broadcast if not at the very end.
I’m so jazzed to watch KU hoops in the summer!!! @Jesse-Newell are you running your in game blog from Sprint? And in S. Korea?
Statmachine last edited by Statmachine
There will be live stats and updates here
JayHawkFanToo last edited by JayHawkFanToo
I could not disagree with you more. You are presenting your opinions as facts when they are really not.
First, KU was asked to do this well over a year ago and no one could have predicted at the time, a) who would sign with KU and b ) that two rotation players would be injured. If we get different recruits signed up, i.e. Americans, and If Green and Graham are not injured this discussion does not even take place and we wold be praising Coach Self. Like I said, one year ago we KU had dozen player targeted and no one knew who KU would end up getting. If KU gets two other top players in lieu of Diallo and Coleby, then Manning and Self are not even part of the official 12 players.
As some posters have mentioned, they would prefer that players from other conference teams not be invited so they not become familiar with the KU playbook. I personally believe that most top players take a lighter class load during the season and take summer classes to catch up and stay eligible; the WUG requires a 28 day “full time commitment” that most top players cannot make and that their school probably would not allow them to attend and risk injury in the first place. Let’s face it, the WUG is a fairly unknown tournament in this country and it is not even close in exposure to the Pan-American games and the U-20 tournaments that actually take a National team…Northern Iowa was asked to represent the US a couple of tournaments ago and they decided this time around to ask a established team to do it because of the increasing difficulty of assembling a “National” team for this event…there is really very little interest for it.
There is ZERO evidence that KU invited any other player from a different program and was denied. There is ZERO evidence that Nike or Adidas had any involvement in the selection of players, none, nada, zip, zilch. From the very beginning and before Coach Self even knew who would or would not be available, there was talk that outside/former players could be invited. The only information I have appears to indicate that the two outside players were suggested by their coaches, both with heavy KU connections. Again, there is no evidence that other players were considered and KU was turned down; to imply that:
"KU and Self have been exposed as almost completely isolated in American college basketball. KU has been forced to represent America with Florida Atlantic and SMU players, apparently because neither top Nike, nor top Adidas programs will help out."
…is the equivalent of yelling fire in a crowded theater when someone turns his cell phone on.
In the big scheme of things, the WUG is the equivalent of the KU-Team Canada game this eveni9ng, where only half of the arena is available and there is not TV broadcast. Yes, it is a game that involves KU but has little of no relevance in the basketball world. Most KU fans will be curious on how the game goes but likely more interested on how the team is progressing rather than the final result. Look at team Canada, they could have assembled a top team from the over 300 Canadian players that play college here many for Elite programs and at least a dozen with NBA potential; Pangos, Trey Liles, Kyle Wiltjer, Ejim, Heslip, Cherry,Ennis are some of the players right of the top of my head…26 Canadian players played in the past NCAA tournament…and yet none of those is part of the team. Guess what…they are all trying out for the much better known and more prestigious Pan-American Tournament team.
The main advantage of KU representing the US in this tournament is not the final outcome, which no one, other than die hard fans, will remember in another month, but the extra time they get to practice together with "ALL’ the players, including those that are not eligible for the WUG. How many basketball fans, even counting the die hard fans in this forum, knew that Northern Iowa represented the US in the past? I would venture to say that maybe a couple at most; I certainly did not remember it, and most of us became aware after KU was asked to to the same.
You are really making a mountain out of a “bate” hill. No malice intended and it is just my opinion…and you are welcome to prove me wrong.
wrwlumpy last edited by wrwlumpy
For me, the best outcome would to be to make it out of our Pod and play and receive any medal. All of these guys living together in Gwangju for two week playing 11 games will be a big plus. Frank, Perry, Wayne, Landon and Mick can hone what they already know while Bragg and Old Vick get a quick jump start 4 months before any other Freshmen in the country. It’s all good. With every game televised on ESPN to countries that love Basketball year round, Adidas, and KU will get a tremendous name recognition boost. Bill Self will be praised on every telecast while Frank, Perry and Wayne get some early pub for Conference and All-American honors. It’s all good AND we get to watch KU Basketball in June and July! p.s. Jaybate, I love the Mark Twain reference.
Let me address your response as follows.
“You are presenting your opinions as facts when they are really not.”
I, jaybate 1.0, hereby openly and without the least bit of reservation do solemnly assert that everything I posted was opining.
It follows then that your assertion is an unintentionally errant characterization of my post, AND at the same time an apparently straw argument without merit.
Further, any and all parts of your response premised on the above assertion are patently fallacious and require no further comment.
P.S.: IMHO, Self should have seen this coming. I did. And I don’t get paid the big bucks to see such things coming. It did not take a rocket scientist a year ago to see that KU would not likely have the returning talent needed to be a serious threat to win the WUG, or perhaps even make a good showing, when whomever accepted this mission for KU, made the judgment. And as the year unfolded, and the rising tide of recruiting asymmetry became more and more apparent, it was clear even mid to late last season that a substantial infusion of talent was going to be needed to be a serious threat to win the WUG, or a considerable infusion of talent of the kind found at elite programs was going to be needed to make even a good showing, yet such talent at the 5 and 3 was not added. And a reasonable person could have foreseen that adding such talent would be improbable, because such talent is these days apparently injury risk averse even in the regular season, and would have very little reason take such risks in an off season competition. Further, much of that talent is Nike leaning and so without positing any explanations of why, the recent tendency of expectation should have been that elite programs in the Nike system was probably NOT going to supply such talent, and as the recruiting season wound down it became increasingly apparent that the adidas system would not, or could not, either. And there appears to have been no reasonable assumption made starting a year ago that at least one of our rotation players would become sufficiently injured, as has happened early most every season in recent years, and that a player at least as good, and hopefully better than our rotation players would need to be added in order to make even a good showing in the WUG. No such contingency player was apparently lined up for such a contingency. Bottom line, a reasonable person, especially one with the insider knowledge that Self possesses about recruiting, and relations with other elite programs, a year ago, would apparently have foreseen this situation emerging, and as the ensuing year unfolded, would apparently likely have foreseen the situation looming as increasingly problematic and acute. I am thus left with the impression that Self perhaps just wanted the extra month of practice and never took the campaign all that seriously, either initially, or as the year unfolded. To view it in the most positive light, he was getting an extra month of practice and giving his team a cultural field trip of sorts. Nothing terribly wrong with this, but, again, why bring any non-KU players at all on a field trip? Alternatively, if you want to play to win, then follow a reasonable approach, or get out of the way for some team that wants to play to win and has the means to do so. Just my opinion.
KUSTEVE last edited by
@jaybate-1.0 OMG…how good do you think these WUG teams are? Just wait until we beat a few of these scrubs by 60 points- I think we’ll dominate. I am genuinely disappointed in your outlook for this year, and couldn’t disagree more with your assessment. I will be awaiting your epiphany.
Texas Hawk 10 last edited by
@jaybate-1.0 I think you’re assumptions on this one are dead wrong. Nic Moore is the reigning POY in a conference that has produced 2 of the last 3 national champs, not exactly weak competition.
The shoe co. conspiracy holds zero weight here because SMU is a Nike school and no prominent Adidas school was volunteering players either. This was Bill Self asking the coaches he knew if they had anyone available. Larry Brown and Joe Dooley have pretty strong ties to Bill Self and both apparently were aware a situation like this could happen before a few weeks ago.
HawksWin last edited by HawksWin
JB, I hope & pray you are dead wrong - because what Self said really really bothered me. He plans to let ALL players play - same amount of time!? Is that to throw the opponents off or lowering our expectations? I get that all players want to represent the country, so he will allow ALL to play? Does Self think he won’t get the W, so he’s going to settle instead for ALL to experience? Not sure what to think of that remark, but sure didn’t like what he said - and now your article. Do agree it should read USA, not Kansas on the jersey. Here’s hoping for the best.
jaybate 1.0 last edited by jaybate 1.0
@ jaybate 1.0 and @Texas-Hawk-10 flatly oppose conspiracy theory.
@jaybate 1.0 and @Texas-Hawk-10 advocate petro shoeco oligopoly.
@Texas-Hawk-10 and @jaybate 1.0 agree.
THAT WAS EASY!
BeddieKU23 last edited by
I think the 10 scholarship players will split minutes pretty equally unless the game is close. If someone like Frank Mason is taking over the game like he did last night then it could change by the fly. I’m sure Manning & Self will see just a few minutes here and there to give guys a break.
Self is smart to try and balance the minutes, minimize fatigue, risk of injury, and give guys a chance to build chemistry with each other in different lineups.
wrwlumpy last edited by
@jaybate-1.0 I thought for sure that the word “Whippersnapper” was about to be used.
drgnslayr last edited by drgnslayr
I’m glad all of our guys get a chance to play minutes in this. We always criticize Self for not playing his bench enough to season them. Well… he is the perfect opportunity to season our bench and not have it go against us in D1.
Plus… there is no way we need to push any of our guys to the point of attrition. We need to keep our troops healthy for the coming year!
Concerning ShoeCos influence on the college game… sign me up for believing they play a major influence and will do so until something horrible gets exposed and Congress has to step in… or the DOJ.
Lulufulu last edited by
@jaybate-1.0 I appreciate your approach to this issue Jaybate but I think it might be a tad pessimistic. Coach Self is a tenacious competitor. Why would he take on a project to represent our country if he did not think he had at least a fair chance to win it, or at least come from behind, sneak up on some unsuspecting teams and win a medal? ( Im referencing the '12 team)
I do agree about the Jersies though. Why put KU on the front when we have two players from two other teams on the roster? Shouldnt it say USA anyways? I mean, Canada for example, those guys didnt have the name of their current or former schools on their shirts.
I like seeing KU out there, I really do, but I think we should be representing the USA not KU. Even though the SMU and FAU players have indirect ties to KU, it is kind of insulting to their respective schools in a way. However, the injuries creating the open spots on KU’s roster werent exactly planned for or foreseen as possible.
Lulufulu last edited by